GMO Papaya/Solo Papayas in Florida

[Vernmented]

I was searching through the forum and other places and I couldn't find any conclusive answers. This is what I could find from some quick research.

'Rainbow' and 'SunUp' are GMO papaya cultivars developed by the University of Hawaii and were released to Hawaiian growers.

The pollen drift from these cultivars infected a large percentage of other papayas grown on some of the islands. A lot of these were these Solo types.

You can test test papaya for GMO crossing with different gene testing. This goes into it briefly. http://www.hawaiiseed.org/local-issues/papaya/

Right now I am growing Improved Solo Sunrise, Linda, Hawaiian Solo Sunset and Waimanalo X-77 (Kamia) from alohaseed.com. The seeds were shipped from California but I have no idea where they were sourced from. I have purchased seed from them a couple times and I highly recommend them.

What are the chances that these papaya are non-GMO?

Does anyone know of a lab that does gene testing? Would it be way out of a decent price range? It might be worth it to develop my own verified non gmo papaya seedlings. There aren't any other papaya plants around my area.

I have heard that the Solo types are harder to grow in Florida but it can be done. What are the main issues with these in Florida? Maybe grafting to a different rootstock would help. So far everything is growing great here but they are still small and haven't flowered yet. They are also planted in highly modified soil in a root pruning raised bed with a compost pit in the middle so soil fertility and drainage won't be an issue.

[pineislander]

Josh, what specifically is the problem with a papaya which has been genetically modified against ringspot virus?

As I understand that the virus resistance was done by splicing part of the virus into the plant cell, very close to the same process the virus does when it infects the growing plant, and nearly the same way we get immunized. The plant doesn't have a toxin inserted, isn't resistant to certain chemicals, but is very resistant to the virus.

You can read about the development:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papaya_ringspot_virus

http://www.apsnet.org/publications/apsnetfeatures/Pages/papayaringspot.aspx

[bsbullie]

Agreed, not all GMO is bad.  I am sure a number of people would love to have the opportunity to purchase and grow the GMO papaya from Hawaii.

[fruitlovers]

I was searching through the forum and other places and I couldn't find any conclusive answers. This is what I could find from some quick research.

'Rainbow' and 'SunUp' are GMO papaya cultivars developed by the University of Hawaii and were released to Hawaiian growers.

The pollen drift from these cultivars infected a large percentage of other papayas grown on some of the islands. A lot of these were these Solo types.

You can test test papaya for GMO crossing with different gene testing. This goes into it briefly. http://www.hawaiiseed.org/local-issues/papaya/

Right now I am growing Improved Solo Sunrise, Linda, Hawaiian Solo Sunset and Waimanalo X-77 (Kamia) from alohaseed.com. The seeds were shipped from California but I have no idea where they were sourced from. I have purchased seed from them a couple times and I highly recommend them.

What are the chances that these papaya are non-GMO?

Does anyone know of a lab that does gene testing? Would it be way out of a decent price range? It might be worth it to develop my own verified non gmo papaya seedlings. There aren't any other papaya plants around my area.

I have heard that the Solo types are harder to grow in Florida but it can be done. What are the main issues with these in Florida? Maybe grafting to a different rootstock would help. So far everything is growing great here but they are still small and haven't flowered yet. They are also planted in highly modified soil in a root pruning raised bed with a compost pit in the middle so soil fertility and drainage won't be an issue.

The only GMO papaya grown now is Rainbow, the other one was dropped. You can get GMO free seed if it is from a field that is segregated from GMO fields. There are a very few organic certified growers and they have isolated fields. The reason solos don't do well on continental USA is due to prolonged cold spells. In such places they don't sweeten up properly. If you are in extreme south Florida this may not be an issue, except during occasion arctic blast years.

[Vernmented]

I posted this same thing on the Hawaii Tropical Fruit Growers Facebook page and got some interesting feedback. According to a few posters the pollen drift is only 11 feet and the main problem in Hawaii was unknowingly planting out the GM seeds. There should be relatively cheap genetic marker testing. In Hawaii it is only $3 but I would think that TREC's plant lab would be able to do it here.

I would rather not have the GMO plants here. I don't think it is necessary for my situation and I am very isolated. That being said, I planted these thinking there was a chance they were "contaminated" and was going to eat them up either way. My main gripe with GMO is the abuse of herbicides and the corporate juggernauts embedded in politics.

I am excited to try these varieties here. Most dooryard papayas I have run across here haven't been great. These varieties aren't super rare but I think most people just plant out what they get from a plant raffle table or some store bought Maradol or whatever else they sell. TR Hovey is garbage and Red Lady is decent but still a little funky.

I wonder if a different rootstock would push these along better in the winter time.

Hopefully I will have a SW Florida grown 4 "solo type" side by side papaya tasting to share on here.

[fruitlovers]

I posted this same thing on the Hawaii Tropical Fruit Growers Facebook page and got some interesting feedback. According to a few posters the pollen drift is only 11 feet and the main problem in Hawaii was unknowingly planting out the GM seeds. There should be relatively cheap genetic marker testing. In Hawaii it is only $3 but I would think that TREC's plant lab would be able to do it here.

I would rather not have the GMO plants here. I don't think it is necessary for my situation and I am very isolated. That being said, I planted these thinking there was a chance they were "contaminated" and was going to eat them up either way. My main gripe with GMO is the abuse of herbicides and the corporate juggernauts embedded in politics.

I am excited to try these varieties here. Most dooryard papayas I have run across here haven't been great. These varieties aren't super rare but I think most people just plant out what they get from a plant raffle table or some store bought Maradol or whatever else they sell. TR Hovey is garbage and Red Lady is decent but still a little funky.

I wonder if a different rootstock would push these along better in the winter time.

Hopefully I will have a SW Florida grown 4 "solo type" side by side papaya tasting to share on here.

Don't know where you got the number 11 feet for pollen drift? But i'm pretty sure that is wrong. I suppose it could be that low on a day with absolutely no trade winds. But the trade winds blow here most of the time. For organic certification i know you have to be isolated by at least 1/4 mile from any commercial papaya operation.

[Mark in Texas]

My main gripe with GMO is the abuse of herbicides and the corporate juggernauts embedded in politics.

Huh!  Well my main gripe is not ignorance but folks that know so much that just aint true.  GMO is no more linked to "bad" than old hippies who are known not to take baths for weeks.

There's a lot of politics in the non GMO, "natural and organic" racket which combines lawyering, marketing, and "next trends" shysters ready to jump on the sucker bets bandwagon and make a quick buck.

Read 'em and weep....that is if you seek the truth beginning with "The top five lies about biotech (GMO) crops".

http://reason.com/archives/2013/02/22/the-top-five-lies-about-biotech-crops

http://time.com/4338702/gmo-human-health-safety-genetically-modified-crops/

http://www.southernchestercountyweeklies.com/article/SC/20130620/LIFE01/130629978

[greenman62]

there are lots of articles sying GMO can be harmful
truth is we need long term studies
and its not just what GMO does directly
its also what indirect consequences.

We may just create some superbug that eats everything, reproduces en-masse
and is almost impossible to kill.
http://americannutritionassociation.org/newsletter/gmo-warnings

THE CREATION OF SUPERBUGS AND SUPERWEEDS
http://www.gmoinside.org/another-strike-gmos-creation-superbugs-superweeds/


I would agree with the OP.
The main problem is no regulations on large companies.
and if they do something wrong, they might get a small fine.

But even when used responsibly, like with papaya in Hawaii
Yes, it can be argued it helped save an industry while resistant varieties were developed
but, now its everywhere, even though they tried to control it.

and whats the future path ?
large scale monocultures are already destroying soils and making water toxic
giving us substandard food with no minerals.
1 pest can come in and multiply by the millions, seeing thousands of acres of food.

We need a better answer.
Permaculture, small scale farming,  buying food at farmers markets
and growing a percent of your own should be part of the answer.
less chemicals,  less water use less toxins, healthier food.

yeah theres a lot of politics in GMO
its coming from large corps that feel threatened.
and they have the $ to fight back
so excuse me if i dont cry for them.

[pineislander]

]
Don't know where you got the number 11 feet for pollen drift? But i'm pretty sure that is wrong. I suppose it could be that low on a day with absolutely no trade winds. But the trade winds blow here most of the time. For organic certification i know you have to be isolated by at least 1/4 mile from any commercial papaya operation.

That is pretty close to the 3.8 meters mentioned in the research below (pg. 7). That paper mentioned that commercial producers use only hermaphrodite papaya trees which are mainly self-pollinating and had low rates of cross pollination , but not perfect. Higher rates of cross pollination from Rainbow GMO trees was seen on female non-GMO plants. I know how to visually tell the difference between male, female and hermaphrodite trees but don't know how the commercial folks accomplish a 100% field count, would like to know.

 https://naldc.nal.usda.gov/download/56327/PDF

[Vernmented]

]
Don't know where you got the number 11 feet for pollen drift? But i'm pretty sure that is wrong. I suppose it could be that low on a day with absolutely no trade winds. But the trade winds blow here most of the time. For organic certification i know you have to be isolated by at least 1/4 mile from any commercial papaya operation.

That is pretty close to the 3.8 meters mentioned in the research below (pg. 7). That paper mentioned that commercial producers use only hermaphrodite papaya trees which are mainly self-pollinating and had low rates of cross pollination , but not perfect. Higher rates of cross pollination from Rainbow GMO trees was seen on female non-GMO plants. I know how to visually tell the difference between male, female and hermaphrodite trees but don't know how the commercial folks accomplish a 100% field count, would like to know.

 https://naldc.nal.usda.gov/download/56327/PDF

This paper is more in line with Oscar's point.

 https://www.ctahr.hawaii.edu/oc/freepubs/pdf/BIO-1.pdf

I have seen commercial growers plant three plant in one hole and then cut out two when they can be sexed.

[Vernmented]

My main gripe with GMO is the abuse of herbicides and the corporate juggernauts embedded in politics.

Huh!  Well my main gripe is not ignorance but folks that know so much that just aint true.  GMO is no more linked to "bad" than old hippies who are known not to take baths for weeks.

There's a lot of politics in the non GMO, "natural and organic" racket which combines lawyering, marketing, and "next trends" shysters ready to jump on the sucker bets bandwagon and make a quick buck.

Read 'em and weep....that is if you seek the truth beginning with "The top five lies about biotech (GMO) crops".

http://reason.com/archives/2013/02/22/the-top-five-lies-about-biotech-crops

http://time.com/4338702/gmo-human-health-safety-genetically-modified-crops/

http://www.southernchestercountyweeklies.com/article/SC/20130620/LIFE01/130629978

I'm not sure what this has to do with the point I was making. It is bad on both sides. The politician/corporate biotech revolving door is pretty self evident. There is plenty of information out there about glyphosate in blood, urine, breast milk, water ways, rain.......

The original post is explaining how I planted seeds that may be unknowingly crossed with GMO cultivars. I am curious about finding out if they have GMO genetics and if there is a relatively inexpensive test to find out. I was planning on consuming and possibly selling these fruit either way and knew about the cross pollination in the Hawaiian cultivars. It isn't a deal breaker for me. I would rather grow non GMO papaya in my own yard and I would think that would be acceptable but it seems to anger the biotech Gestapo. I swear these people are worse than self righteous vegans pushing their 'truths' on people like it is any of their business. How dare I prefer non GMO papaya. Mark even made some stupid comment in the other thread about not feeding the papayas gluten so they wont get sick. You are just coming off like some judgmental prick to me. I'll make sure you approve the plants I am planting the next time around Your Majesty. Maybe you are still gulping down margarine and eating egg whites for your health because the infallible science gods said so.

[Tropicdude]

Pollen drift by wind is one thing,   and what of the bees?   

back in the day,  some varieties had male and female only trees,   only a few males trees were used on large plantations,   so obviously  pollen was finding a way to get beyond 11 feet.   

isolation recommendations are a minimum of 400 meters,  for pollen, 
 http://www.ogtr.gov.au/internet/ogtr/publishing.nsf/content/papaya-3/] [url]http://www.ogtr.gov.au/internet/ogtr/publishing.nsf/content/papaya-3/$FILE/biologypapaya08.pdf[/url]

[fruitlovers]

]
Don't know where you got the number 11 feet for pollen drift? But i'm pretty sure that is wrong. I suppose it could be that low on a day with absolutely no trade winds. But the trade winds blow here most of the time. For organic certification i know you have to be isolated by at least 1/4 mile from any commercial papaya operation.

That is pretty close to the 3.8 meters mentioned in the research below (pg. 7). That paper mentioned that commercial producers use only hermaphrodite papaya trees which are mainly self-pollinating and had low rates of cross pollination , but not perfect. Higher rates of cross pollination from Rainbow GMO trees was seen on female non-GMO plants. I know how to visually tell the difference between male, female and hermaphrodite trees but don't know how the commercial folks accomplish a 100% field count, would like to know.

 https://naldc.nal.usda.gov/download/56327/PDF

If the distance you give were correct, then almost no fields would be contaminated and they would be very easy to keep from getting contaminated. But the opposite is true, almost all fields during tests were contaminated.

[savemejebus]

so does Solo not grow well in south florida? i'd like to plant a few  now that I'm a convert.

[Vernmented]

I'm about to find out. I have heard that they didn't do great but people fruit them. Give them a go. alohaseed.com worked great for me but there are plenty of sources for seed.

[fruitlovers]

so does Solo not grow well in south florida? i'd like to plant a few  now that I'm a convert.

Should grow and fruit fine in S. Florida. The question is whether they will develop full sweetness? My guess is that they will most years, except during exceptionally cold winters.

[Vernmented]

Snapped these pics today. I'll use this thread to hopefully document the fruiting and differences. The papaya cultivars are all solo types. Linda, Improved Solo Sunrise, Solo Sunset and Waimanalo X-77 (Kamia) which is supposed to be somewhat dwarf. No flowers yet. These will all be either herms or females which are both fine for me for dooryard production. I figure if I get viable seeds from a female plant I will most likely have a cross between named solo cultivars so that could be interesting as well. I have never crossed papayas before but that seems like that is how it would work.

[fruitlovers]

They look good and healthy!
Curious, what is that in center of second photo that looks like giant turtle shell?

[Vernmented]

They look good and healthy!
Curious, what is that in center of second photo that looks like giant turtle shell?

Just a dirty old piece of cardboard. The middle is a compost pit that goes down about 5 feet. I had to bust through the muck layer into the free draining sand below. It is mostly banana stalks and corm from my old banana area I replaced and moved to this spot.

[Vernmented]

Some picture updates from today. Linda has been the most vigorous so far. All papayas have fruitset except for Improved Solo Sunrise which is flowering. Imporved Solo Sunrise and Solo Sunset both blew over in Hurricane Irma and I had to prop them back up. There is a double rootstock Inga edulis with an Inga vera approach graft about 4" from the Linda papaya. I'll try to snap some pictures with a ruler and the fruit soon. The bananas are Kandrian (which also blew over in the hurricane so I cut it off), the full size Gros Michel and Hua Moa. Everything is utra high density but it will shoot straight up and the raised bed "banana/papaya circle" has a massive amount of fertility and aeration in it.

[Future]

Josh, what specifically is the problem with a papaya which has been genetically modified against ringspot virus?

As I understand that the virus resistance was done by splicing part of the virus into the plant cell, very close to the same process the virus does when it infects the growing plant, and nearly the same way we get immunized. The plant doesn't have a toxin inserted, isn't resistant to certain chemicals, but is very resistant to the virus.

You can read about the development:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papaya_ringspot_virus

http://www.apsnet.org/publications/apsnetfeatures/Pages/papayaringspot.aspx

If a problem ever surfaces, there is no recall button.

[pineislander]

Josh, what specifically is the problem with a papaya which has been genetically modified against ringspot virus?

As I understand that the virus resistance was done by splicing part of the virus into the plant cell, very close to the same process the virus does when it infects the growing plant, and nearly the same way we get immunized. The plant doesn't have a toxin inserted, isn't resistant to certain chemicals, but is very resistant to the virus.

You can read about the development:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papaya_ringspot_virus

http://www.apsnet.org/publications/apsnetfeatures/Pages/papayaringspot.aspx

If a problem ever surfaces, there is no recall button.

It has been 20 years and no problems with these papayas
. I suppose after a couple more generations most people will accept the advancement of technology. 

[Future]

Josh, what specifically is the problem with a papaya which has been genetically modified against ringspot virus?

As I understand that the virus resistance was done by splicing part of the virus into the plant cell, very close to the same process the virus does when it infects the growing plant, and nearly the same way we get immunized. The plant doesn't have a toxin inserted, isn't resistant to certain chemicals, but is very resistant to the virus.

You can read about the development:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papaya_ringspot_virus

http://www.apsnet.org/publications/apsnetfeatures/Pages/papayaringspot.aspx

If a problem ever surfaces, there is no recall button.

It has been 20 years and no problems with these papayas
. I suppose after a couple more generations most people will accept the advancement of technology.

This exemplifies people underestimating long term impacts.  Plastic was invented 110 years ago.  Scientists recently discovered most creatures at the bottom of the ocean have microscopic plastic in their bodies.

Buy bottled water?  Most have microscopic plastic.

What about natural sea salt?  You guessed right.

What impact is this having on health?  We might need another hundred years to figure it out.  But just like GMOs, plastic can't be recalled out of an entire ocean.

I am all for technology.  But let's kid ourselves that we know the full impact.

[Mark in Texas]

The internet, mass media and folk's hunger for drama has created a nation of hypochondriacs and neurotics...as they chicken neck over their devices screaming out "what if's" all the while quaffing a tainted cup of Starbucks coffee lovingly embraced in plastic. 

[Vernmented]

Updates from this morning





Hawaiian Solo Sunset


Improved Solo Sunrise


Waimanalo X-77 (Kamia)


Linda


Not bad for going through a hurricane and a freeze. The Improved Solo Sunrise is behind the others but it also took the most damage from hurricane Irma.