New Zill mangoes -- The monoembryonic vs polyembryonic breakdown

[bsbullie]

I'm comprising a list of the newer zill [propagated] varieties and their parentage and mono/poly....got a lot of blanks for mono/poly determination. This is what I have so far.   I am trying to base these on physical inspection of seeds (a few...more than one).

Providence is NOT Kent x Gary.  It was not part of any breeding project.  It was a chance seedling that was on Walter's property and kept by Walter Zill for certain growth habits and fruit characteristics. 

I also wonder if all the parentage you have is correct.  I would not go by assumption or what a 3rd, 4th or 5th party says (I know Gary was not thrilled and denied providing detailed infornation about the varieties when he was approached about writing a book on his breeding project).

If you are going to make and post a sheet like this, you should make sure all of the facts are correct...just sayin and my 2 cents.

[simon_grow]

Rob, I’m glad we have you here to clarify things.

Warren, I know you already have Cotton Candy down as Polyembryonic but here’s a picture of the seed. This one has three separate sprouts.





Simon

[wslau]

I'm comprising a list of the newer zill [propagated] varieties and their parentage and mono/poly....got a lot of blanks for mono/poly determination. This is what I have so far.   I am trying to base these on physical inspection of seeds (a few...more than one).

Providence is NOT Kent x Gary.  It was not part of any breeding project.  It was a chance seedling that was on Walter's property and kept by Walter Zill for certain growth habits and fruit characteristics. 

I also wonder if all the parentage you have is correct.  I would not go by assumption or what a 3rd, 4th or 5th party says (I know Gary was not thrilled and denied providing detailed infornation about the varieties when he was approached about writing a book on his breeding project).

If you are going to make and post a sheet like this, you should make sure all of the facts are correct...just sayin and my 2 cents.

Rob...I fixed providence parentage already after your first post.
Very hard to get accurate info on everything with me not being close to Florida.
That's why I need you and others to review my excel file.  Some info came from Alex's website, which is always accurate.  The incorrect stuff most likely came from forum posts that I could not verify.
If anyone wants to help out, send me a PM and I will email the excel file to you.

[bsbullie]

In all places, its Edward, not Edwards.

The Providence says Kent x Gary on your sheet...you need to remove "x Gary"

I am also not sure ZINC was ever used as a pollinator.

Coco Cream should say Edward x Gary

Carla is C-12, a Zill 80.

There is opinion that many may have been pollinated by Gary but not all crosses are documented.

Crystal is I-29 and a Zill 80 seedling.

J-14 is a ZINC seedling.

[wslau]

In all places, its Edward, not Edwards.

The Providence says Kent x Gary on your sheet...you need to remove "x Gary"

I am also not sure ZINC was ever used as a pollinator.

Coco Cream should say Edward x Gary

Carla is C-12, a Zill 80.

There is opinion that many may have been pollinated by Gary but not all crosses are documented.

Crystal is I-29 and a Zill 80 seedling.

J-14 is a ZINC seedling.

Thanks rob....never even heard of crystal before.

The latest list:

[behlgarden]

Hmm. Coco Cream should say Edward x Gary

I thought that was Edgar. Iol

[Guanabanus]

A pair of parents can have more than one child--- you know that!

[bsbullie]

Amy, a Jakarta seedling...and I believe it is D-5 (trying to find/access my old notes).

[wslau]

Amy, a Jakarta seedling...and I believe it is D-5 (trying to find/access my old notes).

I've been looking for info on Amy for some time.
Any description of fruit and flavor?  Poly or mono?
Anybody have this tree other than dongeorgio? 

[bsbullie]

A few have it...me being one.  It was, after all, named after my wife, so...

Its a larger sized fruit, I would say on average between 1.25 pounds and 1.75 pounds.  I have seen some whoppers around 2 pounds.  Taste is very sweet,  complex  with a hint of that Jakarta flavor ala O-15 (but not the peppery spice in Jakarta). Eaten many iver the years but never looked to see if mono or poly.  Will ask some that have it fruiting to see if they know.

[Cookie Monster]

Hmm that sounds interesting. I like Jakarta. How big is your tree?

A few have it...me being one.  It was, after all, named after my wife, so...

Its a larger sized fruit, I would say on average between 1.25 pounds and 1.75 pounds.  I have seen some whoppers around 2 pounds.  Taste is very sweet,  complex  with a hint of that Jakarta flavor ala O-15 (but not the peppery spice in Jakarta). Eaten many iver the years but never looked to see if mono or poly.  Will ask some that have it fruiting to see if they know.

[wslau]

A few have it...me being one.  It was, after all, named after my wife, so...

Its a larger sized fruit, I would say on average between 1.25 pounds and 1.75 pounds.  I have seen some whoppers around 2 pounds.  Taste is very sweet,  complex  with a hint of that Jakarta flavor ala O-15 (but not the peppery spice in Jakarta). Eaten many iver the years but never looked to see if mono or poly.  Will ask some that have it fruiting to see if they know.

Thanks Rob....As with the latter varieties to be released....there is often some problem like production or disease resistance.   Do you know why Amy wasn't released?  Your description of the Jakarta flavor sounds pretty good, but I recall you don't particularly care for some resinous varieties.

[bsbullie]

I will also add that fruit is a little more round than a Jakarta and outside skin color is yelliw gold color.  This is not a great picture but all I had acess to at the moment (they are usually a tad fuller in shape).

[bsbullie]

A few have it...me being one.  It was, after all, named after my wife, so...

Its a larger sized fruit, I would say on average between 1.25 pounds and 1.75 pounds.  I have seen some whoppers around 2 pounds.  Taste is very sweet,  complex  with a hint of that Jakarta flavor ala O-15 (but not the peppery spice in Jakarta). Eaten many iver the years but never looked to see if mono or poly.  Will ask some that have it fruiting to see if they know.

Thanks Rob....As with the latter varieties to be released....there is often some problem like production or disease resistance.   Do you know why Amy wasn't released?  Your description of the Jakarta flavor sounds pretty good, but I recall you don't particularly care for some resinous varieties.

The thought is production is not great but from two large producing trees (top worked established trees), production is very good, especially for fruit size.  It does not have that strong jakarta resin/spice (neither does O-15).  Trees and fruit have been very clean.  My wife hates that strong resin flavor but the Amy is probably her favorite.

[TnTrobbie]

I liked "Amy" mango when I was fortunate to have one in 2015. The seed sprouted (single) and has been inground for about 10-11 months now.

[simon_grow]

Butter Cream appears to be Polyembryonic. This seed has three roots growing from three different segments of the same seed.




Someone also mentioned that Kathy is Polyembryonic if I remember correctly.

Simon

[simon_grow]

A second Butter Cream was Monoembryonic.

Simon

[Future]

My first K-3 = Kathy = Kryptonite seed opened is poly. Have a few more to check.

[MangoCountry]

Fruit Cocktail=mono
36-8=mono
Fruit Punch=mono
0-15=mono

[Future]

My first K-3 = Kathy = Kryptonite seed opened is poly. Have a few more to check.

4 in 5 were poly

[Oolie]

36-8=mono

I had read previously that it was poly, but both seeds were mono.

[MangoCountry]

All of my Buttercreams have been poly

[Future]

I found a Phoenix seed that appears to be poly.

[simon_grow]

Awesome and great info everyone. Hopefully the Phoenix will give you a good clone and maybe even a new promising seedling.

Simon

[Future]

Found an Orange Essence with 2 sprouts. Will see if it has two root systems.