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Author Topic: unusual Tangor/Tangelo descended from Ichang papeda  (Read 336 times)

SoCal2warm

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unusual Tangor/Tangelo descended from Ichang papeda
« on: June 15, 2017, 08:25:31 PM »
I found a source selling an unusual citrus variety. They say it was from a seed from a fruit they got at a South Carolina citrus expo, and they were told the fruit was from a cross between Minneola tangelo (itself a Duncan grapefruit x mandarin hybrid) and Ichang papeda, which was then crossed again with a Tangor (a cross between tangerine and sweet orange).

They have no idea how cold-hardy this thing is, but think it should be hardy to zone 8 (presumably, based only on the fact it is an Ichang papeda hybrid).

I don't know if it was carefully bred from each cross (with only the best offspring selected from several seedlings) or whether they were just simple crosses, in which case one has no idea if the final offspring retained any of the original cold-hardy papeda genes. And then that the final plant was grown from a seed from this fruit? Really sounds like it could be luck of the draw with the genes, even if one could be certain it actually did come from Ichang papeda, two (or three) generations back.

Does anyone know anything about this variety or does it seem familiar to anything else you have ever read about?

Do you think it's worthwhile to buy it?
(Sorry, I'm going to have to keep the source secret for now because I want it to sell out to someone else)


Ilya11

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Re: unusual Tangor/Tangelo descended from Ichang papeda
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2017, 02:59:18 AM »
Most probably it is MIC:
Minneola(aka Honeybell) x C. Ichangensis x CiTemple Edible

http://hardycitrus.blogspot.fr/2013/07/mic.html
Best regards,
                       Ilya

SoCal2warm

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Re: unusual Tangor/Tangelo descended from Ichang papeda
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2017, 12:10:32 PM »
Thanks.

That site in your link says it's a cross between trifoliate x Temple tangerine, then crossed with Ichang papeda, then that was finally crossed with a Minneola tangelo.

They are most likely the same thing then, probably the source got confused about the order of its pedigree, and the fact there was trifoliate in it. They actually mentioned "Temple Orange" specifically (also saying it is a Tangor) so I'm pretty sure it must be the same thing.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2017, 12:22:45 PM by SoCal2warm »

eyeckr

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Re: unusual Tangor/Tangelo descended from Ichang papeda
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2017, 10:27:26 PM »
If you what you are talking about is MIC I can elaborate on this a little. I did have make a very small MIC graft out in my yard on a multi grafted tree but it did not grow out much because it was shaded out by other grafts. It survived a couple years like that before it eventually died off. I think it died back mostly from not enough sun exposure. In retrospect I probably could've given it a little more attention and cut back the branches shading it out. I'm regrafted it out again and have it in a better spot to give a better trial.

Of all of my favorite trees I had growing in my yard Nuclem was up in my top three. I was sad to loose my mature 12 ft tree after a very hard winter one year. Luckily MIC is actually very similar to Nuclem but more cold tolerant and a heavy producer as well. It may need thinning so not to make it vulnerable to cold damage. A good friend of mine and experienced hardy citrus grower considers this a great choice for citrus zone pushers. He has had his tree growing for a good number of years (zone 7b) and has survived where as keraji, ichang, kumquat, citsuma, tiawanica, rusk and a couple changshas have not survived the cold.

SoCal2warm

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Re: unusual Tangor/Tangelo descended from Ichang papeda
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2017, 09:48:46 AM »
Here's a very interesting old post I found archived in gardenweb.com

Interesting cold hardy monofoliate citrus/poncirus hybrid.
Don_OKC
March 10, 2006

"Two springs ago I pollenated my 'Temple' orange with poncirus 'Flying Dragon' pollen of which 15 fruits were produced. These 15 fruits all made seeds sprouting hybrid seedlings which amounted to around 250.

My report today is about one of two unusual monofoliate yet truely hybrid seedlings. Both monofoliate hybrid seedlings came from the same fruit which is interesting in itself.

Both monofoliate seedlings were grown to 5 gallon size in the greenhouse and planted last summer, in pot, in the open field, exposed to all winter weather. Early December gave these two plants a early and harsh cold hardiness test with two nights of lower single digits and several daytime highs of upper teens to lower 20's. New Year's day I removed the monofoliate hybrids from their outdoor setting and place inside the warm greenhouse for a early spring.

One monofoliate seedling froze to near ground level but the other survived in fair shape. The monofoliate survivor did not go untouched but in my opinion showed good potential hardiness with only 30% younger stem damage in the upper canopy. What is so great about it's winter hardiness is the lower trunk did not have any air/soil transition zone damage. I have found those lower trunk freeze cracks the most deadly to hybrid citrus. December's frigid cold is the worst for those air/soil transition zone freeze cracks because the still warm soil seem's to keep sap flowing near ground level.

This now cold proven and worthy of further development hybrid has very sweet smelling leaves that are often monofoliate but sometimes will produce a trifoliate. Often a monofoliate leaf will have almost no petiole but the few trifoliate leaves will always have a regular petiole. The monofoliate leaves seem to have a very rough texture and sawtooth margin where the few trifoliate leaves will be smoother in texture and margin. The monofoliate hybrid's growth form is more branched than typical and rate of growth slightly slower than typical, yet robust. I hope the early branching growth form will mature into a fruiting stage faster than normal so I can get that all important taste test. I'll be budding some juvenile wood from 'monofoliate' within the upper canopy of a fruiting citrumelo, trying to forced mono into maturing.

That's all for now and here are some pics of the new growth. A very interesting atypical hybrid since it has cold hardiness."

http://forums.gardenweb.com/discussions/1815593/interesting-cold-hardy-monofoliate-citrus-poncirus-hybrid

(unfortunately the pictures are now longer available since it was an old archived post)

Apparently MIC first originated from a cross between Temple Orange and trifoliate, before subsequent further crosses were made, and it appears Don (from the above post) was successful in this same type of cross too. Just an interesting coincidence.

Well, it's probably not really all a coincidence. Temple Orange happens to be a variety that does not come true from seed, that is it is not polyembryonic, all seeds that form inside are zygotic, the result of pollination. The majority of common citrus varieties, on the other hand, are polyembryonic, the great majority of the seeds that form are clones of the parent, which can make breeding much more challenging. So it's no surprise Temple was selected as the female parent for breeding.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2017, 09:57:20 AM by SoCal2warm »

 

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