Author Topic: Cherilata taste test.  (Read 15153 times)

simon_grow

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6729
  • USA, San Diego, CA, Zone 10a
    • View Profile
Re: Cherilata taste test.
« Reply #50 on: August 14, 2020, 01:58:57 PM »
I just want to post a quick update on my John Painter Cherilata since several members asked about it. These are very young grafts from this year and the size of the leaves is very dependent on the vigor of the rootstock.

Here are a few pictures of the leaves. The smaller leaves are from a low vigor rootstock and look more narrow. The larger leaves are grafts onto a vigorous rootstock.
 



Simon

simon_grow

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6729
  • USA, San Diego, CA, Zone 10a
    • View Profile
Re: Cherilata taste test.
« Reply #51 on: August 14, 2020, 02:03:30 PM »
The leaves are the same shape but the larger leaves are obviously much larger. Here is a picture of the flower.


And a fruit pollinated with mixed cherimoya pollen


Here is a John Painter red Cherilata flower/fruit that was pollinated with Dr. White Pollen

Simon

dwfl

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 612
    • Bokeelia
    • View Profile
Re: Cherilata taste test.
« Reply #52 on: August 14, 2020, 02:16:22 PM »
Nice Simon! Good luck

JF

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6652
  • North OC California Zone 10B/America Tropical 13A
    • 90631/97000
    • View Profile
Re: Cherilata taste test.
« Reply #53 on: August 14, 2020, 07:25:55 PM »
Great update Simon. Look at my Cherilata leave are almost identical





Garden_Harley_FL

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 43
    • Bradenton, Florida 9b
    • View Profile
    • Garden FL
Re: Cherilata taste test.
« Reply #54 on: September 28, 2020, 09:02:03 AM »
I wanted to give an update on my Cherilata











Harley
Garden Instagram: http://instagram.com/garden_florida
Youtube Garden Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6i8EQzQEZ8twcQptkD360w

I heart Annonaceae

johnb51

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4782
    • USA Deerfield Beach, FL Zone 11a
    • View Profile
Re: Cherilata taste test.
« Reply #55 on: September 28, 2020, 09:15:45 AM »
Your tree grew a lot, Harley!
John

Mike T

  • Zone 12a
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9012
  • Cairns,Nth Qld, Australia
    • Zone 12a
    • View Profile
Re: Cherilata taste test.
« Reply #56 on: September 28, 2020, 09:27:06 AM »


Cross that with this and we could be getting some eye popping fruit.

Mike T

  • Zone 12a
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9012
  • Cairns,Nth Qld, Australia
    • Zone 12a
    • View Profile
Re: Cherilata taste test.
« Reply #57 on: September 28, 2020, 09:44:54 AM »
https://www.horticulture.com.au/globalassets/laserfiche/assets/project-reports/cu11000/cu11000-final-report-complete-2.pdf
In the breeding for new reds such as the pictured MRS 649-1 at Marroochy, PP atemoya was crossed with a red sugar apple/atemoya hybrid rather than red reticulatas on the grounds of taste. The breeding of new Annonas is quite advanced at this research station and have a look at the attached report. No cherilatas were bred at all as there was a strong commercial focus. Still they won't release all the new types.

Tropical Bay Area

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 270
    • San Jose area, zone 9b
    • View Profile
Re: Cherilata taste test.
« Reply #58 on: December 10, 2020, 08:46:01 PM »
Nice picture--- reminds me of my favorite temoylata, the 4--5: 'Priestley' atemoya  X 'Fairchild Purple' Annona reticulata.

Which cherimoya variety was the seed parent?
har what are alll the annona hybrids to your knowledge?
Cheers!

ben mango

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 955
    • View Profile
Re: Cherilata taste test.
« Reply #59 on: January 01, 2021, 02:06:51 PM »
those fruits look better than what i had the other day
« Last Edit: January 25, 2021, 09:50:25 PM by ben mango »

Bush2Beach

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2141
    • Santa Cruz, California Sunset Zone 17
    • View Profile
Re: Cherilata taste test.
« Reply #60 on: January 01, 2021, 05:34:21 PM »
I bet Har has stated multiple times. Forum search dat.
Nice picture--- reminds me of my favorite temoylata, the 4--5: 'Priestley' atemoya  X 'Fairchild Purple' Annona reticulata.

Which cherimoya variety was the seed parent?
har what are alll the annona hybrids to your knowledge?

Tropical Bay Area

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 270
    • San Jose area, zone 9b
    • View Profile
Re: Cherilata taste test.
« Reply #61 on: January 02, 2021, 11:19:47 PM »
I bet Har has stated multiple times. Forum search dat.
Nice picture--- reminds me of my favorite temoylata, the 4--5: 'Priestley' atemoya  X 'Fairchild Purple' Annona reticulata.

Which cherimoya variety was the seed parent?
har what are alll the annona hybrids to your knowledge?
Sorry I can’t find anything....
Cheers!

JoeP450

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 933
  • Mahaha Chinook
    • Palm City FL
    • View Profile
Re: Cherilata taste test.
« Reply #62 on: January 14, 2021, 06:33:04 PM »









Picked my first and only cherilata this year today, ripe off the tree, stem pulled right out. I haven’t had ever single atemoya, custard apple, cherimoya, or sugar apple, but of the ones I’ve eaten this is top notch. Seedy is the one draw back, but texture is firm to chewy, low grit, flavor has some tart and phenolic resin note, while mostly berry upfront. The flesh color beautiful. Seems since this is a reticulata x cherimoya a more apt name might be “berries n cream” vs cherilata .....but that’s up to the breeder...,,my hats off to your mr painter.


-joe

shot

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 967
    • usa fl bokeelia 10
    • View Profile
Re: Cherilata taste test.
« Reply #63 on: January 14, 2021, 07:21:24 PM »
Looks tasty!Usually low seed count did you hand pollinate?

kh0110

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1153
    • USA, Cerritos, CA 90703, Zone 10b
    • View Profile
Re: Cherilata taste test.
« Reply #64 on: January 14, 2021, 07:54:23 PM »
Looks delicious. From the cut up pix, seeds count looks Ok to me even with this small specimen. For me, it's the seed to flesh ratio that counts not the seeds count by itsef.
Also, cherilata is a type, not a name.

Congrats!!!

Note: Maybe the breeder, Shot, should now give it a name?
« Last Edit: January 14, 2021, 07:58:26 PM by kh0110 »
Thera

JoeP450

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 933
  • Mahaha Chinook
    • Palm City FL
    • View Profile
Re: Cherilata taste test.
« Reply #65 on: January 14, 2021, 08:53:24 PM »
Yes I did hand pollinate, I’m not sure which pollen actually hit though because it was whatever I had at the time between sugar apple, Fernandez reticulata, dream atemoya, or it’s own from other flowers on the tree. It’s still a young lanky tree so just getting the one fruit I am very happy to try looking forward to a hard pruning before spring to get some lateral branching going. I’m glad to have two trees in ground now, more flowers, more pollen to play around with crossing things this year. 

One thing I want to expound upon, is the “phenolic” flavor that the reticulata parent imparts. I first read about this from reading the Australian custard apple breeding report. It is generally that flavor that you can’t totally put your finger on but is present in reticulatas, and it’s mostly not good. I attached a screen shot below on this distinction. In the case of the cherilata it is like a how “resin” profile is to a mango. In some mangos you have this flavor almost like gasoline you get in a super julie or o-15, even super Alphonso that by itself would be nasty but when mixed in with sweet and some tartness it creates a pleasantly complex eating experience. Like tannin is to wine. In the cherilata I got that same experience.

I’m really excited because I’ve been collecting and planting a good amount of annonas last year in hopes that this season I’ll be able to run some interesting controlled crosses and this cherilata, has opened up new genetic avenues of flavor potential.




-Joe

Annona Breeding Project

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
    • Calusa County, FL
    • View Profile
    • annonabreedingproject.com
Re: Cherilata taste test.
« Reply #66 on: January 14, 2021, 09:06:12 PM »










We are proud to call John our mentor and our close friend. Through breeding this fruit and developing his experimental grove he has inspired a new generation of fruit breeders. Josh Starry is correct in saying that this cultivar will spread far and wide. It already has spread across the USA thanks to John's generosity. It truly is a world class fruit created by a world class human being. As our propagation side of the organization rolls out these trees, we're calling it 'Painter.'
Be fruitful always,
the Annona Breeding team
@annonabreedingproject
annonabreedingproject.com

Galatians522

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1824
    • Florida 9b
    • View Profile
Re: Cherilata taste test.
« Reply #67 on: January 14, 2021, 10:34:10 PM »










We are proud to call John our mentor and our close friend. Through breeding this fruit and developing his experimental grove he has inspired a new generation of fruit breeders. Josh Starry is correct in saying that this cultivar will spread far and wide. It already has spread across the USA thanks to John's generosity. It truly is a world class fruit created by a world class human being. As our propagation side of the organization rolls out these trees, we're calling it 'Painter.'
Be fruitful always,
the Annona Breeding team
@annonabreedingproject
annonabreedingproject.com

I had to do a double take when I looked at the pictures and realized that the trees were growing with their roots entirely submerged. They are obviously on pond apple rootstock. I will be very interested to hear if they have long term compatibility.

Orkine

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1270
    • Jupiter, FL, USA
    • View Profile
Re: Cherilata taste test.
« Reply #68 on: January 15, 2021, 05:37:57 PM »
I have one on a pond apple and it seems to do well on that root stock.  It is early yet, I only grafted it last year. 

The interesting thing is it has kept all its leaves so far.  Most other anonas in my yard are fully defoliated or hanging on to a couple of sorry looking leaves. 

It has been harsh fall and winter with may of what looked like successful atemoya grafts through most of last year, looking like dry twigs with not a leaf left on them.  I hope they come back next spring but it doubt it.

Galatians522

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1824
    • Florida 9b
    • View Profile
Re: Cherilata taste test.
« Reply #69 on: January 15, 2021, 06:14:55 PM »
I have one on a pond apple and it seems to do well on that root stock.  It is early yet, I only grafted it last year. 

The interesting thing is it has kept all its leaves so far.  Most other anonas in my yard are fully defoliated or hanging on to a couple of sorry looking leaves. 

It has been harsh fall and winter with may of what looked like successful atemoya grafts through most of last year, looking like dry twigs with not a leaf left on them.  I hope they come back next spring but it doubt it.

Thanks, that is really good to know. The info I got from Australia seems to indicate that incompatibility starts to show up after 4-5 years with Cherymoya. Maybe this will be a better match.

simon_grow

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6729
  • USA, San Diego, CA, Zone 10a
    • View Profile
Re: Cherilata taste test.
« Reply #70 on: January 22, 2021, 12:29:45 PM »










We are proud to call John our mentor and our close friend. Through breeding this fruit and developing his experimental grove he has inspired a new generation of fruit breeders. Josh Starry is correct in saying that this cultivar will spread far and wide. It already has spread across the USA thanks to John's generosity. It truly is a world class fruit created by a world class human being. As our propagation side of the organization rolls out these trees, we're calling it 'Painter.'
Be fruitful always,
the Annona Breeding team
@annonabreedingproject
annonabreedingproject.com

Yes, John has been very generous in spreading his selection around. For those of you in SoCal, I have been been calling it John Painters Red Cherilata.

Annona Breeding Project, I would love to see a thread in regards to what you are working on!

Simon

simon_grow

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6729
  • USA, San Diego, CA, Zone 10a
    • View Profile
Re: Cherilata taste test.
« Reply #71 on: January 22, 2021, 12:36:48 PM »
Anyone else in SoCal having luck with their John Painters Red Cherilata? I grafted the scions 10 months ago and they have grown 3-4 feet but most the fruit dropped off, not surprising for a new graft. I only have one very small fruit left hanging. This fruit is about ping pong ball sized and was pollinated with Dr White Cherimoya pollen.



Simon

ryanscion

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 79
    • San Diego, CA
    • View Profile
Re: Cherilata taste test.
« Reply #72 on: January 22, 2021, 03:23:34 PM »
Anyone else in SoCal having luck with their John Painters Red Cherilata? I grafted the scions 10 months ago and they have grown 3-4 feet but most the fruit dropped off, not surprising for a new graft. I only have one very small fruit left hanging. This fruit is about ping pong ball sized and was pollinated with Dr White Cherimoya pollen.



Simon

Hi Simon, can you share more about your rootstock selections for the JP Red Cherilata? Above you mentioned less and more vigorous rootstocks and I'm curious to read if you grafted onto only cherimoyas or if you used other annonas as well.

Also, I'd love some scions if they're available for trade or purchase later this year. I'm in San Diego also (National City).


simon_grow

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6729
  • USA, San Diego, CA, Zone 10a
    • View Profile
Re: Cherilata taste test.
« Reply #73 on: January 22, 2021, 06:57:01 PM »
Ryanscion, Brad may have some scions available but you’ll have to check with him. He grafted a few trees to JP Red Cherilata at his orchard last year.

The growth is great on vigorous Cherimoya rootstock such as Dr White and Pierce. I specifically mention vigorous rootstock because seeds from a particular variety may grow differently.

For example, I have Pierce fruit that were extremely over pollinated so the fruit had tons of smaller seeds in the flesh and these seeds all sprouted fine but seemed to grow less vigorously compared to larger seeds from Pierce fruit that weren’t over pollinated.

Also, seeds from a particular fruit, let’s say add White for example, are sexually produced so seeds from the same fruit may grow at different rates.

I would recommend you plant a bunch of different seeds and just use the most vigorous seedlings for rootstocks.

Simon

ben mango

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 955
    • View Profile
Re: Cherilata taste test.
« Reply #74 on: January 25, 2021, 09:45:44 PM »
This is the one I’m finding on Maui that I suspect is a cherilata.