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Tropical Fruit => Tropical Fruit Discussion => Topic started by: starling1 on August 05, 2014, 06:06:04 PM

Title: Air pruning pots--opinions?
Post by: starling1 on August 05, 2014, 06:06:04 PM


Tell me what you like about them, don't like about them.
Title: Re: Air pruning pots--opinions?
Post by: Tropicaliste on August 05, 2014, 11:27:32 PM
This may get merged into the other posts on air pots.
Pros:
Works the way it says.

Cons:
You must adjust your potting medium or water more.
The roots grow through, so it must sit on a rack. Even if it's on concrete, it will grow through the bottom some.
If you overwinter, the soil dries out quickly. If the pot's the fabric kind, then it will wick away the moisture slowly unless you're waterning frequently.
Constant water can cause algae and moss to grow on the outside oin the case of fabric air pots.
Doesn't insulate like regular pots.

For all those reasons I've switched to using copper paint. It's cheaper too. :)
Title: Re: Air pruning pots--opinions?
Post by: cos on August 05, 2014, 11:57:27 PM
Thank you Tropicaliste . Outstanding & concise .
Title: Re: Air pruning pots--opinions?
Post by: starling1 on August 06, 2014, 12:29:58 AM
This may get merged into the other posts on air pots.
Pros:
Works the way it says.

Cons:
You must adjust your potting medium or water more.
The roots grow through, so it must sit on a rack. Even if it's on concrete, it will grow through the bottom some.
If you overwinter, the soil dries out quickly. If the pot's the fabric kind, then it will wick away the moisture slowly unless you're waterning frequently.
Constant water can cause algae and moss to grow on the outside oin the case of fabric air pots.
Doesn't insulate like regular pots.

For all those reasons I've switched to using copper paint. It's cheaper too. :)

can you tell me about your soil mixture using rootbuilder type pots?
Title: Re: Air pruning pots--opinions?
Post by: ricshaw on August 06, 2014, 12:32:59 AM
 :(  they are more expensive.
Title: Re: Air pruning pots--opinions?
Post by: bsbullie on August 06, 2014, 12:44:25 AM
I have used and seen used air pruning or accelerator pots.  I have even met the creator of one style of accelerator pot.  While they may have some benefits,  the cons outweigh the pros, IMO.

Pros : prevent roots from circling, girdling and strangling the plant.

Cons: no matter what potting mix you use, the pot loses soil and the level drops over time; soil dries out very quickly;  the weeds have a field day and it is tough and time consuming to remove them; the manner I which the roots grow in g Hess p poo ts can cause the root system to be too weak at times.
Title: Re: Air pruning pots--opinions?
Post by: starling1 on August 06, 2014, 12:46:01 AM
I have used and seen used air pruning or accelerator pots.  I have even met the creator of one style of accelerator pot.  While they may have some benefits,  the cons outweigh the pros, IMO.

Pros : prevent roots from circling, girdling and strangling the plant.

Cons: no matter what potting mix you use, the pot loses soil and the level drops over time; soil dries out very quickly;  the weeds have a field day and it is tough and time consuming to remove them; the manner I which the roots grow in g Hess p poo ts can cause the root system to be too weak at times.

Nobody has mentioned increased oxygen flow yet, which surely must be a pro?
Title: Re: Air pruning pots--opinions?
Post by: bsbullie on August 06, 2014, 12:53:00 AM
Hard to say that they have a benefit. ..I know a nursery with hundreds, or even thousands of them and have seen hundreds of plants grown in them with no man or visible benefit.
Title: Re: Air pruning pots--opinions?
Post by: starling1 on August 06, 2014, 12:56:46 AM
Hard to say that they have a benefit. ..I know a nursery with hundreds, or even thousands of them and have seen hundreds of plants grown in them with no man or visible benefit.

Maybe it depends on the tree?

I'm guessing that black sapote would do really, really well in them as this species has a fibrous root system that strangles quite easily.

Also, I will do anything for more Zills seeds when they're going, including eating a sample of my own dung smeared over a water cracker, if necessary.
Title: Re: Air pruning pots--opinions?
Post by: nullzero on August 06, 2014, 02:09:27 AM
I have used and seen used air pruning or accelerator pots.  I have even met the creator of one style of accelerator pot.  While they may have some benefits,  the cons outweigh the pros, IMO.

Pros : prevent roots from circling, girdling and strangling the plant.

Cons: no matter what potting mix you use, the pot loses soil and the level drops over time; soil dries out very quickly;  the weeds have a field day and it is tough and time consuming to remove them; the manner I which the roots grow in g Hess p poo ts can cause the root system to be too weak at times.

Nobody has mentioned increased oxygen flow yet, which surely must be a pro?

Air pruning containers work well. I like the superoots and the fabric containers. I typical use mostly coco coir in the fabric containers +70%, I find this works well. Since it never rains here I can restrict the moisture in the winter. While the summer, the coco coir holds ample moisture during the hot long days. The fabric containers dry out pretty fast in the summer, so I would not recommend a mix with +15% perlite or high drainage.

Persimmon seedling in 3 gal fabric
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-E7pvi-iFS58/U92VLcSTn4I/AAAAAAAAHBw/VGuExlt07eM/s640/CAM00460.jpg)

Paulista Jabo, believe its a 10 gal superoot
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-pOxjPk0HpOk/U92VBO9VxyI/AAAAAAAAHBY/tDpxwtt3dOc/s640/CAM00464.jpg)

Ugni molinae, 10 gal fabric
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-aL-HJ1olGZI/U92VHnbxd5I/AAAAAAAAHBo/GqHnJBVwgaY/s400/CAM00461.jpg)
Title: Re: Air pruning pots--opinions?
Post by: Tropicaliste on August 06, 2014, 06:46:49 PM
Although I've never tried the superroots pots, opting for the fabric grow bags, when the superroots became available locally, I weighed the pros and cons in my head, and the copper paint still won out. Price wise, it's about 1/4 the price than buying all new superroots pots. More importantly, the problem outlined in my cons list remains, I must overwinter inside and the rootball dries out too fast, the roots grow through the bottom because remember, pots inside means trays inside and the roots grow through the pots into the trays, and lastly the lack of insulating the root ball.

I would point anyone interested in root pruning, to posts by Mark in Texas, and to the following youtube videos by a man named Carlos on channel GraftingAvocadoes, who I believe is a member here as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nADhg-AoRbc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nADhg-AoRbc)
and a review of fabric pots.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTiQ_D_P21E&list=UUbMoLV68ygA6pvno1OGcsUQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTiQ_D_P21E&list=UUbMoLV68ygA6pvno1OGcsUQ)

Lastly the original mix I used when I lost two Lychee airlayers was potting soil, perlite, and pine mulch, then the second plant I lost, for giving the fabric pots a 2nd chance was a mix of peat moss, perlite, and mulch. Lost my Java plum that way. I want to stress that I'm not a person advertising for Microkote, but I've switched to it, and don't plan on going back. Thanks :)


Title: Re: Air pruning pots--opinions?
Post by: bangkok on August 11, 2014, 10:42:03 AM
So it seems that the extra oxygen provided to the roots doesn't make a huge difference in the results?

I think i will use homemade latex/copper inside my pots but i will only paint some lines with it inside the pots.

If roots really won't grow over the copperpaint then i don't see why i have to paint the inside of the pot totally. Also i 'm not very keen to use much copper because it will leak out one day but anything is better then a thick layer of circling roots.
Title: Re: Air pruning pots--opinions?
Post by: Doglips on August 11, 2014, 11:05:38 AM
So it seems that the extra oxygen provided to the roots doesn't make a huge difference in the results?

I think i will use homemade latex/copper inside my pots but i will only paint some lines with it inside the pots.

If roots really won't grow over the copperpaint then i don't see why i have to paint the inside of the pot totally. Also i 'm not very keen to use much copper because it will leak out one day but anything is better then a thick layer of circling roots.
Your potting medium (drainage) is going to have a huge effect on how much air gets to the roots.  Perched water table is a major potted plant killer. 
I think it would be difficult to argue that you don't get increased air flow with root pruners, especially the cloth bags.  I don't think it should the primary motivation for going to them. Change you mix if your worried about air flow.
Title: Re: Air pruning pots--opinions?
Post by: bangkok on August 11, 2014, 12:21:33 PM
So it seems that the extra oxygen provided to the roots doesn't make a huge difference in the results?

I think i will use homemade latex/copper inside my pots but i will only paint some lines with it inside the pots.

If roots really won't grow over the copperpaint then i don't see why i have to paint the inside of the pot totally. Also i 'm not very keen to use much copper because it will leak out one day but anything is better then a thick layer of circling roots.
Your potting medium (drainage) is going to have a huge effect on how much air gets to the roots.  Perched water table is a major potted plant killer. 
I think it would be difficult to argue that you don't get increased air flow with root pruners, especially the cloth bags.  I don't think it should the primary motivation for going to them. Change you mix if your worried about air flow.

Well i 'm only worried about rootcircling, the airflow is easy to control but i thought the extra holes of the superoot pots would let the plants grow faster.

I use citywater full of salts so i don't want the water to evaporate much because the salts will build up.

My plan now is to paint a spiderweb with homemade nutricote inside the pots to stop rootcirdling. It's a big job to do so i hope it will last for many years.
Title: Re: Air pruning pots--opinions?
Post by: Triloba Tracker on August 11, 2014, 02:31:48 PM
I think it all depends on how you use the pots.
I have the Superoots Airpots. I have a 3-foot tall papaya in one, with Al's Gritty Mix as the potting medium. This combination is NOT good for a Papaya outdoors in the summer in Tennessee. I cannot keep the thing watered. Overkill I guess.

I have not un-potted any plants that have grown in the Superoots to inspect the root system.

I am strongly considering moving to "regular" pots with MicroKote or similar coating.
Title: Re: Air pruning pots--opinions?
Post by: buddyguygreen on August 11, 2014, 03:08:08 PM
With the smart pots your always gonna have to water but with my plants like jaboticaba, and camu camu, also mangosteen I put in a saucer about a inch deep with water and it seems to keep them moist for an extra couple days with no watering with fox farm ocean forest soil mixed with some extra peat moss. With the super roots pots the ocean forest soil with the extra peat moss It stays moist for 3 or 4 days with no watering and I have another mangosteen and a durian in those. so you just need soil that holds water good or can draw water up from a water source below. Thats my experience with them but they work good on most plants in building a nice full healthy root system. Thumbs up for me.
Title: Re: Air pruning pots--opinions?
Post by: FRUITBOXHERO on August 11, 2014, 05:58:46 PM
I use Root trapper ii pots and love them, they are ticker then the fabric pots and the roots do not grow outside of the pots! They also last 4 to 5 years here in South Florida, My only problem with them is if you have to pot up then the pot is no good anymore you need to slice it down the side and work the plant out as the roots are trapped  to the side of the pot, So no twist roll & pull! But my trees seem to do better in them they regular nursery pots...Oh and they cost a bit more!
 My neighbor used the fabric recycle bags as pots...Not sure how well that is  going to work out for him, Just 2 trees planted in the last 3-4 months so we will see.But seem like a good cheap option
Title: Re: Air pruning pots--opinions?
Post by: Tropicaliste on August 11, 2014, 06:16:55 PM
Bangkok: The way the copperpaint works is, the root tip reaches the paint, it then tries to absorb the paint, the paint terminates the tip the way air would, and the hairy roots grow out of the main roots. If you don't entirely coat the inside the root tips may grow to where there's no paint. I coat the inside well and according to the Microkote folks, you can resuse the same pot again, the paint doesn't "wash out".

Triloba Tracker: I would recommend you switch ... It's been more economical to buy pots, even decorative pots, paint them and enjoy the same root pruning. I'm not in any way affiliated, just a happy customer, and would recommend to all my friends here switch too ...
Title: Re: Air pruning pots--opinions?
Post by: Triloba Tracker on August 12, 2014, 04:28:59 PM
Triloba Tracker: I would recommend you switch ... It's been more economical to buy pots, even decorative pots, paint them and enjoy the same root pruning. I'm not in any way affiliated, just a happy customer, and would recommend to all my friends here switch too ...

Excellent!  I'm basically on the same wavelength with you. My only hesitation would be the worry about copper somehow "poisoning" the fruit or causing environmental damage.

Do you just order direct from Microkote? I think that's the only way to get that brand.
Title: Re: Air pruning pots--opinions?
Post by: Tropicaliste on August 12, 2014, 08:11:04 PM
Triloba Tracker: I'm not worried. The company says the copper they use is approved for organic growing, it doesn't absorb beyond the terminated root tip. It's on the site. I know they provide coated nursery pots out in Ohio, and I figure the nursery wouldn't let the public buy plants if they didn't trust the Microkote.

I ordered directly from their site, because the 8 ounce was cheaper than horticulturalspecialties.com, but when the hort folks had the sale on the 32 ounce, that was cheaper. That brings me to my only gripe on the product, I should've ordered the 32 ounce, because of my generous coat, the 8 ounce doesn't coat as many of my pots as I'd anticipated. I will wait for when the hort folks put the 32 ounce on sale and buy then.
Title: Re: Air pruning pots--opinions?
Post by: Mark in Texas on August 13, 2014, 08:47:55 AM

Excellent!  I'm basically on the same wavelength with you. My only hesitation would be the worry about copper somehow "poisoning" the fruit or causing environmental damage.

Have used copper hydroxide paints for years, on all kinds of plant material - trees, citrus, veggies, etc.  The copper ions are not translocated into the root system. They are not translocated passed the terminated root tip and the roots are not exposed to the paint as it only affects a centimeter or less space directly adjacent to where it's applied.  If it was taken up by the roots the plant would be harmed or killed due to toxicity issues.

There are very few Cu ions sloughed off to do any environmental damage contrary to the hype some in the air root pruning systems want you to believe....all for the sake of sales of stuff like RootMaker of course.

I also use Dr. Whitcomb's Rootbuilder and have some info and photos on them in a thread.  http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=7511.msg96609#msg96609 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=7511.msg96609#msg96609)

If I had to choose between the most effective root tip pruning method it would be copper hydroxide paints applied to the pot walls/bottom.  Side benefit is no increase in watering or maintenance required.

Mark
Title: Re: Air pruning pots--opinions?
Post by: Mark in Texas on August 13, 2014, 08:52:00 AM
Well i 'm only worried about rootcircling, the airflow is easy to control but i thought the extra holes of the superoot pots would let the plants grow faster.

These products are designed to stop root spin-out.  By terminating the root tip the plant grows a very fibrous, very effective/efficient root system with much great uptake potential in a small volume of soil.  Think "topping" but underground. By terminating the root tip, stopping the tip's apical dominance thingie, you induce the roots to branch behind that point, up to 4" behing, according to Dr. Whitcomb, designer of his RootMaker system.

See this post by ajosin for a cheap way to make your own paint, and do it right.  ;)
Quote

Microkote used to be made under the brand-name SpinOut by Griffin L.L.C. until SePRO bought the rights. After the re-branding they added  other metals labeled as "nutrients". In my opinion this is all marketing; the roots will be stopped and not absorb anything near the Microkote layer - so really the only active ingredient is the chemical that stops the roots from growing further (this chemical is copper hydroxide which was the original ingredient in SpinOut).

Microkote is pricey ($28 for 8oz). But you should be able to make your own.

1) Buy some dry Copper(II) Hydroxide, this is used usually as a fungus pestizide. Interestingly, SePro stuff can be bought on ebay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/CuPRO-5000DF-Fungicide-Bactericide-61-3-Copper-Hydroxide-SePRO-3lb-foil-bag-/370622313276 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/CuPRO-5000DF-Fungicide-Bactericide-61-3-Copper-Hydroxide-SePRO-3lb-foil-bag-/370622313276)), this is probably the same stuff they put into Microkote. Other sources are     
KOCIDE 3000 (made by DuPont) or http://kingquenson.en.alibaba.com/productshowimg/424951536-200579235/Copper_hydroxide.html. (http://kingquenson.en.alibaba.com/productshowimg/424951536-200579235/Copper_hydroxide.html.)
2) Dilute the Copper(II) Hydroxide in latex paint. The original SpinOut was made with 13 oz/Gal of Copper(II) Hydroxide (source: http://hortsci.ashspublications.org/content/28/5/527.6.abstract (http://hortsci.ashspublications.org/content/28/5/527.6.abstract)). Remember to account for the original concentration of dry Copper(II) Hydroxide in the pesticide bag (this is typically 50%, for which you would add 26 oz per Gal of latex paint).

Remember to read all the instructions in the bag when handling pesticides.

This costs about 10x less than buying the Microkote solution which is over-priced and over-marketed (b/c of those extra additive "nutrients") in my opinion.
Title: Re: Air pruning pots--opinions?
Post by: Tropicaliste on August 13, 2014, 10:22:09 AM
Mark in Texas: I was hoping you'd chime in. I was on the fence too about Microkote until I saw your posts. I don't feel comfortable mixing my own, so I bought it from the company.

I'm postings some photos for those interested.

(http://s29.postimg.cc/vi014v3fn/IMG_7808lores_TFF.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/vi014v3fn/)

(http://s27.postimg.cc/9on5jqybz/IMG_7811lores_TFF.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/9on5jqybz/)
Title: Re: Air pruning pots--opinions?
Post by: Triloba Tracker on August 13, 2014, 11:04:44 AM
Tropicaliste - I too am a little doubtful of my own skills in making my own, but who knows, I may try it after all.

How far did your 8oz bottle go? I'm sure the company could give me an estimate but better to hear it from the horse's mouth.

It is WAY more expensive than I seem to remember from my initial looking into it.
Title: Re: Air pruning pots--opinions?
Post by: Mark in Texas on August 13, 2014, 04:23:05 PM
Yeah, MicroKote is a a little pricey.  Pots look good though!  I've always used Griffin's Spin-Out and when I run out, I'll make my own.

Good luck
Title: Re: Air pruning pots--opinions?
Post by: Tropicaliste on August 13, 2014, 06:33:09 PM
No, Microkote isn't the cheapest. I did the math though. The 8 ounce including the shipping was about $25. My local source for super roots pots charges about 5 or 6 $ for 1 1gal pot. The 8 ounces has so far coated 3 2gal, about 5 1gal, about 8 1/2gal, and some small green pots, and still enough to coat more left. Not to mention, the problems listed on the above Cons. Find a friend and split the 32 ounce ... :)
Title: Re: Air pruning pots--opinions?
Post by: bangkok on August 13, 2014, 08:33:47 PM
Yeah, MicroKote is a a little pricey.  Pots look good though!  I've always used Griffin's Spin-Out and when I run out, I'll make my own.

Good luck

Mark it was 100 gram copper in 1 litre latex right? I forgot to bookmark your recipe.

I have 2 litre indoor latex now, the basic one, not the washable version and i hope it's enough for about 20 huge pots.
Title: Re: Air pruning pots--opinions?
Post by: Mark in Texas on August 14, 2014, 07:27:16 AM
Mark it was 100 gram copper in 1 litre latex right? I forgot to bookmark your recipe.

Try returning to the previous page LOL.  :) 
Title: Re: Air pruning pots--opinions?
Post by: bangkok on August 14, 2014, 11:45:05 AM
Mark it was 100 gram copper in 1 litre latex right? I forgot to bookmark your recipe.

Try returning to the previous page LOL.  :)

Turmeric helps against alzheimer, that's why in India nobody has that disease. ;D

If i remember correctly it was 10% copper of the total weight, so that's what i will try.
Title: Re: Air pruning pots--opinions?
Post by: Mark in Texas on August 14, 2014, 03:27:02 PM

Turmeric helps against alzheimer, that's why in India nobody has that disease. ;D

My name is Mark.  Glad to meet you.
Title: Re: Air pruning pots--opinions?
Post by: bangkok on August 21, 2014, 07:51:20 PM
If one grows a seedling tree in a rootpruning or micro-cote treated pot  then the rootsystem will be pruned all the time and give a dense small rootball. But what happens if that tree will be planted in full soil? Can a tree with such a rootsystem be planted on top of a drain in full soil?

I would think thats no problem because better have 1000 small roots around the drainpipe instead of a huge fat one who can lift or break the pipe. . ?

Title: Re: Air pruning pots--opinions?
Post by: SeaWalnut on April 27, 2019, 06:10:13 PM
The price of airpots its the biggest dissadvantage and its true that they loose soil from the top and needs added periodically.I found a way to build my own airpots from polypropilene plastic sheets used for construction( concrete casting) and they are put together with pop rivets.The first 12 centimeters on the top of the pot has no holes because it will leak the water out immediatly as you pour it.These are my pecan seedlings in my homemade airpots.(https://i.postimg.cc/Hk3CkVbr/IMG-20181031-124202.jpg)
Title: Re: Air pruning pots--opinions?
Post by: tve on April 27, 2019, 11:57:51 PM
interesting! How tall are these pots?
Title: Re: Air pruning pots--opinions?
Post by: SeaWalnut on April 28, 2019, 12:17:48 AM
70 cm or so tall ( 2 feet) .
Title: Re: Air pruning pots--opinions?
Post by: tve on May 13, 2019, 01:46:17 AM
I found a way to build my own airpots from polypropilene plastic sheets used for construction( concrete casting) and they are put together with pop rivets.
What type of product did you use? I looked at concrete forms and couldn't find anything similar. What is the original use of the PP sheet?
Title: Re: Air pruning pots--opinions?
Post by: SeaWalnut on May 13, 2019, 04:12:01 AM
In english its called dimpled membrane and its made of HDPE not PP .Its used for drainage over basement or building foundations.Every home depot like shop here has it for sale.It doesnt have holes but i made them easy by adding manny layers and drill through all of them at once. https://kent.ca/65-6-x-6-chocolate-brown-dimpled-membrane1021758#
Title: Re: Air pruning pots--opinions?
Post by: tve on May 13, 2019, 12:37:26 PM
Interesting, I'll have to see whether I can get that here. Looks like the type of product that US construction might discover in the next century...  :o

Update: I looked into the specs of two manufacturers and I didn't see anything about UV resistance, which makes sense given that these membranes are designed to be installed underground. I'm not a plastic expert, but as far as I know, UV resistance doesn't come for free, it requires relatively expensive additives. Plastic without such additives breaks down after 6-9 months in the California sun. Unless I'm missing something, that kills this idea for me  :'(.
Title: Re: Air pruning pots--opinions?
Post by: SeaWalnut on May 13, 2019, 01:57:36 PM
Interesting, I'll have to see whether I can get that here. Looks like the type of product that US construction might discover in the next century...  :o

Update: I looked into the specs of two manufacturers and I didn't see anything about UV resistance, which makes sense given that these membranes are designed to be installed underground. I'm not a plastic expert, but as far as I know, UV resistance doesn't come for free, it requires relatively expensive additives. Plastic without such additives breaks down after 6-9 months in the California sun. Unless I'm missing something, that kills this idea for me  :'(.
i keep them outdoor and in full sun .The plastic its verry thin but on the most exposed parts looks like new,didnt discolored or lost flexibility.Only a single pot has a dimple that cracked and i toght its because of UV radiation but its not because its almost in the shade.If kept in a greenhouse then the UV its filtered or best would be to keep them in the shade .They are made for constructions and are a tough material.
Title: Re: Air pruning pots--opinions?
Post by: tve on May 13, 2019, 02:54:33 PM
Interesting, I'll have to see whether I can get that here. Looks like the type of product that US construction might discover in the next century...  :o

Update: I looked into the specs of two manufacturers and I didn't see anything about UV resistance, which makes sense given that these membranes are designed to be installed underground. I'm not a plastic expert, but as far as I know, UV resistance doesn't come for free, it requires relatively expensive additives. Plastic without such additives breaks down after 6-9 months in the California sun. Unless I'm missing something, that kills this idea for me  :'(.
i keep them outdoor and in full sun .The plastic its verry thin but on the most exposed parts looks like new,didnt discolored or lost flexibility.Only a single pot has a dimple that cracked and i toght its because of UV radiation but its not because its almost in the shade.If kept in a greenhouse then the UV its filtered or best would be to keep them in the shade .They are made for constructions and are a tough material.
Interesting. For how long have you had this stuff outside in the sun?
Title: Re: Air pruning pots--opinions?
Post by: SeaWalnut on May 13, 2019, 07:52:22 PM
Almost 2 years.Ive read that somme are UV resistant,otthers are not( one manufacturer said not to expose it in full sun for more than 6 weeks).If you keep them in the shade as it should be ,because weeds like to grow from each hole of the pots ,its should be ok and last a long time. My pots got strong sun and the most exposed part look like new( its flexible) and right next to them i have my deep well wich had a plastic rope that has attached the submersible pump and i replaced manny ropes over the years because they got damage from UV.This year i installed a galvanised steel rope with plastic coating and i welded a metalic suport so that the full length of the rope stays inside the well in the shade.
Title: Re: Air pruning pots--opinions?
Post by: tve on May 13, 2019, 09:57:59 PM
Well, so far the ones I've looked at state "do not expose to sunlight for more than X months" where X is pretty small. :-(
Did you get the Dörken Delta MS by any chance?
Title: Re: Air pruning pots--opinions?
Post by: SeaWalnut on May 13, 2019, 11:40:31 PM
Isostud its the brand i use.The cost its 25 dollars per 20 X 1m.
Title: Re: Air pruning pots--opinions?
Post by: tve on May 14, 2019, 12:20:40 AM
Interesting: "Powerdrain Isostud must be backfilled within 15 days of installation to protect the membrane from prolonged exposure to UV rays."
At that price it's worth experimenting, though!
Title: Re: Air pruning pots--opinions?
Post by: SeaWalnut on May 14, 2019, 07:28:11 AM
Interesting: "Powerdrain Isostud must be backfilled within 15 days of installation to protect the membrane from prolonged exposure to UV rays."
At that price it's worth experimenting, though!
Today i looked at them to take a picture for forrum ,and after i pulled the most exposed part ,it cracked a little on top only.Its not UV resistant but its a cheap material and its resistant over time if kept in the shadow.My pots are better than the airpots for sale, for a narrow and tall volume because you can see in the pictures they dont have holes in the upper part so that the water doesnt leak out of the pot too fast.But it was a bad idea after a closer look at the trees ,most of them are dead ,probably because i didnt watered them for half a year and pecans like wet soil.Bad news to find out that my seedlings of wild and northern pecans died.I scratched the bark on every tree and 14 are still green but they didnt leafed out as they should by now.Maybe inside a greenhouse these air pots work but not outside and not with pecans.(https://i.postimg.cc/L652WLHX/20190514-133403.jpg)
Title: Re: Air pruning pots--opinions?
Post by: tve on May 14, 2019, 12:20:19 PM
Boooo  :'(, thanks for posting the update! I just ordered two Air Pots, and 7 Ultra Oxy Pots. I'm trying to get 10 pots from Litgrow, which would be the cheapest source. I'll run my own (no scientific) experiment to see whether I like this type of pot. I don't quite understand the huge price difference when compared to normal pots...
Title: Re: Air pruning pots--opinions?
Post by: Seanny on May 14, 2019, 04:28:12 PM
Air-pot don't have holes in the top 2". Thick UV resistant plastic.
The best I have.
Title: Re: Air pruning pots--opinions?
Post by: spaugh on May 14, 2019, 06:55:39 PM
Seems like it would be difficult to get plants out of an air pot with all the bumps and verticle walls.  You take a tree in a regular pot and turn it over and tap the pot and it slips right off.  I like to turn my plants over and slip the pot off sometimes to look at the root system and see if its time to up pot or plant out. 
Title: Re: Air pruning pots--opinions?
Post by: SeaWalnut on May 14, 2019, 07:36:23 PM
Only 2 inch without holes on the upper part its too little for such long and narrow pots like mein are.Also my pots are also verry resistant,one single pot weights 15-16 kilos.
For planting to the ground i will open the pot by cutting it. The idea its to have a strong and long tap root for pecans that will go deep when transplanted to the soil ,where its always wet.Air prunning roots for pecans its an idea older than the modern airpots with hooles to the sides and such pecan pots only used to have no base where the tap root got air prunned(no holes to the sides).
Ive used sewage pipes as airpots,they are shown in the pics in the end of the pecan collection.
For me it was a bad idea because i couldnt water in the winter,they got dry and most of them died.I hope i can salvage a few that if they do survive,should be really drought tolerant and even cold hardy as they got minus 15C(0 F) and frozen solid.
Title: Re: Air pruning pots--opinions?
Post by: tve on May 15, 2019, 01:14:58 AM
Seems like it would be difficult to get plants out of an air pot with all the bumps and verticle walls.  You take a tree in a regular pot and turn it over and tap the pot and it slips right off.  I like to turn my plants over and slip the pot off sometimes to look at the root system and see if its time to up pot or plant out. 
Don't you just remove the "button" that holds the air pot together and then unwrap the sidewall?
Title: Re: Air pruning pots--opinions?
Post by: SeaWalnut on May 15, 2019, 04:40:06 AM
The tap root of a pecan seedling from an air pot.It did the job but it also killed most if not all of my pecans.(https://i.postimg.cc/pd9tmbFN/20190515-092803.jpg)
Title: Re: Air pruning pots--opinions?
Post by: Mark in Texas on May 15, 2019, 02:38:11 PM
My pots are better than the airpots for sale, for a narrow and tall volume because you can see in the pictures they dont have holes in the upper part so that the water doesnt leak out of the pot too fast.But it was a bad idea after a closer look at the trees ,most of them are dead ,probably because i didnt watered them for half a year and pecans like wet soil.Bad news to find out that my seedlings of wild and northern pecans died.I scratched the bark on every tree and 14 are still green but they didnt leafed out as they should by now.Maybe inside a greenhouse these air pots work but not outside and not with pecans.(https://i.postimg.cc/L652WLHX/20190514-133403.jpg)

Airpots will work indoors and out by terminating the root tip via light and air.  If you don't have holes, you have root spin out.  I've posted a very large and old tree in a RootBuilder "pot"  (actually it's a raised bed) that was a good 25' in diameter, never to be moved from that site.

Your pots need to be much wider to be effective regarding building a massive fibrous root system.

Being that the rootball is fibrous and there's no roots at the perimeter of a pot trees come out of these pots much easier than conventional.
Title: Re: Air pruning pots--opinions?
Post by: Mark in Texas on May 15, 2019, 02:45:49 PM
The tap root of a pecan seedling from an air pot.It did the job but it also killed most if not all of my pecans.(https://i.postimg.cc/pd9tmbFN/20190515-092803.jpg)

I and the forest service has been using root tip pruning systems for decades.  I've never lost anything in them.  Something else is going on like your watering schedule.
Title: Re: Air pruning pots--opinions?
Post by: SeaWalnut on May 15, 2019, 04:32:36 PM
I agree it was my fault for the watering schedule and not the type of pots but in winter ,the water freezes here thats why i couldnt wet them.Water freezed in the pots and evaporated through the holes because frost weather makes a verry dry enviroment.Somme people dry their clothes outdoor by freezing where they first freeze solid.Thats what happened to my pots and these pots altough they are made from a cheap material ,they are unique and i dont think youl find such tall pots ,70 cm tall and narrow that will also have holes to the sides.The air pruning pots used by forest services only have the base cut out and they are not that tall as my pots.
Title: Re: Air pruning pots--opinions?
Post by: Seanny on May 15, 2019, 08:21:24 PM
I read Whitman's 4" rule and I followed it.
I used 4" diameter pots for seedlings.
I realized that it made no sense to have 2" for side root growth when it should have been 4".

Now I use 8" diameter pots to start seedlings.
I'm raising air-pot bottom disk up to 6" from top
so I'll get 4" of soil and 2" for solid pot to hold water.

(https://i.postimg.cc/94Jf9ZwC/IMG-7201.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/94Jf9ZwC)


If I buy more pots for seedlings I would choose 10" diameter.