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Author Topic: Dekopon Log Zone 8b/9a North Florida  (Read 3228 times)

Tom

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Re: Dekopon Log Zone 8b/9a North Florida
« Reply #25 on: November 25, 2016, 02:57:56 PM »
What have you found about storage after picking ? I think they have a specific number of days and temps to help make the fruit taste better. That is contrary to what other people think about citrus getting better or improving after harvest ! I have felt that my satsumas can get sweeter after being refrigerated a week or two......Tom

LaCasaVerde

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Re: Dekopon Log Zone 8b/9a North Florida
« Reply #26 on: November 25, 2016, 03:28:21 PM »
Tom after looking  finally found this correspondence from the above cited article :

Rick Aleman
MARCH 27, 2016 AT 12:45 AM
Hello, Could you share what the temperature is in the storage shed and for how long the fruit is kept there?
REPLY
dragonlife
MARCH 27, 2016 AT 3:05 AM
About two months under 15 degrees Celsius and in a dark well drafted place!

The grower is selling these as Dekopon in Japan at a brix above 13...

Here is the link
https://shizuokagourmet.com/2012/03/28/dekopon-oranges-producer-nobuhiko-onuma/

Tom-go to the bottom of the page in comments. It appears dragonlife is the author of the article.

 





Millet

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Re: Dekopon Log Zone 8b/9a North Florida
« Reply #27 on: November 25, 2016, 03:40:25 PM »
Mr. Onuma also stated in the same article, that he stores his Dekopons in a cool dark location until the fruit reaches a brix of 13.  If our members would care to do the same with their Dekopons, a good location would probably would be in the basement. .
« Last Edit: November 25, 2016, 07:36:01 PM by Millet »

mrtexas

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Re: Dekopon Log Zone 8b/9a North Florida
« Reply #28 on: November 25, 2016, 07:26:15 PM »
Mr. Onuma also stated in the same article, that he stores his Dekopons in a cool dark location until the fruit reaches a brix of 13.  If our members would care to do the same with their Dekopons, a good location would probably in in the basement. .

Doubtful no, certain, anyone growing dekopons outside would have a basement!

Tom

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Re: Dekopon Log Zone 8b/9a North Florida
« Reply #29 on: November 25, 2016, 08:14:44 PM »
Thanks for the link. Now I remember reading the article! My question or assumption is that mandarins and satsumas [and many other fruit I guess] would also improve if they were kept in the dark at about 58-59 degrees F. for a similar length of time. I'd love to know the brix score before and after storage for a Dekopon fruit and a satsuma and a manderine ! I don't have a cellar either but I can work out that part!

On a side note, I've always heard that warm days and cold nights make citrus sweeter and I believe it but I can't find any scientific proof anywhere and have read the opposite some times. It easy to find people that say sunshine and heat make citrus sweet. I think that is true too. Another way to say I'd love to know the brix on an individual citrus fruit before and after storage.

I have stored citrus fruit in heavy freezer bags for a similar number of days and I think they taste better. I'm guessing the juice has dried up a bit so they are not as juicy but the juice that remains is sweeter. 

Tom

LaCasaVerde

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Re: Dekopon Log Zone 8b/9a North Florida
« Reply #30 on: November 25, 2016, 08:44:12 PM »
Tom believe you are correct. It seems the acid ration decreases giving the fruit a sweeter taste. Perhaps not exactly sweeter but..less tart.
https://pubag.nal.usda.gov/pubag/downloadPDF.xhtml?id=48831&content=PDF

In a nut shell there are several references to this in this study. Within the initial abstract comparing Owari and Murcott:

"Sensory panelists also noted a decline in tartness during storage for both varieties that was associated with
an increase in the ratio of soluble solids concentration (SSC) to titratable acidity (TA)"

The difference here I think is that the Dekopon has a much higher acid content perhaps needing more time.. I did see though in anouther study fully ripened mandarin/satsuma need less time to ..cure than say a early picked one with higher acid concentration.

As to the cold making the fruit sweeter- I roll a lime with the palms of my hand against the counter top before I cut into it as it is supposed to rupture the contents within the fruit making the fruit jucier when cut into. Perhaps the cold is doing something similar by expanding the fruit fluid sacks and rupturing them when the tamp gets closer to 32... dont know just speculation here.

Tom

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Re: Dekopon Log Zone 8b/9a North Florida
« Reply #31 on: November 25, 2016, 11:14:04 PM »
Thanks for the article. That is a lot to digest.

With your limes or lemons try putting one in the microwave. 1 minute for a large Meyer or maybe  little less and maybe 30 seconds for a lime. It will get very hot so allow to cool off. I think you will get a lot more juice ! Tom

Millet

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Re: Dekopon Log Zone 8b/9a North Florida
« Reply #32 on: November 26, 2016, 11:50:32 AM »
I red the following on the internet this morning:  'It is well documented that vegetative and reproductive fruit growth compete for available resources, such as carbohydrates (sugars) and mineral nutrients. Flushes of heavy vegetative resources between vegetative and reproductive growth is one of the reasons that citrus fruit grown in tropical climates tend to have lower TSS (sugars)...

I wonder if this is the reason that Dekopons are pruned in a manner similar to a peach tree, so that the sugars go into the fruit instead of vegetative growth. 

http://www.crec.ifas.ufl.edu/extension/trade_journals/2011/2011_dec_factors_citrus.pdf
« Last Edit: November 26, 2016, 11:52:19 AM by Millet »

Millet

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Re: Dekopon Log Zone 8b/9a North Florida
« Reply #33 on: November 26, 2016, 02:41:45 PM »
Tom you will find support on the question of why citrus taste sweeter with changes in the temperature here: ( From my favorite researcher- LOL) - Millet
http://www.irrec.ifas.ufl.edu/flcitrus/pdfs/short_course_and_workshop/factors_fruit_quality/Koch-Production_and_Environmental_Factors.pdf

JustJoshinya

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Re: Dekopon Log Zone 8b/9a North Florida
« Reply #34 on: November 26, 2016, 03:26:00 PM »
Here is a recent pic of my dekopon seedling living in sunny southern california its gotten plenty of sun its whole life, it needs to be repotted but i dont want to interrupt its last flush of the season. i will wait and repot it next month i believe. i cant add anything to the flowering or fruit setting info just that this tree is doing pretty well on its own roots and growing steady.




LaCasaVerde

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Re: Dekopon Log Zone 8b/9a North Florida
« Reply #35 on: November 26, 2016, 06:11:47 PM »
Tom you will find support on the question of why citrus taste sweeter with changes in the temperature here: ( From my favorite researcher- LOL) - Millet
http://www.irrec.ifas.ufl.edu/flcitrus/pdfs/short_course_and_workshop/factors_fruit_quality/Koch-Production_and_Environmental_Factors.pdf



Excellent read. Im closing up the greenouse at nights now when we get cold here. Initially I had determined to test the cold hardiness of the plant but now see that cold actually keeps the sugars in the leaves instead of sending it to the fruit.Very informative. Thank you. Makes sense now-- the roofs are closed in the later stages of bearing in Japan to increase the sugars sent to the fruit. Good stuff.

LaCasaVerde

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Re: Dekopon Log Zone 8b/9a North Florida
« Reply #36 on: November 26, 2016, 06:33:47 PM »
Here is a recent pic of my dekopon seedling living in sunny southern california its gotten plenty of sun its whole life, it needs to be repotted but i dont want to interrupt its last flush of the season. i will wait and repot it next month i believe. i cant add anything to the flowering or fruit setting info just that this tree is doing pretty well on its own roots and growing steady.




Very nice looking Dekopon! From seed too. Good job!
 From what I can tell it  looks like the pot you have should be big enough for a while longer. My second Dekopon I removed from the same sized pot as yours was about twice that size. I found that the roots had not fully gone down to the bottom of the pot. When I removed the plant half of the medium stayed in the pot. The lower half of the soil was completely ...rootless. Either it was watered too much and stayed too wet at the bottom  or I didnt give it enough time to fully use the medium it was in. When I placed it in the ground it has not grown at all. Its shocked  and still many months latter looking the same as the day I planted it. I about kicked myself.  Look at the drains and see if you can see any roots there . Poke around a lil bit- easy. It wont hurt the plant. If you see nothing Id wait. Every citrus plant Ive moved into larger pots exploded with growth when the root system circled from top to bottom in the medium. 

JustJoshinya this log is for all of us so please post related Dekopon questions here down the road. If will help others, and me too! Im very interested in how long yours takes to reach fruiting age.  Ive read oher posts on the net of people groing them from store bought dekopn but havent seen one until yours'.

Oh almost forgot. How much time has elapsed from when you planted the seed until now?


LaCasaVerde

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Re: Dekopon Log Zone 8b/9a North Florida
« Reply #37 on: November 26, 2016, 06:45:59 PM »
I have never found a single seed in any of the Florida or  ali grown Shiranui and I have  consumed many many pounds of these fruits over the last few years.

I had 12 in one fruit which Im saving to grow or give away. I think the growers in Cali are carefull not to allow cross pollination. Like the Halos and Cuties in the store. I remember reading somewhere that a grove owner  got upset when he  found out there was another citrus variety near the border of the grove..  Im not sure if Dekopon is supposed to be seedless naturally.. how would it reproduce.

JustJoshinya

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Re: Dekopon Log Zone 8b/9a North Florida
« Reply #38 on: November 28, 2016, 03:16:14 AM »
I bought the sumo mandarin fruit from WF in early february i believe i planted the seed and it sprouted on March 1st 2015, so its about a year and eight months old,


« Last Edit: November 28, 2016, 03:18:43 AM by JustJoshinya »

Central Floridave

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Re: Dekopon Log Zone 8b/9a North Florida
« Reply #39 on: November 29, 2016, 12:02:47 PM »
I've got a dekopon in the ground. It has been planted a little over a year.  About 3 feet high.  Not looking too healthy at the moment, but ain't dead.  I'm going to read this thread this weekend when I have more time.  Good idea to document it. 

LaCasaVerde

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Re: Dekopon Log Zone 8b/9a North Florida
« Reply #40 on: December 05, 2016, 07:58:12 PM »
I bought the sumo mandarin fruit from WF in early february i believe i planted the seed and it sprouted on March 1st 2015, so its about a year and eight months old,



Seems that the Dekopon is a slower growing citrus. Mine flushes in time with other citrus but doesnt send out those longer shoots. Tending to want to grow into a bush form. Id say mine is probably 4-5 years old grafted.

Millet

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Re: Dekopon Log Zone 8b/9a North Florida
« Reply #41 on: December 06, 2016, 05:59:33 PM »
Before Mr. Onuma  stores his fruit in the shed, Mr. Onuma and his wife wrap each fruit in a vinyl wrap.  My guess is that the wrapping is an aid to prevent the fruit from losing moisture and drying out, plus it would provide insect protection.  I did not notice any equipment like forklifts, conveyor belts.  They must do everything by hand.

LaCasaVerde

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Re: Dekopon Log Zone 8b/9a North Florida
« Reply #42 on: December 06, 2016, 09:34:02 PM »
I think the same. Seems that and extended store in the refrigerator would dry the fruit out. Im going to place about 5 in freezer bags in the bottom drawer of the fridge to see how they taste after a month or so.

I picked another one last night and the fruit was not as good. About a quarter of the segments on one side seemed dried out. The rest of the Dekopon was juicy with noticeably less acidic bite . I wouldnt say sweeter but less acidic then the one I tried earlier. Thurs and Friday are  predicted to be 35 and 32 degrees lows with Friday holding 32 for 6 hours or so. Im going to close the greenhouse up and heat with a propane heater.



 I tried it out a few nights ago and  raised the temp from 58 to 70 after about an hour or so at full setting (25k btu) in the green house. Im not sure what it will do at 32 outside. Ive ordered a second one in case it cant hold a 10 degree differential from the outside air. 

Millet

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Re: Dekopon Log Zone 8b/9a North Florida
« Reply #43 on: December 06, 2016, 09:46:07 PM »
Is your heater the type that does not put out ethylene gas as it burns?

LaCasaVerde

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Re: Dekopon Log Zone 8b/9a North Florida
« Reply #44 on: December 06, 2016, 09:50:42 PM »
Not sure. It is connected by hose to a propane tank. Sounds like a jet engine when started ...much like a salamander heater  Is there a concern with using if it does?

LaCasaVerde

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Re: Dekopon Log Zone 8b/9a North Florida
« Reply #45 on: December 06, 2016, 10:22:42 PM »
Is your heater the type that does not put out ethylene gas as it burns?

A quick research found that this gas can be controlled by 1 square inch of vent per 2000 btu of heat via propane. In citrus it actually hasten ripening as Ive just read  that ethylene is used to color up citrus. Ill vent the greenhouse with slightly adjar intake and exhaust louvers to make sure though.

 Im also only going to heat for a few hours on low setting just enough to keep the greenhouse at 38 or so instead of the original plan to maintain 45 to 50 degrees with an all night full burn setting... too much experiments to be done still as the greenhouse is on its trial run.

Any info on this ethylene  issue would be appreciated.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2016, 10:30:22 PM by LaCasaVerde »

Millet

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Re: Dekopon Log Zone 8b/9a North Florida
« Reply #47 on: December 07, 2016, 03:48:22 PM »
I had time today to read the link. Not only full of good information on heating but also greenhouse subjects in general.  They recommend :
"As the heater operates, oxygen is used and combustion efficiency decreases unless makeup air is available. A free air inlet of at least 1 sq in/1000 Btu/hr input is needed." I suspect as referenced due to air tight nature of well sealed greenhouses.  Thank you for the information.   

Millet

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Re: Dekopon Log Zone 8b/9a North Florida
« Reply #48 on: December 16, 2016, 09:33:48 PM »
The fruit on My Dekopon tree are now completely orange.   I have 15 quite large fruit hanging on the tree, so I can pick one every so often, and test for sweetness and their over all flavor as they age.  I do want to leave most of them until March 1.   I will also attempt to store a couple in my basement wrapped in cellophane, and hope they don't dry out or get a fungus. In the above link Mr. Onuma's storage area was just a shed - so I have hopes.  If I find seeds in any of the fruit, I will offer them to any forum member who wants one.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2016, 12:47:56 PM by Millet »

LaCasaVerde

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Re: Dekopon Log Zone 8b/9a North Florida
« Reply #49 on: December 17, 2016, 05:44:04 AM »
The fruit on mine are 90 percent orange with just the neck and areas in fruit in the interior that are still showing slight green tint. The fruit is noticable sweeter. im pulling one every  wek or so  now though January. 

 

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