Author Topic: The Mystery of the “Himsagar” mango in Florida. Also, EBAY MANGO FRAUD EXPOSED!  (Read 23502 times)

Guanabanus

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Re: The Mystery of the “Himsagar” mango in Florida
« Reply #50 on: January 20, 2018, 06:15:17 PM »
There are several variations of Nam Docmai; many "Turpentines; many "Haden" (seedlings of 'Haden' called the real thing);  et cetera.

Just because a grower in India identifies a tree as a particular named variety does not automatically
mean that other growers all across India will necessarily agree with that identification.

I recall a lecture where Dr. Richard Campbell, responding to a question about 'Maha Chanok', answered, "Which one?!  I have THREE DIFFERENT "Maha Chanoks"."

IT IS NOT NECESSARY TO ALLEGE ANY RECENT MISBEHAVIOR OR CONFUSION as the source of such differences, as in fact, many regional variants of plant materials, independent origins of same names, adoption of attractive names heard from elsewhere, seedling propagation under variety names, and so on, have been going on for generations.
Har

noochka1

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Re: The Mystery of the “Himsagar” mango in Florida
« Reply #51 on: January 20, 2018, 08:59:35 PM »
There are several variations of Nam Docmai; many "Turpentines; many "Haden" (seedlings of 'Haden' called the real thing);  et cetera.

Just because a grower in India identifies a tree as a particular named variety does not automatically
mean that other growers all across India will necessarily agree with that identification.

I recall a lecture where Dr. Richard Campbell, responding to a question about 'Maha Chanok', answered, "Which one?!  I have THREE DIFFERENT "Maha Chanoks"."

IT IS NOT NECESSARY TO ALLEGE ANY RECENT MISBEHAVIOR OR CONFUSION as the source of such differences, as in fact, many regional variants of plant materials, independent origins of same names, adoption of attractive names heard from elsewhere, seedling propagation under variety names, and so on, have been going on for generations.

Hi Har,

I agree with your assessment. 
 
I personally have 11 plants from this vendor and, although I was furious initially, I've thought about it for a few days and come to the conclusion that, for better or worse, I now have 11 mystery trees.  They may be good cultivars; they may be bad.  They may even be the cultivars I was told they were. 

Worst case scenario, I've got some expensive root stock and an opportunity to brush up on my paltry grafting skills.  Best case scenario, I'm eating Indian mangoes in a couple of years.  Either way, I now have 11 additional varieties in my yard that I didn't have before and for me that can only be a good thing.

Scott

Squam256

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Re: The Mystery of the “Himsagar” mango in Florida
« Reply #52 on: January 20, 2018, 09:09:37 PM »
There are several variations of Nam Docmai; many "Turpentines; many "Haden" (seedlings of 'Haden' called the real thing);  et cetera.

Just because a grower in India identifies a tree as a particular named variety does not automatically
mean that other growers all across India will necessarily agree with that identification.

I recall a lecture where Dr. Richard Campbell, responding to a question about 'Maha Chanok', answered, "Which one?!  I have THREE DIFFERENT "Maha Chanoks"."

IT IS NOT NECESSARY TO ALLEGE ANY RECENT MISBEHAVIOR OR CONFUSION as the source of such differences, as in fact, many regional variants of plant materials, independent origins of same names, adoption of attractive names heard from elsewhere, seedling propagation under variety names, and so on, have been going on for generations.

If you bought grafted Nam Doc Mai trees from Zill HP Plants, then resold them to people as “”Langra” Mango from India, would you or would you not be committing fraud?

Because that’s what this eBay guy appears to be doing.

I’d say there’s a pretty big difference between that, and a nursery being provided budwood of a mislabeled variety from the Department of Agiriculture and propagating it under that name. The latter is an innocent mistake, but the former is not.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2018, 09:35:38 PM by Squam256 »

Guanabanus

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Re: The Mystery of the “Himsagar” mango in Florida
« Reply #53 on: January 20, 2018, 10:08:11 PM »
Squam, of course I agree with those points.

I was reacting to someone else's suggestion that 'Sonpari' from Zill's wasn't the true one because someone in India looked at a picture of leaves and made some sweeping negative statement.
Har

Squam256

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Re: The Mystery of the “Himsagar” mango in Florida
« Reply #54 on: January 20, 2018, 10:24:11 PM »
Squam, of course I agree with those points.

I was reacting to someone else's suggestion that 'Sonpari' from Zill's wasn't the true one because someone in India looked at a picture of leaves and made some sweeping negative statement.

I actually think the Son Pari from Zill is the real Son Pari based on pics of the fruit, along with this description from India which describes it pretty spot on:

http://www.nau.in/pagefiles/112_Mango%20hybrids.pdf

noochka1

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Re: The Mystery of the “Himsagar” mango in Florida
« Reply #55 on: January 20, 2018, 11:05:36 PM »
Squam,

To be clear, I am not furious anymore but that doesn't mean I don't want answers and a resolution. 

jbaqai

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Re: The Mystery of the “Himsagar” mango in Florida
« Reply #56 on: January 21, 2018, 01:03:07 PM »
Well in my case , I felt betrayed
Those Pakistani mango plants were getting special treatment

Brought them inside my master bedroom next to sunny windows for winter , and not to forget that they are in clay pot ( heavy ) and my bedroom is at first floor

And I don’t have to mentioned master bedroom = wife not happy

So all this effort for Florida mango:(
They should be out in greenhouse,with rest of my collection

Not fair

JF

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Re: The Mystery of the “Himsagar” mango in Florida
« Reply #57 on: January 21, 2018, 02:57:28 PM »
This is unfortunate I was recommended this seller as legit.
Behl is correct I’ve seen pix of the real sonpari and the leaves tell the story

Squam256

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Re: The Mystery of the “Himsagar” mango in Florida
« Reply #58 on: January 21, 2018, 03:05:27 PM »
This is unfortunate I was recommended this seller as legit.
Behl is correct I’ve seen pix of the real sonpari and the leaves tell the story

Let’s see photos of the leaves then.

JF

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Re: The Mystery of the “Himsagar” mango in Florida
« Reply #59 on: January 21, 2018, 03:10:57 PM »
This is unfortunate I was recommended this seller as legit.
Behl is correct I’ve seen pix of the real sonpari and the leaves tell the story

Let’s see photos of the leaves then.

I hope Behl shares then

noochka1

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Re: The Mystery of the “Himsagar” mango in Florida
« Reply #60 on: January 21, 2018, 05:49:19 PM »
OK, I'm confused now.  Which vendor and plants are we talking about?  The eBay guy didn't sell Son Pari - at least not to my knowledge.  Is the assertion now that a Son Pari plant from Zills is mis-identified? 

TnTrobbie

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Re: The Mystery of the “Himsagar” mango in Florida
« Reply #61 on: January 21, 2018, 08:07:06 PM »
I guess well see in 3-4years when they bear fruit. For the record, I ordered 3 trees from this vendor (Anwar, Sindhri, and Langra). When I got them, the Langra was consistent with the mature tree I had at another location. And the others didn't remind me of any cv. I'm familiar with- even Julie. I looked really hard. The grafts looked really clean though- like big nursery operation clean. Oh well...

I bought from him before Thanksgiving. Now I see he has sellling Banganapalle and Chaunsa. amd using the same "mature tree" photo for both cvs.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2018, 08:11:32 PM by TnTrobbie »
The Earth laughs in flowers. And bear gifts through fruits.
No where to plant it ...but at least I got it. ;)
F*ck squirrels and deers

Squam256

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Re: The Mystery of the “Himsagar” mango in Florida
« Reply #62 on: January 21, 2018, 08:42:11 PM »
I guess well see in 3-4years when they bear fruit. For the record, I ordered 3 trees from this vendor (Anwar, Sindhri, and Langra). When I got them, the Langra was consistent with the mature tree I had at another location. And the others didn't remind me of any cv. I'm familiar with- even Julie. I looked really hard. The grafts looked really clean though- like big nursery operation clean. Oh well...

I bought from him before Thanksgiving. Now I see he has sellling Banganapalle and Chaunsa. amd using the same "mature tree" photo for both cvs.

The grafts look clean because they’re T-buds. Guess who wholesells T-budded 1 gallon mangos....

noochka1

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Re: The Mystery of the “Himsagar” mango in Florida
« Reply #63 on: January 21, 2018, 08:56:40 PM »
I guess well see in 3-4years when they bear fruit. For the record, I ordered 3 trees from this vendor (Anwar, Sindhri, and Langra). When I got them, the Langra was consistent with the mature tree I had at another location. And the others didn't remind me of any cv. I'm familiar with- even Julie. I looked really hard. The grafts looked really clean though- like big nursery operation clean. Oh well...

I bought from him before Thanksgiving. Now I see he has sellling Banganapalle and Chaunsa. amd using the same "mature tree" photo for both cvs.

The grafts look clean because they’re T-buds. Guess who wholesells T-budded 1 gallon mangos....

Squam,

Have you had any opportunity to speak with that wholesaler?  I'd really like to know what I've got planted in my yard.

Squam256

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Re: The Mystery of the “Himsagar” mango in Florida
« Reply #64 on: January 21, 2018, 10:00:39 PM »
I guess well see in 3-4years when they bear fruit. For the record, I ordered 3 trees from this vendor (Anwar, Sindhri, and Langra). When I got them, the Langra was consistent with the mature tree I had at another location. And the others didn't remind me of any cv. I'm familiar with- even Julie. I looked really hard. The grafts looked really clean though- like big nursery operation clean. Oh well...

I bought from him before Thanksgiving. Now I see he has sellling Banganapalle and Chaunsa. amd using the same "mature tree" photo for both cvs.

The grafts look clean because they’re T-buds. Guess who wholesells T-budded 1 gallon mangos....

Squam,

Have you had any opportunity to speak with that wholesaler?  I'd really like to know what I've got planted in my yard.

Tomorrow if I have the time.

jbaqai

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Re: The Mystery of the “Himsagar” mango in Florida
« Reply #65 on: January 22, 2018, 12:31:14 AM »
May be let them know about this forums
It will be good to hear their part of the story

noochka1

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Re: The Mystery of the “Himsagar” mango in Florida
« Reply #66 on: January 22, 2018, 06:35:19 AM »
I guess well see in 3-4years when they bear fruit. For the record, I ordered 3 trees from this vendor (Anwar, Sindhri, and Langra). When I got them, the Langra was consistent with the mature tree I had at another location. And the others didn't remind me of any cv. I'm familiar with- even Julie. I looked really hard. The grafts looked really clean though- like big nursery operation clean. Oh well...

I bought from him before Thanksgiving. Now I see he has sellling Banganapalle and Chaunsa. amd using the same "mature tree" photo for both cvs.

The grafts look clean because they’re T-buds. Guess who wholesells T-budded 1 gallon mangos....

Squam,

Have you had any opportunity to speak with that wholesaler?  I'd really like to know what I've got planted in my yard.

Tomorrow if I have the time.

Thank you.  At least that will bring some resolution.

behlgarden

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Re: The Mystery of the “Himsagar” mango in Florida
« Reply #67 on: January 22, 2018, 12:20:36 PM »
Squam, of course I agree with those points.

I was reacting to someone else's suggestion that 'Sonpari' from Zill's wasn't the true one because someone in India looked at a picture of leaves and made some sweeping negative statement.

I actually think the Son Pari from Zill is the real Son Pari based on pics of the fruit, along with this description from India which describes it pretty spot on:

http://www.nau.in/pagefiles/112_Mango%20hybrids.pdf

If you dont mind sharing, can you please post pics of new growth that is tender, new growth, and old matured leaves? I know for fact that one we got from Zills/Noris does not look like the one from India, however I want to see how different is ours compared to yours. I am waiting on closeup shots from India for your knowledge and will post here once I receive it.

noochka1

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Re: The Mystery of the “Himsagar” mango in Florida
« Reply #68 on: January 22, 2018, 01:25:24 PM »
The National Mango Database has a lot of useful information and fruit/leaf photos of Indian and Pakistani varieties.  Here's a link.  I didn't notice Son Pari, but the list isn't alphabetical so I may have missed it:  http://mangifera.res.in/

JF

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Re: The Mystery of the “Himsagar” mango in Florida
« Reply #69 on: January 22, 2018, 01:40:23 PM »
My Fake Sonpari


Squam256

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Re: The Mystery of the “Himsagar” mango in Florida
« Reply #70 on: January 22, 2018, 02:41:28 PM »
I can now confirm that the trees GuavaKing is selling on eBay are fakes.

Enjoy your Alphonso, Julie and Nam doc Mai trees.

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Re: The Mystery of the “Himsagar” mango in Florida
« Reply #71 on: January 22, 2018, 02:48:03 PM »
I can now confirm that the trees GuavaKing is selling on eBay are fakes.

Enjoy your Alphonso, Julie and Nam doc Mai trees.

Alex this is actually from Noris

Squam256

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Re: The Mystery of the “Himsagar” mango in Florida
« Reply #72 on: January 22, 2018, 03:20:48 PM »
I can now confirm that the trees GuavaKing is selling on eBay are fakes.

Enjoy your Alphonso, Julie and Nam doc Mai trees.

Alex this is actually from Noris

I was talking about the Langra, Anwar Ratol, Chausa and Banganpalli trees being sold on ebay by the guy in Ormond Beach

noochka1

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Re: The Mystery of the “Himsagar” mango in Florida
« Reply #73 on: January 22, 2018, 03:26:50 PM »
I can now confirm that the trees GuavaKing is selling on eBay are fakes.

Enjoy your Alphonso, Julie and Nam doc Mai trees.
Thanks a lot for getting that information, Alex.  Even though the news totally sucks, it's better to know for sure.  I've filed with PayPal for a refund.

Squam256

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Re: The Mystery of the “Himsagar” mango in Florida
« Reply #74 on: January 22, 2018, 03:32:58 PM »
I can now confirm that the trees GuavaKing is selling on eBay are fakes.

Enjoy your Alphonso, Julie and Nam doc Mai trees.
Thanks a lot for getting that information, Alex.  Even though the news totally sucks, it's better to know for sure.  I've filed with PayPal for a refund.

No problem. Hopefully other people who were scammed by this guy can register complaints too. I’m notifying the Facebook Mango group as well.