The Tropical Fruit Forum

Citrus => Citrus General Discussion => Topic started by: Laaz on May 27, 2019, 03:06:27 PM

Title: Butterflies...
Post by: Laaz on May 27, 2019, 03:06:27 PM
One of the worst pests for citrus. Period!
Title: Re: Butterflies...
Post by: Bomand on May 27, 2019, 08:09:07 PM
Yes and they are putting eggs on all new flush right now.......Malithion kills em
Title: Re: Butterflies...
Post by: Vlad on May 28, 2019, 12:08:11 AM
How can butterflies cause problems to citrus?
Title: Re: Butterflies...
Post by: Laaz on May 28, 2019, 01:57:02 AM
Yes and they are putting eggs on all new flush right now.......Malithion kills em

Indeed, I've been popping eggs as I see them & spraying the butterflies...
Title: Re: Butterflies...
Post by: Laaz on May 28, 2019, 02:00:27 AM
Yes and they are putting eggs on all new flush right now.......Malithion kills em

Indeed, I've been popping eggs as I see them & spraying the butterflies...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIgIoRMn0ig (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIgIoRMn0ig)
Title: Re: Butterflies...
Post by: Laaz on May 28, 2019, 02:01:07 AM
How can butterflies cause problems to citrus?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIgIoRMn0ig (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIgIoRMn0ig)
Title: Re: Butterflies...
Post by: Laaz on May 28, 2019, 01:07:50 PM
Vlad, the catapillars can strip a 5 gal. Container tree in a day.
Title: Re: Butterflies...
Post by: pvaldes on May 28, 2019, 05:16:02 PM
Wow, such a beautiful creature in any case

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papilio_aegeus#/media/File:Papilio_aegeus_7990.jpg (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papilio_aegeus#/media/File:Papilio_aegeus_7990.jpg)

Yup, definitely could sacrifice gladly some fruits for that:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGyPlZiEaLA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGyPlZiEaLA)
Title: Re: Butterflies...
Post by: Laaz on May 28, 2019, 05:17:20 PM
If the larve weren't so destructive....
Title: Re: Butterflies...
Post by: Bomand on May 28, 2019, 07:32:41 PM
Beautiful as they are I care for my citrus more than the ugly, destructive caterpillar stage of their development. Malithion puts a quick end to them.
Title: Re: Butterflies...
Post by: Yorgos on May 31, 2019, 03:47:31 PM
Are you referring to the giant swallowtail butterfly, papilio cresphontes? As common as they are around here I have never felt they are problem to my plants.  They have never stripped even a branch on the numerous citrus trees on my property. I enjoy them in all stages of their short life and beautiful life. 
Title: Re: Butterflies...
Post by: Laaz on May 31, 2019, 04:03:41 PM
Indeed, and if they haven't damaged your trees they haven't laid eggs in them.
Title: Re: Butterflies...
Post by: Yorgos on May 31, 2019, 04:09:48 PM
I see the larvae (caterpillars) all the time on my citrus but the damage is so miniscule there is no need of treatment. Wasps find them pretty quickly.  They are the greatest caterpillar hunters around. Few caterpillars evade them. I also grow dill and fennel plants for the black swallowtail butterflies that feed on them and wasps take them out quickly.
Title: Re: Butterflies...
Post by: Laaz on May 31, 2019, 04:18:05 PM
These things get bigger around than your thumb & twice as long. I've had them do major damage to my container citrus. You feed them all you like, I'll continue to kill them.
Title: Re: Butterflies...
Post by: Bomand on May 31, 2019, 07:26:20 PM
And I will help you to lower the population. They will seriously damage your citrus trees. Yea malithion.
Title: Re: Butterflies...
Post by: Laaz on May 31, 2019, 07:35:56 PM
Exactly.
Title: Re: Butterflies...
Post by: raggashack on June 01, 2019, 05:27:28 PM
lol the description of these caterpillars from laaz makes them look like nasty bad animals :D
i have no idea how many citrus plants u have, but putting some nets around the plants, just during the period the butterflies are laying their eggs,  is not a solution for you guys?? maybe at least around the small trees, if they have their size u have no chance anyway.
Title: Re: Butterflies...
Post by: Laaz on June 01, 2019, 05:56:28 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2tAuptMID0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2tAuptMID0)
Title: Re: Butterflies...
Post by: Laaz on June 01, 2019, 05:58:16 PM
I see them, I kill them!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMn4olUtoEc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMn4olUtoEc)
Title: Re: Butterflies...
Post by: Bomand on June 01, 2019, 06:56:16 PM
The eggs are laid on the new growth of citrus. Imagine of having a hundred trees with new cleft and bud grafts just starting to pop and finding that the nasty catapillars have eaten all the new growth. Enough to cause me to wage war on them in any manner possible. I hand destroy eggs when I find them and keep my citrus sprayed with chemical killer. I do not like my hard work destroyed by a bug I can control.
Title: Re: Butterflies...
Post by: pvaldes on June 02, 2019, 08:21:41 AM
This is a common error. Many of the "dead by poison" caterpillars were dead zombies yet. Poison kills the caterpillar and the parasitoid wasps that were inside many caterpillars. Result, "Y" caterpillars dead plus "20 Y" butterfly killers dead.

Unless everybody uses poison there, less wasps and more caterpillars will survive in the next years.

But If everybody uses malathion, some people will fall ill by chronic exposition. And if you just stop using poison, will suffer a exponential increase in butterflies by lack of predators the next years, forcing you to use poison again. Is a vicious circle.

I'm tired to explain this again and again, but frustrated people will do it anyway. Outraged people loves the idea of fair revenge and will spend money in tools for that.

Poison means that they are supporting, promoting, increasing the plague suffered in they own plants. Predators are hugely influential. First course of Basic ecology.
Title: Re: Butterflies...
Post by: Bomand on June 02, 2019, 08:34:36 AM
It is good that you are ecology minded. I also understand the impact of using chemical means to control pest. Lets face facts. Natural predators are in short supply for some pest. Natural predation is slow and ineffective lots of the time. The ugly catipillars are very fast when they ruin a tree. I want to stop them immediatly....and natural predation will not do it. Therefore I opt to destroy them chemically. Just think...if everhone destroyed them we would soon be rid of this pest.
Title: Re: Butterflies...
Post by: pvaldes on June 02, 2019, 08:38:49 AM
repeated, sorry
Title: Re: Butterflies...
Post by: Bomand on June 02, 2019, 09:10:54 AM
Dont be sorry. Everyone is entitled to and free to state their opinion. I respect the opinion other folks. I wish natural predation would do the job for me. If it would I would be glad to let nature take is course. Mean as mother nature is at times....she needs a little help on occasion
😉.
Title: Re: Butterflies...
Post by: raggashack on June 03, 2019, 03:24:56 PM
i will go with pvaldes way. i think it cant be coincidence that in europe, where ppl tend to work the organic way, are less serious pests than elsewhere.

but i also understand the opinion to sometimes help mother nature out, because its not very natural to plant citrus in pots anywhere u want, but i still think, even for these tasks the nature will find its way :D and no iam not a treehugger
Title: Re: Butterflies...
Post by: brian on June 16, 2019, 12:58:03 PM
This is the first time I've found one on my citrus.  No visible damage.. yet.   I was planning on getting rid of this tree anyway.

(https://i.imgur.com/R0kE2yk.jpg)
Title: Re: Butterflies...
Post by: Bomand on June 16, 2019, 01:02:06 PM
I do not know what it is....have not seen one...
Title: Re: Butterflies...
Post by: pvaldes on June 16, 2019, 01:09:21 PM
Almost identical to Papilio machaon caterpillar (many good memories breeding this common European species). Therefore probably in the same genus (or in the same species) and most probably will turn into a big and beautifuly butterly.

P. machaon does not eat citrus, but can feed on other Rutaceae if its main nutritious plant (Foeniculum) is unavailable
Title: Re: Butterflies...
Post by: Bomand on June 16, 2019, 01:52:28 PM
It is good that he does not eat citrus....If he wants to pupate that would be OK....but do not eat my hard work.
Title: Re: Butterflies...
Post by: Laaz on June 16, 2019, 01:57:26 PM
Squish it!
Title: Re: Butterflies...
Post by: pvaldes on June 16, 2019, 02:50:06 PM
No need to kill it. This caterpillar is clearly different from the Citrus eating species of Papilio. Definitely neither cresphontes nor thoas or aegeus fit. I did some research and it seems that European swallowtail is present in all Northern Hemisphere including also USA, therefore: Papilio machaon.

In America will feed on some wild Asteraceae (Petasites, Artemisia) and Apiaceae, and can eat also Ruta. No problem with any of those (Here are my free poisonous Hogweed, take all you can eat, thanks).

You can put it in a quiet box with some branches to pupate and wait.
Title: Re: Butterflies...
Post by: brian on June 16, 2019, 03:00:59 PM
I believe it is “Papilio polyxenes, the black swallowtail, American swallowtail or parsnip swallowtail, is a butterfly found throughout much of North America. “
Title: Re: Butterflies...
Post by: brian on June 16, 2019, 03:04:46 PM
The little black beetle on the bottom right is an immature spotted lanternfly, part if an outbreak in my area of pennsylvania that became newsworthy last year.  They suck tree sap.  No idea if they will attack my citrus or stone fruit trees.
Title: Re: Butterflies...
Post by: pvaldes on June 21, 2019, 06:21:33 AM
Is a very good candidate also...
Title: Re: Butterflies...
Post by: kumin on July 02, 2019, 05:49:12 AM
Brian, despite making a number of online searches, I haven't been able to determine that Citrus is a host of SLF. As I also reside in the affected area, I have been keeping a close eye on the nymphs this spring. To this point, although there are incidental SLFs on the Citrus, I am uncertain that they're feeding on Citrus.
Pecan, nightshade, apple, grapes, and especially tree of heaven are magnets for SLF.
Title: Re: Butterflies...
Post by: brian on July 02, 2019, 09:58:22 AM
Thanks, kumin.   I have seen japanese beetles crawling around on my citrus also but no leaf damage.  I think insects are inspecting them but deciding against eating them because they are foreign.  The deer never touched my citrus either despite eating everything else nearby.
Title: Re: Butterflies...
Post by: kumin on July 02, 2019, 12:11:46 PM
Spotted Lanternfly in feeding location on stem, but in resting posture. This is likely the last black/white coloration, the next instar should be red/white spotted.
This one is perched on a citrange. Hopefully they don't have an affinity for Citrus. The early nymph stages are less discerning as to plant host, with the later stages becoming increasingly selective. The infested area is increasing each year, autumn migration preceding egg-laying being one mode of spreading, along with egg masses getting hitchhike rides on vehicles over winter. The females lay eggs on any materials, not only trees.
(https://i.postimg.cc/9rq5r1tg/SLF-last-black-white-instar.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/9rq5r1tg)
Title: Re: Butterflies...
Post by: brian on July 02, 2019, 12:33:57 PM
So far I haven't noticed the lanternflies eating my citrus (nor anything else except scale).  Hope it stays that way.  I could net my greenhouse if I need to but I'd rather not.
Title: Re: Butterflies...
Post by: Laaz on July 02, 2019, 07:36:39 PM
Just squished the first lubber of the season... Grasshopper from hell!
Title: Re: Butterflies...
Post by: kumin on July 05, 2019, 04:27:36 PM
The Spotted Lanternfly are already entering the 4th instar red nymph stage. The next stage is flying adults. The first local adults arrived in October, 2018. At this point they appear unstoppable.
(https://i.postimg.cc/KRrFLr2y/SLF-4t-instar-red.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/KRrFLr2y)
Title: Re: Butterflies...
Post by: Laaz on July 05, 2019, 05:46:23 PM
I've never seen one of those down here.
Title: Re: Butterflies...
Post by: Bomand on July 05, 2019, 05:53:48 PM
Nor have I.
Title: Re: Butterflies...
Post by: brian on July 05, 2019, 07:58:02 PM
These are pretty much unique to southeastern pennsylvania for now.  Give it time, though, they will likely spread.
Title: Re: Butterflies...
Post by: kumin on July 05, 2019, 08:26:54 PM
SLF has been found in Winchester, VA northwest of Washington D.C. which is southwest of the initial discovery site in PA.
Title: Re: Butterflies...
Post by: kumin on August 30, 2019, 02:17:59 PM
The Spotted Lanternfly is apparently not able to suck plant sap forcefully. It selects a position on the stem at a certain distance from the growing tip. It then pierces the epidermis in the location where the stem is under positive sap pressure allowing the insect to freely drink the sap. Under heavy feeding the end of the stem will show wilting do to loss of turgor.
Title: Re: Butterflies...
Post by: Rex Begonias on August 30, 2019, 03:03:14 PM
Lol, seriously having that much issue with Giant Swallowtail caterpillars? 

I purposefully plant Hercules club and wild lime to attract them.  I have only a couple small citrus, have yet to see them on the citrus, but if I did, would probably just move em over to the Hercules club.

They’re a mighty awesome butterfly, can mistake one for a bird at first glance they’re so big.
Title: Re: Butterflies...
Post by: W. on August 30, 2019, 10:57:07 PM
I like butterflies, both in adult and leaf-munching immature forms. I have gulf fritillary caterpillars eating away on both my native Maypops out in the yard and my Lilikoi in a pot. If they get to be a problem on the latter, I will move them to the former. But I am not terribly bothered by a few leaves being eaten. Nothing has shown much interest in eating my container citrus scattered throughout my yard this summer. So I definitely do not feel the poisonous vitriol for caterpillars that some others feel.