New Mango Graft Issues/Disease...? MMD?

[FruitFreak]

The pictures are of some newly grafted mangoes that are exhibiting some form of distress of which Im not sure.  One or two is exhibiting symptoms that may look something similar to Mango Malformation Disease.  The local AG inspector tells me MMD is unusual and he is meeting me at the nursery tomorrow afternoon.

We in Southwest Florida have been experiencing a tremendous amount of rainfall and most of my new grafts were overcome with mold/fungus from moisture under the parafilm (I didn't have the time to baby them).

Thank you.
















The picture below really bothers me.  Does this look like MMD?

[Cookie Monster]

Spray the new grafts with a good copper fungicide.

[FruitFreak]

Spray the new grafts with a good copper fungicide.

Hey Jeff.  That's a good idea and I'll do that tomorrow evening, hopefully it won't rain.  In your valued opinion does this appear to be MMD?.

Thanks

[Cookie Monster]

I don't think it's MMD, but I don't have experience with it, so I can't say for sure.

The graft looks like anthracnose to me. We have been having a lot of fungal issues lately with this rain. I've been spraying nordox every 4 weeks, which has helped significantly. But, if you don't get it in time, the leaves will drop like that each time it tries to re-sprout. Depending on how big your operation is, you could use a mister (eg, the Solo 451) and cover the potted trees as fast as you can walk down the rows -- a few minutes for 1/4 acre of trees -- with a gallon or 2 of mix. Make sure to find a copper product that won't wash away with the rain. Nordox is incredibly rainfast.

I'm not sure what is ailing the other specimens, but the top one (with the curly leaves) could be some sort of nutrient deficiency. Osmocote with minors is magic for potted trees. You can either incorporate it into the mix or sprinkle it on top. I used to buy osmocote in 50 pound bags, which would last me a year or so (back when I had the nursery).

[shinzo]

The 3 first pictures look exactely like the new growths of my kent tree. Another person in this forum shared a similar mango symptoms lately, but i am still looking for the cause/solution for these small wilty leaves with non elongated stems. I sprayed twice with sulfur, i drenched with iron 2 months ago, i don't know if it was too late to show recovery signs for a 1 month later flushes or if iron and sulfur are simply not the solution, the fact is that no laer thant this week  i am still seeing new flushes with these symptoms

[FruitFreak]

I don't think it's MMD, but I don't have experience with it, so I can't say for sure.

The graft looks like anthracnose to me. We have been having a lot of fungal issues lately with this rain. I've been spraying nordox every 4 weeks, which has helped significantly. But, if you don't get it in time, the leaves will drop like that each time it tries to re-sprout. Depending on how big your operation is, you could use a mister (eg, the Solo 451) and cover the potted trees as fast as you can walk down the rows -- a few minutes for 1/4 acre of trees -- with a gallon or 2 of mix. Make sure to find a copper product that won't wash away with the rain. Nordox is incredibly rainfast.

I'm not sure what is ailing the other specimens, but the top one (with the curly leaves) could be some sort of nutrient deficiency. Osmocote with minors is magic for potted trees. You can either incorporate it into the mix or sprinkle it on top. I used to buy osmocote in 50 pound bags, which would last me a year or so (back when I had the nursery).

Excellent.  Will try to source some Nordox and Osmocote.  Nordox seems to be a little pricey but I'm sure its worth it considering how long a bag can last plus its effectiveness.  Man, I would love to have a mister it would save so much time and money.  I think I'm going to be stuck with my Stihl backpack sprayer for a couple more years.  I'll probably should repot the new grafts with better.  What type of Osmocote are you referring to as there seem to be a few different types?  Thanks!

[Cookie Monster]

I was just comparing notes with my trees today, and I believe the top pictures (with wavy leaves) to be a fungal issue (probably anthracnose). I think the majority of what you're seeing is fungal related, due to all this rainfall. You really need a good spray routine for the mango trees. Make sure to wear long sleeve shirt / long pants / face shield when you're applying copper, even if you're using an OMRI listed (organic) product.

As for osmocote, I was using Scotts 8 - 9 month (which really means 4 - 5 months in FL). It was their premium line product with minors (forget the name).

[palmtreeluke]

Marley,

Interested in to what the report was from the AG plant inspector?

last one is really funky looking!

[Vernmented]

I have an Angie in ground that has funky growth like that. It started shooting new growth and then quit with those little nubbies never turning into mature shoots. I'll post some pictures tomorrow. I am going to dig it up and move it soon so I will check the root system which I am sure was very rootbound. I wouldn't doubt that there are some serious nutrient deficiencies in the spot it is in. I'll post some pictures tomorrow. I am interested if the inspector had any ideas as well.

[Vernmented]

The little nubbins have been there for maybe 4 months. The single ugly new growth in the second picture is about a month old. There is good possibility of nutrient toxicity as well as deficiency but this just seems weird. I have a friend with an Angie from the same batch and his new growth looks like the second picture. He has his planted in sand with some mulch around it.

[Vernmented]

I could be as simple as it being too wet and rootbound.

[Cookie Monster]

The Angie has a scab infection. Get yourself a good fungicide and spray on a regular interval.

[Vernmented]

The Angie has a scab infection. Get yourself a good fungicide and spray on a regular interval.

Thanks!

[shinzo]

@ fruit freak : thanks to some members who posted their opinion on a similar case in this forum i think i found a hint to the problem on the first pictures of your first post (which is the same prob i am facing with my kent tree). Zinc deficiency.
Check this article of the florida state horticultural society i found on the net ;
http://fshs.org/proceedings-o/1940-vol-53/167-171%20(LYNCH).pdf

[FruitFreak]

I have an Angie in ground that has funky growth like that. It started shooting new growth and then quit with those little nubbies never turning into mature shoots. I'll post some pictures tomorrow. I am going to dig it up and move it soon so I will check the root system which I am sure was very rootbound. I wouldn't doubt that there are some serious nutrient deficiencies in the spot it is in. I'll post some pictures tomorrow. I am interested if the inspector had any ideas as well.

Unfortunately the inspector didn't have any specific diagnosis however he affirmed what Jeff was saying about copper treatments. 

[FruitFreak]

The little nubbins have been there for maybe 4 months. The single ugly new growth in the second picture is about a month old. There is good possibility of nutrient toxicity as well as deficiency but this just seems weird. I have a friend with an Angie from the same batch and his new growth looks like the second picture. He has his planted in sand with some mulch around it.

Thank you for posting your pictures.  This definitely looks like my new graft I was concerned about being MMD.  I guess all of our problems are related to fungus which thankfully can be treated by fungicide treatments.

The New growth with deteriorating leaves could be anthracnose...?

[palmcity]

Make sure to wear long sleeve shirt / long pants / face shield when you're applying copper, even if you're using an OMRI listed (organic) product.

I know I have drank water from copper pipes for many years as well as handing cents and now copper fungicides so I decided to look up copper uses and toxicities for our bodies.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper_in_health
1. Well, I found too little copper in the body can be a copper deficiency. Acquired copper deficiency has recently been implicated in adult-onset progressive myeloneuropathy[55] and in the development of severe blood disorders including myelodysplastic syndrome.[8][56][57]

Other conditions previously linked to copper deficiency include osteoporosis, osteoarthritis, rheumatoid arthritis, cardiovascular disease, colon cancer, and chronic conditions involving bone, connective tissue, heart, and blood vessels.[7][58][59][60][61]

A marginal (i.e., 'mild') copper deficiency, believed to be more widespread than previously thought, can impair human health in subtle ways.[51] Those affected suffer from lowered resistance to infection, general fatigue, impaired neurological function, and elevated risk for coronary heart disease and osteoporosis.[citation needed]


2. Copper Toxicity:::   While the cause and progression of Alzheimer's disease are not well understood,[citation needed] research indicates that, among several other key observations, iron,[68][69] aluminum,[70] and copper[71][72] accumulate in the brains of Alzheimer's patients

3. Dermal exposure was considered low risk in the chronic exposure category as far as I could tell:::Dermal exposure has not been associated with systemic toxicity but anecdotal reports of allergic responses may be a sensitization to nickel and cross-reaction with copper or a skin irritation from copper.[9] Workers exposed to high air levels of copper (resulting in an estimated intake of 200 mg Cu/d) developed signs suggesting copper toxicity (e.g., elevated serum copper levels, hepatomegaly).

4. Ingesting::: Hopefully none of us will drink the blue kool-aid...      Humans intentionally or accidentally ingesting high concentrations of copper salts (doses usually not known but reported to be 20–70 grams of copper), a progression of symptoms was observed including abdominal pain, headache, nausea, dizziness, vomiting and diarrhea, tachycardia, respiratory difficulty, hemolytic anemia, hematuria, massive gastrointestinal bleeding, liver and kidney failure, and death.

It is interesting that copper has some use as a possible antiinflammatory agent::: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2945467/

It's also interesting in that I don't know if I have too much copper and need to ingest or absorb more into my skin or too little copper in my body. (The same goes for my yards soil) (I see that cookie monster has tested his soil for copper in a prior post).   

[Squam256]

The little nubbins have been there for maybe 4 months. The single ugly new growth in the second picture is about a month old. There is good possibility of nutrient toxicity as well as deficiency but this just seems weird. I have a friend with an Angie from the same batch and his new growth looks like the second picture. He has his planted in sand with some mulch around it.

Thank you for posting your pictures.  This definitely looks like my new graft I was concerned about being MMD.  I guess all of our problems are related to fungus which thankfully can be treated by fungicide treatments.

The New growth with deteriorating leaves could be anthracnose...?

The fungus affecting the new growth is foliage scab, of which some pretty nasty strains now exist in south Florida and Angie is particularly susceptible to them in more humid interior areas. Keitt is also pretty susceptible.

[Cookie Monster]

Copper pipes are OK (water is likely not corrosive enough to cause any appreciable movement of copper ions). I don't know enough about copper vs the body to say whether or not harm would be caused by copper absorption through the skin, but the labels all require protective gear. In my younger days, I would have just ignored the warnings, but now I've adopted the better-safe-than-sorry mindset :-).

I know I have drank water from copper pipes for many years as well as handing cents and now copper fungicides so I decided to look up copper uses and toxicities for our bodies.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper_in_health
1. Well, I found too little copper in the body can be a copper deficiency. Acquired copper deficiency has recently been implicated in adult-onset progressive myeloneuropathy[55] and in the development of severe blood disorders including myelodysplastic syndrome.[8][56][57]

Other conditions previously linked to copper deficiency include osteoporosis, osteoarthritis, rheumatoid arthritis, cardiovascular disease, colon cancer, and chronic conditions involving bone, connective tissue, heart, and blood vessels.[7][58][59][60][61]

A marginal (i.e., 'mild') copper deficiency, believed to be more widespread than previously thought, can impair human health in subtle ways.[51] Those affected suffer from lowered resistance to infection, general fatigue, impaired neurological function, and elevated risk for coronary heart disease and osteoporosis.[citation needed]


2. Copper Toxicity:::   While the cause and progression of Alzheimer's disease are not well understood,[citation needed] research indicates that, among several other key observations, iron,[68][69] aluminum,[70] and copper[71][72] accumulate in the brains of Alzheimer's patients

3. Dermal exposure was considered low risk in the chronic exposure category as far as I could tell:::Dermal exposure has not been associated with systemic toxicity but anecdotal reports of allergic responses may be a sensitization to nickel and cross-reaction with copper or a skin irritation from copper.[9] Workers exposed to high air levels of copper (resulting in an estimated intake of 200 mg Cu/d) developed signs suggesting copper toxicity (e.g., elevated serum copper levels, hepatomegaly).

4. Ingesting::: Hopefully none of us will drink the blue kool-aid...      Humans intentionally or accidentally ingesting high concentrations of copper salts (doses usually not known but reported to be 20–70 grams of copper), a progression of symptoms was observed including abdominal pain, headache, nausea, dizziness, vomiting and diarrhea, tachycardia, respiratory difficulty, hemolytic anemia, hematuria, massive gastrointestinal bleeding, liver and kidney failure, and death.

It is interesting that copper has some use as a possible antiinflammatory agent::: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2945467/

It's also interesting in that I don't know if I have too much copper and need to ingest or absorb more into my skin or too little copper in my body. (The same goes for my yards soil) (I see that cookie monster has tested his soil for copper in a prior post).

[Cookie Monster]

Yep. My angie seems to be the most susceptible tree of the 20 or so cultivars on my property. The O-2 (peach cobbler) also got hit pretty hard (before I yanked it :-). Keitt gets it, but not quite as bad as angie.

You really can't grow mangoes inland without a comprehensive fungicide treatment plan, unless you stick to the most bullet proof varieties.

The fungus affecting the new growth is foliage scab, of which some pretty nasty strains now exist in south Florida and Angie is particularly susceptible to them in more humid interior areas. Keitt is also pretty susceptible.