Durian Grafted onto South American Sapote (Quararibea cordata)?

[murahilin]

In the book Five Decades With Tropical Fruit, Whitman says that he planned to graft durian onto South American sapote, IIRC in order to prevent the durian from being affected by Phytophthora. I can't remember what page I read it on but does anyone know if it was successful? They are both in the same family so it is a remote possibility that the graft would take so it would be interesting to try since Phytophthora is probably the main killer of durian in FL in cold temperatures was not an issue.

[bsbullie]

In the book Five Decades With Tropical Fruit, Whitman says that he planned to graft durian onto South American sapote, IIRC in order to prevent the durian from being affected by Phytophthora. I can't remember what page I read it on but does anyone know if it was successful? They are both in the same family so it is a remote possibility that the graft would take so it would be interesting to try since Phytophthora is probably the main killer of durian in FL in cold temperatures was not an issue.

and we all know you just love durian 

[Mike T]

Durian are highly unlikely to be compatable with matisia as they are getting too distant from each other genetically.It would be like crossing a kangaroo with a sheep to come up with a woolly jumper.Phytophthora resistant rootstock of other Durio sp. is the best bet.Like avos bad drainage is the biggest risk factor.Also like avos only 1 fungicide (tonic really) seems to help ie phosacid or mono di potassium phosphite.

[Jackfruitwhisperer69]

Chanee is commonly used as a rootstock in Thailand because of it's resistance to soil borne pathogens like phytophthora.

@Mike___Karoo x sheep= Wolly jumper 

[Felipe]

I would think they are genetically too distant, but who knows...

[Mike T]

It is only folklore that chanee is Phyt. resistant as all trials show it is not.Heavy mulch beneath,animal manures and sanitation also helps keep it out.D.macrantha would be a great and perhaps dwarfing option but it is better than many zibethinus in its own right.

[fruitlovers]

Durian are highly unlikely to be compatable with matisia as they are getting too distant from each other genetically.It would be like crossing a kangaroo with a sheep to come up with a woolly jumper.Phytophthora resistant rootstock of other Durio sp. is the best bet.Like avos bad drainage is the biggest risk factor.Also like avos only 1 fungicide (tonic really) seems to help ie phosacid or mono di potassium phosphite.

I'm afraid that Mike T is right Sheehan, though with his comparison in animal kingdom he's given to a bit of exaggeration!  Keep in mind that durian is NOT easy to graft even onto itself, so grafting onto another genus would be more than difficult. I think Mike T is correct and another species of durian or even another cultivar of zibethinus would be best bet to give them phytophora resistance. Phytophora is also the main scourge of durians here also. I've had about a dozen nice looking big trees die on me already.  In Thailand the common remedy is to dump tons of fungicides into the soil. Thai farmers are not at all shy about using lots and LOTS of chemicals at very stage of growing and even post harvest. That's something to keep in mind when considering buying those frozen durians from Thailand. A fellow here just told me he got very ill after eating a frozen durian and asked me what it could have possibly had inside the fruit that made him so sick?

[Mike T]

FL I sense this hostility is over the winter quip where I returned serve.Generally the trashiest zibethinus seedlings with big seeds rather than chanee provide the best resistance here for rootstocks.

[fruitlovers]

FL I sense this hostility is over the winter quip where I returned serve.Generally the trashiest zibethinus seedlings with big seeds rather than chanee provide the best resistance here for rootstocks.

Geez, you've made too many quips Mike, i forget which one you could possibly be referring to??HAHA No hostility here though, i enjoy all your quips--like i said just as long as you make amends for all your sins by sending qood quality seeds to the poor old Yanks! 

[Mike T]

Hang in there and when fruiting season comes I'll be rolling in bathtubs full of exotic and exceptional seeds which are looking for good homes.It is a pity your state like this joint can't accept many of the good species.We were derived from criminal stock here so are pretty crafty about bending the guidelines.

[fruitlovers]

Hang in there and when fruiting season comes I'll be rolling in bathtubs full of exotic and exceptional seeds which are looking for good homes.It is a pity your state like this joint can't accept many of the good species.We were derived from criminal stock here so are pretty crafty about bending the guidelines.

OK, just don't drown in those bathtubs full of fruits! Do you know how to swim? We need you alive! BTW Mike, Australia is by far the WORST and most stringent place in the world to send plant material and seeds to. Those guys at your ag department really make me sweat! Makes USA dept. of ag look like a pushover.

[murahilin]

I think both of you are right, Oscar and Mike. If it had worked for Whitman he would have likely written an update about its success. I will still probably try it though one day in the future. All I need to do is find some South American sapote seeds.

I've read online about using species of Trichoderma as a biological control of Phytophthora in durian. I've used Trichoderma in the past on my mom's front lawn to combat harmful fungi that would damage the lawn and it seems to work. I've also read an article about using Trichoderma to control Anthracnose in mangos and I plan to not use copper at all next year and only use Trichoderma.

Here is an article about using it for durians, I cant remember if this was the same one that I read a while back: http://www.issaas.org/journal/v16/01/journal-issaas-v16n1-03-tranha.pdf

[fruitlovers]

I think both of you are right, Oscar and Mike. If it had worked for Whitman he would have likely written an update about its success. I will still probably try it though one day in the future. All I need to do is find some South American sapote seeds.

I've read online about using species of Trichoderma as a biological control of Phytophthora in durian. I've used Trichoderma in the past on my mom's front lawn to combat harmful fungi that would damage the lawn and it seems to work. I've also read an article about using Trichoderma to control Anthracnose in mangos and I plan to not use copper at all next year and only use Trichoderma.

Here is an article about using it for durians, I cant remember if this was the same one that I read a while back: http://www.issaas.org/journal/v16/01/journal-issaas-v16n1-03-tranha.pdf

Sheehan, do you know who sells trichoderma and where it's available? I'd be willing to give it a try as i'm reluctant to spray fungicides.
If you do try the grafting of durian onto chupa chupa i suggest you try an approach grafts. That is the most likely to take. There are usually chupa chupa fruits here around Thanksgiving, so would have a few seeds during that time. These seeds have extremely short viability period, so suggest being extra careful purchasing from far away vendors.

[murahilin]

murahilin, do you know who sells trichoderma and where it's available? I'd be willing to give it a try as i'm reluctant to spray fungicides.
If you do try the grafting of durian onto chupa chupa i suggest you try an approach grafts. That is the most likely to take. There are usually chupa chupa fruits here around Thanksgiving, so would have a few seeds during that time. These seeds have extremely short viability period, so suggest being extra careful purchasing from far away vendors.

Advanced Nutrients sells a product with Trichoderma known as Piranha. I've bought it two times in the past but only the 25g package and I am sure you will need much more than that for your place. I will look around and see if I can find anything that offers larger quantities and maybe even a larger variety of Trichoderma.

I will try and remember to contact you around Thanksgiving to purchase some chupa chupa seeds. I think Vivero Anones in PR also has the seeds for sale around August.

[fruitlovers]

murahilin, do you know who sells trichoderma and where it's available? I'd be willing to give it a try as i'm reluctant to spray fungicides.
If you do try the grafting of durian onto chupa chupa i suggest you try an approach grafts. That is the most likely to take. There are usually chupa chupa fruits here around Thanksgiving, so would have a few seeds during that time. These seeds have extremely short viability period, so suggest being extra careful purchasing from far away vendors.

Advanced Nutrients sells a product with Trichoderma known as Piranha. I've bought it two times in the past but only the 25g package and I am sure you will need much more than that for your place. I will look around and see if I can find anything that offers larger quantities and maybe even a larger variety of Trichoderma.

I will try and remember to contact you around Thanksgiving to purchase some chupa chupa seeds. I think Vivero Anones in PR also has the seeds for sale around August.

Thanks for finding out about the Trichoderma for me. Might save my durian orchard! Sherry at Vivero Anones is also a very good source for seeds. I highly recommend her.

[murahilin]

Thanks for finding out about the Trichoderma for me. Might save my durian orchard! Sherry at Vivero Anones is also a very good source for seeds. I highly recommend her.

How many trees are in your durian orchard? Have any of them been affected by Phytophthora already?

Here is a news article about using Trichoderma on durian trees:
http://www.mindanews.com/top-stories/2011/10/06/davao-tests-bio-agent-on-durian-pest/

Here is another Trichoderma product: http://www.bioworksinc.com/products/rootshield-wp/how-rootshield-wp-works.pdf

As I find more, I will continue to post.

[fruitlovers]

Thanks for finding out about the Trichoderma for me. Might save my durian orchard! Sherry at Vivero Anones is also a very good source for seeds. I highly recommend her.

How many trees are in your durian orchard? Have any of them been affected by Phytophthora already?

Here is a news article about using Trichoderma on durian trees:
http://www.mindanews.com/top-stories/2011/10/06/davao-tests-bio-agent-on-durian-pest/

Here is another Trichoderma product: http://www.bioworksinc.com/products/rootshield-wp/how-rootshield-wp-works.pdf

As I find more, I will continue to post.

I have about 30 durian trees. About 8 died already, another 8 or so are stunted.

[murahilin]

I have about 30 durian trees. About 8 died already, another 8 or so are stunted.

It's awesome that you have 30 trees but it totally sucks that 8 has died. Are you doing multiple rootstocks or anything like that? What have you tried already to attempt to halt the death of the trees? It's a goal of mine to eventually fruit a durian in FL in the ground so any information to possible save the tree in the future will be helpful.

[fruitlovers]

I have about 30 durian trees. About 8 died already, another 8 or so are stunted.

It's awesome that you have 30 trees but it totally sucks that 8 has died. Are you doing multiple rootstocks or anything like that? What have you tried already to attempt to halt the death of the trees? It's a goal of mine to eventually fruit a durian in FL in the ground so any information to possible save the tree in the future will be helpful.

I broke down and bought some fungicide (Aliette)....but i couldn't bring myself to use it. If i had to do it over again i would have planted them on mounds and mixed in a lot of cinder, our equivalent of sand, to improve drainage.

[Mike T]

In India Cullenia excelsa is used for rootstock to promote disease resistance and early fruiting.I believe cross generic grafting also happens in Sri Lanka.You never know.

[fruitlovers]

In India Cullenia excelsa is used for rootstock to promote disease resistance and early fruiting.I believe cross generic grafting also happens in Sri Lanka.You never know.

Cullenia excelsa as rootstock for durian? Cullenia is not even in the same family bombaceae. It's in    malvaceae. FYI durian is still practically non existent and unknown in India, has not entered to any extent into commerce. I'm not sure where that information is coming from about Cullenia as rootstock?

[Mike T]

I think bombacaceae and malvaceae are pretty close.I keep seeing it written.The last time was from a pretty shonky outfit called montoso gardens and I have seen references to durians growing in india a few times also.

[fruitlovers]

I think bombacaceae and malvaceae are pretty close.I keep seeing it written.The last time was from a pretty shonky outfit called montoso gardens and I have seen references to durians growing in india a few times also.

OK point me to just one durian orchard in India? Or let me know how many tons per year the whole of India produces of durians?

[Mike T]

There are a million references and I know you'll say it's a hokey publication but look at Morton FL 'commonly grown along roadsides in India' in origins and distribution.Wikipedia refers to farms in india,the tamil word for it is sappota or yeah looka t suite.101.You should let these mistaken folk and farmers know they are not there.

[Mike T]

It looks like they have a long history in the Nilgiris but has never developed into large scale plantations.

[murahilin]

Cullenia excelsa as rootstock for durian? Cullenia is not even in the same family bombaceae. It's in    malvaceae. FYI durian is still practically non existent and unknown in India, has not entered to any extent into commerce. I'm not sure where that information is coming from about Cullenia as rootstock?

Mike's post made me do some research and apparently it seems possible. Here is what I found: http://www.itfnet.org/contents/fruit/fruitInfo/html/trdLevel1443.html

I also found out that they might have lumped Bombacaceae into Malvaceae now and the Bombacaceae will become a subfamily within Malvaceae. What do you guys think about that? Anyone know what exactly has happened?

[Jsvand5]

I have about 30 durian trees. About 8 died already, another 8 or so are stunted.

[/quote]

Have any of your trees fruited yet?

[fruitlovers]

Have any of your trees fruited yet?

Not yet, but they are certainly large enough to fruit. I think the phytophora has also kept them from fruiting.