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Messages - Sylvain

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1
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citsuma Prague
« on: July 17, 2017, 06:43:58 PM »
Thank you Ilya, very interesting. So we have some chance to obtain something new!  :)
We shall see in two years. One to root the cuttings and one to grow the roots adventices.

2
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citsuma Prague
« on: July 17, 2017, 09:15:53 AM »
Quote
Tomorrow I shall start rooting many  cuttings...
Done.

Quote
If I am right we might obtain a copy PMP or a very near form MMP (without thorns!).
The MMP could be less cold hardy than PMP.
I don't know from which layer the new L1 is created...
From https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC160199/pdf/041089.pdf It seems that the shoots are made of F2 or F3.
It means we should obtain MMM and PPP.
No MMP without thorns.  :'(

3
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citsuma Prague
« on: July 14, 2017, 07:23:32 PM »
Yes I already thought that. It eliminates the L1 if I remember well.
To root cuttings must not be difficult. I shall do it.
What seems harder is to recreate a plant starting from roots only...
I have seen it many times append naturally but never did it in purpose.

If I am right we might obtain a copy PMP or a very near form MMP (without thorns!).
The MMP could be less cold hardy than PMP.
I don't know from which layer the new L1 is created...

Tomorrow I shall start rooting many  cuttings... :-)

4
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citsuma Prague
« on: July 14, 2017, 06:30:32 AM »
Prague is a chimera of a large flowers poncirus (because I saw it) and a mandarin. The kind of mandarin is not known. We speculate that it is a satsuma because it was found in Prague and the fruits are seedless but the rind doesn't easily separate from the pulp (at least it is not so easy as for satsuma).

We can go farther. It is a periclinal chimera because of the leaves patern and a high stability.
The tree is thorny when poncirus are and mandarins are not. This character is carried by the first layer L1. It means the first layer is from Poncirus L1=P.
The fruit is pure mandarin and the leave margin is evergreen, it means the second layer is mandarin: L2=M.
The leaves center changes in autumn which means L3 is poncirus: L3=P.
So it seems that the periclinal chimerism is of the PMP type.

5
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Growing lemons from seed?
« on: July 11, 2017, 11:25:16 AM »
nucellular ( true from seeds)  ;)

6
> Is oryzaline less dangerous?
Yes much less dangerous but don't drink it. ;-)

7
There is a DIY way to obtain triploids. Just grow the small seeds that you usually discard.
They are hard to grow but a significant number are triploid.

There is a (nearly) simple way to obtain tetraploids using oryzaline.
Here I show how I did ( Sorry it is for register people only , it's in french and the picture are long to load...):
http://www.agrumes-passion.com/experimentations-agrumes-f70/topic4547.html

8
> It seems the thing to look for in the leaf is not more, but less stomata per area and larger guard cells, when compared to normal diploid leaves...
Yes, that's right.

9
Mikkel, the document is not public: "Your authentication to this fulltext delivery has expired. Please go back and try again by logging back into the site and requesting the document."

In this thread we see many speculations or guessing but poofs are missing...

10
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citsuma Prague
« on: June 24, 2017, 06:48:55 AM »
You can find flowers all over the warm seasons but main flowers times are spring (one month after poncirus) and now.
Fruits of the first bloom will be ripe before the first freezes but the ones of the second bloom will have to be protected.

At this time of the year, the fruits of the first bloom are marble size.

11
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: hybrids with precocious Poncirus
« on: June 04, 2017, 11:32:02 AM »
No, I received no mail.
Where did you try? In PM here or on the French forum or in my personal email?

12
Citrus General Discussion / Re: What's wrong with my Tangelo tree?
« on: June 04, 2017, 02:07:49 AM »
But first take out the grass at the bottom of the plant!
It takes all the nitrogen  of your fertilizer.

13
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Strange citrus hybrid
« on: June 02, 2017, 04:39:57 PM »
I totally agree.

14
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: hybrids with precocious Poncirus
« on: June 02, 2017, 05:27:19 AM »
> I don`t want to overestimate this but I feel a bit offended. Do I get you wrong
Yes completely wrong.

Where did you ask me? On a forum or by mail?
I cannot speak freely on this forum. I have already been censored.
It's why my answers are so short and abstruse.
It is better if you contact me by mail.

15
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: hybrids with precocious Poncirus
« on: June 01, 2017, 12:33:19 PM »
My C. wintersii are not of hybrid offspring.

16
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: hybrids with precocious Poncirus
« on: June 01, 2017, 12:30:13 PM »
Mikkel,

> He suggested the use of C.wintersii/M.papuana as a substitute for C.wakonai even if it is of hybrid offspring. With selfing/inbreeding one could stabilize the precocious trait and go then for hybrids with other Citrus.
What arguments Malcom S. gave to prefer C. wintersi to C. wakonai?

Simply. It is not available.
It depends for who.

17
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: hybrids with precocious Poncirus
« on: May 30, 2017, 05:16:56 PM »
Mikkel,

> He suggested the use of C.wintersii/M.papuana as a substitute for C.wakonai even if it is of hybrid offspring. With selfing/inbreeding one could stabilize the precocious trait and go then for hybrids with other Citrus.
What arguments Malcom S. gave to prefer C. wintersi to C. wakonai?

18
The theory of nodes count is just a fake news.  ;D

19
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citsuma Prague
« on: April 27, 2017, 06:54:13 PM »
> Sylvain, your plant has a nice, tall trunk. Did it form that all by itself or did you prune it that way?
It is the rootstock (poncirus).

20
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citsuma Prague
« on: April 22, 2017, 07:23:03 PM »
Radoslav, the one we have is not the Chimere no.19. On our plants the leaves are smaller than the fruits and the fruits are spherical not depressed at the apex.
And yes, it looks like flying dragon. For years mine behaved like this. It is only since two years that it started to grow upright.
Voss, Brosa, Snek, Ilya and I have the same plant. On the pictures there is no doubt.

Could you take a picture of the one witch still remains in the greenhouse in university of Prague? This way I could tell you if it's the same plant than the one we have.

21
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citsuma Prague
« on: April 22, 2017, 07:01:34 AM »
It was from Petr Broza. At this time (2008/2009) we were only three (with B. Voss who found it) to have it.

22
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citsuma Prague
« on: April 21, 2017, 06:24:15 PM »
I came back home late and the light isn't good. :(

The tree:


Growing strait toward the sky:




Velvet fruit:


Regular fruit:


The first years the flowers were very small and irregular, with the time the flowers stabilize with three petals:


The seedlings:




Does someone dare to say it is not a chimera?

23
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citsuma Prague
« on: April 21, 2017, 04:50:43 AM »
Yes, I have three seedlings growing.

24
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citsuma Prague
« on: April 20, 2017, 07:32:13 AM »
Quote
It has grown pretty well but it seems it wants to grow in all directions but upwards.
After few years the shoots go strait to the sky.

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Sylvain in Dordogne have very nice plant, almost 2 meters high , producing sweet fruits of very good quality.
The tallest is now 2.50m. The second one is about 2m high and last year I made a third that is a little less than 2m. The last one is an over-graft on a '5 stars' grafted on PT. It is very vigorous.

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Leaves are  a mixture of bi- tri- or monofoliates.
Like shown on the Ilya11's picture bifoliate and trifoliates are very rare. Most are deformed monofoliates.

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The fruits are almost satsuma like
Not 'almost', they are pure satsuma fruits.

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There is suspicion that it is a chimera between poncirus and satsuma
For me there is no doubt, it is a chimera.
This spring one very big flower appeared just at the same time than the poncirus flowers. Looking exactly the same. The Prague chimeras bloom nearly one month later with small flowers. The fruitlet issued from this flower is already big and have a velvet skin.
Now we know that the poncirus that made the chimera is of the large flowers kind.
Last year I had one seed from the fruits (the first one). It gave three seedlings that are pure mandarins.

Quote
It could be this variety in UCR collection
I don't think so. The fruits are very different. This one looks more like an orange than like a mandarin.




25
For me Yuzu has the best smell and makes the best cello (yuzucello).

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