The Tropical Fruit Forum

Tropical Fruit => Tropical Fruit Buy, Sell & Trade => Topic started by: edself65 on February 01, 2012, 04:27:21 AM

Title: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: edself65 on February 01, 2012, 04:27:21 AM
I was wondering if anyone has any grafted Ilamas to sale or trade?

Thanks,

Ed
Title: Re: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: edself65 on February 07, 2012, 06:42:20 PM
I was wondering if anyone has any grafted Ilamas to sale or trade?

I would also be interested in budwood? Anyone got it to trade or sale?

Thanks,

Ed Self
Title: Re: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: bsbullie on February 08, 2012, 11:01:32 AM
Excalibur has grafted Ilamas.
Title: Re: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: murahilin on February 08, 2012, 11:05:11 AM
Excalibur has grafted Ilamas.

Last I spoke to them they said they did not have any in smaller sizes and only had the few giant ones in large pots. They have recently grafted a bunch that will be ready in a few months. Have you been told differently?
Title: Re: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: HMHausman on February 08, 2012, 01:20:04 PM
I was wondering if anyone has any grafted Ilamas to sale or trade?

I would also be interested in budwood? Anyone got it to trade or sale?

Thanks,

Ed Self

You were welcome to budwood from my Genova Red when you were by my house.  You didn't ask.  I can send you some though.

Harry
Title: Re: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: edself65 on February 08, 2012, 02:35:04 PM
Hi Harry!

I forgot to ask! Once we tried those Haysa Sapodillas all I was thinking about was getting a sapodilla tree!

If you could send me 2 or 3 pieces that would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,

Ed
Title: Re: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: bsbullie on February 08, 2012, 02:41:32 PM
Excalibur has grafted Ilamas.

Last I spoke to them they said they did not have any in smaller sizes and only had the few giant ones in large pots. They have recently grafted a bunch that will be ready in a few months. Have you been told differently?
Richard had said he did, though I didn't ask what size.  I know they have some that are 2-3 months off, maybe that is what Richard was referring to.
Title: Re: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: edself65 on February 08, 2012, 02:43:44 PM
Murahilin or Rob do either of you know what rootstock Excalibur is using for the Ilama?

Thanks,

Ed
Title: Re: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: bsbullie on February 08, 2012, 04:40:50 PM
Murahilin or Rob do either of you know what rootstock Excalibur is using for the Ilama?

Thanks,

Ed
Funny you ask, Richard wasn't sure on first thought when I asked him.  I will see if I can find out for you.
Title: Re: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: Lianne Murray on February 09, 2012, 04:53:10 PM
Ilama is more sensitive to cold and conditions that Atemoya and Sugar Apple. Here at The treehouse we have an aged plant that my parents brought back from El Salvador. It is Pink and has wonderful fruit. We will be propagating and have later this year.
Title: Re: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: edself65 on February 09, 2012, 05:59:29 PM
Do you ever have any Ilama fruit to sell?

Thanks,

Ed Self
Title: Re: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: HMHausman on February 09, 2012, 08:47:40 PM
Ilama is more sensitive to cold and conditions that Atemoya and Sugar Apple. Here at The treehouse we have an aged plant that my parents brought back from El Salvador. It is Pink and has wonderful fruit. We will be propagating and have later this year.

That has not been my experience with Genova Red.  If anything, it is more cold hardy than atemoyas or suga apples.

Harry
Title: Re: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: bsbullie on February 11, 2012, 02:01:53 PM
The Illamas are grafted on custard apple rootstock and they are cold hearty.
Title: Re: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: FlyingFoxFruits on February 11, 2012, 04:23:38 PM
Murahilin or Rob do either of you know what rootstock Excalibur is using for the Ilama?

Thanks,

Ed
Funny you ask, Richard wasn't sure on first thought when I asked him.  I will see if I can find out for you.


Ed,

Looked like annona glabra at excalibur...but had horrible galling and disgusting look about the rootstock and graft union...

Although the tree was healthy (nice above graft union, nice foliage) and fruiting....so pond apple may be an acceptable rootstock.

I think best is illama/illam, or illama/A. reticulata....also respectable candidates include atemoya seedlings, both cherimoya and sugar apple of course...am I'm sure a few other Annona sp. would be just fine to graft onto...

May all of your grafts callus and grow like weeds!

PS...some thoughts on grafting...

(I love grafting because it's like performing surgery on a a patient that doesn't bleed, need anesthetic, or a nurse...also, no family to report to if things go awry, and your patient dies!)

But...sometimes the person who gave you the budwood may want to hear how they're little "patient" (scion) is doing in your hospital (greenhouse/home garden), and "blood" (sap) can get on your grafting knife and will need to be cleaned!!!

So I guess it's all how you look at it...maybe some plants will be more missed than an old random bum that shows up in a hospital, and dies of pneumonia as a John Doe.

Title: Re: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: edself65 on February 14, 2012, 02:27:28 PM
Thanks Rob for the info on the rootstock!

Thanks Adam for the grafting on pond apple info!

Thanks,
Ed
Title: Re: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: HMHausman on February 14, 2012, 03:09:25 PM
Looked like annona glabra at excalibur...but had horrible galling and disgusting look about the rootstock and graft union...

Although the tree was healthy (nice above graft union, nice foliage) and fruiting....so pond apple may be an acceptable rootstock.

I think best is illama/illam, or illama/A. reticulata....also respectable candidates include atemoya seedlings, both cherimoya and sugar apple of course...am I'm sure a few other Annona sp. would be just fine to graft onto...

My Genova Red is on pond apple and the graft union/compatability is not good.  The tree will survive and fruit, but, as you saw at my house, Ed.....the graft union is very ugly.  The glabra rootstock will grow twice or more as fast as the diverifolia.  I totally agree with Adam's recomendations for better root stock candidates.

Harry
Title: Re: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: Cookie Monster on February 14, 2012, 03:41:28 PM
Ed, how is your fairchild doing?
Title: Re: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: edself65 on February 14, 2012, 04:36:13 PM
Yeah after seeing yours Harry I changed my mind about using pond Apple as rootstock. I plan to try various annona rootstock.

Thanks,

Ed
Title: Re: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: Jacob13 on February 21, 2012, 07:12:10 PM
Hey Ed,

I saw your post about looking for an ilama and wanted to let you know that I have a source here is California for some "Genova Red" ilamas.  The trees are about 3' feet tall and are grafted onto Cherimoya rootstock, so there shouldn't be any problem with the Cold Hardiness.  The trees are $125.00.  I too have been looking for a "Genova Red" ilama for about 2-3 years and have finally find one.  I just thought I'd let you know in case you were interested.

Let me know if you are interested.

Talk to you soon,

Jacob

Title: Re: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: FlyingFoxFruits on February 22, 2012, 09:57:48 AM
Make sure to buy a hacksaw and novicaine to!  They are going to need one of your arms, and also a leg.   ;)
Title: Re: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: Cookie Monster on February 22, 2012, 11:34:29 AM
Yikes. No doubt. That's the most expensive ilama I've heard of.
Title: Re: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: Jacob13 on February 22, 2012, 02:54:14 PM
No Kidding,

Totally, ridiculous, I just thought I would put it out there since I know he was looking for one. Same guy wants $150.00 for a 5' Foot tall 'Kampong Mauve' Sugar Apple.

Im just the Messenger   :-\
Title: Re: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: FloridaGreenMan on February 24, 2012, 09:59:46 PM
I had a Genova Red for a long time and fruited it for 3 or 4 years before a storm severely damaged it.  Mine was also grafted on A.glabra and the graft union was a bit ugly as has been mentioned. The fruits were awesome and tasted like a raspberry vanilla pudding with zero grit. My main complaint was that some years it aborted quite a few fruit. Roger Meyer's tree in Calif was grown  from budwood that I gave him. Another local friend nearby fruited the Pajapita cultivar but the Genova was superior to that one. It is very cold tolerant. The photo is from my fruits here in Florida.       

(http://s17.postimage.org/nx8h7u9wr/Genova_Red.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/nx8h7u9wr/)


Title: Re: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: FlyingFoxFruits on February 27, 2012, 02:33:33 PM
Hi Ed,
Contact Mr. Roger Meyer....I was there about a month ago and he has a few genova red at 4-5', 5 gallon for $35.
cheers
DT

Called Roger, he's a nice fellow I must say.

He don't got Illama though (at least not as described)

I actually am going to try to help him get budwood of some annonas.

Title: Re: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: nullzero on February 27, 2012, 04:14:11 PM
Hi Ed,
Contact Mr. Roger Meyer....I was there about a month ago and he has a few genova red at 4-5', 5 gallon for $35.
cheers
DT

Called Roger, he's a nice fellow I must say.

He don't got Illama though (at least not as described)

I actually am going to try to help him get budwood of some annonas.

Roger is a very nice guy, I have bought several trees from him in the past few years.  He is a great resource for Southern California, his prices are always reasonable.
Title: Re: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: JF on February 29, 2012, 11:54:33 PM

Roger is a very nice guy, I have bought several trees from him in the past few years.  He is a great resource for Southern California, his prices are always reasonable.
[/quote]

Here Here! I second that, Roger is great.
Title: Re: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: ggpalms on April 24, 2012, 11:23:08 PM
I tasted one last year.  I would love to get a few of these trees. Here are some of my observations and comments.

Ilama (e lama) is the common name of this amazing fruit. The flavor is unique. I have tasted them several times and find them sweet with a rich complex flavor. This tree is for the more experienced grower.

You probably won't see many of these trees for one main reason. Even as great tasting as it is, the fruit has one major drawback. The fruit splits on the tree when ready to eat. To the average person this is an unsightly reason to stay away from the fruit. Well as far as I am concerned that just means more fruit for the more adventurous fruit lover.

Jason "Pepe" 8)

(http://s14.postimage.org/6p90r6p0d/Ilama_Pepes.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/6p90r6p0d/)

Title: Re: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: Mike T on April 27, 2012, 10:55:55 PM
FGM that is one arse-kicking fruit in the picture.Your description of the taste is at the very fringe of what seems possible for an annona. Do you know just how true to type illamas are when grown from seed?
Title: Re: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: ggpalms on May 01, 2012, 08:57:15 AM
From what I have heard it will grow a decent fruiting tree in about 4-5 years. If anyone has some scions avalable of a superior variety please post a notice.

Take care Mike T.

"Pepe"
Title: Re: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: Mike T on May 01, 2012, 09:18:22 AM
Thanks for the info pepe.That is  longer than a soursop or sugar apple would take.
Title: Re: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: ggpalms on May 01, 2012, 09:47:32 AM
Sugar apples are fast and so is Soursop you are right on. I had the best sugar apples on trees only 3 years of age from seedlings.
Soursops I always sell out of and the last one I sold was about three years old but no flowers.

The one person I know that could give you more specifics on the Ilama is Gary from Zill Plants In West Palm Beach.

All the best,

Jason "Pepe"
Title: Re: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: behlgarden on May 01, 2012, 12:53:53 PM
Does anyone in So. Cal has Genova Red? Wondering how it does in local climate and whether it can be grafted on to Cherimoya rootstock.  Would love to get some budwood.
Title: Re: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: simon_grow on May 03, 2012, 05:19:32 PM
Hey Behl, if you find any, let me know.  I'm very interested in it and would love to find a plant or budwood. 
Simon
Title: Re: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: behlgarden on May 03, 2012, 06:29:34 PM
Hi Simon,

I am looking for budwood and will see if I can get some from somewhere, timing is just right here in So. Cal to graft. I would love to get it onto my mature Cherimoya tree that has other things that JF sent pushing.

Also, I got your buddy tape. PM me the imformation.
Title: Re: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: behlgarden on May 03, 2012, 06:53:32 PM
Simon,

I found this nurcery by your house http://encantofarms.com/poirier.html (http://encantofarms.com/poirier.html)
Ben & Mary Poirier
P.O.Box 222
Fallbrook, Ca 92088
(760) 751-1605

E-Mail benplant@tfb.com

I emailed them, lets see what they got.
Title: Re: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: behlgarden on May 03, 2012, 06:59:37 PM
Per Roger Meyer,  Atemoya and Ilama are separate species, Genova Red is not Ilama, but an Atemoya.  Are we discussing Ilama OR Genova Red here?

Per Harry, He has Genova Red and he swears by it being one of the best. So, are we looking for Ilama OR Genova Red?
Title: Re: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: HMHausman on May 04, 2012, 10:33:25 AM
Per Roger Meyer,  Atemoya and Ilama are separate species, Genova Red is not Ilama, but an Atemoya.  Are we discussing Ilama OR Genova Red here?

Per Harry, He has Genova Red and he swears by it being one of the best. So, are we looking for Ilama OR Genova Red?

With all due respect to Roger Meyer, if you are quoting him correctly, Genova Red is one of three cultivars of Ilama (annona diversifloia) that Zills distributed in the 90's.  The others being Pajapita and Guillermo.  Har can confrirm this as he was with Zills at that time and was involved in the production and distribution of them at that time.  Genova red is absolutely an Ilama and is absolutely not an atemoya.

Harry
Title: Re: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: behlgarden on May 04, 2012, 10:35:53 AM
Thanks Harry, I will confirm with him, He is going to call me. Anyway, if you dont mind, can I get few scions of this Genova Red?
Title: Re: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: Cookie Monster on May 04, 2012, 08:45:26 PM
Yep. Roger Meyer has been selling what he calls 'Genova Red', which is in fact an atemoya. I and at least one other person bought the 'Genova Red' expecting to get an ilama -- but instead got atemoya. Either there is also an atemoya named 'Genova Red' (in addition to the Ilama that Har brought back from Central America and named 'Genova Red'), or there is a misnaming issue. I think the latter is more probable.

Per Roger Meyer,  Atemoya and Ilama are separate species, Genova Red is not Ilama, but an Atemoya.  Are we discussing Ilama OR Genova Red here?

Per Harry, He has Genova Red and he swears by it being one of the best. So, are we looking for Ilama OR Genova Red?

With all due respect to Roger Meyer, if you are quoting him correctly, Genova Red is one of three cultivars of Ilama (annona diversifloia) that Zills distributed in the 90's.  The others being Pajapita and Guillermo.  Har can confrirm this as he was with Zills at that time and was involved in the production and distribution of them at that time.  Genova red is absolutely an Ilama and is absolutely not an atemoya.

Harry
Title: Re: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: Cookie Monster on May 04, 2012, 08:46:39 PM
Ilama can indeed be grafted to cherimoya. Harry has one that I grafted a couple of years back. Whether it increases cold tolerance is unknown.

Does anyone in So. Cal has Genova Red? Wondering how it does in local climate and whether it can be grafted on to Cherimoya rootstock.  Would love to get some budwood.
Title: Re: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: JF on May 04, 2012, 11:30:28 PM
Ilama can indeed be grafted to cherimoya. Harry has one that I grafted a couple of years back. Whether it increases cold tolerance is unknown.

Does anyone in So. Cal has Genova Red? Wondering how it does in local climate and whether it can be grafted on to Cherimoya rootstock.  Would love to get some budwood.

They do take to cherimoya. I had 2 take but what rootstock do you guys use in Florida to graft Ilamas?
Title: Re: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: Cookie Monster on May 05, 2012, 12:39:44 AM
There's not much data as to what's the best rootstock to use here. The one thing we do know is that pond apple is not it :-). Ilama is graft compatible to a lot of different annonas. I'm thinking that either A. reticulata or A. cherimola may be the better bets though.

Ilama can indeed be grafted to cherimoya. Harry has one that I grafted a couple of years back. Whether it increases cold tolerance is unknown.

Does anyone in So. Cal has Genova Red? Wondering how it does in local climate and whether it can be grafted on to Cherimoya rootstock.  Would love to get some budwood.

They do take to cherimoya. I had 2 take but what rootstock do you guys use in Florida to graft Ilamas?
Title: Re: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: bsbullie on May 05, 2012, 01:26:55 AM
I think A. reticulata is more commonly used as the rootstock in Florida due to higher availability of seeds.
Title: Re: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: behlgarden on May 08, 2012, 10:26:07 AM
Per Roger Meyer,  Atemoya and Ilama are separate species, Genova Red is not Ilama, but an Atemoya.  Are we discussing Ilama OR Genova Red here?

Per Harry, He has Genova Red and he swears by it being one of the best. So, are we looking for Ilama OR Genova Red?

With all due respect to Roger Meyer, if you are quoting him correctly, Genova Red is one of three cultivars of Ilama (annona diversifloia) that Zills distributed in the 90's.  The others being Pajapita and Guillermo.  Har can confrirm this as he was with Zills at that time and was involved in the production and distribution of them at that time.  Genova red is absolutely an Ilama and is absolutely not an atemoya.

Harry

Hi Harry,

Got response from Roger
"The Ilama-Genova Red controversy came from a book called "Cornucopia II". The  author, Steve Facciola, misidentified Genova Red. It is actually an Atemoya (1/2 Cherimoya and 1/2 Sugar Apple.) I grafted the Genova Red plant so I know what it is"

Thoughts? I am trying to get Genova Red Ilama or budwood. Wondering my options here.
Title: Re: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: HMHausman on May 08, 2012, 11:00:03 AM
Hi Harry,

Got response from Roger
"The Ilama-Genova Red controversy came from a book called "Cornucopia II". The  author, Steve Facciola, misidentified Genova Red. It is actually an Atemoya (1/2 Cherimoya and 1/2 Sugar Apple.) I grafted the Genova Red plant so I know what it is"

Thoughts? I am trying to get Genova Red Ilama or budwood. Wondering my options here.



Not sure what Cornucopia says, nor what Steve Facciola thinks, but what I know as Genova Red, from Zills is not cherimoya or sugar apple whatsoever.  It doesn't look like either, nevermind a half and half cross of the two.  I have to beg to differ with what Roger is saying.  I can send you budwood.  I have about 30 pending reuests for scions of various trees.  I try not to say no to anyone.  I'm a bit innundated at the moment but will try to get you some as soon as I can.

Harry
Title: Re: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: behlgarden on May 08, 2012, 11:05:52 AM
Harry,  Thanks. Yes, the fruit may not look like Ilama of yours and that is what I want. Yes, please keep me in mind in your scion distribution, would love to get few other things (sent you PM's), will pay expided shipping and other costs as you may see fit.

Thanks. BTW, do you want more buddy tape? got two rolls up for take.
Title: Re: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: Cookie Monster on May 08, 2012, 12:30:20 PM
Roger's 'genova red' is unequivocally not ilama. I had one. The leaves and flowers of the former bear no resemblance whatsoever to the latter.

Harry,  Thanks. Yes, the fruit may not look like Ilama of yours and that is what I want. Yes, please keep me in mind in your scion distribution, would love to get few other things (sent you PM's), will pay expided shipping and other costs as you may see fit.

Thanks. BTW, do you want more buddy tape? got two rolls up for take.
Title: Re: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: Jacob13 on May 08, 2012, 07:11:54 PM
Hello Friends,

I just wanted to Concur with Jeff on the Roger Meyer "Genova Red".  It is DEFINITELY NOT an Ilama.  I purchased one from him about 2 years ago.  What he is selling, definitely looks to be an Atemoya and the fruit are Green. I will post some pictures of the "Genova Red" Atemoya I got from him.  Again, it is nothing like the pictures of the fruit in this thread, nor is it Red.

 - Jacob
Title: Re: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: fruitlovers on May 08, 2012, 11:43:58 PM

Not sure what Cornucopia says, nor what Steve Facciola thinks, but what I know as Genova Red, from Zills is not cherimoya or sugar apple whatsoever.  It doesn't look like either, nevermind a half and half cross of the two.  I have to beg to differ with what Roger is saying.  I can send you budwood.  I have about 30 pending reuests for scions of various trees.  I try not to say no to anyone.  I'm a bit innundated at the moment but will try to get you some as soon as I can.

Harry

Steve Facciola list Genova Red as an Ilama in his book Cornucopia, p. 12:
Genova Red: Large, smooth, pinkish-green fruit with deeply cracked skin; reddish pulp with a very pleasant, subacid flavor. Originated in Genova, Guatemala. introduced into Florida in 1988. MAHDEEM; N53M
Seems like the confusion is on the part of Roger Meyer, unless there is also an atemoya cultivar with the identical name?
Title: Re: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: behlgarden on May 09, 2012, 12:56:29 AM
Now all I need is scion so we can clear the confusion, LOL.
Title: Re: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: murahilin on May 09, 2012, 09:08:26 AM
Now all I need is scion so we can clear the confusion, LOL.

Once someone sends you the Genova Red ilama budwood then you can show Roger Meyer what he was supposed to have gotten all those years ago!

As the information that Oscar quoted from Cornucopia shows, Har Mahdeem (Guanabanus on the forum) along with Zills (i think) introduced the Genova Red ilama in the 80s from Central America. Now, I don't think Har would confuse an atemoya and an ilama.

If Roger Meyer did not create or introduce his so called 'Genova Red' atemoya himself, he likely got incorrect budwood from someone who thought they had the Genova Red ilama but instead had an atemoya. Someone quoted earlier that Roger Meyer said he knows its an atemoya and the book was wrong because he grafted it himself. Grafting an incorrectly labeled tree does not make him right. Maybe someone can share with him the real Genova Red ilama budwood.

There may be the possibility that there is a red atemoya from Genova, Guatemala that is known as the Genova Red atemoya, and in that case, it would be very interesting to see what it looks like and maybe get some of the budwood for FL to add to the confusion.
Title: Re: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: behlgarden on May 09, 2012, 10:29:41 AM
Actually Roger emailed me last night and said that he grafted Ilama 5 years ago and it did not survive cold of So. Cal. He wasnt sure if Ilama would survive in So. Cal. Anyone? Temps here could drop to low 30's.
Title: Re: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: HMHausman on May 09, 2012, 12:55:42 PM
MY Genova Red, dormant like almost all annonas in the winter time, took 28 F without any limb damage.  I think Roger is off the mark on this opinion as well.

Harry
Title: Re: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: behlgarden on May 09, 2012, 12:58:46 PM
Harry, then grafting onto my mature would make a lot of sense. would love to get it going as my tree is now pushing for growth and all grafts are being taken. I am not sure about how the scions look at your place though.
Title: Re: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: fruitlovers on May 09, 2012, 04:27:53 PM
Actually Roger emailed me last night and said that he grafted Ilama 5 years ago and it did not survive cold of So. Cal. He wasnt sure if Ilama would survive in So. Cal. Anyone? Temps here could drop to low 30's.

Atemoya is more tropical than Ilama, so if Roger can get the atemoya to survive i bet he can also get the ilama to survive.
Title: Re: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: behlgarden on May 09, 2012, 04:43:02 PM
I think mature trees do survive.

Oscar, I read somewhere that Annona's have life span of 8-10 years where they peak production between 5-9 years, then it starts to decline. What are your thoughts? I posted the manual under separate thread.
Title: Re: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: fruitlovers on May 09, 2012, 04:57:36 PM
I think mature trees do survive.

Oscar, I read somewhere that Annona's have life span of 8-10 years where they peak production between 5-9 years, then it starts to decline. What are your thoughts? I posted the manual under separate thread.

Don't know about peak production in atemoyas. Don't have enough trees to make a conclusion on that. But is seems rather short. I would have thought they produce well for more years than that?
Title: Re: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: behlgarden on May 09, 2012, 05:05:43 PM
http://www.cropsforthefuture.org/publication/Manuals/Annona%20extension%20manual.pdf (http://www.cropsforthefuture.org/publication/Manuals/Annona%20extension%20manual.pdf)
Read here, ver informative
Title: Re: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: Guanabanus on May 09, 2012, 06:13:13 PM
'Genova Red' is an Ilama (Annona diversifolia), a superior red-fleshed variety which originated as a seedling near the Guatemalan town of Genova.
I cut graftwood from that tree in 1988, with Gary Zill.  I had given the variety its current name a year earlier, but my grafts had not taken.  The name includes the word 'red' to distinguish it from another variety--- which I got at the same farm--- which had white flesh, 'Genova White.'
CORNUCOPIA II correctly lists the info that I provided to the author.  There is no controversy!

Let those who insist on calling some green-skinned, white-fleshed atemoya by this variety name, explain what is 'red about it, and how it came to be called "Genova."  Genova where?  Genova, Guatemala is not a source of atemoyas.
Title: Re: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: Jacob13 on May 09, 2012, 08:18:36 PM
Hello Friends,

I thought I'd go ahead and throw this into the mix.  When I bought the "Genova Red" from Roger Meyer, he told me it was an ilama.  When I received it, it was quickly confimed by Forum members that is was not a "Genova Red" ilama, but most likely an Atemoya that was Green in color with White flesh.  When I called Roger to ask him "What's the deal", he told me that the person he got the Budwood from sent him the wrong stuff.  I hate to say it, but he reacted like he already knew what I had called to complain about.  Either way, what he is selling is not the true "Genova Red" ilama, and I think that once this is discovered, he is saying that it is a "Genova Red" Atemoya, to cover his behind.  To further my belief, I have an availibility list from him that states he has the 'Genova Red" ilama, when he really know it is not an ilama, but rather most likely an Atemoya.. 
Title: Re: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: JF on May 09, 2012, 08:42:50 PM
Hello Friends,

I thought I'd go ahead and throw this into the mix.  When I bought the "Genova Red" from Roger Meyer, he told me it was an ilama.  When I received it, it was quickly confimed by Forum members that is was not a "Genova Red" ilama, but most likely an Atemoya that was Green in color with White flesh.  When I called Roger to ask him "What's the deal", he told me that the person he got the Budwood from sent him the wrong stuff.  I hate to say it, but he reacted like he already knew what I had called to complain about.  Either way, what he is selling is not the true "Genova Red" ilama, and I think that once this is discovered, he is saying that it is a "Genova Red" Atemoya, to cover his behind.  To further my belief, I have an availibility list from him that states he has the 'Genova Red" ilama, when he really know it is not an ilama, but rather most likely an Atemoya..

Wow, that's bad news.....he probably got the scion from Steve at Exotica because Steve played the same trick on me. I have not fruited my fake Ilama( Genova Red) atemoya and ASaffron commented that my leaves remind him of a 48-26. I hope it's a Lisa I have one that I just grafted.
Title: Re: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: marklee on May 10, 2012, 01:05:36 AM
I have actually seen the original trees that Exotica has labeled as Red Ilama and one that is labeled as Genova Red, and also one labeled as Red Atemoya. I have tasted the fruit from the "Ilama" and Red Atemoya. They are not Ilamas and the leaves are not "diversifolia" I grafted Red Atemoya and Illama and I believe they are just seedling atemoyas and have had the fruit from these grafts. The only true Illama I have seen has been the one at the Fruit and Spice park in Fllorida and it was blooming with reddish flowers and the characteristic foliage.

Mark in Chula Vista
Title: Re: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: JF on May 10, 2012, 08:08:53 PM
I have actually seen the original trees that Exotica has labeled as Red Ilama and one that is labeled as Genova Red, and also one labeled as Red Atemoya. I have tasted the fruit from the "Ilama" and Red Atemoya. They are not Ilamas and the leaves are not "diversifolia" I grafted Red Atemoya and Illama and I believe they are just seedling atemoyas and have had the fruit from these grafts. The only true Illama I have seen has been the one at the Fruit and Spice park in Fllorida and it was blooming with reddish flowers and the characteristic foliage.

Mark in Chula Vista

Interesting. I saw the original tree at Exotica. It is in the area that is now fenced off near the Okrung Mango. It looks nothing like the grafted Genova Red I have. I have not tried the fruit but there is a possibility that the tree could be a lisa 48-26. Please describe the fruit and if you have any pics can you please post them? Also, how do you know that this is an Atemoya seedling?

JF


Title: Re: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: cuban007 on May 10, 2012, 10:32:40 PM
We should give Roger a break......

JF I was at Exotica and what they had labeled as Red Ilama does not look like a Red Ilama. I bought some budwood and the leaves don't look like Red Ilama. I told them about it but I took them anyaway to test them. I have already grafted them. We will see how they develop.
Title: Re: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: Guanabanus on May 11, 2012, 12:33:45 AM
I bred a cherimoya with a sugar-apple to make the '48---26' (a.k.a. 'Lisa').  So 'Lisa' is an atemoya, not an atemoya seedling.
Title: Re: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: JF on May 11, 2012, 12:40:36 AM
We should give Roger a break......

JF I was at Exotica and what they had labeled as Red Ilama does not look like a Red Ilama. I bought some budwood and the leaves don't look like Red Ilama. I told them about it but I took then anyaway to test them. I have already grafted them. We will see how they develop.

You have seen my fake Ilama from Exotica and I gave some budwood. I wouldn't waste a graft on the faux Ilama. I will fruit it this year and if it's not a Lisa I will remove it and put a real Genova Red in its place.

JF
Title: Re: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: JF on May 11, 2012, 12:42:27 AM
I bred a cherimoya with a sugar-apple to make the '48---26' (a.k.a. 'Lisa').  So 'Lisa' is an atemoya, not an atemoya seedling.

Hi Har

Can you ID a Lisa by its leaves or do I have to wait for the fruit?

JF
Title: Re: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: Guanabanus on May 11, 2012, 12:44:42 AM
Wait for the fruit.
Title: Re: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: JF on May 11, 2012, 12:49:50 AM
Wait for the fruit.

Ok, I've tried the fruit so I know what to look for. Adam said the leaves on my Atemoya looked like a Lisa.

Thanks
JF
Title: Re: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: behlgarden on May 11, 2012, 12:24:37 PM
it looks like Ilama Red is a hot favorite now and there are a lot of seekers of scions. Joe, if you happen to get your hands on it, keep me in mind. I would do the same.
Title: Re: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: marklee on May 13, 2012, 11:35:38 PM
Yes, I realize the Lisa is not an Atemoya seedling, I recall the Exotica fake Ilama having cracking fruit and gold in color which makes me believe it is a Lisa. The one labeled Red Atemoya from Exotica was more conical like a Geffner.
Anyway, I just acquired some real Ilama scions today with a red flower still attached on one piece, and plenty of buds ready to open. I got two varieties, one is said to have come from Mexico with round leaves, the other I assume is a regular Ilama. So much confusion, I grafted them over to some decent sized rootstock, and just for fun side grafted a piece onto the fake Exotica Red Ilama I have in the ground.

Mark in Chula Vista
Title: Re: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: JF on May 14, 2012, 01:11:42 AM
My Red Ilama is growing fast everyday since the graft took a month ago. I had two other annonas grafted on the same rootstock and I removed them. Here is a pic I grafted the scion 2 month ago.

(http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af304/culov/IMG_0213.jpg)
Title: Re: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: Tim on May 14, 2012, 09:30:46 AM
Looking good, Joe.  Find a way to breed that baby with one of your Cherimoyas  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: behlgarden on May 14, 2012, 12:26:45 PM
Joe,

is this the real red ilama OR the one from Roger?
Title: Re: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: JF on May 14, 2012, 08:46:47 PM
Joe,

is this the real red ilama OR the one from Roger?

NO. this is a real annona diversifolia (Genova Red) look at the aerial pics of the new growth it's purple. I am waiting for the red flowers.

(http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af304/culov/IMG_0216.jpg)
(http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af304/culov/IMG_0217.jpg)
(http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af304/culov/IMG_0218.jpg)
Title: Re: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: Guanabanus on May 14, 2012, 09:57:38 PM
Nice photo.
This will be a pink-fleshed Ilama.  Red-fleshed Ilamas have dark red new leaves and dark purple flowers.  White-fleshed Ilamas have entirely green new leaves and petioles and light pink (often mottled) flowers.
Title: Re: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: Jacob13 on May 15, 2012, 04:07:14 AM
Wow Joe

That is Friggin awesome.  That ilama looks so good. Way to go brother.

Jacob
Title: Re: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: behlgarden on May 15, 2012, 04:42:03 PM
now the question is
1. How can I get budwood of read ilama?
2. Will it fruit in So Cal Climate? I live in Corona Hills, 1300 ft elevation.

Anyone growing a fruiting red genova true red ilama in So Cal?
Title: Re: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: JF on May 15, 2012, 08:09:00 PM
now the question is
1. How can I get budwood of read ilama?
2. Will it fruit in So Cal Climate? I live in Corona Hills, 1300 ft elevation.

Anyone growing a fruiting red genova true red ilama in So Cal?

I'll have wood to share maybe next year or ask Oscar.

The Ilama will die in you climate if you plant it....the winter nights are too cold in Corona.

I don't know of anyone who has fruited an Ilama in Socal, maybe Oscar can answer that question better. I've heard of a few unsuccessful attempts in San Diego ( ask Cuban007). Mr. Minh has fruited Rollinas and Custard Apples but never Ilamas.
Title: Re: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: cuban007 on May 16, 2012, 01:07:17 AM
I will get them to fruit...as soon as I get a hold of the real stuff.
Title: Re: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: behlgarden on May 16, 2012, 01:20:27 AM
Daniel I know you would throw that in your garage. LOL
Title: Re: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: luc on July 21, 2012, 01:55:39 PM
Just a general comment on ilama , here they grow wild , together with A. reticulata and squamosa , all in the same altitude/climate. Looks like this year 2012 there will be a good crop.
Title: Re: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: Jacob13 on July 22, 2012, 12:21:17 AM
Hello Friends,

So my "Fake" Genova Red ilama, which is most likely an Atemoya is absolutely loaded with flowers.  I should get a pretty decent number of fruit this year so we will hopefully finally be able to put this whole controversy to rest.  I will post pics of fruit, whole and cut up, as soon as I get them for you all to see and evaluate.  Who knows, maybe it will be good.  What I do know is that the fruit is definitely green and has the shape and appearance of an Atemoya, as this tree has fruited before but didn't make it to maturity so I never got the chance to taste it.  Stay tuned........

Jacob
Title: Re: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: Guanabanus on July 22, 2012, 02:08:56 PM
Jacob,
Please post picture of flowers.
Title: Re: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: JF on July 23, 2012, 10:11:13 PM
The one on the left is an Ilama from SoFL a year old on custard apple rootstock. The one on the right is my La Habra Ilama, from south florida scion, grafted on a cherimoya rootstock 4 months old.

(http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af304/culov/IMG_1908.jpg)
mine
(http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af304/culov/IMG_1909.jpg)

south florida
(http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af304/culov/IMG_1910.jpg)

my graft onto cherimoya
(http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af304/culov/IMG_1912.jpg)
south floridas graft onto custard apple
(http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af304/culov/IMG_1911.jpg)
Title: Re: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: Guanabanus on July 23, 2012, 11:03:35 PM
Beautiful!  I definitely need to try cherimoya rootstock for ilama.
Title: Re: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: Jacob13 on July 24, 2012, 12:33:57 AM
Hello Friends,

Here are pictures of the leaves and flowers of the "Genova Red Atemoya", or the fake "Genova Red" ilama.
(http://i866.photobucket.com/albums/ab222/Choners13/JULY/2012-07-23175023.jpg)
(http://i866.photobucket.com/albums/ab222/Choners13/JULY/2012-07-23175054.jpg)
(http://i866.photobucket.com/albums/ab222/Choners13/JULY/2012-07-23175039-1.jpg)

 - Jacob
Title: Re: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: Guanabanus on July 24, 2012, 10:18:27 PM
Appears to be atemoya, alright!
Title: Re: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: FlyingFoxFruits on March 22, 2014, 11:25:16 PM
.
Title: Re: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: FlyingFoxFruits on September 02, 2015, 12:02:49 PM
I sold out of grafted illamas for the year, (i will graft more this winter).

I have lots of good seeds now, of a delicious red fleshed variety $2 ea.

buy more than 20 seeds and get them for $1.50
Title: Re: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: JonathonForester on April 28, 2017, 11:12:21 AM
Does air layering work for Illama? My neighbor has a tree I'm hand pollinating right now and I'm entertaining the notion of getting my own. I dont have any root stock right now or I would go that way. I do have a young seedling as well so if it doesnt take its not the end of the world. I just dont want to harm the tree unnecessarily.
Title: Re: Ilama (Annona diversifolia)
Post by: JonathonForester on April 28, 2017, 11:14:33 AM
Also, apologies. I thought this was in the general discussion didn't realize it was in Buy?sell/Trade.