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Author Topic: Dr. Richard Campbell's orchard and some of his favorite mangos  (Read 2037 times)

Mark in Texas

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Re: Dr. Richard Campbell's orchard and some of his favorite mangos
« Reply #25 on: July 15, 2017, 12:07:56 PM »
Glad I read this thread as I got a stick of Diamond recently.

Anyone have any info on others I got - Zinc and Cushman?   Worth grafting?  Already grafted Zill varieties but the 3 other varieties are still in the fridge.

Yeah, best to not waste your space with the Diamond.

Cushman is an excellent tasting mango.  Tree is somewhat scraggily with some possible scab and other health issues when grown in our area.

ZINC is a Zill variety,  stands for Zill Indo Chinese.  It originated as a chance seedling.  Excellent top notch variety.  Tree is fairly vigorous and spreading and the fruit here has some ripening and splitting issues.  It has two ripening times with the late "crop" usually being better.  Eaten not fully ripe and it is tart and chalky but eaten properly ripened and its a top notch fruit, like its offspring...it is the parent of Sweet Tart, Kathy and Venus.

Excellent info, thanks a bunch!

clannewton

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Re: Dr. Richard Campbell's orchard and some of his favorite mangos
« Reply #26 on: July 15, 2017, 12:14:00 PM »
very interesting point about the desired lack of nitrogen and also the desired lighter green leaves and it's positive effects on the brix index.

Mark in Texas

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Re: Dr. Richard Campbell's orchard and some of his favorite mangos
« Reply #27 on: July 15, 2017, 12:18:40 PM »
very interesting point about the desired lack of nitrogen and also the desired lighter green leaves and it's positive effects on the brix index.

I noticed that.  Here's my take on NPK ratios or at least what I practice.  Too many pros have stated that mangos don't like much if any N.  I feel that applies to 2 yr. or older fruiting trees, an age at which Campbell tries to fruit his new mango transplants.   So, I hit them with N when juveniles to build a canopy but am adjusting the NPK to a low N,  high P food, or giving them potassium sulfate exclusively.

Fascinating too that he and his son are digging out a hole in coral/limestone and planting in the hole chiseled out.

Future

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Re: Dr. Richard Campbell's orchard and some of his favorite mangos
« Reply #28 on: July 15, 2017, 12:32:44 PM »
Glad I read this thread as I got a stick of Diamond recently.

Anyone have any info on others I got - Zinc and Cushman?   Worth grafting?  Already grafted Zill varieties but the 3 other varieties are still in the fridge.

Yeah, best to not waste your space with the Diamond.

Cushman is an excellent tasting mango.  Tree is somewhat scraggily with some possible scab and other health issues when grown in our area.

ZINC is a Zill variety,  stands for Zill Indo Chinese.  It originated as a chance seedling.  Excellent top notch variety.  Tree is fairly vigorous and spreading and the fruit here has some ripening and splitting issues.  It has two ripening times with the late "crop" usually being better.  Eaten not fully ripe and it is tart and chalky but eaten properly ripened and its a top notch fruit, like its offspring...it is the parent of Sweet Tart, Kathy and Venus.

Is Kathy monoembryonic?

I am one who does enjoy the chalky taste...

clannewton

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Re: Dr. Richard Campbell's orchard and some of his favorite mangos
« Reply #29 on: July 15, 2017, 12:38:57 PM »
very interesting point about the desired lack of nitrogen and also the desired lighter green leaves and it's positive effects on the brix index.

I noticed that.  Here's my take on NPK ratios or at least what I practice.  Too many pros have stated that mangos don't like much if any N.  I feel that applies to 2 yr. or older fruiting trees, an age at which Campbell tries to fruit his new mango transplants.   So, I hit them with N when juveniles to build a canopy but am adjusting the NPK to a low N,  high P food, or giving them potassium sulfate exclusively.

Fascinating too that he and his son are digging out a hole in coral/limestone and planting in the hole chiseled out.

sound like a logical strategy.  Other than the weather, does not seem like the most ideal location to put in tree orchard.  Chiseling the holes out with hand tools to boot. Wondering when they will get rid of the jeep in the background as a way of demonstrating the anti-machine/technology statement. lol

Future

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Re: Dr. Richard Campbell's orchard and some of his favorite mangos
« Reply #30 on: July 15, 2017, 12:40:05 PM »
I appreciate the video links,  I find it very interesting what Campbell is attempting to do.   I do see a few discrepancies in his comments, maybe I heard him wrong,  he mentions that trees are planted at about 10 ft apart. and in one part of the video says he will increase the amount of trees per half acre,  later he says he might have to pull some out.   

It will be interesting to see if he is able to keep plants dwarfed solely by pushing production.   having so many trees so close together,  with little circulation seems like an invitation for fungal problems down the line.   and although I always support the idea of keeping the garden industrial chemical free, and love the idea of trying to be sustainable as possible,   its seems like this will be very labor intensive,  pruning 250 trees, and doing almost all other labor manually.   I do respect his experience, and learned a few things in these videos, also gave me some ideas of my own.

I am not too clear on the so called proprietary varieties he intends to patent,  are these  non-mentioned varieties or the ones he mentioned in the video?  could they be the new hybrids mentioned by Noris in another thread?

Re: proprietary varieties
I recall hearing some vague comments about the dispute with Fairchild and he hints in the first video without coming out and saying it "trees had to be moved in a short period"..."root pruned"...indicating these were grown on another property that wasn't his yet he has claimed ownership of the genetics. 

I do wonder about plant patenting economics...is it worth it?

On another note, I have tasted Orange Sherbert seedling and yes, it is the real deal.  Holding on to control of poly seeded fruit is like holding back the tide by hand...

DurianLover

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Re: Dr. Richard Campbell's orchard and some of his favorite mangos
« Reply #31 on: July 15, 2017, 03:08:06 PM »
Future, not even slightest difference with OS you get at Zill's stand?? It's my favorite all time mango.

zands

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Re: Dr. Richard Campbell's orchard and some of his favorite mangos
« Reply #32 on: July 15, 2017, 04:27:55 PM »
very interesting point about the desired lack of nitrogen and also the desired lighter green leaves and it's positive effects on the brix index.


I noticed that.  Here's my take on NPK ratios or at least what I practice.  Too many pros have stated that mangos don't like much if any N.  I feel that applies to 2 yr. or older fruiting trees, an age at which Campbell tries to fruit his new mango transplants.   So, I hit them with N when juveniles to build a canopy but am adjusting the NPK to a low N,  high P food, or giving them potassium sulfate exclusively.


When I first started mangoes in 2008 I emailed Richard Campbell on fertilizer and his brief answer was to use 0-0-50 sulfate. Worthless advice for young trees.  I could not find this 0 0 50 potassium sulfate so I did not fertilize at all for a few years. Big mistake. Then I read the back of a Zill mango tree tag and started fertilizing young trees on this basis.
here is photo of one I posted ages ago----  (control and + to magnify)  http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6015/5905298900_05f84f80ee_b.jpg

Once I followed Zill fertilization instructions my young trees took off

Mark your take is 100% correct in my book. Young mango trees need N.    Even cheapo 10-10-10 will work if you apply a little at a time on top of mulch which slows down it's quick acting nitrogen. Better fertilizers are easy to find with slow release poly coated nitrogen which  dissolves slowly, so very hard to burn your trees unless in pots. There are better fertilizers available in South Florida (such as at Excalibur) but for easy to find slow release N you can find avocado/citrus fertilizers at HD and Lowes. Their number vary but are about 6-4-6

Older trees need less or zero N. More N means more pruning. You are right about getting a good potassium sulfate. Not the fast dissolve stuff (powders) that goes into irrigation systems. Use the granular 0 0 50 sulfate that puts out the potassium sulfate slowly.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2017, 07:19:45 AM by zands »

FruitFreak

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Re: Dr. Richard Campbell's orchard and some of his favorite mangos
« Reply #33 on: July 15, 2017, 05:30:00 PM »
"Diamond" is hot garbage. It was originally HW-14, then Richard named it "Fairchild Diamond". The name was then changed to Diamond. It's one of the worst mangos I've ever eaten and tastes like a vegetable.

Cecilove is 34-24, a Carrie seedling from the Zill project.

Richard used Piva quite a bit at Fairchild Farm and it did dwarf some trees.

Maybe instead of Diamond, they should call it Charcoal, lol. I've heard some people also say that Maha, Malika, Angie and a few others I can't remember having a vegetable taste.

Simon

Mallika can taste like a carrot sometimes when it doesn't ripen right. Baptiste also tastes like a carrot.

Diamond is worse though. Sometimes southeast Asian mangos (ala NDM) can get that vegetable component to their flavor but this thing takes it to another level. It sucks.

Disappointing news about the Diamond because the growth habit appears to be very compact with strong branching.  I just bought a 7gal based on the hardy and symmetrical look of the tree.


- Marley

Future

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Re: Dr. Richard Campbell's orchard and some of his favorite mangos
« Reply #34 on: July 15, 2017, 09:14:05 PM »
Future, not even slightest difference with OS you get at Zill's stand?? It's my favorite all time mango.

Trust me.  This clone could shine on Star Wars.  OS is top five in my list.  Tough to beat.

TnTrobbie

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Re: Dr. Richard Campbell's orchard and some of his favorite mangos
« Reply #35 on: July 15, 2017, 09:39:28 PM »

Is Kathy monoembryonic?

I am one who does enjoy the chalky taste...
[/quote]

I have a kathy seedling and it was mono. I too love the chaulky texture of some mangoe cvs- especially if it's sweet/very sweet.. Starch mango from tnt has it. When I first tasted ZINC in 2015 it had it. Dot can get it some times. I think Valcarrie and Julieette too. Looking forward to enjoying Venus as well if it has it.
The Earth laughs in flowers. And bear gifts through fruits.

Future

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Re: Dr. Richard Campbell's orchard and some of his favorite mangos
« Reply #36 on: July 15, 2017, 09:41:18 PM »
Watching the second video, newbies might think the good doc creating LZ, OS....he mentions "collected" alongside "proprietary"...most here would know so I'm just saying.  This is a closest I've seen to the good Doc giving props to the illustrious Zill work...while not mentioning the name Zill...

Anyone know about the unnamed 1898 collection from Saigon by David Fairchild?

fruitlovers

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Re: Dr. Richard Campbell's orchard and some of his favorite mangos
« Reply #37 on: July 16, 2017, 02:47:03 AM »
Thought he stopped working for Fairchild gardens and moved to Costa Rica to work for ag company there?
Oscar

zands

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Re: Dr. Richard Campbell's orchard and some of his favorite mangos
« Reply #38 on: July 16, 2017, 07:16:53 AM »

Disappointing news about the Diamond because the growth habit appears to be very compact with strong branching.  I just bought a 7gal based on the hardy and symmetrical look of the tree.



I have often bought mango trees based on looks. Went into the nursery wanting to buy one variety but they did not have good specimens. So I bought a strong looking mango tree that was not on my list.  If you have the space plant it anyway. Worse comes to worse you can graft onto it. Your soil might produce good diamond mangoes or they might be fruits that others like. Maybe micro-nutrient sprays and optimum fertilization can make it taste better.
My 2 worth.

Mark in Texas

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Re: Dr. Richard Campbell's orchard and some of his favorite mangos
« Reply #39 on: July 16, 2017, 09:11:45 AM »
Chiseling the holes out with hand tools to boot. Wondering when they will get rid of the jeep in the background as a way of demonstrating the anti-machine/technology statement. lol

And no chain saws!   ;D

Mark in Texas

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Re: Dr. Richard Campbell's orchard and some of his favorite mangos
« Reply #40 on: July 16, 2017, 09:16:44 AM »

Mark your take is 100% correct in my book. Young mango trees need N.    Even cheapo 10-10-10 will work if you apply a little at a time on top of mulch which slows down it's quick acting nitrogen. Better fertilizers are easy to find with slow release poly coated nitrogen which  dissolves slowly, so very hard to burn your trees unless in pots. There are better fertilizers available in South Florida (such as at Excalibur) but for easy to find slow release N you can find avocado/citrus fertilizers at HD and Lowes. Their number vary but are about 6-4-6

Older trees need less or zero N. More N means more pruning. You are right about getting a good potassium sulfate. Not the fast dissolve stuff (powders) that goes into irrigation systems. Use the granular 0 0 50 sulfate that puts out the potassium sulfate slowly.

Kathy, a TX-MX border tropical nursery (who just sponsored a mango festival) told me years ago to back off the N.  Said mangos store nitrogen. 

Am still using Polyon 18-4-9 slow release 12 mo. on all materials.  Will continue too until I run out and then move on to a more balance Osmocote Outdoor/Inndoor mix that I bought a while back.
 

Mark in Texas

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Re: Dr. Richard Campbell's orchard and some of his favorite mangos
« Reply #41 on: July 16, 2017, 09:20:22 AM »
Disappointing news about the Diamond because the growth habit appears to be very compact with strong branching.  I just bought a 7gal based on the hardy and symmetrical look of the tree.



Fine looking tree, thanks for sharing.

Some of the recent grafts I did.  9 so far and will try to find a branch for the Zinc and Cushman.



ScottR

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Re: Dr. Richard Campbell's orchard and some of his favorite mangos
« Reply #42 on: July 16, 2017, 10:31:06 AM »
Two excellent video's thanks for posting Simon.

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Re: Dr. Richard Campbell's orchard and some of his favorite mangos
« Reply #43 on: July 17, 2017, 12:02:44 AM »
Dr Richard Campbell is a bit of an eccentric.

That seems insane that someone with his level of expertise would consider one of the worst-tasting mangos one of his favorites!  Just goes to show how everone's taste/opinion is different.  Maybe he's eaten so many mangos that only he can appreciate the unique qualities of a garbage mango--"one of his children."  We know his love of mangos is boundless.  Beautiful tropical paradise where he lives.
Jeff  :-)

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Re: Dr. Richard Campbell's orchard and some of his favorite mangos
« Reply #44 on: July 17, 2017, 12:03:42 AM »
Only one-dimensional if eaten fully ripe.

I like NDM although it's not my favorite and the flavor can be one dimensional. In good years, it does have a slight floral note and it does taste a bit like nectar to me. I used to suck honeysuckle.

Simon
Jeff  :-)

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Re: Dr. Richard Campbell's orchard and some of his favorite mangos
« Reply #45 on: July 17, 2017, 12:12:30 AM »
They make battery powered chain saws that compete with the best gas saws in terms of performance. I have a husqy T536Li X that is a game changer. I love that thing and would never consider going back to hand saw. The no powertool mantra is a little extreme.

Chiseling the holes out with hand tools to boot. Wondering when they will get rid of the jeep in the background as a way of demonstrating the anti-machine/technology statement. lol

And no chain saws!   ;D
Jeff  :-)

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Re: Dr. Richard Campbell's orchard and some of his favorite mangos
« Reply #46 on: July 17, 2017, 12:23:44 AM »
I'm still scratching my head on that one. The mango trees on my other lot receive zero nitrogen (and are on N-deficient soil), yet they have nice green leaves -- because keep the pH slightly acid and provide them with micro nutrients. Per my experience, mango trees will generally have green leaves if they are receiving proper P-K-Ca and micro nutrients. They don't need supplemental nitrogen, but they do want other nutrients, esp zinc, iron, etc.

I can't argue with his results, but not every mango tree responds well to a set-it-and-forget-it approach. I've seen many trees decline and die in that environment. Indeed, some will survive but not all.

I like Dr Richard Campbell and always enjoy watching his videos and listening to his lectures, but I consider him to be somewhat of an eccentric and take his info with a grain of salt.

very interesting point about the desired lack of nitrogen and also the desired lighter green leaves and it's positive effects on the brix index.
Jeff  :-)

Mark in Texas

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Re: Dr. Richard Campbell's orchard and some of his favorite mangos
« Reply #47 on: July 17, 2017, 09:36:12 AM »
They make battery powered chain saws that compete with the best gas saws in terms of performance. I have a husqy T536Li X that is a game changer. I love that thing and would never consider going back to hand saw. The no powertool mantra is a little extreme.

Ditto, electric pole saw by Green Works, rechargeable battery. Keeps me off ladders and does a great job even on tough oaks.   Still use my Husquavarna gas chain saw. 

Mark in Texas

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Re: Dr. Richard Campbell's orchard and some of his favorite mangos
« Reply #48 on: July 17, 2017, 09:41:04 AM »
I'm still scratching my head on that one. The mango trees on my other lot receive zero nitrogen (and are on N-deficient soil), yet they have nice green leaves -- because keep the pH slightly acid and provide them with micro nutrients. Per my experience, mango trees will generally have green leaves if they are receiving proper P-K-Ca and micro nutrients. They don't need supplemental nitrogen, but they do want other nutrients, esp zinc, iron, etc.

I can't argue with his results, but not every mango tree responds well to a set-it-and-forget-it approach. I've seen many trees decline and die in that environment. Indeed, some will survive but not all.

Am sold on Keyplex products.  Use their (organic) 350DP on just about everything including mangos.  They are a Florida company.  Contact your rep if interested.

zands

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Re: Dr. Richard Campbell's orchard and some of his favorite mangos
« Reply #49 on: July 17, 2017, 11:21:45 AM »
They make battery powered chain saws that compete with the best gas saws in terms of performance. I have a husqy T536Li X that is a game changer. I love that thing and would never consider going back to hand saw. The no powertool mantra is a little extreme.

Ditto, electric pole saw by Green Works, rechargeable battery. Keeps me off ladders and does a great job even on tough oaks.   Still use my Husquavarna gas chain saw.

Gotta stay off those ladders. Lots of cheap bustard pole chain saws at HEARTLAND-AMERICA website some as low a 64$.  Get the mail in catalog.  Also at Harbor Freight. Lithium battery types and AC connected types.  They are all made in China anyway so pick out your intermediary who is selling. It could be HD, Lowes, Nothern Tools, Harbor Freight and so on

My take is that Harbor Freight is forcing its Chinese manufacturers to upgrade to consistency.  I bought crap 3/8 drill from them five years ago. I do not think it would be crap if I bought it today

Electric pole chain saws ....A major advance in  civilization. They will not be denied.   

 

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