Author Topic: Which tropical fruits have enough time to ripen or can ripe after winter?  (Read 4701 times)

Delvi83

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Few days ago I spoke in an Italian forum about the differences for a plant between survive and ripe a fruit....
What do I mean?

In Tropical or Subtropical regions this is not a problem....temperatures are high throughout the year. But in other parts, for instance the warmest part of Europe, the average Temp can be lower than 13° for 4-5 months.

Until few months ago I considered only the temperature that a plant could take without die....and i believed that it was the only "problem" for a subtropical plant in a mediterranean climate.

So a subtropical plant, to ripe the fruits in a frost-free zone, MUST:

- Ripen the fruits before November (so Flowering must occur not too late and fruits must ripe in 4-5 months)
- Fruits must not rot or fall if temperature drops under 10°C


Obviously there are difference between area...French Riviera (or Italian Riviera) and Sicily are two frost-free zone, but the max temperature can be different, especially during Spring or late Fall, but in general i noticed that:


- MANGO : Flowers in May and maturing in Sept-Nov (and so it has enough time to ripe)
- GUAVA : Flowers in early summer and maturing the fruit in October
- LITCHI : Flowers in Spring and maturing in August
- ANNONA : Flower in summer, ripening from end of October to December (do you know if it can ripe fruits also with low temperatures?)
- WHITE ZAPOTE : Flowers more times, mutaration in early fall and fruits from other flowers can resist the low winter temperature and maturate in the next spring
- AVOCADO : It depends on cultivars...some can ripe the fruits in early spring and fruits don't rot with low Winter temperatures
- LACUMA : I read about a plant that fruits in Spain...since the fruit takes one year for ripen, I guess it can withstand low winter temperatures
- Coldest-HARDY BANANA : Sometimes they can block the maturation of fruits in Winter and start it again in Spring without problems


- TAMARIND: Few minutes ago I read in the Tamarind Topic that it fails in maturating fruits in Algarve because it flowers too late and in Winter the fruit rot


What about other subtropical fruits??


- BLACK ZAPOTE??
- JACKFRUITS?
- JUBUTICABA?
- CARAMBOLA?


Which are your experiences??

Thanks

fyliu

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Sorry, can you give examples of fruits that won't do this?
I'm drawing a blank.
Sounds like what you're asking is what species will sabotage its own survival by setting fruit and not letting them to ripen.

Delvi83

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Sorry for my English...what I'd like to know is:

Which are the subtropical fruit trees that can ripen their fruits in a warm, frost-free, mediteranean climate where average temperatures can be 50°F for months ?


For example, in Algarve, Portugal, one of the warmest place in Europe, Tamarind survives, it's not damaged by winter, but it flowers late in summer and the fruits are not yet ready when winter comes, so they rot before ripening.

Instead many Avocado cultivars can maintain the fruits in a cool winter without damage them

Citrus are another class of plants that have fruits that overcome winter with fruits that are not damaged by cold and can be taken during winter or spring.

Mango's fruits are ready before temperatures become too cold....


In other words, I'd like to know which trees can be similar to "Citrus or Avocado", which are similar to "Mango" and which are similar to "Tamarind" ........in South Florida temperatures are high also in Winter (Wikipedia gives the average of 15°C min and 25° max), but may be in some part of Ca you could have a winter with (8°C min and 15° max)....


I know about the fruits I said before (see above), but for other I don't know....so I'd like to know your experiences... :)


 

siafu

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Few days ago I spoke in an Italian forum about the differences for a plant between survive and ripe a fruit....
What do I mean?

In Tropical or Subtropical regions this is not a problem....temperatures are high throughout the year. But in other parts, for instance the warmest part of Europe, the average Temp can be lower than 13° for 4-5 months.

Until few months ago I considered only the temperature that a plant could take without die....and i believed that it was the only "problem" for a subtropical plant in a mediterranean climate.

So a subtropical plant, to ripe the fruits in a frost-free zone, MUST:

- Ripen the fruits before November (so Flowering must occur not too late and fruits must ripe in 4-5 months)
- Fruits must not rot or fall if temperature drops under 10°C

- LUCUMA : I read about a plant that fruits in Spain...since the fruit takes one year for ripen, I guess it can withstand low winter temperatures


What about other subtropical fruits??

- BLACK ZAPOTE??
- JACKFRUITS?
- JUBUTICABA?
- CARAMBOLA?

Which are your experiences??

Thanks

Lucuma is very easy and shows no stress over winter.
Green sapote also does well and does fine over winter.
Black sapote does well for me. The fruits ripen in mid spring.
Carambola does not grow well outside for me. It defoliates and takes a long time to recover. Sometimes, it still manages to produce a late crop. In more protected conditions it does rather well and produces two crops: summer and around Christmas.
Jaboticaba fruits needs just a few weeks from bloom to maturity. It even does well in Northern Portugal.
There's still little experience with Jackfruit here. So far it looks promising. I have two in a mosquito netting covered structure that fruited for the first time this summer. The fruits did not develop properly. The seeds were malformed, but the rag was sweet and edible.
Mamey grows very slowly. It is much more cold sensitive than green sapote.
Achachairu does well outside here, but grows slowly (in poor soil and heavy shade).
Sapodilla seedlings do well outside. Winter usually scorches some of the tender top leaves of the plant.
It recovers over the warmer months and gets bigger over time.
Canistel does well outside in good spots and can mature fruit. Mine tends to defoliate, which allows sun to scorch the fruits.
Ilama (grafted onto cherimoya) does well outside. It spends winter leafless but wakes up and blooms when cherimoya is also
coming out of dormancy.
Biribá (A. mucosa) does well but my plants set fruits too late and they mature over winter and are very bland.
 
edit: corrected some typos
« Last Edit: October 18, 2015, 04:21:46 AM by siafu »
Sérgio Duarte
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--Vale sempre a pena, quando a alma não é pequena!

Mike T

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It all relates fairly precisely to what spot you are in.

barath

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I'm interested in the same question, especially when grafting on hardy rootstocks is added to the mix.  For example, papaya grows fast enough that it will fruit in one year around here, but then will often die in the winter due to cold, wet roots.  (I put my papaya plant outside a couple of months ago and want to see how it does this winter.)  If it were possible to graft C. papaya on Babaco or other Mountain Papayas, maybe it could make it through the winter with fruit hanging, to then ripen in spring?

Waterfall

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This is an interesting thread for those of us in marginal climates. My pandora passionfruit set fruit just before winter so they were all on the vine right through the colder months and started to drop in spring, I am yet to taste a really sweet one but the ones still on the vine now are much better than the ones which dropped early.

My red tamarillos also ripened over winter, they were sweet enough but my orange is flowering now (spring) and I'm hoping they are much sweeter than the red.

I had babaco but mulched it after the first crop, pretty average tasting fruit.

That's about it for my more tropical stuff, of course all my temperate fruits grow and taste great!

Delvi83

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Siafu....thanks for the info you share with us :) !!!

What do you think abouth A. cherimoya ? Does it mature the fruit in winter in the coldest parts of Algarve?

fyliu

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Cherimoya should hold well over winter. Cherimoya season here (Southern California) is September to April. I get frost on my windshield once in a year but I think the fruits are protected by the leaf canopy so don't get frost.

siafu

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Siafu....thanks for the info you share with us :) !!!

What do you think abouth A. cherimoya ? Does it mature the fruit in winter in the coldest parts of Algarve?

There's little difference from place to place in terms of averages. The limiting factor is extreme minimums.
There's this place called Aljezur, where it can get incredibly cold (-7C), well below the limit for cherimoya.
Elsewhere, the fruits will be ready by mid to late Autumn and fine quality.






Sérgio Duarte
Algarve, Portugal

--Vale sempre a pena, quando a alma não é pequena!

Delvi83

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Re: Which tropical fruits have enough time to ripen or can ripe after winter?
« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2015, 03:38:53 PM »
Thanks...do you think A. cherimoya could fruit in French Riviera? For sure it will withstand the winter, the problem is that spring is not very warm and flowering could happen to late (mid summer i think)...does it mature fruit even if temperatures are 15°C?

siafu

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Re: Which tropical fruits have enough time to ripen or can ripe after winter?
« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2015, 03:56:17 PM »
Thanks...do you think A. cherimoya could fruit in French Riviera? For sure it will withstand the winter, the problem is that spring is not very warm and flowering could happen to late (mid summer i think)...does it mature fruit even if temperatures are 15°C?

 Sorry. I don't know. 
Sérgio Duarte
Algarve, Portugal

--Vale sempre a pena, quando a alma não é pequena!

DurianLover

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Re: Which tropical fruits have enough time to ripen or can ripe after winter?
« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2015, 11:01:29 PM »
Thanks...do you think A. cherimoya could fruit in French Riviera? For sure it will withstand the winter, the problem is that spring is not very warm and flowering could happen to late (mid summer i think)...does it mature fruit even if temperatures are 15°C?

This article has answer on timing. Only grown at the very bottom coast of Spain. If it would be that easy, we'll probably find them commercially growing all way up to Barcelona. I think you'll have exclude French Riviera from from the plans.
http://mykitcheninspain.blogspot.com/2013/12/cherimoya-exotic-fruit-for-holidays.html

Also jackfruit isn't really subtropical. It is heavily leaning towards tropical climate, barely touching subtropics. It needs a lot of heat to develop. High mean annual temperature in other words. Even deep in tropics they stop producing at fairly low elevations.  They will grow but won't produce or produce underdeveloped / inferior fruit. There seems to be quite a few mutants or exceptions however. I think you should forget it in Italy (outside, unprotected).

msk0072

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Re: Which tropical fruits have enough time to ripen or can ripe after winter?
« Reply #13 on: October 19, 2015, 01:43:27 AM »
Bananas grow well here and they ripe the fruits in october - november. Some trees do not ripen the fruits in that time but they can hold the fruits until spring and mature them by that time. I think it has to do with the planting season of the trees.
Mike

Delvi83

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Re: Which tropical fruits have enough time to ripen or can ripe after winter?
« Reply #14 on: October 19, 2015, 04:30:41 PM »
Thanks.....very interesting things !!!!
Anyway the only way to know is to try :).....in French Riviera many subtropical plants can give results....if a plant can resist until 32F it can survive there....if it can ripens fruits is another story :)