The Tropical Fruit Forum
Tropical Fruit => Tropical Fruit Discussion => Topic started by: Benoit30 on June 26, 2019, 09:51:02 AM
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I would like to grow cherimoya in France !
I live in Nīmes (9A). I have try direct seedlings, grafted trees (fino del jete from Spain). My trees die often in spring, maybe it's because of the wind, the cold and rainy winter (but the new leaves appears, and the plant start to die)... I don't know why ?
(http://acclimatons.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/2019_cheri1.jpg)
Cherimoya grows in Menton (10A or 10B), just few meters from the sea.
(http://acclimatons.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/2018_menton_chirimoya.jpg)
I recently bought a terrain near Menton (the best climate in France between Monaco and Italy) almost no frost and no wind ! But the maximum temperature in winter is cold (about 13°C average high in winter). As I'm not millionare, my garden is 3 km far from the coast (elevation 250 m., no frost this year). What do you think? Is there any frost resistant species ?
Any advice would be appreciate ;)
Do you think it would be possible ?
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If wind killed cherimoyas, mine would all be dead. But they arent so I dont think thats your problem.
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Salt?
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I dont think salt is the problem.
In Nīmes, I'm 50 km from the coast, and they only recieve rain water.
I manage to grow sucessfully in Nīmes : avocado, tamarillo, sapote Blanco and citrus.
Here is my garden blog :
http://acclimatons.com/ (http://acclimatons.com/)
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Maybe a zoomed out picture of the entire plant and surrounding area would help give us a better feel for the environment there.
I cant tell without a better photo but all the green plants near the ground and such a small tree its possible the tree is getting too much water.
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Unfortunatly, I remove the plant. Too much water is possible, but a big avocado (4 meters high at least) near the dead plant has no problem...
Are cherimoya so sensitive to overwatering ?
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They dont seem to be super sensitive to over watering. But they do have really small weak root systems that may not like it when they are little. They seem to do well in pots. Maybe you can use pots for a few years until the trees are larger.
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Thank you.
I have 3 Fino del jete in pots (1.5 m. high, with flowers !). Do you recommand to plant them next spring ?
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Plant them when they get dormant.Small leaves and the plant dies after its a problem caused by the planting where you do something wrong.
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I grew a few cherimoya seedlings from grocery store fruit seeds. They started out great then one died and the other has had stunted wilted leaves for months now but looks like it will recover. They might just be finicky, my other container trees are fine in the same soil and environment, and I just got a grafted cherimoya that is looking happy.
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cherimoya should have no problem with frost. None of my trees died in 0C (32F) night temperature. I think trunk rotted is the issue. Keep the trunks clear from other plants and shrubs.
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The wind itself should not be a problem. In Spain very exposed branches might die back from the wind but the trees survive.
The problem might rather be the low temperature of the Mistral in S. France, maybe in combination with some pests. Did you see anything on the roots when you removed the tree?. In S. Spain the Cherimoya plantations hug the coast and i do not remember seing any more than 5-6 km from the sea. So they are very salt tolerant but not frost tolerant.
You might be successful at Menton as long as you find a nice sheltered spot for them. I wish you luck and please report on the results👍
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Did you see anything on the roots when you removed the tree?
When I removed the plant, there where root rot, not a single small root visible.
Today, temperature are higher than 40°C... Dont know if they will survive :-\
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Did you measured the soil ph?It seems the tree its planted near a wall and that wall might make your soil extremely alkaline.
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In my experience Annona cherimola seedlings are relatively dry resistant and also relatively forgiving to soil conditions, including alcaline exposures. I planted some seeds in a bad hydroponic pot. This pot was a serial killer of plants and cherimoyas where the only survivors. They really hate stagnant conditions on the other hand.
As long as there is some green in stems your plant can recover and resprout leaves, but high temperatures should be avoided and will need regular watering in a well drained pot..
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From the literature cherimoya is sensitive to Verticillium (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verticillium_wilt), which can appear when the cultivation area has recently been planted with any number of variety of plants which can harbor it.
I would verify that none of the listed species have been grown in the area in which you intend to cultivate a cherimoya for at least 3 years.
That said, it's worth trying to grow, so don't give up.
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Thank you for all those informations !
Did you measured the soil ph?
No I dont. This small garden, in the city center of Nīmes it's reputed to be more or less neutral (7). But when you dig you find some calcaire stones cause Nīmes is an old gallo-romain city (2500 years).
Today the temperature in Nīmes are very high (44.4°C).
The cherimoya seedlings suffer a lot (but the seedlings from Madeira seems Ok). And avocado looks very Bad... I will post pictures.
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This picture show a Mexicola tree... (https://i.postimg.cc/SYc4P8mV/img-20190628-163426.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/SYc4P8mV)
In the pot a cherimoya seedling from Madeira, un front seedlings from Spain.
(https://i.postimg.cc/0bdxdpWy/img-20190628-164940.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/0bdxdpWy)
Near Nīmes, in a small town called Gallargue, temperature reached 45.8°C (114.4°F). This is the record of all Time for France...
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That's hot.
Cherimoya and avocado do not respond well to heat in that range like a mango would, and that could be part of the issue, but it looks to be "damping off", or verticillium.
Either way, it would not be recommended to plant cherimoya in any area where solanaceous plants like tomato have been grown, as tomato is very susceptible to verticillium and can transmit infection by way of hosting the fungi.
The stress of a hot day can definitely exacerbate the issue, causing the plant to become more susceptible to fungal infection and succumbing to illness.
If you can find an area for a cherimoya in which gardening has not taken place in the last few years you may still have a chance, but I would not attempt to transplant seedlings from the garden areas lest the infection be spread.
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Sometimes cold damage can be seen during Spring, after the lower winter temperatures.
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it would not be recommended to plant cherimoya in any area where solanaceous plants
It will be hard to follow this tip as I have planted almost everywhere physalis and tomatos... Definitively, I think that I will have more chance to grow cherimoya in Menton (cause it's a new garden !)
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Benoit I send you a pm (private message).
However this is not necessarily the verticillium.
For the avocado it's probably the heat of the last time (45° to 50°C in La Rochelle) mine also took a little hot shot.
With the heat I have an annona cherimola which is always well in a greenhouse where the temperature rises to 60°C.
But with the pictures I lean more for a hot shot.
Besides I just took a look at your blog here (http://acclimatons.com/le-cherimoya-en-zone-usda-9/ (http://acclimatons.com/le-cherimoya-en-zone-usda-9/)) I must confess that my experience has given me different results .
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Check the ph because that wall its made of calcareous stone .Even if they are tolerant of alkaline conditions ,the alkalinity near that wall might be too much for them especially after a rainy season because the rain water draws CO2 from air and becomes slightly acid and then it dissolves a little of that wall .
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cherimoya should do fine in poor soil and hot weather. In fact I have a few seedlings that are grown in pure desert soil.
As for Avocado, it does not do well in hot weather but, It can be grown in a little bit of shade.
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Check the ph because that wall its made of calcareous stone .Even if they are tolerant of alkaline conditions ,the alkalinity near that wall might be too much for them especially after a rainy season because the rain water draws CO2 from air and becomes slightly acid and then it dissolves a little of that wall .
So I have just bought a PH meter it indicates 6.0. What do you think ?
(https://i.postimg.cc/xJ89yXYK/2019-ph-roussy.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/xJ89yXYK)
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cherimoya should do fine in poor soil and hot weather. In fact I have a few seedlings that are grown in pure desert soil.
As for Avocado, it does not do well in hot weather but, It can be grown in a little bit of shade.
Incredible !!! I 'm very surprised, shade must be very helpful.
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Check the ph because that wall its made of calcareous stone .Even if they are tolerant of alkaline conditions ,the alkalinity near that wall might be too much for them especially after a rainy season because the rain water draws CO2 from air and becomes slightly acid and then it dissolves a little of that wall .
So I have just bought a PH meter it indicates 6.0. What do you think ?
(https://i.postimg.cc/xJ89yXYK/2019-ph-roussy.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/xJ89yXYK)
Benoit,that ph meter its a joke and not acurate.It would be impossible to have even 7 near that limestone wall.
I hope you didnt spend too much on that ph meter and better find somme Litmus paper to measure the ph.
If you want a ph meter and not Litmus paper,there are accurate ph meters ,the ones that have the probe made of glass .Chinese make one with glass probe for about 10-15 dollars on Ebay ,but its for water.
I mannaged to modify it to expose the electrode more so i can stick it in wet soil and it works great.
This is a good ph meter.You can see it has a glass probe and costs about 900 australian dollars.https://hannainst.com.au/hi99121-ph-meter-for-direct-soil-measurement.html (https://hannainst.com.au/hi99121-ph-meter-for-direct-soil-measurement.html)
(https://i.postimg.cc/9QcG4GTV/20190702-131241.jpg)
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I have never tried to grow cherimoya before. I thought they would not do well in Desert climate and poor soil, But once you give them Micro nutrients and Potassium , they should do well. I believe the lack of Micro nutrients in your soil is the problem.
Here is a couple of Fino de Jete cherimoya seedlings, they are about two months old.
(https://i.postimg.cc/sBHPnsTC/IMG-20190702-185558.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/sBHPnsTC)