Author Topic: Butia ssp (Read 12574 times)

Felipe · « **on:** March 28, 2012, 06:15:12 PM »

Dear friends,

we have discussed many fruiting species so far, but never talked about Butia palms. I once tried fruit of Butia parayaguensis in the botanical garden of Tenerife and I really liked them! Very tasty! Unfortunatelly I was that day more focussed in eating fruit then in saving seeds. Right now I'm looking for seeds (or plants) and I'm wondering if other species also produce tasty fruits...

HMHausman · « **Reply #1 on:** March 28, 2012, 06:22:12 PM »

I was at an office plaza in Orlando, FL in 1995. In the court yard, there was an incredible fruiting palm, planted as a centerpiece. I tried the fruit and liked it. I brought home seed and eventually planted one of the seedlings out in my yard. I'll post a picture of it later.....but I am sad to say that it has not flowered as of yet. I'm not a big palm person, but this was really a spectacular sight. I was calling this Jelly Palm from my research. I thought it was butia capitata.

Harry

Pancrazio · « **Reply #2 on:** March 28, 2012, 06:36:38 PM »

Butia capitata is pretty common here, but i never heard about seeds being palatable!

It is also pretty hardy, at least for this forum's standards.

Felipe · « **Reply #3 on:** March 28, 2012, 06:44:01 PM »

Quote from: Pancrazio on March 28, 2012, 06:36:38 PM

Butia capitata is pretty common here, but i never heard about seeds being palatable!
It is also pretty hardy, at least for this forum's standards.

Pan, I don't mean the seeds, but the fruit...

nullzero · « **Reply #4 on:** March 28, 2012, 07:57:01 PM »

I am growing Butia capitata in a 5 gal container right now. Its doing pretty well in the 5/1/1 mix. Butia capitata parent plant, was a tasty pina colada flavor (fiber and smaller pulp to flesh ratio, are the only negatives of the fruit), I ate some at a past CRFG fruit festival.

fruitlovers · « **Reply #5 on:** March 28, 2012, 11:18:42 PM »

Hi Felipe, my understanding is that all of the Butia species are edible. Somehow the capitata became the most common in USA. The fruits from some capitata trees are very nice and big with a sweet tart candy like taste, others small and tart, so there is a lot of variation. The only other Butia spcies i'm growing is Butia yatay, from Argentina. Hasn't fruited yet, it's been a very slow grower, slower than the capitata. My capitata has fruited a few times already. BTW, i find that butia seeds are difficult to germinate.
Oscar

bsbullie · « **Reply #6 on:** March 29, 2012, 07:37:53 AM »

Quote from: nullzero on March 28, 2012, 07:57:01 PM

I am growing Butia capitata in a 5 gal container right now. Its doing pretty well in the 5/1/1 mix. Butia capitata parent plant, was a tasty pina colada flavor (fiber and smaller pulp to flesh ratio, are the only negatives of the fruit), I ate some at a past CRFG fruit festival.

How old is your seedling. As Oscar said, Butias are slow growers...hope you have a lot of patience.

bsbullie · « **Reply #7 on:** March 29, 2012, 07:39:25 AM »

Quote from: fruitlovers on March 28, 2012, 11:18:42 PM

Hi Felipe, my understanding is that all of the Butia species are edible. Somehow the capitata became the most common in USA. The fruits from some capitata trees are very nice and big with a sweet tart candy like taste, others small and tart, so there is a lot of variation. The only other Butia spcies i'm growing is Butia yatay, from Argentina. Hasn't fruited yet, it's been a very slow grower, slower than the capitata. My capitata has fruited a few times already. BTW, i find that butia seeds are difficult to germinate.
Oscar

Butias are all over Gainesville, Florida. I agree with you in the variability of the fruit quality. Taste and size were all over the board.

sultry_jasmine_nights · « **Reply #8 on:** March 29, 2012, 11:14:44 AM »

Butia capitata are pretty common where I am in NE FL. A lot of people make jelly with the fruit due to its tartness. It is a little bit cold hardier than some palms. I've seen it all over Louisiana as well when we used to live there. It is nicknamed the Jelly Palm

nullzero · « **Reply #9 on:** March 29, 2012, 11:17:59 AM »

Bsbullie,

I got the seedling in August 2010, it was probably about 6-12 months old by that time. So it would be safe to say 2 years and 6 months old or so. It does grow on the slow side, however I have noticed increased growth rate in the last year. Hoping it bears fruit maybe in another 2-3 years.

It seems that Butia sp. could improve greatly with some breeding focus. Since the tree is popular in landscaping, selection could be done a lot easier.

HMHausman · « **Reply #10 on:** March 29, 2012, 11:55:44 AM »

Quote from: nullzero on March 29, 2012, 11:17:59 AM

I got the seedling in August 2010, it was probably about 6-12 months old by that time. So it would be safe to say 2 years and 6 months old or so. It does grow on the slow side, however I have noticed increased growth rate in the last year. Hoping it bears fruit maybe in another 2-3 years.

Hope is a wonderful thing. I hope your hope is not disappointed....but I wouldn't be holding my breath on a 2-3 year period of time.....if my tree is any indication. Maybe yours will set a record....but from my limited observations and undertanding, these trees have to get quite large before they bloom and produce fruit. My tree has to have at least a 10" in diameter trunk. And, it still hasn't bloomed after 17 years.

Harry

nullzero · « **Reply #11 on:** March 29, 2012, 12:07:53 PM »

Quote from: HMHausman on March 29, 2012, 11:55:44 AM

Quote from: nullzero on March 29, 2012, 11:17:59 AM
I got the seedling in August 2010, it was probably about 6-12 months old by that time. So it would be safe to say 2 years and 6 months old or so. It does grow on the slow side, however I have noticed increased growth rate in the last year. Hoping it bears fruit maybe in another 2-3 years.

Hope is a wonderful thing. I hope your hope is not disappointed....but I wouldn't be holding my breath on a 2-3 year period of time.....if my tree is any indication. Maybe yours will set a record....but from my limited observations and undertanding, these trees have to get quite large before they bloom and produce fruit. My tree has to have at least a 10" in diameter trunk. And, it still hasn't bloomed after 17 years.

Harry

I guess I am being overly optimistic, 2-3 inch diameter trunk right now. Maybe 6-10 years or so then. I was just throwing out a guess, it seems this palm is on a different level of bearing age.

Pancrazio · « **Reply #12 on:** March 29, 2012, 02:24:20 PM »

Quote from: Felipe on March 28, 2012, 06:44:01 PM

Pan, I don't mean the seeds, but the fruit...

Lol i also meant the fruit, but somehow i wrote the seed... well.. it was late night here...

bsbullie · « **Reply #13 on:** March 29, 2012, 04:17:41 PM »

Quote from: nullzero on March 29, 2012, 12:07:53 PM

Quote from: HMHausman on March 29, 2012, 11:55:44 AM
Quote from: nullzero on March 29, 2012, 11:17:59 AM
I got the seedling in August 2010, it was probably about 6-12 months old by that time. So it would be safe to say 2 years and 6 months old or so. It does grow on the slow side, however I have noticed increased growth rate in the last year. Hoping it bears fruit maybe in another 2-3 years.

Hope is a wonderful thing. I hope your hope is not disappointed....but I wouldn't be holding my breath on a 2-3 year period of time.....if my tree is any indication. Maybe yours will set a record....but from my limited observations and undertanding, these trees have to get quite large before they bloom and produce fruit. My tree has to have at least a 10" in diameter trunk. And, it still hasn't bloomed after 17 years.

Harry

I guess I am being overly optimistic, 2-3 inch diameter trunk right now. Maybe 6-10 years or so then. I was just throwing out a guess, it seems this palm is on a different level of bearing age.

Butias are very slow growing. As Harry said, yours is a ways away from fruiting. Patience will be required with that baby.

nullzero · « **Reply #14 on:** March 29, 2012, 04:42:11 PM »

Its hard to find resources about fruiting age on Butia online, its good to have first hand experiences and accounts of this tree. Thanks for all the input guys

.

fruitlovers · « **Reply #15 on:** March 29, 2012, 04:51:48 PM »

Quote from: bsbullie on March 29, 2012, 07:39:25 AM

Butias are all over Gainesville, Florida. I agree with you in the variability of the fruit quality. Taste and size were all over the board.

Don't know how stable strains of Butia with good fruit characteristics would be developed? Palms can't be grafted. From seed there will always be variability. So i guess only way would be tissue culture?
Oscar

nullzero · « **Reply #16 on:** March 29, 2012, 05:07:10 PM »

Quote from: fruitlovers on March 29, 2012, 04:51:48 PM

Quote from: bsbullie on March 29, 2012, 07:39:25 AM

Butias are all over Gainesville, Florida. I agree with you in the variability of the fruit quality. Taste and size were all over the board.

Don't know how stable strains of Butia with good fruit characteristics would be developed? Palms can't be grafted. From seed there will always be variability. So i guess only way would be tissue culture?
Oscar

Looks like tissue culture is the way to go? http://www.asd-cr.com/paginas/english/tissue_culture.html

Was thinking also a hybrid cross of 2 Butia (selecting good fruiting parents), that perhaps may give good fruiting off spring.

fruitlovers · « **Reply #17 on:** March 29, 2012, 05:52:56 PM »

Don't know if TC has ever been done with Butia species? If not a whole new protocol would need to be developed for it. But i guess it would be the only way to guarantee good quality fruits. Also because Butias are slow growing TC would probably slow the process of propagaating them even more.
Oscar

FloridaGreenMan · « **Reply #18 on:** March 29, 2012, 08:51:02 PM »

Central Florida is full of large Butia Capitata palms in yards and most people have no idea they are edible. I have sampled fruits from many Jelly palms and some have a very nice apricot-pineapple flavor while others are dry and bland. The good ones are very desirable and I would love to have a fruiting one in my yard but no way can I wait for 12 or 15 years! I do have a ten year old Butia in a pot that is beautiful but has not flowered.

FlyingFoxFruits · « **Reply #19 on:** March 29, 2012, 08:53:50 PM »

Ya,

I see butia all over, and have only tasted one that doesn't have the nasty taste, I can't even describe...taste like smell of sweaty people in elevator. I hate them.

BTW FLgreenman..Nice new profile pic...meyers lemons?? nice harvest!

HMHausman · « **Reply #20 on:** March 29, 2012, 09:16:46 PM »

Quote from: Anikulapo on March 29, 2012, 08:53:50 PM

Ya,

I see butia all over, and have only tasted one that doesn't have the nasty taste, I can't even describe...taste like smell of sweaty people in elevator. I hate them.

BTW FLgreenman..Nice new profile pic...meyers lemons?? nice harvest!

Hmmmm.......strange......I tasted one tree's fruit and thought it was pretty darned good. And, I consider myself very fussy. So, I must have been very, very lucky to have tasted the one I did. I do not do sweaty elevator people fruit....for absolute certain.

Harry

fruitlovers · « **Reply #21 on:** March 29, 2012, 09:39:39 PM »

Quote from: FloridaGreenMan on March 29, 2012, 08:51:02 PM

Central Florida is full of large Butia Capitata palms in yards and most people have no idea they are edible. I have sampled fruits from many Jelly palms and some have a very nice apricot-pineapple flavor while others are dry and bland. The good ones are very desirable and I would love to have a fruiting one in my yard but no way can I wait for 12 or 15 years! I do have a ten year old Butia in a pot that is beautiful but has not flowered.

Butia capitata is very common for landscaping also in California, and that is where i first tasted them. As a kid i thought they tasted like the Sweet tart candies. If you buy a plant from a nursery in a 2 gallon container, and they are usually quite cheap, you can get fruits in 4-5 years. Not bad at all and a very attractive plant.
Oscar

FloridaGreenMan · « **Reply #22 on:** March 29, 2012, 10:03:50 PM »

Quote from: Anikulapo on March 29, 2012, 08:53:50 PM

Ya,

I see butia all over, and have only tasted one that doesn't have the nasty taste, I can't even describe...taste like smell of sweaty people in elevator. I hate them.

BTW FLgreenman..Nice new profile pic...meyers lemons?? nice harvest!

Those are not Meyer Lemons but they are Marisa Abius!

Guanabanus · « **Reply #23 on:** March 29, 2012, 10:07:12 PM »

Butia species are mild temperate and subtropical. I have seen beautiful large ones in peoples' yards along the back roads in southwest Georgia.

I like eating Butiá.

The top expert is Dr. Larry Noblick, Palm Biologist at the Montgomery Botanical Center, near Fairchild Tropical Garden. His specialty is South American palms south of the Amazon.

Joshua_TX · « **Reply #24 on:** March 30, 2012, 12:28:18 AM »

I had wanted to grow out some Butia for their fruit for a while but didn't like the sound of waiting a decade only to possibly find the fruits subpar. I wanted to start out with likely good genetics. I found out about some guy named Dennis Sharmahd in Escondido, CA who has a couple selections of fruiting Butias and contacted him. Dennis finds trees with exceptional fruit and grows their seed. He told me he has gone to Brazil three times to the native habitat to look for superior tasting trees but all the best fruiting Butia he has found were in California. He has a couple different selections, what I remember was him saying he had one he compared to mango that he called 'mango', one he thought tasted like passionfruit he called 'pacific passion', and another mango-ish one he called 'mango 2' I think? I questioned if they were Butia capitata or another Butia, perhaps Butia eriospatha, he didn't sound sure but said they may well be B. eriospatha. He said around 7 years to fruit if in ground, the palms really want to be planted in the earth and grow much faster in ground than in pots. He said they are self-fertile but produce better with cross-pollination. I got two seedlings of the 'mango' and two of 'pacific passion'. Also got a pomegranate as he had a number of pomegranate selections he made, he had different species of fruiting cacti as well but said they were too tender for my climate. I know having good parentage probably doesn't guarantee me anything but they were cheap and I think it was worth it.

I have the palms in 5 gallon pots, they are starting to grow pinnate leaves and are about the size and age of nullzero's palm. They seem to grow fastest in the cool of fall. I don't know why but out of my whole garden they are one of my favorite plants I have, I'm psyched about them for some reason. Cool plants.

fruitlovers · « **Reply #25 on:** March 30, 2012, 04:23:26 AM »

Quote from: Joshua_TX on March 30, 2012, 12:28:18 AM

I had wanted to grow out some Butia for their fruit for a while but didn't like the sound of waiting a decade only to possibly find the fruits subpar. I wanted to start out with likely good genetics. I found out about some guy named Dennis Sharmahd in Escondido, CA who has a couple selections of fruiting Butias and contacted him. Dennis finds trees with exceptional fruit and grows their seed. He told me he has gone to Brazil three times to the native habitat to look for superior tasting trees but all the best fruiting Butia he has found were in California. He has a couple different selections, what I remember was him saying he had one he compared to mango that he called 'mango', one he thought tasted like passionfruit he called 'pacific passion', and another mango-ish one he called 'mango 2' I think? I questioned if they were Butia capitata or another Butia, perhaps Butia eriospatha, he didn't sound sure but said they may well be B. eriospatha. He said around 7 years to fruit if in ground, the palms really want to be planted in the earth and grow much faster in ground than in pots. He said they are self-fertile but produce better with cross-pollination. I got two seedlings of the 'mango' and two of 'pacific passion'. Also got a pomegranate as he had a number of pomegranate selections he made, he had different species of fruiting cacti as well but said they were too tender for my climate. I know having good parentage probably doesn't guarantee me anything but they were cheap and I think it was worth it.

I have the palms in 5 gallon pots, they are starting to grow pinnate leaves and are about the size and age of nullzero's palm. They seem to grow fastest in the cool of fall. I don't know why but out of my whole garden they are one of my favorite plants I have, I'm psyched about them for some reason. Cool plants.

Hi Joshua,
I know Dennis from way back in San Diego. He also travels sometimes here to the Big Island. What you say is very interesting. I'll have to talk to him about it next time i meet up with him. About him finding better tasting varieties in California than Brazil, keep in mind that his travels in Brazil are a few weeks, or at most months long, so likelihood of finding something superior is very low, compared to living and exploring California for many years, unless you know people there in Brazil that can direct you to the best places and specimens.
Oscar

Joshua_TX · « **Reply #26 on:** March 30, 2012, 07:43:00 AM »

Quote from: fruitlovers on March 30, 2012, 04:23:26 AM

About him finding better tasting varieties in California than Brazil, keep in mind that his travels in Brazil are a few weeks, or at most months long, so likelihood of finding something superior is very low, compared to living and exploring California for many years, unless you know people there in Brazil that can direct you to the best places and specimens.

I completely agree. Brazil is a powerhouse of biodiversity and he is a foreigner, and it is probably absurd to think that California happened to get the truly superior fruiting Butias by chance when the were brought over to grow as ornamental trees. I was just trying to past along the parts of our discussion I could recall.

nullzero · « **Reply #27 on:** March 30, 2012, 11:08:13 AM »

Joshua and Oscar,

The Butia I listed a picture of is actually a seedling from Dennis, the fruit like I said tasted like pina colada. I am glad you posted this Joshua, I may have to contact Dennis for picking up another seedling or two.

fruitlovers · « **Reply #28 on:** March 30, 2012, 03:53:40 PM »

Quote from: Joshua_TX on March 30, 2012, 07:43:00 AM

Quote from: fruitlovers on March 30, 2012, 04:23:26 AM
About him finding better tasting varieties in California than Brazil, keep in mind that his travels in Brazil are a few weeks, or at most months long, so likelihood of finding something superior is very low, compared to living and exploring California for many years, unless you know people there in Brazil that can direct you to the best places and specimens.

I completely agree. Brazil is a powerhouse of biodiversity and he is a foreigner, and it is probably absurd to think that California happened to get the truly superior fruiting Butias by chance when the were brought over to grow as ornamental trees. I was just trying to past along the parts of our discussion I could recall.

Butias also spread far and wide into Argentina, Uruguay, and Paraguay.
Oscar

Jackfruitwhisperer69 · « **Reply #29 on:** April 06, 2012, 02:59:11 PM »

Hi Felipe,

Why don't you ask the ''Palmetum de Santa Cruz de Tenerife'', if they have the palm that you are looking for!!! They have the biggest palm collection in Europe!
You might be lucky

Felipe · « **Reply #30 on:** April 06, 2012, 05:07:05 PM »

Hi Steven,

I already asked the curator of the Palmetum. He told me there is a great variation in fruit quality among butias. He also said, if well fertilized, the plams can fruit after 5 years. I thought it would take much longer. He told me I could get palms for a cheap price here:

http://www.viverossubtropicales.com

I want to get this species:
BUTIA ERIOSPATHA
BUTIA ODORATA
BUTIA YATAI
BUTIA PARAYAGUENSIS

Jackfruitwhisperer69 · « **Reply #31 on:** April 07, 2012, 06:50:53 AM »

Problem solved neighbour

These palms are well suited for the Canary Islands! You better pamber them!!! or they will take a decade to produce

Buena Suerte, Amigo

I might say...the website you shared is great!!! it even has my favorite palm the Areca vestiaria or Red Crownshaft Palm!!! Thanks for sharing!!!

Felipe · « **Reply #32 on:** April 07, 2012, 10:10:50 AM »

Yes Steven, this site is great! So great, that now I want my own palmetum... lol

I also asked the curator, if this genus does well in our climate. He said they grow like weeds!

Jackfruitwhisperer69 · « **Reply #33 on:** April 08, 2012, 07:28:53 AM »

Quote from: Felipe on April 07, 2012, 10:10:50 AM

Yes Steven, this site is great! So great, that now I want my own palmetum... lol

I also asked the curator, if this genus does well in our climate. He said they grow like weeds!

Neighbour...time is of the essence!!! You better make a Palmetum and I will be first in the chew to visit ''Butias de Felipe'' or ''Palmetum de Felipe'' lol

Ofcourse they will flourish in your climate!!!!

News:

Author Topic: Butia ssp (Read 12574 times)