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Author Topic: Growing lemons from seed?  (Read 528 times)

Citradia

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Growing lemons from seed?
« on: July 09, 2017, 07:53:30 AM »
Ok. I just read a post on FB about growing your own indoor potted lemon tree from seed to get fruit, etc. photo shows a 12 inch high lemon tree loaded with lemons in a two gallon pot on a window sill. A small productive lemon tree is grafted, right? Lemon trees still have a significant node count requirement like other citrus right? I've not tried to grow sweet lemons from seed, just Ichang lemon, but still doubt that I could plant a grocery store lemon seed and get fruit off a foot-tall tree. Enlighten me please.

bsbullie

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Re: Growing lemons from seed?
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2017, 09:09:21 AM »
So you believe everything you read on the internet,  especially FB?  Photoshop can be a wonderful thing...
- Rob

Millet

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Re: Growing lemons from seed?
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2017, 10:29:37 AM »
I have grown several lemons from seed.  The few that I grew never reached fruiting stage.  When I got rid of them they were approximately 3 feet high.  A seedling lemon has an almost straight up growth pattern.  What you read on FB was a fairy tale.

Citradia

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Re: Growing lemons from seed?
« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2017, 03:06:05 PM »
That's what I thought, but hey, I've never tried lemon seeds myself.

SoCal2warm

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Re: Growing lemons from seed?
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2017, 04:27:37 PM »
The reason that seed-grown trees "do not seem to produce any fruit" is simply because they are not grafted. Grafting a fruit tree on different rootstock has a degree of dwarfing effect which induces the tree to become more precocious and start producing fruit earlier in its lifetime. Normally fruit trees in the wild do not produce fruit in the juvenile stage.

So a bunch of people throw out their perfectly good trees grown from seed because they're not patient enough.

Millet

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Re: Growing lemons from seed?
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2017, 05:22:11 PM »
A grafted cutting is already mature wood capable of fruiting, all it needs is to grow a little height. 

Lory

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Re: Growing lemons from seed?
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2017, 10:14:06 PM »
You can grow your lemons from seeds but please be ready to wait several years until the tree will overcome its juvenile stage and bear fruits.
The fruits you will get can be very different from the one you got your seeds from. In a better or worse way, only nature knows :-)
Trees gwown from seeds tend to be upright and sometimes  very thorny.
Some wonderful varieties of italian SORRENTO lemons (you can google it)  came from seeds then they are now propagated vegetatively to preserve their characteristics.
My advace is to buy a grafted tree or to graft your own seedlings using budwood of a HEALTHY and top quality variety.
Your trees wont' be so huge.
They will not be so thorny
They will bear fruits much much earlier.
If you're ready to wait for years (sometimes 10+) you can try your luck with a simple seedling,  it's your choice :-)

Lorenzo

mrtexas

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Re: Growing lemons from seed?
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2017, 01:57:53 PM »
You can grow your lemons from seeds but please be ready to wait several years until the tree will overcome its juvenile stage and bear fruits.
The fruits you will get can be very different from the one you got your seeds from. In a better or worse way, only nature knows :-)
Trees gwown from seeds tend to be upright and sometimes  very thorny.
Some wonderful varieties of italian SORRENTO lemons (you can google it)  came from seeds then they are now propagated vegetatively to preserve their characteristics.
My advace is to buy a grafted tree or to graft your own seedlings using budwood of a HEALTHY and top quality variety.
Your trees wont' be so huge.
They will not be so thorny
They will bear fruits much much earlier.
If you're ready to wait for years (sometimes 10+) you can try your luck with a simple seedling,  it's your choice :-)


"The fruits you will get can be very different from the one you got your seeds from"
wrong wrong wrong

http://mrtexascitrus.weebly.com/citrusseedlings.html

Don't let anyone tell you citrus don't come true from seed, they are wrong. 99% of citrus come true from seed and it is nearly impossible to hybridize them.
Google nucellar polyembryony.   ​ A few that don't include lee mandarin, clementine, pummelo, meyer lemon, and temple. The few that don't are frequently used to make crosses. I have 3 USDA recently released crosses of lee, lee x nova, lee x orlando, and lee x robinson.

http://citruspages.free.fr/classification.html#embryony

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nucellar_embryony

I have grown some from seed, sunquat, sour orange, and others. The sunquat flowered in the 2nd year. A friend waited 17 years for a cocktail seedling to bloom. It varies but usually will flower by 5 years. I am currently growing out from seed sugar belle as the budwood is not available in Texas for grafting. I put the seedling on a swingle rootstock as seedlings sometimes don't have the best root system. It should take about 5 years to flower. My sugar belle seedling currently has 2-3 inch thorns. When the tree is mature the thorns usually go away at the top of the tree. I was growing a shiranui seedling but not now that the budwood should be available in Texas in a year or two. Others in Texas are growing out sumo or shiranui. It is not worth it IMHO to grow out a seedling when budwood is available for grafting. However a seedling can be a cheap tree. Satsuma seedlings likely will flower in 5 years, not have any thorns, and do good on their own roots.  Most meyer lemons are grown on their own roots from cuttings. I have seen a seedling kumquat with 3 inch thorns near the ground and no thorns as the top. Seedlings tend to have upright growth habit as well

Note the time to flower depends on whether it is in the ground or pot. In a pot it might never get big enough to flower. My seedlings are in the ground.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2017, 11:29:02 PM by mrtexas »

Lory

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Re: Growing lemons from seed?
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2017, 10:12:58 PM »
Please read carefully.

I said they CAN be very different. (sorry for my english maybe the right verb would be MAY  be or MIGHT be.

I never said they  WILL be different.

The difference seems sublte but is substantial

« Last Edit: July 10, 2017, 10:24:15 PM by Lory »
Lorenzo

Ilya11

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Re: Growing lemons from seed?
« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2017, 10:24:55 AM »
Very few citrus are obligatory ( 100% zygotic) not true from seeds.
 For the rest, the proportion of nucellular (  true from seeds) and zygotic seedlings largely depends on cultivation environment , presence of other pollinators, temperatures etc.
Mr texas, from what I read elsewhere and my own experience Kishu is obligatory not true from seeds.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2017, 01:42:06 PM by Ilya11 »
Best regards,
                       Ilya

Sylvain

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Re: Growing lemons from seed?
« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2017, 11:25:16 AM »
nucellular ( true from seeds)  ;)

mrtexas

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Re: Growing lemons from seed?
« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2017, 12:10:07 PM »
Please read carefully.

I said they CAN be very different. (sorry for my english maybe the right verb would be MAY  be or MIGHT be.

I never said they  WILL be different.

The difference seems sublte but is substantial

How many citrus trees have you grown out from seed in the ground? All the several ones I have grown
out were true to seed.

Ilya11

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Re: Growing lemons from seed?
« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2017, 01:48:39 PM »
nucellular ( true from seeds)  ;)
Sorry for the slip.
Best regards,
                       Ilya

Lory

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Re: Growing lemons from seed?
« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2017, 07:55:00 AM »
Please read carefully.

I said they CAN be very different. (sorry for my english maybe the right verb would be MAY  be or MIGHT be.

I never said they  WILL be different.

The difference seems sublte but is substantial

How many citrus trees have you grown out from seed in the ground? All the several ones I have grown
out were true to seed.


As for now i've just a pomelo and 2 lemon trees gwown from seed. They are all about 3 years old and not bearing fruit yet.
They are nice trees, quite upright growing habit and very thorny (the pomelo new growth is actually thornless with my great pleasure.









But even in the case they all will bear fruits true to their mother i will not make the easy deduction that all citruses (namely lemons) MUST come true from seed.
Science doesn't mean  a single person making his own home-made experiment then deducing an universal law from his personal observation....
That said i'm perfectly aware of the advantages of growing a citrus from seeds, they are sturdy guys with powerful root systems and virus-free.
Then i know the excitement to wait impatiently see your own tree finally bearing fuits .  :)
But this should not illude anybody that "in a few years you will get those wonderful fruits from your seedling".
This is just  a possibility not an assurance.
I'd be glad to know Millet's opinion about this topic



Lorenzo

Susanne42

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Re: Growing lemons from seed?
« Reply #14 on: July 12, 2017, 09:03:37 AM »
Exceptions confirm the rule ;)

Lory

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Re: Growing lemons from seed?
« Reply #15 on: July 12, 2017, 09:19:56 AM »
Exactly!  :)
Lorenzo

Millet

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Re: Growing lemons from seed?
« Reply #16 on: July 12, 2017, 09:59:36 AM »
Lemons are one of the citrus varieties that come true from seed.

Tom

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Re: Growing lemons from seed?
« Reply #17 on: July 12, 2017, 12:52:06 PM »
Some what on topic, Meyer Lemon is the most grown citrus and the majority of them are not grafted. Granted most are grown from cuttings to save time and Meyer is fairly easy to propagate with cuttings but you could grow them from seed too as well as other methods like air layering. Seed would take a long time and if in a cold setting like zone 8 or colder, length of time for cold protection each year could be laborious. I've had better luck with potted citrus ,including Meyer lemon, staying outside as much as possible. Mine usually don't do well when subjected to long periods of time indoors. My biggest inground Meyer has had more than 300 enormous fruit each year for the last three years. I'm afraid it will have an off year this year but it's so large I might be surprised. It's difficult to count when the fruit are small and the same color as the leaves to say nothing of the wicked thorns that tear me up ! Best wishes to all. Tom

mrtexas

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Re: Growing lemons from seed?
« Reply #18 on: July 12, 2017, 03:31:48 PM »
Some what on topic, Meyer Lemon is the most grown citrus and the majority of them are not grafted. Granted most are grown from cuttings to save time and Meyer is fairly easy to propagate with cuttings but you could grow them from seed too as well as other methods like air layering. Seed would take a long time and if in a cold setting like zone 8 or colder, length of time for cold protection each year could be laborious. I've had better luck with potted citrus ,including Meyer lemon, staying outside as much as possible. Mine usually don't do well when subjected to long periods of time indoors. My biggest inground Meyer has had more than 300 enormous fruit each year for the last three years. I'm afraid it will have an off year this year but it's so large I might be surprised. It's difficult to count when the fruit are small and the same color as the leaves to say nothing of the wicked thorns that tear me up ! Best wishes to all. Tom

Meyer lemon is not true from seed. I've tasted seedling fruit that tastes like a white grapefruit.

Lory

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Re: Growing lemons from seed?
« Reply #19 on: July 12, 2017, 09:57:12 PM »
Some what on topic, Meyer Lemon is the most grown citrus and the majority of them are not grafted. Granted most are grown from cuttings to save time and Meyer is fairly easy to propagate with cuttings but you could grow them from seed too as well as other methods like air layering. Seed would take a long time and if in a cold setting like zone 8 or colder, length of time for cold protection each year could be laborious. I've had better luck with potted citrus ,including Meyer lemon, staying outside as much as possible. Mine usually don't do well when subjected to long periods of time indoors. My biggest inground Meyer has had more than 300 enormous fruit each year for the last three years. I'm afraid it will have an off year this year but it's so large I might be surprised. It's difficult to count when the fruit are small and the same color as the leaves to say nothing of the wicked thorns that tear me up ! Best wishes to all. Tom


300 hundreds + of fruits?
Wow congratulations tom i wish mine will be the same one day  :)
Lorenzo

Lory

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Re: Growing lemons from seed?
« Reply #20 on: July 12, 2017, 09:59:13 PM »
Some what on topic, Meyer Lemon is the most grown citrus and the majority of them are not grafted. Granted most are grown from cuttings to save time and Meyer is fairly easy to propagate with cuttings but you could grow them from seed too as well as other methods like air layering. Seed would take a long time and if in a cold setting like zone 8 or colder, length of time for cold protection each year could be laborious. I've had better luck with potted citrus ,including Meyer lemon, staying outside as much as possible. Mine usually don't do well when subjected to long periods of time indoors. My biggest inground Meyer has had more than 300 enormous fruit each year for the last three years. I'm afraid it will have an off year this year but it's so large I might be surprised. It's difficult to count when the fruit are small and the same color as the leaves to say nothing of the wicked thorns that tear me up ! Best wishes to all. Tom

!

Meyer lemon is not true from seed. I've tasted seedling fruit that tastes like a white grapefruit.


Yes i've heard about that.
Anyway a big good luck for your seedlings, ( and for mine as well)  you know with seed reproduction  sometimes you can have wonderful surprises after a long waiting  :)
Lorenzo

 

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