Brazilian export rules

[Tomas]

Hello,

What rules are in effect in Brazil regarding exporting small quantities of seed and plant material? I am a little confused because I get different answers depending on who I ask in Brazil. I have received seeds from Brazil with proper custom declaration, stating exactly what seeds and quantity and I get these package without problem from either Brazil or U.S. Customs. I don't know Portuguese so it's a little hard for me to search for an official Brazilian website.

Tomas

[fruitlovers]

Hello,

What rules are in effect in Brazil regarding exporting small quantities of seed and plant material? I am a little confused because I get different answers depending on who I ask in Brazil. I have received seeds from Brazil with proper custom declaration, stating exactly what seeds and quantity and I get these package without problem from either Brazil or U.S. Customs. I don't know Portuguese so it's a little hard for me to search for an official Brazilian website.

Tomas

I can't point you to an official website, but from a nurseryman who sells by internet he told me it is all officially prohibited. I also tried to mail some seeds from inside the country and was not allowed to do so. Some people continue to do it but it's all either "under the table" or with some bribery of officials. Brazil has tons of rules, most of which are not obeyed.
Oscar

[FlyingFoxFruits]

Don't import seeds from Brazil, it could cost you!

Who knows what scary stuff you could introduce!

Follow the law.

[Berto]

Anikulapo,
I agree with you!  Please be careful and follow the law!  We already have enough pests and diseases affecting our trees in beautiful Florida!
Buy seeds from local growers. For example,  Noel has some fantastic annona seeds for sale.  I will have some rare seeds for sale in the future.

[Felipe]

Berto, seeds of which species?

[Berto]

Felipe,
Most of my seedlings are small.  It is a medium to long term project!

Things are changing rapidly in Brasil.  The current president, Dilma Vana Rousseff,  has sacked a bunch of ministers that were involved with corruption.  Therefore, things are getting better. I have seen a great number of improvements in the last few years.
Furthermore, in my opinion, we should be very thankful for the seeds, plants, and fruit varieties that Brasil has provided to the world. One of the reason, Brasil is more cautious about letting seeds and plants out of Brasil is because some unscrupulous and greedy people have patented plant material native to Brasil and later on demanded payment of royalties from Brasilians that wanted to use it.
It takes the same energy and the same amount of time to point out the positive of any thing and any circunstance. Unfortunately, some people prefer to focus on the negative side of things. I prefer to focus on the positive!

[fruitlovers]

Felipe,
Most of my seedlings are small.  It is a medium to long term project!

Things are changing rapidly in Brasil.  The current president, Dilma Vana Rousseff,  has sacked a bunch of ministers that were involved with corruption.  Therefore, things are getting better. I have seen a great number of improvements in the last few years.
Furthermore, in my opinion, we should be very thankful for the seeds, plants, and fruit varieties that Brasil has provided to the world. One of the reason, Brasil is more cautious about letting seeds and plants out of Brasil is because some unscrupulous and greedy people have patented plant material native to Brasil and later on demanded payment of royalties from Brasilians that wanted to use it.
It takes the same energy and the same amount of time to point out the positive of any thing and any circunstance. Unfortunately, some people prefer to focus on the negative side of things. I prefer to focus on the positive!

Hi Berto, i totally agree with you. I hope you realize that i was only commenting on situation of importing seeds from Brazil, and not anything about the country as a whole. I was 7 weeks in Brazil in 2009 and have only high praises for the country and its people. Had a very nice time there and recommend it to all. I think the incident you are referring to is the one where a Japanese company tried to patent the name cupuacu? Then there was a very strong reaction from Brazilian government. This happens with all governments. Look for example what happened in USA after someone tries to carry explosives in their shoes. We go from very lack security to over security and paranoia.
Brazil will be hosting next Olympics and also next FIFA world soccer cup and is making very big strides in infra structure for tourism already for those events.
Oscar

[murahilin]

Hi Berto, i totally agree with you. I hope you realize that i was only commenting on situation of importing seeds from Brazil, and not anything about the country as a whole. I was 7 weeks in Brazil in 2009 and have only high praises for the country and its people. Had a very nice time there and recommend it to all. I think the incident you are referring to is the one where a Japanese company tried to patent the name cupuacu? Then there was a very strong reaction from Brazilian government. This happens with all governments. Look for example what happened in USA after someone tries to carry explosives in their shoes. We go from very lack security to over security and paranoia.
Brazil will be hosting next Olympics and also next FIFA world soccer cup and is making very big strides in infra structure for tourism already for those events.
Oscar

Here is a link I found about the cupuacu situation between Brazil and Japan in case anyone is interested: http://www.amazonlink.org/biopiracy/2004_03_01.htm

[Guanabanus]

I lived in Amazonas, Brazil for ten years.  Later I used to bring seeds back when I traveled to Brazil, with a seed import permit here (of my employwer then)--- I don't dare try now, since the laws passed in 2001.   One can be charged with BioPiracy, have one's personal effects confiscated, be jailed, fined, and shamed in the national news media for being a damn foreigner unjustly exploring the national patrimony of genetic resources of Brasil.  If you ask an indian or county person how they use a plant, you must pay the Brazilian federal government for the information before leaving the county, "to benefit all sectors of the population."

If you offically apply, fill out many forms, and swear up and down that the material will be for research purposes only, you may be granted permission to bring out some seeds or plants--- knowing that if, in the future you decide to sell some, you will have to negotiate for permission and payment of royalties to the federal government of Brazil.

I try to remind Brazilians that no one in Brazil pays royalties to the government of China for commercial production of citrus and soy, or Ethiopia for Coffee, Indonesia for Jak, Malaysia for Carambola and Jambo, India and SE Asia for Mangos, etc.   But most like their double-standard and get all fired up about thieving foreigners.  But when they come here they have a right to take seeds back.

[Berto]

Guanabanus,
So you are the one that started this whole mess....hahahahahahahahaha  Just kidding!  If you lived 10 years in Amazonas, you are familiar with our sense of humor.
I can understand your frustration.  There was a change in the way things were done!
Like Oscar implied, it seems like the Brasilian government is "over reacting" the same way the US federal government is "over reacting" as far as airport security.
Just for the sake of trying to understand what may have generated this controversy.  The following article (sorry it is in Portuguese) shows a list of Brasilian plants and products that were patented outside Brasil.
http://arquivosbrasilbio.blogspot.com/2008/06/plantas-e-produtos-brasileiro.html

By the way, Brasilian do not "have a right to take seeds back" .  Brasilians may import seeds into the country if they follow a similar rule that is being  applied here in the United States for seed importation.  Anyone found importing seeds illegally into the country will be penalised by the law, including fines and confiscation of those seeds.

[Tomas]

Hi Berto,

I don't fully interstand this. What is actually patented? Is it the invented name of a species or is it a certain medical/food use of the plant or extraction method or something else?

Tomas

[Berto]

Tomas,
According to the article, fruit names, the actual fruit, extracts, chemical components, and so on.

[fruitlovers]

There are certain legal protocols that need to be followed when using either plant species, products from those plants, or indigenous knowledge. Because Brazil has such a wealth of diversity of plants lots of pharamaceutical and other companies were going in there and grabbing whatever they wanted without apparently following proper protocol.
BTW, i noticed at recent Breaadfruit Festival here in Hawaii speaker mentioned that cultivars of breadfruit that are being mass produced through tissue cultrue are done so only after obtaining MOU (Memorandum of Understanding) from country of origin. They explained that  this is why the program is taking so long, because permission can sometime take years to obtain.  Also that once permission is obtained part of the proceeds of the sale of plants goes to country where plant originated. So for example, in sale of Ma'afala breadfruit cultivar part of proceeds would go to Samoa.
What is an MOU: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memorandum_of_understanding
Oscar

[murahilin]

I think there are some misunderstandings about trademark and patent laws.

I do not think what has been done regarding the Brazilian fruits and stuff is necessarily a bad thing. It really depends on the situation.

A trademark is done on a name and does not offer the same rights as a patent. A common name for something cannot usually be trademarked and that is likely why the cupuacu trademark in Japan did not work.

A patent is given for a period of time and is not indefinite. I am not sure how long it is for in other countries but in the US it's for 20 years.

A patent will not be given for a random tree someone just pulls out of the jungle. There have to have created or come up with a use for something they isolated themselves. If it was discovered before in Brazil or anywhere else to have that use it cannot be patented. That is very important to remember. These researchers around the world are not patenting things they stole from Brazil, instead they are coming up with new uses and products for things that may have originated in Brazil but the same use was not created or known before in Brazil.

I think if the researcher, no matter where they live, should be able to profit from something they worked to develop. Who cares where the tree originated.

[fruitlovers]

I think there are some misunderstandings about trademark and patent laws.

A patent will not be given for a random tree someone just pulls out of the jungle. There have to have created or come up with a use for something they isolated themselves. If it was discovered before in Brazil or anywhere else to have that use it cannot be patented. That is very important to remember. These researchers around the world are not patenting things they stole from Brazil, instead they are coming up with new uses and products for things that may have originated in Brazil but the same use was not created or known before in Brazil.

I think what you say is true in theory, buy not in reality. Things get patented that don't fit your criteria.  Think for example about the Sweetheart lychee. Someone brings in plants already existing in Australia, loses their tags, invents a new name and gets that new name, Sweetheart, patented. Now you're supposed to pay them a royalty for something someone else did all the breeding work for ? And who is to prove who really did the original work or where the plant originated? It's not so easy. Similarly companies take existing technologies or tribal wisdom and pretend that they have "discovered" it themselves in their research labs. And all they've really done is to test the plant to see if it really does what the natives told them already it would certainly do. I'm not really big on plant patenting, but just wanted to point out situation is not as cut and dry as you make it seem.
Oscar

[murahilin]

I think there are some misunderstandings about trademark and patent laws.

A patent will not be given for a random tree someone just pulls out of the jungle. There have to have created or come up with a use for something they isolated themselves. If it was discovered before in Brazil or anywhere else to have that use it cannot be patented. That is very important to remember. These researchers around the world are not patenting things they stole from Brazil, instead they are coming up with new uses and products for things that may have originated in Brazil but the same use was not created or known before in Brazil.

I think what you say is true in theory, buy not in reality. Things get patented that don't fit your criteria.  Think for example about the Sweetheart lychee. Someone brings in plants already existing in Australia, loses their tags, invents a new name and gets that new name, Sweetheart, patented. Now you're supposed to pay them a royalty for something someone else did all the breeding work for ? And who is to prove who really did the original work or where the plant originated? It's not so easy. Similarly companies take existing technologies or tribal wisdom and pretend that they have "discovered" it themselves in their research labs. And all they've really done is to test the plant to see if it really does what the natives told them already it would certainly do. I'm not really big on plant patenting, but just wanted to point out situation is not as cut and dry as you make it seem.
Oscar

But the sweetheart wasn't patented. It was only given a trademark which if challenged seems like it may not hold up in court for a few reasons I outlined in a previous post.

Regarding companies stealing existing technology and tribal wisdom, that can be challenged too if there was any records of it being used for those purposes. Many companies have likely stolen ideas and stuff in that manner but if challenged in court with the right information the patent would likely not be held up for lack of novelty.

Many people like to look at patenting as a bad thing but it is necessary for innovation. People and companies would be wary to create or develop something new because the second they release it, it would be open to the world to copy. At least with patent protection they have a certain time that the rights to it is exclusive before it is released to the world for the greater good.

[fruitlovers]

Whether trademarked or patented the point is the same: it's possible for patents and trademarks to be issued in cases where they should not have been obtained. Once a person or company has a patent or trademark  it is up to you to challenge them and spend lots of $$$$$$ in legal fees showing that it's not legitimate, otherwise it will stand as is. Also there is the complication of debating these issues in international cases as different countries have different laws.
Again i think you are right in theory but not in practice: the original intent of issuing patents may be a good one, to encourage companies to research and create worthwhile new products. But in actual fact companies only have to make a slight change to a product or a plant to be able to patent it. This is one of the reasons that genetic modification is so popular with big companies (think Monsanto) they can make very small genetic modifications and patent just about anything. Also there is so much money involved that large biotechnology companies can bend the laws to suit their own maximized profit needs. They don't need to prove in any reasonable way that the changes they have made are any real improvement. In fact in many cases their changes turn out to be for the worse: a health risk for the general populace.
Oscar

[murahilin]

Whether trademarked or patented the point is the same: it's possible for patents and trademarks to be issued in cases where they should not have been obtained. Once a person or company has a patent or trademark  it is up to you to challenge them and spend lots of $$$$$$ in legal fees showing that it's not legitimate, otherwise it will stand as is. Also there is the complication of debating these issues in international cases as different countries have different laws.
Again i think you are right in theory but not in practice: the original intent of issuing patents may be a good one, to encourage companies to research and create worthwhile new products. But in actual fact companies only have to make a slight change to a product or a plant to be able to patent it. This is one of the reasons that genetic modification is so popular with big companies (think Monsanto) they can make very small genetic modifications and patent just about anything. Also there is so much money involved that large biotechnology companies can bend the laws to suit their own maximized profit needs. They don't need to prove in any reasonable way that the changes they have made are any real improvement. In fact in many cases their changes turn out to be for the worse: a health risk for the general populace.
Oscar

I agree. The system isn't exactly as it should be. I am not sure if there is a cheap or easy way to challenge a patent. That is something I would have to look into.

I am very much against Monsanto and what they do and they should not be allowed to get away with it.

For those that are unaware, Monsanto will patent a plant such as a corn plant that has a specific gene they inserted. Farmer's are only allowed to buy authorized seed and cannot use the seed they grew from their own crop of Monsanto's patented crop. That itself is not bad, but the problem arises when Monsanto's GM crop pollinates neighboring non patented crops in adjacent fields and then the plants grown from those seeds have Monsanto's inserted gene. Monsanto will then sue the farmer who grew the seed just because it has the gene that was brought to it by pollen from the neighboring field. The farmer's do not have enough money for the legal battle and will likely have to end up just paying Monsanto for the right to use their seed. Monsanto should not be allowed to do that. Unfortunately, they have lots of money and lobbyists and fancy lawyers. Patrick posted a list of people affiliated with Monsanto in another post that have current US Gov positions.

For situations like with Monsanto, their definitely needs to be some sort of patent reform. The recent patent law changes did nothing to alleviate that problem though.

[Pancrazio]

That itself is not bad, but the problem arises when Monsanto's GM crop pollinates neighboring non patented crops in adjacent fields

I would also add the fact that, in the long run, this also steal from the people, the right to choose to eat something GMO or not. When all the crops will be contaminated what kind of sense the opposition of GMO will make?

[Guanabanus]

When I said Brazilians coming here have the right to take seeds and plants from here, I was talking about the country of exit.  The US does not prevent their leaving with these items.

Countries should be happy to be enriched by more genetic variety, provided the proper expects get to inspect for pests and diseases and weeds before the seeds or plants are allowed in.

There are now several species of fruit trees growing in Amazonas from seeds that I took or sent. 

I no longer do that either--- the last two intended recipients of seeds that I sent, properly declared, received official notifications stating that the packages had been confiscated and destroyed.

Many plant scientists who used to work with Brazilian scientists have learned to focus their talents elsewhere--- until the populist demagogue laws get replaced with soemthing more balanced.

[fruitlovers]

Most famous and also ridiculous case of Brazilian government over reaction to scientists doing work in the Brazilian Amazon was the case of dutch primatologist Marc GM Van Roosmalen. He was arrested in Brazil for sending monkey scat (yes monkey poop) out of the country without permission. Don't know how long he spent in prison but i know his trial went on for many years. BTW, Roosmalen won many prizes and is considered one of the top scientists in his field in the world. He also just happens? to have written 2 fabulous books on tropical fruits: A Guide to the Fruits of the Amazonian Rain Forest and Fruits of the Guianan Flora. The first used to be online, but has now disappeared. The second is available in book form. The original intent of these books was to document the fruits that different monkeys ate. But it just so turns out that most of those fruits are ofcourse edible by humans as well. A lot of the info there is not available anywhere else. Lots of line drawings of all the fruits. The online version had wonderful watercolor drawings painted by his wife. They both lived in the Amazon studying monkeys together for over 2 decades.
Here is Roosmalen's website:
http://www.marcvanroosmalen.org/aboutmarc.htm  I guess he's finally out of the clinker.
Oscar

[Berto]

Hey,
Don't you ever mess with monkey poop in Brasil.....hahahahahahahahahahah  I wish I could have a talk with the president (the president of the monkey poop association)ahahahahahahahah It is getting ridiculous! Way out of hand! 
Seriously, it looks like another case of big government overreacting over something mundane.

[murahilin]

His wikipedia article is interesting: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_van_Roosmalen

[TropicalFruitHunters]

I believe the moral to this story is to stay the hell out of Brazil.  Order what you want from here and if it arrives, you can thumb your nose at their establishment.

[fruitlovers]

I believe the moral to this story is to stay the hell out of Brazil.  Order what you want from here and if it arrives, you can thumb your nose at their establishment.

Oh sorry Jay, i can't agree at all with that! Brazil is a very beautiful country and with beautiful people. Also if you visit you will certainly eat a lot of wonderful fruits you've never tasted, and many you've never heard of! Worth visiting just for that! It's like saying stay the hell out of the USA because they will rough you up at the airport when you enter. And that is certainly true. But USA has lots of great things even if the airport experience leaves a LOT to be desired. Please don't throw the baby out with the bathwater! 
Oscar