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Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: Asiminaholics Anonymous
« on: February 03, 2018, 12:53:37 PM »
2017 was a discouraging year for my pawpaws. My huge crop of seeds from fall 2016 had abysmal germination rates. 8-10 successful germinations out of at least 200 seeds. I suspect this was because I left the seeds in the fridge too long, spending 5-6 months in the refrigerator while I went to Spain last winter. And during the fall this year, those few trees that grew were cut down by a hungry squirrel who was looking for nuts among my baby pecan trees. I was left with a single surviving pawpaw seedling, which I have used as a guinea pig for an experiment.

I took my lone survivor inside and grew him on the windowsill away from any savage squirrels for the remainder of the 2017 growing season. When his leaves fell off, I put him in the refrigerator for 6 weeks in order to simulate winter and achieve the 1000 chill hours required to break dormancy in deciduous trees. The lone survivor went into hibernation in mid November and on Christmas evening I took him out. For a month, nothing happened despite his pampered existence sandwiched between bright growing lights and a toasty heating mat. I thought his stint in the fridge might have killed him after two weeks of nothing, but I soon saw an encouraging glimmer of green life underneath the thick pubescence of his terminal bud. Now that bud has finally broken, giving proof that the last pawpaw of 2016 still lives. This fridge-induced hypersleep cut the seedling's dormancy down to about a third of its normal duration, giving him a 2-3 month head start on the 2018 growing season over the wild pawpaws here. This was a resounding success and I'm going to have to try it with all of my fruit and nut trees.

My 2017 seed have finished stratifying, and so far their germination rates are very encouraging. I'm already seeing 40% germination on my first batch of pawpaw seeds. Looking forward to a much better year for pawpaws in 2018.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Cherimoya from High Andes
« on: February 03, 2018, 08:15:29 AM »
Hello all. I am looking for cherimoyas from the absolute coldest part of their native range, which would appear to be the Andes Mountains of Bolivia and Peru. Does anyone know how I might be able to source cherimoya seeds from this part of the world?

I've heard of Lonicera kamtschatica before and it looks pretty interesting - what's the flavor like? I'm sure it would grow well here, as Loniceras tend to thrive here. A little too well, in fact; we already have several invasive asiatic Lonicera species wreaking havoc on our floral communities. I'd hate to be the guy who brings  the next invasive honeysuckle over here.

Any other Americans growing L. kamtschatica? Is it as potentially-invasive as I suspect it is?

Upon close examination of the young leaf, it looks like the browning may just be excessive pubescence. If you look closely at the axillary buds on the leaf nodes further down the plant, you can see more of this browning which seems consistent with pubescence, and you can also see some brown fuzz along the margin of the uppermost developed leaf. The fact that only a few of your pawpaws are developing this bronzing suggests that you may just have a really hairy genotype on your hands. Probably nothing to worry about, but I'd keep an eye on the baby leaves until you can see they are developing healthily.

Best of luck with your seedlings.

I have ~200 stratified pawpaw seeds from trees in Kentucky and Tennessee.

Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: 2016 Wild Pawpaw Watch thread
« on: September 15, 2016, 08:27:28 AM »
So what are your plans for all the seeds you're collecting?

The ones I keep are going to spend the next 100 days in a big bag of moist peat moss in the fridge like I did with last year's. The first batches will be ready for sowing by mid-December. If last year's pattern holds, I should get the first sprouts sometime in February. Last year's seedlings didn't fare so well because I was out of town so long and I couldn't take care of them. An earlier start and better planning should alleviate this.

The rest I'm going to send off to other people who want to try growing them. I might also use them to trade for some rare seeds, as pawpaw seeds seem to be highly sought-after on this site.

Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: 2016 Wild Pawpaw Watch thread
« on: September 14, 2016, 03:58:52 PM »
I am pleased to report that pawpaw season is in full swing here in Kentucky. Looking for fruiting trees all spring and summer has paid off, because now I know exactly where to find fruits. I've been keeping notes on which trees produce the best tasting and highest quality fruit. It's surprising just how much variety there is. I've already eaten about 10 or so pawpaws this year - by far the most I've ever had in one season - and I am really surprised by how variable the flavor can be. Even among trees a few yards apart, there is often significant difference in taste. I've had some really delicious fruits and a handful of really inferior fruits as well. No matter to me - it's all just more seeds for me. I've probably collected about 100 so far and I'm hoping to get at least twice that many. I'm hoping to get enough seeds this year to give a few out to anyone wanting to try their hand at cultivating them.

Also worth noting is the fact that a coworker offered to send me the coordinates of holler in Eastern KY where he claims you can harvest pawpaws by the truckload. It'd be a hike out there, but I'm really thinking about taking an expedition out there to find the motherlode.

Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: 2016 Wild Pawpaw Watch thread
« on: August 22, 2016, 12:22:30 PM »
Awesome finds. I've never heard of pawpaws getting that ripe before; I bet possums and deer tend to snarf them down well before that point in the wild.

The fact you had such ripe fruits so early made me a little nervous, so I took a trip to a local patch to make sure mine weren't dropping. I hadn't looked at them since Memorial Day, but they were all completely turgid and had no give at all. I'm guessing they'll be ripe in about 3-4 weeks. There were way more than I remembered seeing last time, but they were tiny. Saw one cluster of 5, which is the most I've ever seen in one bunch. They may not be the best eating, but I should get plenty of seeds out of them, which is what I'm most interested in.

Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
« on: June 08, 2016, 09:16:25 PM »
My transplanted plants have grown very little since I last checked them about a month ago. I suspect these plants may be setting down a large root system rather than growing above ground.

The vines at the property where I collected my seeds from are growing rapidly. I counted perhaps 6-7 individual plants with numerous flower buds; good news for anyone interested in more of these seeds.

As for your beetle, my best guess would probably be a soldier beetle species (Chauliognathus spp.) As for organic remedies, a trick I use to ward off Japanese Beetles is to collect several of the insects, grind them into a gritty pulp with a stone or brick, and then smear their remains on and around the foliage of the plants that they were eating off of. It seemed fairly effective for that particular species at least. Many beetles have very keen senses of "smell" and are able to detect minute quantities of pheromones from their own species. Allowing these beetles to get a whiff of their dead brothers and sisters might make them think twice about making a meal of your maypops.

Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
« on: April 22, 2016, 01:48:29 PM »
Crazy that you got flowers so early. Mine show no sign of producing buds yet, but that could change when I put them in the ground at long last this weekend. Flowering and fruiting is extremely energy-intensive on a plant, so if you're trying to get a large, healthy plant that can cover a fence, then you've made the right call in pruning flowers.

Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: 2016 Wild Pawpaw Watch thread
« on: March 27, 2016, 09:24:36 AM »
I was out kayaking Friday and saw a few trees. Most of them had flower buds, but they were very young and very small - maybe half as large as a pinky-nail. I imagine I might see the first male stage flowers next weekend.

Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
« on: March 24, 2016, 09:54:50 PM »
The leaf shape seems consistent with the trident-shape maypop leaves have.

Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: Is this a seedling or a sucker?
« on: March 22, 2016, 10:00:08 PM »
I'd say it's probably a sucker off the original tree. Prunus species seem to like to sucker out.

Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: 2016 Wild Pawpaw Watch thread
« on: March 19, 2016, 01:23:07 PM »
Gorgeous flowers. Everything about these plants is awesome.

If you're getting flowers now, I expect we'll see our first flowers up here shortly. I'll make an expedition to the known spots next weekend and see if there is any pollen to collect. Might be a good time to go through your notes from last year to see how you pollinated.

Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: Asiminaholics Anonymous
« on: March 19, 2016, 01:11:35 PM »
Once again, I've put too little faith in these seeds.

I checked my first batch of pawpaw seeds that came out of stratification back in January this morning. To my extreme surprise and satisfaction, I found a little white taproot showing through the container! I immediately dug the little guy out of the sphagnum and gave him a new home in a nice, deep container full of mycorhizae-inoculated potting mix. I can't believe how long these guys take just to germinate; it's been nearly 50 days since these guys finished stratifying and right after I ordered and planted year-old whips, of course.

Anyway, I'm chalking this experiment as a success. With any luck he'll be ready to plant around late May. In the meantime, I'll be watching carefully for germination from the pecans or other ~50 pawpaws. Here's hoping this seed is the first of many to sprout.

Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: 2016 Wild Pawpaw Watch thread
« on: March 14, 2016, 09:24:08 PM »
I'd welcome other folks in other locales to post here when they see their first pawpaw flowers.

Kentucky reporting for duty.

If memory serves correctly, I saw flowers around mid-April last year in this area. I've read that plant leafing/florescence moves northward at a rate of 17 miles per day, which leads me to believe you should expect flowers in early April. However, it's shaping up to be an early spring this year, and I have a feeling the trees may flower earlier this year. I'll be watching this thread carefully over the next few weeks.

Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: Asiminaholics Anonymous
« on: March 14, 2016, 09:17:31 PM »
I really appreciate the offer, Triloba. Between the whips I just planted over the weekend, the seeds I just started, and the old ones, I should have my hands full this growing season.

I'll have to check out Moore's book, btw.

Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: Asiminaholics Anonymous
« on: March 10, 2016, 10:32:09 AM »
Unfortunately, the seeds I so diligently stratified have not germinated at all after a generous six weeks. I've got another batch coming out of stratification in a few days, but because they froze during shipping/sitting in the mailbox one night, I don't have high hopes for them either.As such, I've just about given up on the stratification project.

I broke down a few days ago and bought some bare-root whips online for a very reasonable price. Lets hope I have better luck with these. I'll also be keeping an eye out for flowers on local specimens around early April to see if I can pollinate a few more fruits this year with the hopes of harvesting seeds to distribute to prospective growers overseas.

Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: Passion Flower "Iridescence"
« on: February 26, 2016, 04:08:58 PM »
I just got ~50 lilikoi seeds in the mail courtesy of barath, which I believe is a cultivar of edulis. Sounds like I've got everything I need to make my own flavor of Iridescence.

Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: Passion Flower "Iridescence"
« on: February 15, 2016, 10:38:06 PM »
This is the first I'd ever heard of this cultivar. I had read that many attempts at hybridization among the Passifloras result in sterile "mules". One of the things I'd like to try with my incarnata seedlings is cross-pollinate them with one of the more tropical species and see if I can get anything cool out of it. Sounds like this guy might have had the same idea. Keep us posted on its progress.

Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
« on: February 12, 2016, 05:43:53 PM »
Update on my maypops, as well as a correction.

It turned out that my germination rate was substantially lower than I anticipated. When I reported that the germination rate was 80%, I was apparently seeing my second wave of non-baked seedlings coming up which had been mixed with my "baked" seeds. In hindsight, mixing two treatment groups was a very unscientific thing to do, but I really did not expect any of that first batch to ever germinate so I didn't see the harm in putting the new batch in the same soil. Of the total 20 seeds I attempted, only 10 sprouted, resulting in a 50% germination rate. Soaking the seeds didn't seem to have any discernible effect on germination. And high temperatures are obviously tolerated. I'd agree that 80-85 F is an ideal germination temperature.

The main difference between my seeds and Triloba Tracker's are the stratification times. Triloba's seeds stratified for three months whereas mine stratified for only five weeks. The obvious conclusion seems to be that stratification is a bigger deal than I ever anticipated. I was under the impression that Passiflora incarnata didn't really need the long stratification period, but it would seem I've been mistaken. It is worth noting that these seeds were collected from wild specimens in southern Illinois - just about as far north as one can find P. incanata in their native range. Seeds from that area might be evolutionarily inclined to need stratification more than from a specimen from Alabama or Texas . For maximum germination, I would suggest 90 days of cold and moist stratification. 35-40 days is probably the bare minimum for a stratification period.

Even so, 10 plants was more than plenty for me and I gave three of them away to a friend. The ones that have sprouted are coming along very nicely. Got a good fluorescent lamp for them and future seedlings (hoping to use it for some pawpaw and cherimoya seedlings before the month is out). Using the lamp for 12 hours has really sped up their growth, all the cotyledons are nice and green and the older seedlings have put out 1-2 true leaves out. Looking forward to warm weather to plant them outside.

Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
« on: February 02, 2016, 01:28:48 AM »
A regular fluorescent shop light will work well for seedlings . You just need to keep the plants as close to the bulbs as you can. I use one for growing seedlings with good results. Just rig up an easy way to move the lights or the plants.

Good luck and keep up the good work

Thanks. I'll just get a cheap desk lamp with a 100 w fluorescent and aim it right down on them. The sunlight doesn't seem to be cutting it. The angle of the sun and the placement a building to the south limits the amount of sunlight the seedlings can get at this time of the year.


This first batch of yours - were they all subjected to the high heat?

I have 12 other seeds in another tray that are about a week old, maybe a little more. They are being kept at mid 70's temperature, and so far there is no sign of life at all.
It's hard to be patient but I know sildanani said hers took a month to sprout. I think this is fairly common at these temps. Very interesting to me that the high temps were not lethal to these seeds and instead induced very fast germination.

Those are some healthy looking seedlings, your light fixture seems to be working well for them. Yes. My first batch was all subjected to temperatures probably in the mid to upper 90s (I didn't even bother to use the thermometer - I could just feel that they were way too hot). Maybe not, though, maybe a short burst of really high temps do speed up germination.

If the other batch was planted a week ago, then that's pretty typical to not see any sprouting. If you dug around, you'd probably find most of them have germinated and are spreading roots. I've noticed P. incarnata lays down a relatively large taproot and I that seems to be where most of the initial growth goes. Don't be discouraged. Look for the first sprouts within a week. Mine have been sprouting around 2 weeks after sowing - not sure why sildanani's took so long to sprout. If nothing by then, you might try poking around in the soil to see what's up - or down, rather.

Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: Asiminaholics Anonymous
« on: February 02, 2016, 01:13:36 AM »
Well, stratification of my 35 wild-collected pawpaw seeds finished this weekend. I've soaked them in water at ~75 F for 24 hours and now I've put them in a container on a heat mat set to keep them at 75 F.

My understanding is that the seeds take a long time to germinate. My concern is that such a long period of time could allow mold to set in. Therefore, I've opted to use sphagnum moss as a germinating medium because of its antimicrobial properties. Once the seeds sprout, I will transfer them to tall containers filled with potting soil. Anyone know of any reason using sphagnum to germinate the seeds could be a bad idea?

Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
« on: January 30, 2016, 09:09:33 PM »
So far, I have an 80% germination rate with my first batch of Passiflora incarnata seeds, which I suspect will increase to 90 shortly. I'm pretty pleased with those numbers. I have relocated the first seedling to its own paper cup on the windowsill. With the spotty sunlight and short daylight hours, it is getting very leggy on the windowsill and I'm concerned that the rest of the seedlings will do the same. I'm considering investing in a growing lamp to tide the seedlings over until the weather is consistently warm.

Anyone have any good suggestions for a low-cost growing lamp to get seeds started out?

Temperate Fruit Buy, Sell, & Trade / Re: Want: paw-paw cuttings
« on: January 27, 2016, 10:55:05 PM »
Hey there.

Pawpaw is reported to be very difficult to propagate via cutting, probably because of their deep-rooting nature. Below is an article that demonstrates that cuttings made with seedlings two months old have success rate of 75%. I may try this with the seedlings I'm planting this spring, depending on how successful the germination rate is. I'll post my pawpaw experiment results in the temperate fruit discussion subforum on this site, and you can remind me to send me a cutting if mine do well.

Edit: Nevermind. I see you're wanting scionwood, not whole plants.

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