Author Topic: Melicoccus Oliviformis a good alternative for Mamoncillos!  (Read 11097 times)

Raulglezruiz

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1480
  • Puerto Vallarta,Mexico. Lat 21.5 Semi Tropical
    • View Profile
Melicoccus Oliviformis a good alternative for Mamoncillos!
« on: June 16, 2015, 11:34:53 PM »


Very sweet with a tangy ending note
No need of male and female plant
More compact tree
From the area of the Gulf of Mexico
El verde es vida!

FlyingFoxFruits

  • Prince of Plinia
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12548
  • www.FlyingFoxFruits.com
    • USA, FEMA Region IV, FL Zone 9a
    • View Profile
    • Flying Fox Fruits
Re: Melicoccus Oliviformis a good alternative for Mamoncillos!
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2015, 12:05:31 AM »
Very interesting!

I wonder if it's more cold tolerant?? (What is approx cold tolerance?)

Approx how long to fruit from seed?

And what is max height?
www.FlyingFoxFruits.com

www.PLINIAS.com

https://www.ebay.com/usr/flyingfoxfruits

www.youtube.com/FlyingFoxFruits

https://www.instagram.com/flyingfoxfruits/
I disabled the forum's personal messaging system, please send an email to contact me, FlyingFoxFruits@gmail.com

Marsbars

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 46
    • CA 10a
    • View Profile
Re: Melicoccus Oliviformis a good alternative for Mamoncillos!
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2015, 12:18:00 AM »
http://tropical.theferns.info/viewtropical.php?id=Melicoccus+oliviformis

A plant of the hot, tropical lowlands [335]. It is found in areas with an average annual temperature of 26 °c, with a maximum temperature of 36.7 °c and a minimum temperature of 14.9 °c [337]. It succeeds in areas with a low to high rainfall that range between 900 - 1,800 mm with an average of approximately 1288mm [335, 337]. Plants are intolerant of frost [335]. Succeeds in full sun to fairly dense, dappled shade [625]. Prefers a well-drained soil [625]. Succeeds in poor to good soils[335]. Young plants have a moderate rate of growth [625]. A long-lived, but slow-growing tree[337].Seedling trees can commence fruiting when 7 - 10 years old [335]. This plant is probably one of the ancient Maya fruit trees [317]. Plants are usually dioecious, so both male and female forms need to be grown if fruit and seed are required.

I don't know the legitimacy of this website but, its seems trustworthy.

Raulglezruiz

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1480
  • Puerto Vallarta,Mexico. Lat 21.5 Semi Tropical
    • View Profile
Re: Melicoccus Oliviformis a good alternative for Mamoncillos!
« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2015, 12:26:55 AM »
Very interesting!

I wonder if it's more cold tolerant?? (What is approx cold tolerance?)

Approx how long to fruit from seed?

And what is max height?
Hi Adam;
This trees are from tropical Tabasco all the way up to Tuxpan Veracruz perhaps thrive northern than this but I havent been more north he;he in tuxpan my wife says winter time drops about 7/8 celsius;; fruit between 4/5 years with proper care; I will show tomorrow the pic if a over 20 years old at probably 10 feet; v
Also very  pruning friendly; people who likes mamoncillos should love this one; dont know if theres better quality but those bijugatus I tried in costa Rica; Nicaragua and Dominican Rep; I saw locals people really enjoying them; but I hardly could eat them cause the astringency and the fact that I was comparing them with the Guayas; the fruit is very similar in flesh color but the skin of the guaya is not bright is opaque; the tree and leaves are also different
El verde es vida!

Raulglezruiz

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1480
  • Puerto Vallarta,Mexico. Lat 21.5 Semi Tropical
    • View Profile
Re: Melicoccus Oliviformis a good alternative for Mamoncillos!
« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2015, 12:37:28 AM »
http://tropical.theferns.info/viewtropical.php?id=Melicoccus+oliviformis

A plant of the hot, tropical lowlands [335]. It is found in areas with an average annual temperature of 26 °c, with a maximum temperature of 36.7 °c and a minimum temperature of 14.9 °c [337]. It succeeds in areas with a low to high rainfall that range between 900 - 1,800 mm with an average of approximately 1288mm [335, 337]. Plants are intolerant of frost [335]. Succeeds in full sun to fairly dense, dappled shade [625]. Prefers a well-drained soil [625]. Succeeds in poor to good soils[335]. Young plants have a moderate rate of growth [625]. A long-lived, but slow-growing tree[337].Seedling trees can commence fruiting when 7 - 10 years old [335]. This plant is probably one of the ancient Maya fruit trees [317]. Plants are usually dioecious, so both male and female forms need to be grown if fruit and seed are required.

I don't know the legitimacy of this website but, its seems trustworthy.
Looks like this article refers to the most common Melicoccus Bijugatus even do has the oliviformis name on it I see in some places can be use as a sinonim; mention the range all centroamerica  all the way up to Mexico and talks also of tropical weather; while this tree I have is mostly endemic of the gulf if Mexico  and takes more cold perhaps 7/8 celsius; also the other for trees besides my single one and the other dingle one in the city are setting fruit on its own
El verde es vida!

LEOOEL

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1775
    • USA, South Florida, Miami, Temperature Zone 10b
    • View Profile
Re: Melicoccus Oliviformis a good alternative for Mamoncillos!
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2015, 04:51:24 AM »
It looks great! I hope that there are sweet varieties available. If not, it seems like a great candidate for fruit quality development and improvement.

'Virtue' should be taught, learned and propagated, in order to save others and oneself.

FlyingFoxFruits

  • Prince of Plinia
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12548
  • www.FlyingFoxFruits.com
    • USA, FEMA Region IV, FL Zone 9a
    • View Profile
    • Flying Fox Fruits
Re: Melicoccus Oliviformis a good alternative for Mamoncillos!
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2015, 10:29:16 AM »
i think collectors in South FL should really consider this fruit tree!

I wonder if the fruiting season is different than the Mamoncillo?

it would be nice to have these fruits earlier or later, when no other mamoncillo fruits are around.

also wondering if the flesh clings to the seed the same way? or maybe it's easier to remove?

it's hard to tell from the photo, but the fruits you posted pics of look much larger than the mamoncillo fruits I've seen in FL.

(4-5yrs from seed??!!!  :o  I hear mamoncillo takes much longer?!)
www.FlyingFoxFruits.com

www.PLINIAS.com

https://www.ebay.com/usr/flyingfoxfruits

www.youtube.com/FlyingFoxFruits

https://www.instagram.com/flyingfoxfruits/
I disabled the forum's personal messaging system, please send an email to contact me, FlyingFoxFruits@gmail.com

gunnar429

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3320
  • Nothing like fruit from your own yard!
    • West Park, FL 33023, Zone 10b
    • View Profile
Re: Melicoccus Oliviformis a good alternative for Mamoncillos!
« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2015, 07:27:55 AM »
agreed.  If I didn't know Raul, I would be suspicious, as this seems to be superior to mamoncillo in almost every way.  Thanks, Raul.  This one has real potential!
~Jeff

"Say you just can't live that negative way, if you know what I mean. Make way for the positive day." - Positive Vibration

Finca La Isla

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2129
    • Costa Rica, Southern Caribbean coast
    • View Profile
    • finca la isla
Re: Melicoccus Oliviformis a good alternative for Mamoncillos!
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2015, 07:44:05 AM »
Hola Raul
What is the common name in Mexico for this fruit.
Saludos,
Peter

luc

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2448
    • Mexico , Puerto Vallarta , Jalisco . 20 degr. North
    • View Profile
Re: Melicoccus Oliviformis a good alternative for Mamoncillos!
« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2015, 07:57:29 PM »
Hola Raul
What is the common name in Mexico for this fruit.
Saludos,
Peter

Guaya , Peter.
Luc Vleeracker
Puerto Vallarta
Mexico , Pacific coast.
20 degrees north

Raulglezruiz

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1480
  • Puerto Vallarta,Mexico. Lat 21.5 Semi Tropical
    • View Profile
Re: Melicoccus Oliviformis a good alternative for Mamoncillos!
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2015, 10:32:42 PM »
Hola Raul
What is the common name in Mexico for this fruit.
Saludos,
Peter
hola Peter they are call Guayas in Veracruz; Tabasco and Chiapas
El verde es vida!

Mike T

  • Zone 12a
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9014
  • Cairns,Nth Qld, Australia
    • Zone 12a
    • View Profile
Re: Melicoccus Oliviformis a good alternative for Mamoncillos!
« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2015, 10:39:46 PM »
Wow Luc and Raul I sure like the look of those!

EvilFruit

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1257
    • Dubai, UAE
    • View Profile
Re: Melicoccus Oliviformis a good alternative for Mamoncillos!
« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2016, 07:08:36 AM »
Raul,

Do you know how long it will take to fruit this one ? .

I think you mentioned before that this tree is self fertile, right ?.

You already answered these questions

Thanks
« Last Edit: April 09, 2016, 07:16:58 AM by EvilFruit »
Moh'd

gunnar429

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3320
  • Nothing like fruit from your own yard!
    • West Park, FL 33023, Zone 10b
    • View Profile
Re: Melicoccus Oliviformis a good alternative for Mamoncillos!
« Reply #13 on: April 09, 2016, 12:39:31 PM »
germination was good on these.  They are approx 8-10" tall at the moment.  Thanks again, Raul!
~Jeff

"Say you just can't live that negative way, if you know what I mean. Make way for the positive day." - Positive Vibration

Tetsu0

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 115
    • USA, FL, Tampa, 10a
    • View Profile
Re: Melicoccus Oliviformis a good alternative for Mamoncillos!
« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2016, 06:05:16 PM »
There are two main types of Melicoccus Oliviformis, one with white translucent flesh and one typical orange pink color. And even more variable types in between including precocious ones. This genus and it's sister Talisia has so much diversity in it, for the better and mostly for the worst.

Finca La Isla

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2129
    • Costa Rica, Southern Caribbean coast
    • View Profile
    • finca la isla
Re: Melicoccus Oliviformis a good alternative for Mamoncillos!
« Reply #15 on: April 10, 2016, 11:01:45 PM »
I am about to plant some seedlings that I got the material from near Papantla, Veracruz.  I ate the fruit and it was pretty good, it is not a white pulp type of which I am unaware.  I am being cautious about the claim that the tree is not diocious and planting 4 trees.  I have high hopes for this and am going to give these trees a nice new spot on my farm.  In coastal Veracruz the trees were in production in mid June which is a time when we don't have many good fruits so it would be very welcome.
The mamoncillos that we have in CR are very slow and mostly marginal quality.  They're also not easy to graft. 
Peter

Kona fruit farm

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 430
  • Aloha
    • Big Island; Hawaii. Kona 1700' Elev. Zone 12a
    • View Profile
Re: Melicoccus Oliviformis a good alternative for Mamoncillos!
« Reply #16 on: April 11, 2016, 03:26:20 AM »
Raul I must have this fruit.  Haha Any idea Where can I get some seeds or seedlings??  When I used to live  in Venezuela we had mamoncillo and it was awesome.  So I'm excited about the prospect of having something like this. 
With 3 acres of prime real estate for growing tropicals... why not create my own garden of eden?? Work in progress

Tetsu0

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 115
    • USA, FL, Tampa, 10a
    • View Profile
Re: Melicoccus Oliviformis a good alternative for Mamoncillos!
« Reply #17 on: April 11, 2016, 10:53:45 AM »
I didn't make a positive ID at the time but I feel like this most likely is oliviformis subsp. intermedius. It had the pale white flesh and the heavy dusty gray covering on the outside skin. I remember the leaves looking different than usual mamoncillo leaves. This one was actually sweet though despite literature describing them as sour. It could however well be just melicoccus bijugatus, I've seen so much variation in them you can never know with out properly IDing the tree.


huertasurbanas

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3377
    • Junín, Argentina, zone 9b/9a
    • View Profile
    • huertasurbanas
Re: Melicoccus Oliviformis a good alternative for Mamoncillos!
« Reply #18 on: December 11, 2017, 08:57:13 PM »
Hi, does anybody ever tasted or grow melicoccus bijugatus? a woman from Argentina told me that their taste is similar to bubble gum or caramel, very sweet.

And it seems that the seed is edible!

". La almendra tostada se parece a la del marañón y es muy apetecida por los niños. Con la pulpa se puede preparar cerveza o aguardiente. Los indígenas del Orinoco consumen la semilla cocinada como sustituto de la yuca. "

https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melicoccus_bijugatus
ONLINE SHOP:

https://www.huertasurbanas.com/shop

30% Discount Coupon: FIRST

Mike T

  • Zone 12a
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9014
  • Cairns,Nth Qld, Australia
    • Zone 12a
    • View Profile
Re: Melicoccus Oliviformis a good alternative for Mamoncillos!
« Reply #19 on: December 11, 2017, 09:07:25 PM »
I have three from Raul planted in my yard 2 years ago and they are between 1.4m and 2m tall now.

huertasurbanas

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3377
    • Junín, Argentina, zone 9b/9a
    • View Profile
    • huertasurbanas
Re: Melicoccus Oliviformis a good alternative for Mamoncillos!
« Reply #20 on: December 12, 2017, 05:32:50 AM »
I have three from Raul planted in my yard 2 years ago and they are between 1.4m and 2m tall now.

Great! I would like to see a photo of the tree... and a taste report when you can...
ONLINE SHOP:

https://www.huertasurbanas.com/shop

30% Discount Coupon: FIRST

fsanchez2002

  • FedHomestead
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 184
    • Homestead, FL
    • View Profile
Re: Melicoccus Oliviformis a good alternative for Mamoncillos!
« Reply #21 on: December 12, 2017, 07:40:01 AM »
I have three from Raul planted in my yard 2 years ago and they are between 1.4m and 2m tall now.

Great! I would like to see a photo of the tree... and a taste report when you can...

Marcos: I believe there are only 3 species of melicoccus. You may want to look into Melicoccus lepidopetalus, which I believe it's originally from NArgentina/Bolivia (aka Coquito de San Juan) and probably more temperate that other melicoccus. I have 2 Melicoccus lepidopetalus trees doing well in Miami, but yet unsexed and they're dioecious. I also have Raul's melicoccus, at about 1 mt. also doing well in Miami.

This is what i have on this tree:

Motoyoé: Melicoccus lepidopetalus  - Sapindácea Motoyoé (toda la Chiquitania, Santa Cruz), guapomba, aguapomba (Brasil), coquito de San Juan (Argentina)

Características Árbol grande, muy frondoso y ramificado, ramas tortuosas, follaje denso. Hojas compuestas por dos hojuelas opuestas. En la época seca cambia el follaje,  simultáneamente con el retoño de nuevas hojas, adquiriendo un hermoso color verde limón. Flores pequeñas, blancas, muy olorosas a miel. Los frutos son pequeños, globosos, algunos alargados o incluso con el extremo inferior en punta.  Al madurar la cáscara, varía de verdosa a amarilla, la pulpa interna anaranjada, fibrosa, dulce pero ligeramente áspera. 
Floración y fructificación Florece al retoñar entre agosto y septiembre. Los frutos maduran entre octubre y noviembre.
Dónde crece Crece en áreas de influencia chaqueña, como las tierras bajas del este o el valle de Tucabaca. Por influencia humana, se halla disperso en gran parte de las comunidades de la Chiquitania.
Usos Los frutos son muy apreciados por la población local, que los consume al natural. Es un árbol muy atractivo para espacios grandes, como ornamental y de sombra.
 
Federico
Homestead, FL

huertasurbanas

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3377
    • Junín, Argentina, zone 9b/9a
    • View Profile
    • huertasurbanas
Re: Melicoccus Oliviformis a good alternative for Mamoncillos!
« Reply #22 on: December 12, 2017, 09:58:59 AM »
Thanks Federico for your info, I am a bit confused because here it says this:

http://arbolesdelchaco.blogspot.com.ar/2007/11/coquito-de-san-juan.html

"Melicoccus lepidopetalus Radlk. / Coquito de San Juan / Yvapovó
Sinónimos: Melicocca bijuga."

so, lepidopetalus and bijugatus are the same? or bijuga is not bijugatus?

and  for lepidopetalus you should have male and female trees to bear fruits?

ONLINE SHOP:

https://www.huertasurbanas.com/shop

30% Discount Coupon: FIRST

fsanchez2002

  • FedHomestead
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 184
    • Homestead, FL
    • View Profile
Re: Melicoccus Oliviformis a good alternative for Mamoncillos!
« Reply #23 on: December 12, 2017, 09:41:15 PM »
Thanks Federico for your info, I am a bit confused because here it says this:

http://arbolesdelchaco.blogspot.com.ar/2007/11/coquito-de-san-juan.html

"Melicoccus lepidopetalus Radlk. / Coquito de San Juan / Yvapovó
Sinónimos: Melicocca bijuga."

so, lepidopetalus and bijugatus are the same? or bijuga is not bijugatus?

and  for lepidopetalus you should have male and female trees to bear fruits?

Definitively a different species that bijugatus. See the reference here:

http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl1.1/record/tro-28600184

also leaves are totally different; I believe lepidopetalus name because leaves look like butterfly wings.

I believe all melicoccus are mostly dioecious, but there self-fertile MBijugatus and Raul says that MOliviformis is self-fertile. On the plus side, it should be fairly simple to airlayer female and male of these trees to complete the pairs.
Federico
Homestead, FL

Finca La Isla

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2129
    • Costa Rica, Southern Caribbean coast
    • View Profile
    • finca la isla
Re: Melicoccus Oliviformis a good alternative for Mamoncillos!
« Reply #24 on: December 14, 2017, 08:15:53 AM »

Here’s the photo of one of my four guaya trees. It’s almost 2m. Note the new foliage comes out orange/pink.
I have eaten the fruit in central Veracruz state and though similar to mamoncillo it is superior, sweeter. Peter