Persea mites

[spaugh]

One of my reed trees has them.  What do you use to treat them?  Spinosid?

[AnnonaMangoLord45]

They generally tend to go away on their own, but I'd reccomend either spinosad or neem oil to get rid of them. They were a problem before but now the predator has been introduced it hasn't been a problem since

EDIT: It'll go away on its own

[RodneyS]

Insect frass hasn't worked for me

[shaneatwell]

My hass has it pretty bad right now.

[spaugh]

I really don't want it to spread to all my trees.  The leaves are dropping and the bark is going to get toasted.  The tree is young and not holding fruit.  Can I use something fed through the roots to treat the infested tree?   

Does neem oil and spinosad really work?  From doing google searches there doesn't seem to be much of a recommended treatment. 

[Mark in Texas]

One of my reed trees has them.  What do you use to treat them?  Spinosid?

Forbid 4F.  No, it's not labeled for avocados and "no" it is not a poison, more like a soap the way it works.  Works on ALL stages and families.  Is translaminar too so you only have to worry about treating one side of the leaf.

[AnnonaMangoLord45]

Oh ok sorry, just heard it from somewhere.

[spaugh]

Oh ok sorry, just heard it from somewhere.

No need to appologize.  I just was asking if they really work because finding a cure on the world wide web seems pretty difficult.  If neem or spinosad work I am happy to use them since I already own those. 

[spaugh]

One of my reed trees has them.  What do you use to treat them?  Spinosid?

Forbid 4F.  No, it's not labeled for avocados and "no" it is not a poison, more like a soap the way it works.  Works on ALL stages and families.  Is translaminar too so you only have to worry about treating one side of the leaf.

I will try and locate some of that Mark.  Thanks.  After doing some reading it sounds like 100F+ weather with low humidity kills them off.  So maybe the heateave we had will have slowed them down.  My guess is my one tree came from the nursery infested as none of the other trees are showing any signs.  Thats a bit frustrating.

[Mark in Texas]

I will try and locate some of that Mark.  Thanks.  After doing some reading it sounds like 100F+ weather with low humidity kills them off.  So maybe the heateave we had will have slowed them down.  My guess is my one tree came from the nursery infested as none of the other trees are showing any signs.  Thats a bit frustrating.

Actually those are the conditions that sets them on fire.  They HATE rain and low temps, love dry heat.  Best organic control is 3 strong blasts of water to the canopy.  That's how I keep them off my maters.  It destroys their webby nests and kicks everyone's ass to the ground, young and old.

Whatever you use make sure it's a miticide and I don't believe Spinosad or neem are. 

Good luck.....mites will maim and can kill a tree in no time and once their population begins.....it explodes.   Dormant oil with malathion will get them too if you don't mind using a poison, and malathion is a pretty benign one at that.

[Evildeadguy]

Horticultural Oil is safe to use and will help to get rid of them you should check into it

[nattyfroootz]

I would strongly reccomend using predatory mites.  I've used them on lots of outbreaks I've had on cannabis and have had amazing results. After about 1 or 2 weeks of the initial application I didn't have a trace of Spider Mites. Just did some research and there are quite a few California native species that would work well.  If you spray you will just need to continue spraying in the future, better to create an ecosystem that can support beneficial mites.

[alangr088]

My Reed tree had them pretty bad in the months of Feb/March. Leafs started falling...fast forward to today and it looks like its on steroids now. I would just occasionally spray it down with a pressured water hose. It went away by itself, at least I think they went away.   

[spaugh]

According to this UC document they say

http://ipm.ucanr.edu/PMG/r8400211.html

" winter temperatures slow growth of persea mite numbers. Mite densities are lowest around March and gradually increase through spring feeding on new leaf flush. Numbers generally peak in July and August. Persea mite populations are suppressed, and their numbers may decline rapidly, when the daily high temperature is 100°F or more on several consecutive days and humidity is low."

[spaugh]

I would strongly reccomend using predatory mites.  I've used them on lots of outbreaks I've had on cannabis and have had amazing results. After about 1 or 2 weeks of the initial application I didn't have a trace of Spider Mites. Just did some research and there are quite a few California native species that would work well.  If you spray you will just need to continue spraying in the future, better to create an ecosystem that can support beneficial mites.

Do you order the benefical bugs online?

[nattyfroootz]

I would strongly reccomend using predatory mites.  I've used them on lots of outbreaks I've had on cannabis and have had amazing results. After about 1 or 2 weeks of the initial application I didn't have a trace of Spider Mites. Just did some research and there are quite a few California native species that would work well.  If you spray you will just need to continue spraying in the future, better to create an ecosystem that can support beneficial mites.

Do you order the benefical bugs online?

Yep, ordered them from RinconVitova although I know there's lots of retailers in California right now catering to the cannabis market.  It's a little expensive but if you have the money and the patience it's well worth it.  You can also talk to their representatives on the phone and they are really helpful.  Only thing is, if you decide to go this route you can't spray anything before or after. The mites need the negative population in order to thrive and survive.

[Mark in Texas]

I would strongly reccomend using predatory mites.  I've used them on lots of outbreaks I've had on cannabis and have had amazing results. After about 1 or 2 weeks of the initial application I didn't have a trace of Spider Mites. Just did some research and there are quite a few California native species that would work well.  If you spray you will just need to continue spraying in the future, better to create an ecosystem that can support beneficial mites.

Is your pot garden outdoors or in?

Pred. mites are fine as long as they can be "contained" and have a food supply, which is exactly what you're trying to avoid.

[nattyfroootz]

I would strongly reccomend using predatory mites.  I've used them on lots of outbreaks I've had on cannabis and have had amazing results. After about 1 or 2 weeks of the initial application I didn't have a trace of Spider Mites. Just did some research and there are quite a few California native species that would work well.  If you spray you will just need to continue spraying in the future, better to create an ecosystem that can support beneficial mites.

Is your pot garden outdoors or in?

Pred. mites are fine as long as they can be "contained" and have a food supply, which is exactly what you're trying to avoid.

Outdoors my friend. Had lots of cowpeas planted as a cover crop which is a huge hot spot for mites.  I didn't notice any issues after they had devoured my spider mite problem.

[spaugh]

It looks like the bugs are spreading to the other trees.  But so far only the one tree is loosing a lot of leaves.  Ive got so many trees at this point I think Im just going to let nature run its course and see how it goes.  From most of the research Ive done they aren't going to make it for very long based on how far inland I am and our sunset zone being heavily influenced by the desert. 

The sunset zone maps for san diego county are pretty interesting.  So many different sub climates that depend on elevation, distance from the ocean, wind patterns, valleys, etc.

[spaugh]

The guys in zone 23 and 24 would be having better conditions for these mites to thrive it seems.  My place is on the edge of where they can survive.  Something I read said 20 miles inland or firther and they just get cooked conpletely.  We are about 16 miles inland but its in a really dry exposed area. 

[JF]

I have it badly on my West Indian Race Mantequilla avocado. Have sprayed and drenched with Neem oil and failed to eradicate. Any help from Carlos or Mark would be greatly appreciated. I will call Julie Fink and have her come up to my place to check it out.

[spaugh]

Getting input from Julie and relaying it would be great. 

I take it your tree is flushing heavily?  It seems like they only feed on soft new flush.  So people who fertilize less or water less may have less of an issue.  Kind of like leaf miners on citrus. 

[JF]

Getting input from Julie and relaying it would be great. 

I take it your tree is flushing heavily?  It seems like they only feed on soft new flush.  So people who fertilize less or water less may have less of an issue.  Kind of like leaf miners on citrus.

It is flushing heavy but you don't really see it until winter. I'm sure they are munching away.

[Mark in Texas]

The guys in zone 23 and 24 would be having better conditions for these mites to thrive it seems.  My place is on the edge of where they can survive.  Something I read said 20 miles inland or firther and they just get cooked conpletely.  We are about 16 miles inland but its in a really dry exposed area. 

Again, mites thrive under hot and dry conditions.  Trust me Spaugh, you let this paradigm of "borderline" climes dictate how and when you treat is gonna be the death blow to your trees.  They are being weakened as you watch.   Get the bastards now!  There will be plenty of eggs to go around in those leaves to let drop.  I can vouch for Forbid 4F.  Expensive as hell but it IS the silver bullet.  Translaminar, no way for the pests to build up an immunity, nails every cycle/stage of every mite family known.  Safety issue - I've used it on my citrus and our family is still standing.      (It will continue to be expensive until it goes generic).

Here's all the info you need.  https://entomology.ca.uky.edu/ef438

And.....don't you guys have farm agents and local entomologists you can call on for pest control?

[spaugh]

I would strongly reccomend using predatory mites.  I've used them on lots of outbreaks I've had on cannabis and have had amazing results. After about 1 or 2 weeks of the initial application I didn't have a trace of Spider Mites. Just did some research and there are quite a few California native species that would work well.  If you spray you will just need to continue spraying in the future, better to create an ecosystem that can support beneficial mites.

Do you order the benefical bugs online?

Yep, ordered them from RinconVitova although I know there's lots of retailers in California right now catering to the cannabis market.  It's a little expensive but if you have the money and the patience it's well worth it.  You can also talk to their representatives on the phone and they are really helpful.  Only thing is, if you decide to go this route you can't spray anything before or after. The mites need the negative population in order to thrive and survive.

I am leaning towards this as they say their predator mites will survive winters here.

[spaugh]

The guys in zone 23 and 24 would be having better conditions for these mites to thrive it seems.  My place is on the edge of where they can survive.  Something I read said 20 miles inland or firther and they just get cooked conpletely.  We are about 16 miles inland but its in a really dry exposed area. 

Again, mites thrive under hot and dry conditions.  Trust me Spaugh, you let this paradigm of "borderline" climes dictate how and when you treat is gonna be the death blow to your trees.  They are being weakened as you watch.   Get the bastards now!  There will be plenty of eggs to go around in those leaves to let drop.  I can vouch for Forbid 4F.  Expensive as hell but it IS the silver bullet.  Translaminar, no way for the pests to build up an immunity, nails every cycle/stage of every mite family known.  Safety issue - I've used it on my citrus and our family is still standing.      (It will continue to be expensive until it goes generic).

Here's all the info you need.  https://entomology.ca.uky.edu/ef438

And.....don't you guys have farm agents and local entomologists you can call on for pest control?

Im sure there are professionals that I could call.  But this is just a home garden with 24 avocado trees.  You have motivated me enough to go ahead and do something.  The forbid stuff is really spendy at 28$ an ounce.  How many trees can I treat with 1oz of forbid 4f? 

I have sent an email to the benefical mite people also and am waiting to hear back on cost for a few viles of good bugs.

[spaugh]

I spoke with a woman at RinconVitova and placed an order for 25,000 Neoseiulus californicus predator mites.  She said this is now the standard treatment and should get rid of them with 1 to 2 treatments.  They recommend around 250 per tree so that is only 4000 or so mites.  The cost for 5000 was 71$ and around 100$ for 25,000 so I am going with more than I need for a small extra cost.  She said the persea mites will infest grapes and stone fruits so I will be releasing some of them on those too as I will have enough to cover my entire growing area.  She was super friendly too, definitely easy to do business with.  Bugs will be here wednesday and released that night.

[nattyfroootz]

Awesome, stoked to hear how they work out for you. RinconVitova's customer service is awesome, definitely very worth the price.  I think application suggests using envelopes stapled to leaves so make sure you have envelopes!

[spaugh]

Cool, glad you mentioned envelopes.  I had to go to riteaid for batteries anyway and picked up 100.

[spaugh]

Its been a couple weeks since releasing the predator mites.  My trees have stopping yellowing/spotting and no more leaf drop. I was able to get a macro shot of a cluster of mites.  I cant tell if they are the good or the bad guys.

[Mark in Texas]

Its been a couple weeks since releasing the predator mites.  My trees have stopping yellowing/spotting and no more leaf drop. I was able to get a macro shot of a cluster of mites.  I cant tell if they are the good or the bad guys.

Bad. The only good mite is a dead mite.

Your assessment of success and recovery may be a bit premature IMO.  Once damage is done the leaf never fully recovers in function or looks.  You'll need to focus on how healthy the new flush of leaves is and for how long.

[nattyfroootz]

I'm not sure you understand predatory mites mark. These mites don't consume plant tissue like the persea mites he is having an issue with. 

[spaugh]

Its ok, everyone is free to take care of their plants how they choose.  I always do my homework and try to make informed decisions.  From the research I did the predator mites seem to be the best defense against persea mites and the comercial growers also like these for their groves.  It is too soon to tell how well they will work in the long run but I can already see a major slowdown if not halt in leaf yellow and drop.  My grove went from 1 tree having persea mites to a dozen trees in a few weeks time.  They are very quick to multiply and spread.  I used about 5X the recommended amount of predator mites on my trees and honestly it seems to already have stopped the spread to the other trees.  If these predators can survive winter and be able to keep the persea mites down to a low enough population that the trees are happy then it will be well worth it.  Not to mention I don't use any toxic pesticides or herbacides on my food crops up to this point and I like to keep it that way.

[Mark in Texas]

I'm not sure you understand predatory mites mark. These mites don't consume plant tissue like the persea mites he is having an issue with.

Of course

[spaugh]

Just wanted to update this thread.  My persea mites are completely gone.  They have been gone for many months.  It took 60 to 90 days to work completely. The trees have flushed many feet of new growth and no more new infestation.  I can not say for sure if it was the predators that cleared it up or if it was the really hot weather that killed the mites but they are gone.  I would be interested if JF or others still have mites on their new growth?

 The californicus mites can eat other pests and also organic matter and live through winter apparently so hopefully I will not need to re treat.

[Evildeadguy]

https://greenmethods.com/californicus/

good website to check out  if you haven't already seen it

[spaugh]

Just wanted to update this old thread.  I have had zero persea mites this year.  The predator mites seem to have completely eliminated them for the long run.  Its been over a year now with not a sign of them. 

Im wondering if others are still having them or if theirs cleared up on their own?

[Seanny]

My Reed had them in June but none on July flush.

[Dylan SB]

This year all of my trees are clean.  I that that early heatwave we had in July really knocked them down.  I do not have any predatory mites and have not sprayed the trees either this year, while last year they were a problem causing premature leaf drop.

[Jack, Nipomo]

Have had severe mites in the past (no poisons, hard nozzle spray, even a little oil) and big time leaf drop.  This year, with nothing done....no mites, no leaf drop.  108 degrees in July may have helped, but weather has been unusually warm all summer.  Probably cyclical for some reason.

[Mark in Texas]

The hotter and drier it is the more mites love it. 

[spaugh]

I think that is the case Mark up to a certain point at which it is too much heat.  The document I posted earlier in this thread has a lot of good information on persea mites and when they thrive and decline.  Winter cold kills them and also mid summer heat.  I think people outside of CA dont realize how hot and dry it gets here.  We havent had a drop of rain in over six months and it has exceeded 100F for several weeks this summer.  According to the literature several days of 100 degree weather with low humidity kills persea mites.  That may not be the case for spider mites or other mites you have there.  I dont think persea mites exist in TX or FL.  They were brought into CA from Mexico and havent spread to FL that Im aware of. 

[Jack, Nipomo]

Quote from University of California IPM for avocados: "Persea mite numbers are suppressed or may crash when the daily high temperature is 100°F or more on several consecutive days and humidity is low"

http://ipm.ucanr.edu/PMG/r8400211.html

[Mark in Texas]

Heck, I wouldn't know a persea from mamacia.  All I know is we had temps hit 107F, a summer high and my temps got up to 98-100F daily and my citrus trees got nailed by mites.  Here in Texas you can count on a mite flare up when it's hot and the RH is low and we had both including weeks without rain and very low RH.  What kind they are I don't know.

Forbid 4F is THE silver bullet for all stages of development and for all varieties or families.  1/8 - 1/4 tsp./gallon.   Took me 2 sprays to finally bring them under control.  If you can't safely and easily get mites under control with Forbid 4F, then it aint gonna happen.     BTW, it's not a poison and the mites can't build up a resistance to it.  Translaminar product too, a huge plus.

From the IPM ditty - Numbers generally peak in July and August. Persea mite populations are suppressed, and their numbers may decline rapidly, when the daily high temperature is 100°F or more on several consecutive days and humidity is low.

[Mark in Texas]

Its been a couple weeks since releasing the predator mites.  My trees have stopping yellowing/spotting and no more leaf drop. I was able to get a macro shot of a cluster of mites.  I cant tell if they are the good or the bad guys.

Yeah, mine were more reddish pink.  Probably the two spotted kind.

[spaugh]

Well, I had the persea mites completely gone for a couple years.  I got a new tree from the nursery and its covered in mites now and spread to a couple of surrounding trees.  Very annoying...

Anyway I ordered a small vial of Neoseiulus (Amblyseius) californicus mites again to fix the problem.  I put them out this morning...

[spaugh]

Heres the link if anyone needs to fix their problem.

https://www.naturesgoodguys.com/collections/spider-mite-control-1/products/neoseiulus-californicus-1000-adults-vial