Author Topic: Hurricane Preparedness  (Read 9378 times)

Mr. Clean

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Hurricane Preparedness
« on: May 09, 2012, 08:46:53 PM »
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« Last Edit: April 16, 2014, 01:32:58 PM by Mr. Clean »
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Re: Hurricane Preparedness
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2012, 08:51:59 PM »
lay them down. That's what I hear.

or shave their heads bald...so wind doesn't make them pull their hair out!
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Re: Hurricane Preparedness
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2012, 09:03:28 PM »

Cookie Monster

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Re: Hurricane Preparedness
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2012, 09:05:02 PM »
There's not much a nursery can do. Pretty hard to lay down 50k+ trees :-). I think they pretty much just hope for the best :-).

As for homeowners with established trees, the best defense is keeping them to a 12 to 15 foot height. Small, stout trees are less prone to toppling, and wind speeds 30 feet up are quite a bit stronger than nearer the ground.

Certain characteristics of trees are conducive to better wind resistance:

 - Trees with small leaves fare better (eg carambola, tamarind)
 - Trees with wider crotch angles / no included bark in crotches are less prone to breakage
 - Slower growing trees tend to have stronger wood (eg, sapodilla)

Windbreaks help. Wide open lots generally get hit hard due to lack of wind break. If you have a standard sized ~1/4 acre lot, getting your neighbors to plant trees helps to break up the wind on your lot.

Small, unestablished trees are basically defenseless. Staking them up can have negative consequences -- bark abrasions and lack of flexibility. With an unestablished tree, it's preferable for the tree to topple vs getting snapped in half.

There's also an element of 'luck' :-). For example, Wilma turned my 30+ year old sapodilla into an 8 foot high stump, while one of my neighbors' 40 foot tall Tommy Atkins with a thick canopy suffered no visible limb damage.

Hurricane Season is upon us (June 1 to November 30).  All 20+ of my fruit trees are new this year (in ground) from 3 gal to 7 gal trees. 

What do you do for hurricane preparedness?  What do nurseries with hundreds of potted trees do?
« Last Edit: May 09, 2012, 09:19:31 PM by Cookie Monster »
Jeff  :-)

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Re: Hurricane Preparedness
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2012, 09:34:52 PM »
Hurricane Season is upon us (June 1 to November 30).  All 20+ of my fruit trees are new this year (in ground) from 3 gal to 7 gal trees. 

What do you do for hurricane preparedness?  What do nurseries with hundreds of potted trees do?
Pray for a quiet season...and go out and invest in a home generator system (you know, reverse psychology...once you buy it you will never need to use it  ;D 8)).
« Last Edit: May 09, 2012, 10:52:24 PM by bsbullie »
- Rob

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Re: Hurricane Preparedness
« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2012, 10:40:05 PM »
For the homeowner and hobbiest, 3-7 gallon fruit trees are pretty replaceable so thats easy :)

Wilma ( and Frances) knocked over a bunch of my trees, (most of which where around 12-16 ft tall) and snapped my avocado in half. All of the knocked over trees were righted and they all survived.  Even the shredded banana came back.

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Re: Hurricane Preparedness
« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2012, 10:47:59 PM »
If an established tree "snaps in half" and has a shred stump... should I use a chainsaw to make the stump have a clean cut to help it "heal"?
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Tropicdude

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Re: Hurricane Preparedness
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2012, 10:49:44 PM »
If a big hurricane is bearing down on my location and I have small trees in the ground,  i would just cut them back. mango trees seem to be ok with this, heck if you have seen what I do to them, ( cut them just a a foot or so above graft line, and remove all leaves and branches ) and a month later they have new leaves. I think very little damage is possible if all you have coming out of the grown is a trunk. with maybe a few leafless branches.

by the way, I only have done this to transport them in my suitcase bare rooted.

Mr Clean, yep makes sense to clean up the nasty breaks, the tree will just think it was pruned or pugged, I read that its not good to seal mango tree cuts with that tree sealant stuff though.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2012, 10:53:47 PM by Tropicdude »
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Re: Hurricane Preparedness
« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2012, 10:55:13 PM »
Hurricane Season is upon us (June 1 to November 30).  All 20+ of my fruit trees are new this year (in ground) from 3 gal to 7 gal trees. 

What do you do for hurricane preparedness?  What do nurseries with hundreds of potted trees do?

I remember one nursery in Florida saying they layed all their small potted plants horizontally down on the ground under their benches. (Could be a mistake if the benches can easily topple over.) Also remember seeing photos of large greenhouse frames all tangled up like spaghetti. Really scary! Best preparedness is your choice of: one copy of Bible, Koran, Baghavad Gita, or Dharmapada, i.e. pray a lot!  ;) But seems like perimeter tall cement walls are also highly touted.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2012, 01:14:59 AM by fruitlovers »
Oscar

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Re: Hurricane Preparedness
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2012, 01:06:21 AM »
Just keeping the tree to 12 to 15 feet tall is no guarantee that it will emerge unscathed, but it's the best way of increasing your odds. Younger trees (~5 years old) that are (unpruned) in the 12 to 15 feet range will topple due to lack of strong root system, but they can be easily righted as you point out. Older (10+) year old trees that are pruned to stay 12 to 15 feet will not normally topple due to the extensive root system. But, if you let your trees grow to 25+ feet and they topple, it's game over as the tree will never be stable again. If you can keep the trees even smaller (a la Dr Campbell's mango bushes), then your odds are even better.

For the homeowner and hobbiest, 3-7 gallon fruit trees are pretty replaceable so thats easy :)

Wilma ( and Frances) knocked over a bunch of my trees, (most of which where around 12-16 ft tall) and snapped my avocado in half. All of the knocked over trees were righted and they all survived.  Even the shredded banana came back.
Jeff  :-)

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Re: Hurricane Preparedness
« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2012, 01:15:20 AM »
Hurricane Season is upon us (June 1 to November 30).  All 20+ of my fruit trees are new this year (in ground) from 3 gal to 7 gal trees. 

What do you do for hurricane preparedness?  What do nurseries with hundreds of potted trees do?

I remember one nursery in Florida saying they layed all their small potted plants horizontally down on the ground under their benches. (Could be a mistake if the benches can easily topple over.) Also remember seeing photos of large greenhouse frames all tangled up like spaghetti. Really scary! Best preparedness is your choice of: one copy of Bible, Koran, Baghavad Gite, or Dharmapada, i.e. pray a lot!  ;) But seems like perimeter tall cement walls are also highly touted.
All depends on the "type" of cane we are talking about.  On the East Coast of Sfla, or East Coast of Florida in general, we do not have the issue of the storm surge the Gulf Coast region has...however, cement walls would be no match for a storm the likes of what was seen in Miami-Dade and Monroe Counties in 1992.  Below is just one image of what Andrew did.





- Rob

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Re: Hurricane Preparedness
« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2012, 01:27:26 AM »
Hurricane Season is upon us (June 1 to November 30).  All 20+ of my fruit trees are new this year (in ground) from 3 gal to 7 gal trees. 

What do you do for hurricane preparedness?  What do nurseries with hundreds of potted trees do?

I remember one nursery in Florida saying they layed all their small potted plants horizontally down on the ground under their benches. (Could be a mistake if the benches can easily topple over.) Also remember seeing photos of large greenhouse frames all tangled up like spaghetti. Really scary! Best preparedness is your choice of: one copy of Bible, Koran, Baghavad Gite, or Dharmapada, i.e. pray a lot!  ;) But seems like perimeter tall cement walls are also highly touted.
All depends on the "type" of cane we are talking about.  On the East Coast of Sfla, or East Coast of Florida in general, we do not have the issue of the storm surge the Gulf Coast region has...however, cement walls would be no match for a storm the likes of what was seen in Miami-Dade and Monroe Counties in 1992.  Below is just one image of what Andrew did.




Wouldn't live there unless i had a cement bunker style house. Building wooden frame houses in hurricane alley is total madness in my opinion. Even in poorer areas like PR almost all the houses are made of cement blocks. I hope building code is getting a lot stricter in FL.?
Oscar

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Re: Hurricane Preparedness
« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2012, 01:48:08 AM »
Hurricane Season is upon us (June 1 to November 30).  All 20+ of my fruit trees are new this year (in ground) from 3 gal to 7 gal trees. 

What do you do for hurricane preparedness?  What do nurseries with hundreds of potted trees do?

I remember one nursery in Florida saying they layed all their small potted plants horizontally down on the ground under their benches. (Could be a mistake if the benches can easily topple over.) Also remember seeing photos of large greenhouse frames all tangled up like spaghetti. Really scary! Best preparedness is your choice of: one copy of Bible, Koran, Baghavad Gite, or Dharmapada, i.e. pray a lot!  ;) But seems like perimeter tall cement walls are also highly touted.
All depends on the "type" of cane we are talking about.  On the East Coast of Sfla, or East Coast of Florida in general, we do not have the issue of the storm surge the Gulf Coast region has...however, cement walls would be no match for a storm the likes of what was seen in Miami-Dade and Monroe Counties in 1992.  Below is just one image of what Andrew did.




Wouldn't live there unless i had a cement bunker style house. Building wooden frame houses in hurricane alley is total madness in my opinion. Even in poorer areas like PR almost all the houses are made of cement blocks. I hope building code is getting a lot stricter in FL.?
Many a home/buildings that were destroyed were not wood framed.  For the times, and based on results, codes were not strict enough.  Building codes were set to much higher standards after Andrew but in all honesty, most "new construction" homes/buildings (with block structure) and most current codes would not survive a storm packing sustained winds the likes of Andrew of over 165 mph for hours.
- Rob

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Re: Hurricane Preparedness
« Reply #13 on: May 10, 2012, 02:01:15 AM »

Many a home/buildings that were destroyed were not wood framed.  For the times, and based on results, codes were not strict enough.  Building codes were set to much higher standards after Andrew but in all honesty, most "new construction" homes/buildings (with block structure) and most current codes would not survive a storm packing sustained winds the likes of Andrew of over 165 mph for hours.

Still i think i would prefer to be inside of a cement structure during a hurricane than in a wood frame home, and i think most people would. You can experiment shooting a 2x4 into a cement wall versus shooting one into a wood structure.  ;) Some of the homes in PR and other Caribbean islands are much better built against hurricanes than those of wealthy Floridians! I don't get it?
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Re: Hurricane Preparedness
« Reply #14 on: May 10, 2012, 02:27:30 AM »
I have been through so many hurricanes I lost count, as for Andrew, I remember that trailer park by Krome , mostly Mexicans on work visa, many did die, that weren't in the official death toll.  I worked with Satellite dishes back then, and installed a dish for the National Guard the next day after the hurricane, there was a curfew, and we had to be escorted / monitored, needless to say the sergeant wasn't too happy keeping watch on us till 2 am.

In the D.R. down here most homes are cement block with poured cement slab roofs, this is why hurricanes do not do much damage to homes, but poorer houses are made from wood, and of course the shanty town areas have little defense.  Flooding kills most here as folks in the country tend to build their homes near rivers.  Hurricane David / TS Federico was the big double whammy back in 1979, it was actually Federico's 3 days of rain following Hurricane David, that killed the most people.

getting back to Andrew, I remember those homes made by that Disney company, Vista something, anyway they had below standard trusses, and almost every home in that new project was destroyed, yet homes across the street in another project, were mostly intact. its all about the roof, once you get a breach your in trouble.

Flooding from a storm surge, is the biggest danger of all, for Fla. I have seen old Black and white photos of when Hollywood, got hit by a hurricane, and it was under a few feet of water.  if something like that were to happen again, it would be like Katrina in LA.
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Re: Hurricane Preparedness
« Reply #15 on: May 10, 2012, 02:47:09 AM »
Experienced a direct hit cat 4 a few years ago. There was not a blade of grass to be seen on the island and lost a 50 year old 30 ft Guinup and any shrubs over six feet. Smaller newly planted fruit trees defoliated but all survived and a garden hose left laying in the yard was untouched.  Hat racking the tree would have saved it i believe. I plan on keeping everything pruned low and open and am encouraging root growth in all directions.  Have also planted wind break. House is stone and was ok but it took almost half of the roof and an unenclosed porch. Learned that lesson and enclosed new porch with no eaves.  Dave

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Re: Hurricane Preparedness
« Reply #16 on: May 10, 2012, 03:05:49 AM »



Keep those trees short,espalier and hack them back.There has been some nasty cyclones in my area in recent years with 2 Category 5's flogging communites in 5 years.Yasi was a katrina sized storm that came through  couple of years ago and knocked back fruit growing by years.

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Re: Hurricane Preparedness
« Reply #17 on: May 10, 2012, 06:33:31 AM »
Two things as to construction, yes, poorly constructed homes are more vulnerable.  This is why the damage from Charley, which was after Andrew, was so severe.  I also agree that some of the better constructed older (as much as 100 year old homes) will fare better than even new construction that meets/exceeds current codes.  There are a lot of amazingly constructed Conch Houses in the Florida Keys that have survived even the devastating 1935 Labor Day storm as well as homes the likes of Jamet Renos, which was built by her parents and is located waterfront on Key Biscayne.  Her 100 year old home survived Andrew with basically no damage, the new construction around hers was all but destroyed.  Also, we do have a number of hurricane "safe houses" built in SFla which have been specially designed and tested to basically survive armagedden.

As for storm surge, hes, that is usually the most devastating aspect however the surge on the East Coast of Florida will never match what is seen on the Gulf Coast of the US.  It has to do with the slope of the continental shelf.  It drops off sharply on the East Coast which prevents the massive surges they get on the Gulf Coast.   And as for Katrina and Louisiana, that was much more than storm surge.  That was their internal levee systems failing and flooding a city located BELOW sea level.
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Re: Hurricane Preparedness
« Reply #18 on: May 10, 2012, 04:50:05 PM »
Even a mild hurricane is enough to mess up everything!

I wonder how many people have made a fortune in selling fruits, being the last man standing with mangoes or lychee, etc..???

I know its happened in HI CA and FL, I'm sure!
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Re: Hurricane Preparedness
« Reply #19 on: May 10, 2012, 07:03:27 PM »
Even a mild hurricane is enough to mess up everything!

I wonder how many people have made a fortune in selling fruits, being the last man standing with mangoes or lychee, etc..???

I know its happened in HI CA and FL, I'm sure!

Nurseries outside of hurricane areas also make lots of money selling plants as replacements to people who's yards were devastated. I know that after hurricane in Guam (there i think they call them cyclones) i got lots of orders!
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Re: Hurricane Preparedness
« Reply #20 on: May 10, 2012, 07:20:45 PM »
No doubt. A lot of my trees got replaced after wilma. Ditto for Noel.

Nurseries outside of hurricane areas also make lots of money selling plants as replacements to people who's yards were devastated. I know that after hurricane in Guam (there i think they call them cyclones) i got lots of orders!
Jeff  :-)

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Re: Hurricane Preparedness
« Reply #21 on: May 10, 2012, 11:58:46 PM »
Even a mild hurricane is enough to mess up everything!

I wonder how many people have made a fortune in selling fruits, being the last man standing with mangoes or lychee, etc..???

I know its happened in HI CA and FL, I'm sure!

After Andrew some people were so desperate for replacement trees they would literally knock on doors, offering to buy tree in their yard, our neighbor was offered 10K for his big date palm.

I made out pretty well replacing those 10ft Satellite dishes, I was down in homestead installing 4-5 a day.  but the ones that made the most cash were clean up people and roofers. roofers were coming from other states, "lock" the sale, by making quick patches and getting deposit's from desperate homeowners, some of which ended up getting ripped off, others had to wait months.

Anyway, the way insurance works now, you can't just write a check like back then, plus other laws like having a local license and all that now exist.

As for the chances for where a cane can hit, its all about luck really, a cat 5  could hit WPB just as easily as Miami, its all about the driving wind currents.  Andrew predicted to make land fall on the Broward / Dade county line just hours before it hit, then it wobbled 40 miles south just at the last moment, it could have also wobbled north the same way.

In regards to flooding, yes New Orleans is a few inches  below sea level,  but most of the coast of Fla is still vulnerable to major floods,  with all our canals, and most of S. Fla, only 2-3 ft above sea level, imagine what a 15ft - 20ft storm surge can do.






From: http://pparker.org/hurricanes/1928_PalmBeach_Hurricane.htm

Quote
Damage in coastal Palm Beach County was severe especially in the Jupiter area where the eye wall of the hurricane persisted longer than at any other location because of where the storm crossed the coast. A storm surge around 10 feet with waves likely as high as 20 feet crashed into the barrier islands including Palm Beach.

Building damage hurricane in Palm Beach County after the 1928.
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Re: Hurricane Preparedness
« Reply #22 on: May 11, 2012, 12:33:49 AM »
Heard gumbo limbo was the only established tree you'd see in the area...because you can take 20ft cuttings!
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Re: Hurricane Preparedness
« Reply #23 on: June 25, 2013, 12:29:19 AM »
Hurricane season is upon us again.  Time to prune larger trees.
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Re: Hurricane Preparedness
« Reply #24 on: June 26, 2013, 05:38:43 AM »
And pruning isn't just to protect your houses.  The force of wind against a tree is going to be proportional to the surface area it presents and its drag coefficient.  Leaves are high drag and much larger surface area than twigs even when *not* facing the wind. 

Oh, and this doesn't help with plants, but does help with random large objects that you don't want blowing around: put them in your (full) swimming pool.  There's no wind at the bottom of a swimming pool.  ;)  I guess if you filled your pool with freshwater you might have some potted plants which could tolerate submersion (I've seen that jabo experiment here a while back, for example).  You'd have to clean your pool, but after a solid hurricane strike, that's pretty much a given anyway.
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Re: Hurricane Preparedness
« Reply #25 on: July 08, 2013, 03:57:17 PM »
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« Last Edit: April 16, 2014, 01:33:40 PM by Mr. Clean »
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