Citrus from seeds

[D-Grower]

Been trying to research citrus from seeds and likelihood of true to type or at least quality fruits.

A few online articles suggest against conventional knowledge some citrus will in fact grow true or at very least produce good fruit. Then there's also the argument that if no one planted seeds there would be no creation of new varieties nonetheless. A third argument arises in that even if you grow citrus from seed and it doesn't produce good fruit you still have a nice tree with its taproot ready to graft good varieties onto. Another seemingly logical argument suggests if your seeds came from a store bought fruit it likely came from a grove of nothing but the same type of fruit and unless it came from the margins of the grove even cross pollination between middle grove trees cannot result in bad fruits or far from true fruits because they could have only crossed with themselves which are all good genetics. Too much to consider without growing seeds yourself and waiting.

Can anyone shed some personal experience on this? Not asking for the conventional answer here but for people who may have grown fairly true citrus from seed to share their thoughts and experience.

Thanks! DG

[mrtexas]

Don't let anyone tell you citrus don't come true from seed, they are wrong. 99% of citrus come true from seed and it is nearly impossible to hybridize them.
Google nucellar polyembryony.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nucellar_embryony A few that don't include lee mandarin, clementine, pummelo, meyer lemon, and temple. The few that
don't are frequently used to make crosses. I have 3 USDA recently released crosses of lee, lee x nova, lee x orlando, and lee x robinson.

I have grown some from seed, sunquat, sour orange, and others. The sunquat flowered in the 2nd year. A friend waited 17 years for a cocktail seedling to bloom. It varies but usually will flower by 5 years. I am currently growing out from seed sugar belle as the budwood is not available in Texas for grafting. I put the seedling on a swingle rootstock as seedlings sometimes don't have the best root system. It should take about 5 years to flower. My sugar belle seedling currently has 2-3 inch thorns. When the tree is mature the thorns usually go away at the top of the tree. I was growing a shiranui seedling but not now that the budwood should be available in Texas in a year or two. Others in Texas are growing out sumo or shiranui. It is not worth it IMHO to grow out a seedling when budwood is available for grafting. However a seedling can be a cheap tree. Satsuma seedlings likely will flower in 5 years, not have any thorns, and do good on their own roots.  Most meyer lemons are grown on their own roots from cuttings. I have seen a seedling kumquat with 3 inch thorns near the ground and no thorns as the top. Seedlings tend to have upright growth habit as well

Note the time to flower depends on whether it is in the ground or pot. In a pot it might never get big enough to flower. My seedlings are in the ground.

Note that growing your own citrus tree from seed or grafted is illegal in Florida.

seedling sugar belle


seedling sugar belle thorns



http://mrtexascitrus.weebly.com/citrusseedlings.html

[D-Grower]

Wow man thanks for all the info and clearing that up!

Its only sad to know I cannot grow any seeds from good fruits I find due to location. Guess I'll have to buy ready grafted trees from just fruits and exotics when I move that way. At least they'll produce fast! Maybe if I move outside FL one day I'll give some seeds a try.

I wish you the best with your seedlings!

[countryboy1981]

Here is a crazy question.  If you grow a tree from seed it takes 5+ years to fruit.  What if you plant the seed and grow it out until you can get budwood from it (6 months, 1 year?) and then graft it onto rootstock.  Will it fruit sooner this route or do you have to take budwood from an already fruiting/flowering tree?

[D-Grower]

I would love to know that as well to be totally sure. However a guy at a tropical fruit farm once told me you cannot air layer a tree that hasn't fruited or the layered cutting will never produce fruit. I don't know if that's true either but it is a similar principal. Even though its a graft its immature wood just as would be a immature air layer.

Someone knows hopefully they will chime in to settle the matter.

[Tropheus76]

Realistic question from FL, how will anyone know if the orange tree growing in a private garden is grown from seed or not and who would check? Seems next to impossible for any law enforcement agency to actually enforce that law. I get Cutie seeds all the time, occasionally toss them in a pot and every now and then get a seedling. For some reason they do not last long and never get more than 6" or so. But the idea that I cant grow my own seeds, especially since disease does not travel in seeds, is ludicrous.

[Millet]

If you plant a citrus seed and grow it out 6 months or a year you could get bud wood.  However, the budwood would be immature wood, and would not produce a mature fruiting  tree, and would not reduce the waiting time.  To get a mature fruiting citrus tree from grafting budwood, the budwood MUST be taken from a mature already fruiting tree. - Millet 

[countryboy1981]

That's what I thought Millet but was hoping otherwise.

[mrtexas]

Here is a crazy question.  If you grow a tree from seed it takes 5+ years to fruit.  What if you plant the seed and grow it out until you can get budwood from it (6 months, 1 year?) and then graft it onto rootstock.  Will it fruit sooner this route or do you have to take budwood from an already fruiting/flowering tree?

I budded the immature budwood on a rootstock for the benefits of the rootstock. It will still take just as long
to fruit.

[D-Grower]

I don't know if my post just didn't go through or was removed. Don't think I said anything out of line other than being a bit sarcastic. Sorry if I did!

Anyways thank y'all for the info!

[Millet]

If you have a missing post it must not have gone through. I have not deleted anything.  Your an important member, and we all thank you for your input. - Millet

[D-Grower]

Thank you Millet! I'm still a noob here but hope to continue to grow with y'all and be able to offer a lot more in the future. The plants of my most expertise are not suitable for this forum being in the class known as entheogens. I'm going head strong into ideas of permaculture and food foresting now with edible plants. I'm just one of those guys where new fruits and veggies and plants abroad arouse my excitement more than most people. I'm a fruit addict! Somebody intervene! I might wanna collect cool species until I leave this life and join with thy maker and not bother anyone too much the whole time!!!