Pithecellobium Dulce, Guamuchil, Manilla Tamarind

[shaneatwell]

Plants in pots but can be in ground.. { i have a major prob. with Deer getting to them, so i have them in pots  }
Pakistan mulberry, ever bearing mulberry,  Ice-cream Banana, Papaya, miho satsuma,Ujukitsu, kumquat, calamondin, sunburst tangerine, royal lee and minnie royal cherries, pink and white guavas, Fantastic Avocado, Mission Olive, Moringa (drumstick tree), Pithecellobium dulce (guamichile or sweet madras or manilla tamarind), Rabbiteye Blueberries, passion fruit vine.

I don't see much discussion of this tree here. Seems like a spiky version of ice cream bean. Interested in growing it for edible yet fearsome hedge. Anyone have experience with it? In California?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pithecellobium_dulce

Main complaints in other forums appears to be cold sensitivity and abundance of seedlings.

[Jack, Nipomo]

Guamulchil is quite common in arroyos and as dooryard trees in Baja California.  Children like to eat the stuff around the seeds.  I have grown it several times in Central CA up to about 4 ft only to have it die due to cold.  This year we had 22 - 24ºF, which is uncommon, but happens.  Don't recall a thorn issue. 

[Raulglezruiz]

Grows like a weed here! mostly along the rivers, people really go after the fruit, you see all kind older, middle age and kids with the long poles trying to get the fruit, which I heard is rich in protein, and I think because the firm flesh has a good potential to cook with it, flowering is just starting now

[shaneatwell]

From http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/duke_energy/Pithecellobium_dulce.html

Often planted for living fence or thorny hedge, eventually nearly impenetrable, guamachil furnishes food, forage, and firewood, while fixing a little nitrogen. The pods, harvested in Mexico, Cuba, and Thailand, and customarily sold on roadside stands, contain a thick sweetish, but also acidic pulp, eaten raw or made into a drink similar to lemonade. Pods are devoured by livestock of all kinds; the leaves are browsed by horses, cattle, goats, and sheep; and hedge clippings are often gathered for animal feed. The plants withstand heavy browsing. The seeds contain a greenish oil (20%), which, after refining and bleaching, can be used for food or in making soap. The presscake, rich in protein (30%), may be used as stockfeed. Bark used as a fish poison in the Philippines (Perry, 1980). Known in the Philippines as "Kamachil", the wood, malodorous when cut, is used for boxes, crates, fuel, and wagon wheels. The gum exuding from the trunk can be used for mucilage, the tannin for tanning. The bark is harvested for tanning in Mexico. Tree seems promising for the cultivation of the lac insect. Flowers make good honey.

Seems to withstand everything but cold.

Is it best to just grow from seed?

[Tropicaliste]

I kind of like the fruit.  It's a little like cotton candy, but there isn't much of it.  Fairly easy to grow from seeds, and they look similar to Sesbania.  I can't stand the thorns though, which seem more like small spikes to me.  Kind of something you find growing randomly around rice fields in the Philippines, it does kind of keep out intruders.

[bangkok]

The manilla tamarind is all over the markets here now. Because i don't like tamarind i never ate this one before but i admit it is quite tasty.

It's not a superfruit but more a nice snack and gives you something to do (while travelling or so).

It is sweet and quite addictive. If i lived far away from shops i sure would grow it.

[darkcoolboo]

I find this in abundance at my local Lowes. They come in March, but stay on the shelf for quite a while. I think it's because people don't know what they are and would spend their ~20$ on a mango instead.

[bangkok]

Yes i can understand that, also water is expensive in your area.

But for children this is a great tree, if they need a snack they can gorge on those beans, much better then candy i assume.

Thai people like to eat all day long so this is perfect for them.

[stuartdaly88]

Has anyone seen this red pulped version?
Is it legit?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/121665818977

[barath]

Has anyone seen this red pulped version?
Is it legit?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/121665818977

I don't know if the red pulped variety is legit but the seller has been legit, at least in my past order of regular guamuchil seeds from them.

[stuartdaly88]

Has anyone seen this red pulped version?
Is it legit?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/121665818977

I don't know if the red pulped variety is legit but the seller has been legit, at least in my past order of regular guamuchil seeds from them.

Thank you Barath that is good to know because I couldnt help myself and already ordered this!
I read on the web that their is a red variety and it is sweeter than the white so sounds interesting! I already have someone sending some white ones my way
This plant will make a great edible security hedge.

Im such an addict for ebay cheap prices and interesting seeds even if you get burned now and then its worth it if you stick to the cheap lots.
I went on abit of a cold hardy splurge today got seeds for sakatoon berry-Amelanchier alnifolia, Medlar-Mespilus germanica, Schisandra chinensis and this red manilla tamarind(the odd man out) for like 20bucks Even if only two species sprout its more than worth it.

[gozp]

Are anyone growing these in SoCal or any location that gets below 40 farenheit?

[LivingParadise]

I love the site Useful Tropical Plants - gives a lot of good info about this one in particular: http://tropical.theferns.info/viewtropical.php?id=Pithecellobium+dulce

Sounds like it would be perfect for this area, plus has medicinal uses and is nitrogen fixing. But, it sounds like it has strong potential to become invasive and is currently being evaluated as such in Florida (no decision yet). If I can find some seeds or a plant somewhere, I might bag the whole thing just to be safe, because the local ecosystem is so fragile and rare.

Anyone know how long it takes to fruit from seed? I would certain like an alternative to my ice cream bean, which has so far given no fruit.

Also, where might I get a plant or seeds? Any online in-US nurseries have it?

**Update: a little searching showed me that several Etsy sellers have seeds and small plants, which is helpful because I have used Etsy occasionally, unlike Ebay which I've still never tried. But it also showed me something called Ken's Nursery, which surprises me - an online nursery, apparently in Florida, that has various tropical plants... anybody have experience with this place before? Looks like a pretty straightforward site, with good prices... could I have found another option for Florida ordering that is actually viable? Please advise if you know anything about Ken's Nursery, thanks.

[shaneatwell]

Are anyone growing these in SoCal or any location that gets below 40 farenheit?

I've had one in ground for at least one winter maybe two. Got it at a HD. Doing ok. Touches 32deg about 5 times every winter. Hasn't dropped below the last couple years though.

[barath]

Everything I've read says that P. dulce can handle down to the low 20s F when mature.  They also grow like crazy if given enough heat -- I've gotten 6 feet of growth in a year in Concord.

[Birdman]

They grow very well here in my part of Southern California. Frost will definitely kill them but that is very rare here. They are very thorny but they are also drought tolerant and are very attractive to pollinators. It's usually smaller ones that are cold sensitive, they will get huge and more tolerant. I have a few I have grown from seed last fall and they overwintered without protection just fine.

[barath]

They grow very well here in my part of Southern California. Frost will definitely kill them but that is very rare here. They are very thorny but they are also drought tolerant and are very attractive to pollinators. It's usually smaller ones that are cold sensitive, they will get huge and more tolerant. I have a few I have grown from seed last fall and they overwintered without protection just fine.

Their drought tolerance is pretty amazing.  I've seen some growing wild in Kona, Hawaii, in the area of the island that gets something like 12 inches of rain a year, is hot year round, and is pretty much just dry broken lava rock (not the lava flows themselves, but in the coastal areas).

[Zafra]

I'm interested in the impenetrable hedge thing - the trees are so big, how do they work as a hedge planted so close together? Has anyone seen this or have a picture? How fast does it grow?

[wonderfruit]

In south florida they grow pretty well. I have one 9 feet tall 5 years old. It didn't fruit yet. I m planning to grow. Here branches get covered with horny insects

[Caesar]

It's one of the most common weeds in the drier parts of the island, but I'm kinda fond of them. They're usually crawling with Thorn Bugs and Iguanas over here, though. They barely reach trail nibble status here, most people don't even seem to be aware that they're edible. I've tried 'em once or twice, but wasn't too fond of the taste: bland, with a delicate nondescript aftertaste that was nonetheless not particularly appealing to my palate. That said, I felt like the texture would be great for candying. Has anyone tried any recipes with these? And are there improved varieties?

[Raulglezruiz]

It's one of the most common weeds in the drier parts of the island, but I'm kinda fond of them. They're usually crawling with Thorn Bugs and Iguanas over here, though. They barely reach trail nibble status here, most people don't even seem to be aware that they're edible. I've tried 'em once or twice, but wasn't too fond of the taste: bland, with a delicate nondescript aftertaste that was nonetheless not particularly appealing to my palate. That said, I felt like the texture would be great for candying. Has anyone tried any recipes with these? And are there improved varieties?

fried with onions,, tomatoes and scrambled eggs with 🌽 corn Tortillas are 😋 delicious!

[barath]

It's one of the most common weeds in the drier parts of the island, but I'm kinda fond of them. They're usually crawling with Thorn Bugs and Iguanas over here, though. They barely reach trail nibble status here, most people don't even seem to be aware that they're edible. I've tried 'em once or twice, but wasn't too fond of the taste: bland, with a delicate nondescript aftertaste that was nonetheless not particularly appealing to my palate. That said, I felt like the texture would be great for candying. Has anyone tried any recipes with these? And are there improved varieties?

fried with onions,, tomatoes and scrambled eggs with 🌽 corn Tortillas are 😋 delicious!

Do you fry the beans in the pods or just the fluffy pulp?

[Caesar]

It's one of the most common weeds in the drier parts of the island, but I'm kinda fond of them. They're usually crawling with Thorn Bugs and Iguanas over here, though. They barely reach trail nibble status here, most people don't even seem to be aware that they're edible. I've tried 'em once or twice, but wasn't too fond of the taste: bland, with a delicate nondescript aftertaste that was nonetheless not particularly appealing to my palate. That said, I felt like the texture would be great for candying. Has anyone tried any recipes with these? And are there improved varieties?

fried with onions,, tomatoes and scrambled eggs with 🌽 corn Tortillas are 😋 delicious!

That's it! That's the delicate aftertaste! No wonder I didn't enjoy it very much. I had expected them to be sweet, but it pushes them very slightly into savory territory. That makes much more sense, now I wanna try 'em like that. Gotta look for a tree to harvest some pods in the upcoming weeks, if they're still producing over here.

[gozp]

Are anyone growing these in SoCal or any location that gets below 40 farenheit?

I've had one in ground for at least one winter maybe two. Got it at a HD. Doing ok. Touches 32deg about 5 times every winter. Hasn't dropped below the last couple years though.

I just got mine at Lowe's &has a marker that it guarantees to fruit in a year.
The tree is about 3.5 feet.


We have this trees in the Philippines. They pretty much get invasive plus the worms attract the fruit pods---- I get to eat vegetarian worm:)

[Raulglezruiz]

It's one of the most common weeds in the drier parts of the island, but I'm kinda fond of them. They're usually crawling with Thorn Bugs and Iguanas over here, though. They barely reach trail nibble status here, most people don't even seem to be aware that they're edible. I've tried 'em once or twice, but wasn't too fond of the taste: bland, with a delicate nondescript aftertaste that was nonetheless not particularly appealing to my palate. That said, I felt like the texture would be great for candying. Has anyone tried any recipes with these? And are there improved varieties?

fried with onions,, tomatoes and scrambled eggs with 🌽 corn Tortillas are 😋 delicious!

Do you fry the beans in the pods or just the fluffy pulp?

Hi Barath, hehehe, just the white flesh or pulp, the seed and pod are not edible...
And if you add a Serrano or jalapeño Chile while frying even better!