A tale of two mangoes: of the Po Pyu Kalay variety + Excalibur Nursery review`

[zands]

Po Pyu Kalay price for both mangoes is identical $35 at my local Coral Springs Florida Home Depot (selling mangoes from Pine Island nursery of Florida) and Excalibur Nursery in Lake Worth Florida (Wikipedia: Excalibur is the legendary sword of King Arthur, sometimes attributed with magical powers or associated with the rightful sovereignty of Great Britain)

 Finally got to the famous Excalibur nursery a few days ago and bought a Po Pyu Kalay mango. Excalibur is 50 miles away from me. Here are some comparison photos of a Home Depot Po Pyu Kalay that comes from Pine Island nursery and the Excalibur Po Pyu Kalay which they graft their own. They used to buy from Zill but now graft their own
 
 Excalibur is a trip. Robert was the guy who zipped me around in a golf cart to three different locations where they had Po Pyu Kalay of varying sizes. Robert is very bilingual (English Spanish if that helps anyone) When it came time to pay...Business was transacted under a tent in front of a house. Cash and check only no credit cards. They had a few sapodilla fruits which Robert said "Go ahead and take them for free" as part of the Po Pyu Kalay purchase.
 
 Excalibur is very spread out on two sides of a street. They have the hugest mangoes I have ever seen in a pot. Huge pots 6 feet across. Robert said they bring a little "Cat" to the buyers site to excavate for such trees.
 
 They had a bunch of new variety mangoes labeled "Cat" on the pot. Robert said this was code for the new Cocker mango??...if I got him right. Those were nice looking 3 gallon trees so rush up there and get one if you want one. They looked vigorous with thick trunks. Squam256 has commented that they are the new "Cat Chu" mango.  Very fine specimens that I happened to see only because they were next to the best bunch of Po Pyu Kalay from which I picked mine
 

  (The well known Pine Island tag)


  (Comparison of trunk thickness. I am holding the Pine Island trunk))



  (Pine Island graft)


   (Excalibur graft)

  (mangoes side by side)





  (Excalibur on the left)

[mangomandan]

Did he tell you anything about that new mango?  We are hungry for info.

[Squam256]

I got one called 'Cat Chu' today. Could be that.

Honestly, I don't even know what most of the stuff I got from them even is.

For example, I picked up a mango today labelled both 'Obson' and also 'Hobson' on the tag. Richard called it a 'Hobson'. I am presuming (hoping) this is actually a mis-labelling of 'Hodson', which is supposed to be a good mango.

[Tropicalgrower89]

Nice mango trees! 

[Pancrazio]

I'm so envious! Nice report!

[zands]

Did he tell you anything about that new mango?  We are hungry for info.

He didn't tell..... I should have asked. You can give Excalibur a call and ask them what it is. looks like it's the new Cat Chu mango.

[MangoFang]

ROBUST is what I'd call the Excalibur mango (in comparing it with the PI one)

Nice purchase, Zands ...... so when will this NEW MANGO CREATION frenzy
finally slow down or come to an end?

well...I think I know the answer to that....

Fang

[mangomandan]

. I am presuming (hoping) this is actually a mis-labelling of 'Hodson', which is supposed to be a good mango.

I remember enjoying a Hodson many years ago at one of the Broward July mango meets.  I don't recall the details, just that it went on my list of nice mangos.

[Tim]

Cat Chu is Vietnamese. I also believe Xoai Cat Chu has been around for quite sometime in Vietnam so it's not a new creation and definitely not at the hands of Excalibur.

[HMHausman]

. I am presuming (hoping) this is actually a mis-labelling of 'Hodson', which is supposed to be a good mango.

I remember enjoying a Hodson many years ago at one of the Broward July mango meets.  I don't recall the details, just that it went on my list of nice mangos.

I have had Hodson.  I wasn't overly impressed with it.  I think Fairchild evaluates it as Good on the Excellent, Good, Fair, Poor scale. It had a small amount of fiber, not objectionable. Decent flavor and a fairly strong aroma as I remember. I forget where I tasted it, and I might want to give it another try if there are few of you that thought it was "all that."  Let me know if anyone finds a source.  Thanks in advance.

Harry

[HMHausman]

Cat Chu is Vietnamese. I also believe Xoai Cat Chu has been around for quite sometime in Vietnam so it's not a new creation and definitely not at the hands of Excalibur.

Do say, Tim.  Tell us about it please.

Harry

[zands]

Cat Chu is Vietnamese. I also believe Xoai Cat Chu has been around for quite sometime in Vietnam so it's not a new creation and definitely not at the hands of Excalibur.

So informative! Thanks for the Vietnamese-American    inside track on this mango. Here are google search results for it that are easily translatable.

[bsbullie]

Po Pyu Kalay price for both mangoes is identical $35 at my local Coral Springs Florida Home Depot (selling mangoes from Pine Island nursery of Florida) and Excalibur Nursery in Lake Worth Florida (Wikipedia: Excalibur is the legendary sword of King Arthur, sometimes attributed with magical powers or associated with the rightful sovereignty of Great Britain)

 Finally got to the famous Excalibur nursery a few days ago and bought a Po Pyu Kalay mango. Excalibur is 50 miles away from me. Here are some comparison photos of a Home Depot Po Pyu Kalay that comes from Pine Island nursery and the Excalibur Po Pyu Kalay which they graft their own. They used to buy from Zill but now graft their own
 
 Excalibur is a trip. Robert was the guy who zipped me around in a golf cart to three different locations where they had Po Pyu Kalay of varying sizes. Robert is very bilingual (English Spanish if that helps anyone) When it came time to pay...Business was transacted under a tent in front of a house. Cash and check only no credit cards. They had a few sapodilla fruits which Robert said "Go ahead and take them for free" as part of the Po Pyu Kalay purchase.
 
 Excalibur is very spread out on two sides of a street. They have the hugest mangoes I have ever seen in a pot. Huge pots 6 feet across. Robert said they bring a little "Cat" to the buyers site to excavate for such trees.
 
They had a bunch of new variety mangoes labeled "Cat" on the pot. Robert said this was code for the new Cocker mango??...if I got him right. Those were nice looking 3 gallon trees so rush up there and get one if you want one. They looked vigorous with thick trunks. Squam256 has commented that they are the new "Cat Chu" mango.  Very fine specimens that I happened to see only because they were next to the best bunch of Po Pyu Kalay from which I picked mine
 

I believe you are referring to pots that has "Coc" written on them.  not a new variety as on Zills new creations but relatively new for sale by Excalibur.

[zands]

 
They had a bunch of new variety mangoes labeled "Cat" on the pot. Robert said this was code for the new Cocker mango??...if I got him right. Those were nice looking 3 gallon trees so rush up there and get one if you want one. They looked vigorous with thick trunks. Squam256 has commented that they are the new "Cat Chu" mango.  Very fine specimens that I happened to see only because they were next to the best bunch of Po Pyu Kalay from which I picked mine
 

I believe you are referring to pots that has "Coc" written on them.  not a new variety as on Zills new creations but relatively new for sale by Excalibur.

I know what happened. I saw the Cat Chu mangoes with CAT written on the pots. I asked Robert about them and he said something like "Cocker" for that mangoes name. Undoubtedly Robert at Excalibur momentarily mixed up the two mangoes. So Excalibur now has Cat Chu (Vietnamese mangoes with lots of internet photos) and Coc mangoes too which I heard as "Cocker". Coc mango had no internet information

To repeat--- I saw Cat Chu mangoes only and they looked very good...3 gallon size. I never saw the Coc mangoes.

[Tim]

Do say, Tim.  Tell us about it please.

Harry

Harry - I wish I have more info and knowledge to share. There are limited literatures online that reference Vietnamese cultivars. Unfortunaly, I only understand 10-15% of the Vietnamese I read. They mostly refer to cultivation practices and distributions. I'm sure other forum members can chime in on this with more understanding. Only had I had this much interest in mangoes back in the days, could've learned something.

Lets see if I can get my in-laws back there to do some research.

[zands]

Is the Po Pyu Kalay aka Lemon meringue mango early, late or Mid season? Anyone know when they come in ripe? Thanks!

[NedNickerson]

Anyone know if some of these new Vietnam mangoes have more flavor than the "Saigon" mangoes I remember?

[HMHausman]

Is the Po Pyu Kalay aka Lemon meringue mango early, late or Mid season? Anyone know when they come in ripe? Thanks!

At my house it tends to be mid-season.  Sometimes, it is late easrly season. Basically, June and July.

Harry

[zands]

Is the Po Pyu Kalay aka Lemon meringue mango early, late or Mid season? Anyone know when they come in ripe? Thanks!

At my house it tends to be mid-season.  Sometimes, it is late easrly season. Basically, June and July.

Harry

Thanks much. Today I finally planted the Po Pyu Kalay aka Lemon meringue mango you can see in the photos above. I planted the one from Excalibur and will be returning the other one to Home Depot in Coral Springs...where I see a lot of mangoes being bought. Being spring and all

If the PPK was early I would have planted them both

[dongeorgio]

I got one called 'Cat Chu' today. Could be that.

Honestly, I don't even know what most of the stuff I got from them even is.

For example, I picked up a mango today labelled both 'Obson' and also 'Hobson' on the tag. Richard called it a 'Hobson'. I am presuming (hoping) this is actually a mis-labelling of 'Hodson', which is supposed to be a good mango.

Squam,


   Did you ever determine if the Hobson sold at Excalibur was, in fact, a Hodson?

[ClayMango]

Ahh Zands...


The only thing we find at our Home Depot and Lowes here in SOCAL...Is a Haden or Kent... Their is a major Lag on popular choice Mangos out here. On the Bright side....these Big Box stores are getting better in my opinion... Their trees are typically cheaper and bigger, and store locations are generally much closer. I purchased 2 Avocado trees on the same day....one from a nursery in the valley area of De Luz(far), the other down the street from me from Home Depot...The Trees were about the same price....however Home Depots tree was much healthier, better graft, trunk size was thicker, decent structure.....while Hill's nursery  avocado....looked like crap (not speaking for all nurseries).... I hate to say it...But these Big Box stores are contracting out to top tier wholesale nurseries...and are receiving much better trees and plants.....I hate to leave the small guys out....but it is what it is.

[puglvr1]

Zands, since this thread is a year old...do you have any updates, pictures of your trees? Is it blooming? Thanks!!

[gunnar429]

So the 'coc' mango on their website is actually cocker, rather than Cac?  I figured they may have Cac since they have cat chu and cat hoa loc (all vietnamese i believe).  I asked Squam about these 3 a while back.  He said cat chu is the best of the 3 (Cac, cat hoa loc, and cat chu). 

FWIW, I thought the Cac mango was very good when i had it at the mango festival a few years ago. 

[zands]

Zands, since this thread is a year old...do you have any updates, pictures of your trees? Is it blooming? Thanks!!

About two months later I was at Excalibur again and got a Coc Vietnamese mango. I planted this instead of the PPK. If had more space I would have planted the PPK too but.... space limitations prevented this.  Lemon Zest is derived from PPK I belive.

The Coc is doing very well with many tiny fruits. About 6-7 ft high. Planted May 2012   (not 2011)

[zands]

So the 'coc' mango on their website is actually cocker, rather than Cac?  I figured they may have Cac since they have cat chu and cat hoa loc (all vietnamese i believe).  I asked Squam about these 3 a while back.  He said cat chu is the best of the 3 (Cac, cat hoa loc, and cat chu). 

FWIW, I thought the Cac mango was very good when i had it at the mango festival a few years ago.

bsbullie (rob) know for sure but I think Cac is same as Coc  (all are Vietnamese, yes)

[gunnar429]

Zands, since this thread is a year old...do you have any updates, pictures of your trees? Is it blooming? Thanks!!

About two months later I was at Excalibur again and got a Coc Vietnamese mango. I planted this instead of the PPK. If had more space I would have planted the PPK too but.... space limitations prevented this.  Lemon Zest is derived from PPK I belive.

The Coc is doing very well with many tiny fruits. About 6-7 ft high. Planted May 2011

So instead of 2 PPKs, you ended up with none?  that's funny if i am correct

[zands]

So instead of 2 PPKs, you ended up with none?  that's funny if i am correct

I did my best to keep it a secret but pugsLvr somehow unearthed this thread

[ClayMango]

With Lemon Zest being held as the greatest by many...and an improved PPK seedling...than I think the forum can forgive you for this Blunder Zands lol

[zands]

With Lemon Zest being held as the greatest by many...and an improved PPK seedling...than I think the forum can forgive you for this Blunder Zands lol

Looks like I dodged the PPK bullet
http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=9706.0

[Squam256]

I got one called 'Cat Chu' today. Could be that.

Honestly, I don't even know what most of the stuff I got from them even is.

For example, I picked up a mango today labelled both 'Obson' and also 'Hobson' on the tag. Richard called it a 'Hobson'. I am presuming (hoping) this is actually a mis-labelling of 'Hodson', which is supposed to be a good mango.

Squam,


   Did you ever determine if the Hobson sold at Excalibur was, in fact, a Hodson?

Pretty sure they are the same.

[Mr. Clean]

The green tape seems to be girdling the Excalibur tree.

[bsbullie]

The green tape seems to be girdling the Excalibur tree.

I see you haven't changed...

[Mr. Clean]

The green tape seems to be girdling the Excalibur tree.

I see you haven't changed...

How would you describe the bottom tape on the tree? 

[fruitnut]

So the 'coc' mango on their website is actually cocker, rather than Cac?  I figured they may have Cac since they have cat chu and cat hoa loc (all vietnamese i believe).  I asked Squam about these 3 a while back.  He said cat chu is the best of the 3 (Cac, cat hoa loc, and cat chu). 

FWIW, I thought the Cac mango was very good when i had it at the mango festival a few years ago.

bsbullie (rob) know for sure but I think Cac is same as Coc  (all are Vietnamese, yes)

Cac is the mango, and Coc is not a mango, but Junes Plum in Vietnamese.  I might be wrong, but I have not heard of a Coc mango.

[murahilin]

Cac is the mango, and Coc is not a mango, but Junes Plum in Vietnamese.  I might be wrong, but I have not heard of a Coc mango.

http://www.vietnamtravels.vn/Vietnam-travel-information/Fruits.htm

According to that link, the Coc mango translates to toad mango. There may be two different mangos, the Coc and the Cac but it seems that Coc is an actual variety.

[bsbullie]

The green tape seems to be girdling the Excalibur tree.

I see you haven't changed...

How would you describe the bottom tape on the tree? 

that tree tape will stretch, as you know.  It will not girdle into the tree.  In many cases it can actually break.  It is also removed and reapplies when the trees are uppotted.  You obviously have not been to many large scale nurseries...not every tree is given one on one attention to check for each tree tape tie.  When trees are not sold or they grow in a more vigorous manner, they can and sometimes will outgrow their pot, stake and tree tape that ties the stake. 

I have seen this effect at Zills, Pine Island, Laras and Excalibur, to name a few of the more locally popular nurseries.   You need to get off your horse and stop criticizing cause you got a bad $15 plant and did nothing about it but instead trying to get your rocks off by taking any shot you can.  Oh, maybe you have a credible source that can prove me wrong...

[mikesid]

bsbullie is back!!! 

http://youtu.be/pchXf1SqjvQ

[Patrick]

I will admit I missed Rob, even when he's a bit grouchy. I hope he continues to communicate on the forum, even at the cost of feelings being hurt! Hell, it gets interesting at times, keeps me checking posts for updates.

[Mr. Clean]

The green tape seems to be girdling the Excalibur tree.

I see you haven't changed...

How would you describe the bottom tape on the tree? 

that tree tape will stretch, as you know.  It will not girdle into the tree.  In many cases it can actually break.  It is also removed and reapplies when the trees are uppotted.  You obviously have not been to many large scale nurseries...not every tree is given one on one attention to check for each tree tape tie.  When trees are not sold or they grow in a more vigorous manner, they can and sometimes will outgrow their pot, stake and tree tape that ties the stake. 

I have seen this effect at Zills, Pine Island, Laras and Excalibur, to name a few of the more locally popular nurseries.   You need to get off your horse and stop criticizing cause you got a bad $15 plant and did nothing about it but instead trying to get your rocks off by taking any shot you can.  Oh, maybe you have a credible source that can prove me wrong...

Yes, I have had at least one mislabeled plant from Excalibur.  Your response is why I believe other nurseries are superior in quality to Excalibur.  Imagine if you went to McDonalds and there was something wrong with your Egg McMuffin.  You complained about your food and the food server said, "We are no worst than our competition, eat it!"  Would that response engender loyalty?  Your response is the equivalent.  Excalibur has many good points, including a very large selection.  You seem to see RED whenever anyone says anything negative about Excalibur.  Without being able to receive and apply constructive criticism, your nursery will not achieve it's optimum level of quality.

[HMHausman]

How would you describe the bottom tape on the tree? 

While I do see some apparent slowing of growth on the trunk of this tree where it is covered by tape, I don't really think this is girdling the tree in the sense that girdling is used agriculturally.  Girdling is usually performed by cutting into the branch.....to stimulate fruit production (as in lychees) or by completely removing bark and cambium to do an air layer, or even further down to kill a tree entirely. I suppose one could say that it is only a matter of degree and I would not argue. Plastic tape can slow the growth of a young tree where it is applied but will not cause any real consequences even if it does not stretch.  I have had metal tomato cages around my trees to protect from gardener attack and have left them on as the trees have grown.  The metal does not stretch, the tree trunk just grows right around the metal and the metal becomes encased in the trunk.  The tree is none the worse for wear. That green tape, depending upon how it is applied is sometimes much stronger and less stretchy than one might think. I have had many occasions where the green tape has cut into the young tree trunk.  But again, overall, its of no consequence unless you just don't like the look.

[Tropicalgrower89]

I've seen two young grafted mango trees that have been girdled by the green tape. Both of them were green tapes located below the graft. My old kent tree was pretty girdled by the green tape and my uncle's newly obtained haden tree had the same problem even though my kent was even worse. The diameter of the trunk where the green tape covered was much smaller than the rest of the trunk on my kent. The bottom portion of the trunk looked weird due to that problem. I took it off and with time, the ring-indentation filled in and looked much more even with the rest of the trunk.

[Patrick]

If the nursery is very large, like mine for example (LOL), they use a tapener tool.  The tapener tool uses a microstaple to fasten the ends of the green tape and cut it off just the length it needs for the tie.  Once the tree grows, the slight expanse begins the process of tearing at the staple point.  It will eventually pop off at the connection and never girdle the tree. 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NURSERY-PLANT-TYING-TAPETOOL-TAPENER-MACHINE-10-rolls-tape-staples-Extra-Blade-/300853766671?_trksid=p2054897.l4276

[Tropicalgrower89]

If the nursery is very large, like mine for example (LOL), they use a tapener tool.  The tapener tool uses a microstaple to fasten the ends of the green tape and cut it off just the length it needs for the tie.  Once the tree grows, the slight expanse begins the process of tearing at the staple point.  It will eventually pop off at the connection and never girdle the tree. 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NURSERY-PLANT-TYING-TAPETOOL-TAPENER-MACHINE-10-rolls-tape-staples-Extra-Blade-/300853766671?_trksid=p2054897.l4276

The ones that were girdled were actually tied ( small knots) and not stapled. Stapling seems to make much more sense since it will eventually break off as the trunk grows in width like you were mentioning. The tied ones seem to be much harder for the tree to break off, hence the girdling. My old kent was from Lowes and my uncle's haden was from an unknown source, but both had the pine island tag.

[Patrick]

The thing is really slick. You can fly down a line of trees with a handful of stakes and stick them in a pot, and make three ties in about 3-5 seconds each.  A must have for every collector that is obsessive like me.

[Tropicalgrower89]

The thing is really slick. You can fly down a line of trees with a handful of stakes and stick them in a pot, and make three ties in about 3-5 seconds each.  A must have for every collector that is obsessive like me.

Cool.