Author Topic: Australian Desert Lime hardy to -11f?  (Read 2400 times)

PDXIan

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Australian Desert Lime hardy to -11f?
« on: May 01, 2020, 12:42:04 PM »
I just came across this article, and it says "The desert lime is the only pronounced xerophyte in the orange subfamily, is extremely drought tolerant and able to withstand extremes of hot (45ºC) and cold (-24ºC) temperatures (Swingle and Reece, 1967)"

http://www.ausbushfoods.com/bushfoodsonline/backissues/Issue16/Issue16_4.htm

That obviously seems insane, but it would explain why the "razzlequat" or Eremolemon grows outside in Southern Oregon at the house that used to belong to the Oregon Exotics Nursery owners. It's zone 8a, gets into the low teens regularly in winter.

https://citrusvariety.ucr.edu/citrus/eremolemon.html

SoCal2warm

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Re: Australian Desert Lime hardy to -11f?
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2020, 04:48:47 PM »
That obviously seems insane, but it would explain why the "razzlequat" or Eremolemon grows outside in Southern Oregon at the house that used to belong to the Oregon Exotics Nursery owners. It's zone 8a, gets into the low teens regularly in winter.
Um, I hate to burst your bubble, but I've talked to the owner of Cistus nursery, which is on a fairly big island right along the river in Portland, right outside the city, the outlying area and the island is pretty rural, and he's told me that a Satsuma mandarin has survived outside in the ground for him and fruited. This is in climate zone 8a, more likely 8b because his location is right in proximity to the river, on all sides.
(And it's also worth pointing out it probably gets a lot of shelter from the wind because the nursery is a virtual jungle, with densely planted shrubs and tall plants everywhere)

Jim VH (member in this forum) also observed that his Early St Ann Satsuma (had grown into a big size) survived unprotected this winter (the first time it was left unprotected) in his residential suburban neighborhood just north of Portland in Vancouver, WA, and probably would have fruited from the looks of it, but he chopped it down and took the tree out in March.

I know Southern Oregon can maybe get a very tiny bit colder in the winter, but the fact that a Razzlequat was able to survive there is not really a huge demonstration of its hardiness. (Also the coast of Southern Oregon is a whole different story, some people say they can grow Meyer lemons there)


I'm sure Razzlequat is hardier than Satsuma, of course.

This is entirely from memory, so this could be totally wrong, and I am definitely not certain of this, but I remember from prior research I did, looking at people's reports in other forums, I strongly came away with the impression that Australian Desert Lime probably had around the same level of cold hardiness as Satsuma mandarins, perhaps a little more or a little less. I also remember looking up the climate zone information about where Australian Desert lime in indigenous to (which is certainly no clear indication either, usually citrus species can survive a bit more cold than the part of the world they came from).
It's probably worth looking into and doing more trials, but I highly doubt Desert Lime is close to being in the same league as species like Ichang papeda.

That being said, one of the notable things about Australian Desert Lime is its drought tolerance, it can probably survive better through periods of little water and hot dry conditions than any other citrus species.
(I'm thinking this attribute could possibly make its hybrids useful for low-maintenance ornamentals in public areas)

I would also guess that even if it did survive through a low temperature point, that period of time was very short. The conditions in deserts tend to be very different from temperate places further north. Due to lack of moisture or any nearby bodies of water to moderate temperature, it is easier for there to be sudden temperature swings. There's a big difference between going down to -11 F for just 20 or 30 minutes, versus going down to -11 F amidst a 24-hour period where the temperatures have remained well below freezing.
Maybe it is capable of surviving -11 F but suffers extensive damage at that point and is then later is able to quickly regrow and recover.

This post is mostly speculation, of course, I don't grow Desert Lime or Razzlequat, and I really don't know.
Good post, by the way.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2020, 05:25:17 PM by SoCal2warm »

hardyvermont

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Re: Australian Desert Lime hardy to -11f?
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2020, 10:20:43 AM »
On an old forum there was speculation that there was a mistake about hardiness, possibly because of confusion between degrees F and C, and that the mistake had been copied.

SoCal2warm

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Re: Australian Desert Lime hardy to -11f?
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2020, 06:46:12 PM »
On an old forum there was speculation that there was a mistake about hardiness, possibly because of confusion between degrees F and C, and that the mistake had been copied.
That thought had crossed my mind as well, and that seems very plausible. -11 C is about 12 degrees F.
especially since in Australia they would presume "degrees" would imply Celsius.
12 F is very close to around what many other hardy citrus in this category are rated at. I think that's about the same level as Keraji.

ZAP

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Re: Australian Desert Lime hardy to -11f?
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2020, 04:57:16 PM »
I searched Tasmanian gardening blogs.  It's quite a bit colder in "TAZ" than on mainland South Australia. 
If there was a wild specimen of Desert Lime in TAZ that might be very cold tolerant. 

AU Gardening blogs suggest Desert lime has little frost hardiness.

Citrus Glauca was not considered an outdoor survivor.  But I have read that they survive fire by sprouting up from their roots.   (on AU mainland..)
Citrus Glauca are also notable for blooming several times a year. 
« Last Edit: October 28, 2020, 05:01:04 PM by ZAP »

Pandan

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Re: Australian Desert Lime hardy to -11f?
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2020, 09:36:31 PM »
I think this species also takes some time to mature? Don't quote me on that I just remember the razzlequat (which is a desert lime descendant?) took noticeable time to mature.

That being said this is an interesting plant for its tolerances.

Anyone know someone selling seeds  ;D

pagnr

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Re: Australian Desert Lime hardy to -11f?
« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2020, 02:27:31 AM »
The temp -11 F is an error. This was detailed elsewhere.
If you are lucky they might take - 11 C . Thats the temp of a severe frost in inland Australia, maybe a one on ten year event.
-11  F / -24 C is unheard of in Australia maybe except sub Antarctic Islands, or further south to Antarctica.

citrange

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Re: Australian Desert Lime hardy to -11f?
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2020, 06:06:43 PM »
The cold tolerance error has been around for a long time. This is my explanation given on my website many years ago.
See http://www.homecitrusgrowers.co.uk/australiannativecitrus/eremocitrusglauca.html

This is a remarkable plant that grows in arid, near desert conditions, and can survive some frost. However, it is often said to be hardy to -24C.
This is definitely incorrect and arose from an error in the first edition of the reference book 'The Citrus Industry, Vol. 1.'
The book stated cold hardiness to......."ten or more degrees below zero Fahrenheit (-5.5C or lower)".    But zero Fahrenheit is far colder than -5,5C!
What was meant was.........................."ten or more degrees below freezing Fahrenheit (-5.5C or lower)".  This conversion would have been correct.
The second edition now corrected the wrong part of this error, making the conversion correct but the information wrong.
It claimed hardiness to........................"ten or more degrees below zero Fahrenheit (-24C or lower)."
 Evidence from USA confirms plants do not survive freezes of around -10C. It is probably hardy to about -5C in dry conditions.