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Author Topic: Wanted: Orange Sherbet Mango Tree  (Read 10809 times)

simon_grow

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Re: Wanted: Orange Sherbet Mango Tree
« Reply #100 on: July 10, 2017, 03:14:58 PM »
Based on my observations and my background in genetics and biology, I would agree that the mutant Lemon Zests have different phenotypic shape based on growing in a different environment. I actually have a theory based on what I've observed on my own LZ trees as well as the fruit forming on Franks mutant LZ graft.

If you guys recall, I posted about a similar phenomenon I noticed on my LZ tree. I also had smaller, non kidney bean shaped fruit that were very fat and wide and they were dwarfs compared to a regularly formed Lemon Zest. I just called mine Lemon Zest nubbins and although they do taste different, I do not believe they are true bud mutations. If they are bud mutations, the mutation must be in a gene that is extremely volatile and probably heavily influenced by the environment because I see a similar "mutation" in my trees fruit.

I do not believe it is a mutation but instead, there are environmental factors when growing this variety here in SoCal that cause incomplete pollination of the ovaries. The pollination is sufficient to initiate fruit formation but from my observations, the pollination is insufficient for producing a viable embryo or if an embryo is produced, it is extremely tiny compared to a normal LZ embryo.

We can test this theory by having Frank post pictures of the fruit when it is fully ripe and showing pictures of the inside of the fruit along with pictures of the seed husk and the embryo inside. If my theory is correct, the fully formed "mutant" Lemon Zest will be much shorter than a regular LZ and the seed and embryo will be very thin and have a tiny or almost non existent embryo.

Simon

TheDom

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Re: Wanted: Orange Sherbet Mango Tree
« Reply #101 on: July 10, 2017, 03:29:00 PM »
Naranja mango aka Mutant LZ
Looks like OS


So is that an LZ seedling?
Dom

simon_grow

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Re: Wanted: Orange Sherbet Mango Tree
« Reply #102 on: July 10, 2017, 03:37:58 PM »
Here's are some more observations I've made. The LZ nubbins can get to several inches long but are usually 1/2 the size of much smaller than a regular LZ. These fruit also tend to have very prominent lenticels. When I tested the Brix of these LZ nubbins or mutants, they were extremely high, above 31% IIRC and the taste is creamy and has more orange than lemon flavor. I even shared one with Leo Manuel and he said it was super sweet, too sweet if you ask me.

My Lemon Zest on Florida Turpentine produces only these smaller rounder fruit, many of which crack before they are ripe. I took scions from this LZ tree which produces small nubbin fruit and grafted it onto Lavern Manilla rootstock and the fruit are mostly fully formed and have that slight kidney bean shape.

Another thing I noticed is that my LZ on Turpentine rootstock had flower panicles that were severely infected with Powdery Mildew. My LZ graft on Lavern Manilla had very Minor Powdery Mildew. I wouldn't be surprised if the germinating spores of Powdery Mildew somehow affect complete pollination of the fruit.

Here are pictures of my Florida grafted LZ on Turpentine rootstock. Notice the small, round fruit that are starting to get fat. They also have prominent lenticels.








Simon

simon_grow

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Re: Wanted: Orange Sherbet Mango Tree
« Reply #103 on: July 10, 2017, 03:40:47 PM »
Here are pictures of my LZ on Lavern Manilla rootstock. The scions were taken from the Turpentine rootstock tree that produces the smaller nubbin fruit.



Simon

behlgarden

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Re: Wanted: Orange Sherbet Mango Tree
« Reply #104 on: July 10, 2017, 04:04:13 PM »
great observation there Simon. Franks Mutant if true must reproduce similar mangoes elsewhere, possibly say in Florida. we should send some wood there to someone to experiment.

JF

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Re: Wanted: Orange Sherbet Mango Tree
« Reply #105 on: July 10, 2017, 04:21:54 PM »
great observation there Simon. Franks Mutant if true must reproduce similar mangoes elsewhere, possibly say in Florida. we should send some wood there to someone to experiment.

I'm willing to send some scions for testing  to Miami. I have also grafted the LZ mutant in an undisclosed area in Yucatán so we will soon know the results
And Simon is correct LZ are a magnet to powdery midew but in my observation you can't tell in which rootstock is worse .,.... I'm facing out LZ and going with the mutant



JF

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Re: Wanted: Orange Sherbet Mango Tree
« Reply #106 on: July 10, 2017, 08:55:56 PM »
See Simon I disagree with your theory. Explain why LZ from  non mutant branch grows normal. Only from that branch. I will keep calling a sport of LZ and name it naranja






Jose Spain

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Re: Wanted: Orange Sherbet Mango Tree
« Reply #107 on: July 11, 2017, 01:02:51 PM »
great observation there Simon. Franks Mutant if true must reproduce similar mangoes elsewhere, possibly say in Florida. we should send some wood there to someone to experiment.

I'm willing to send some scions for testing  to Miami. I have also grafted the LZ mutant in an undisclosed area in Yucatán so we will soon know the results
And Simon is correct LZ are a magnet to powdery midew but in my observation you can't tell in which rootstock is worse .,.... I'm facing out LZ and going with the mutant

Well, if you want to know how mango naranjo does in the Old World here you got a volunteer to give it a try! :D

I agree with you that your naranjo seems a real mutation, it happens more often than we usually realize. I can remember Ficus benjamina variegata with a normal, all green branch, or Acer negundo with a branch that holds 3 pairs of leaves per nude instead of the usual two. IMO when differences are confined to a specific branch and they are steady along the time, we have a real mutation instead of a different phenotypic expression. And on the contrary, when differences appear in different branches at the same time, on a specific rootstock or in half of the fruits from the same bud, then we most likely got different expressions from an identical genome.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2017, 04:04:21 PM by Jose Spain »
Jose

behlgarden

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Re: Wanted: Orange Sherbet Mango Tree
« Reply #108 on: July 11, 2017, 03:30:58 PM »
Frank, I second your statement, I looked up my LZ Sport fruits that I grafted from budwood distribution from you from 2 years ago, and fruits are curved fat like yours.

simon_grow

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Re: Wanted: Orange Sherbet Mango Tree
« Reply #109 on: July 11, 2017, 03:37:26 PM »
See Simon I disagree with your theory. Explain why LZ from  non mutant branch grows normal. Only from that branch. I will keep calling a sport of LZ and name it naranja






Hey Frank, my theory is just a theory until it is proven right or wrong. Your branch may very well be a bud mutation in which case you should be able to plant the seed from the resulting tree and the clone will also be like the parent. I feel it is environmental because of what I'm observing from my trees although your mutant fruit looks much larger than my nubbins. it would be great if you do have a mutation that has better resistance to Powdery Mildew. Are your mutant LZ fruits smaller in length compared to your regular LZ?
Simon

simon_grow

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Re: Wanted: Orange Sherbet Mango Tree
« Reply #110 on: July 11, 2017, 03:40:25 PM »
Frank, I second your statement, I looked up my LZ Sport fruits that I grafted from budwood distribution from you from 2 years ago, and fruits are curved fat like yours.

Behl, I believe the curved fat fruit are from Franks normal LZ fruit. His mutants do not appear curved to me.

Simon

JF

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Re: Wanted: Orange Sherbet Mango Tree
« Reply #111 on: July 11, 2017, 04:15:59 PM »
Hey Simon
Fruit is smaller rounder shows lenticels as it ripens.....not a runt by any means. Taste is a bit chalky sweet citrusy.....I will plant the seed to see if it reproduces a clone. I've grafted this mutant all over the place and fruits are the same. Here is an example on my friends yard
 


Bush2Beach

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Re: Wanted: Orange Sherbet Mango Tree
« Reply #112 on: July 11, 2017, 05:52:08 PM »
But where's all the "glory" and ego stroking in that?
Re-naming "new varieties" is one of the most confusing things to perpetrate on the garden community.
 Not answering questions about your magnificent new creation furthers the confusion.

Naranja mango aka Mutant LZ
Looks like OS


I don't think what you have is a bud sport. I think it's simply a phenotypical difference based on the environmental conditions.

A few years ago in Australia, the government went around the country and collected what they thought were many different variations of Kensington Pride. They took all of these different selections and planted them all in one location. Once they started to fruit, they all were the exact same KP. I think that is what you're experiencing.

I think you should really hold back on the constant re-naming of your "new varieties" and "bud sports". Why don't you plant some monoembryonic seeds and name the resulting tree instead of constantly trying to re-name other peoples varieties?

JF

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Re: Wanted: Orange Sherbet Mango Tree
« Reply #113 on: July 11, 2017, 11:53:23 PM »
But where's all the "glory" and ego stroking in that?
Re-naming "new varieties" is one of the most confusing things to perpetrate on the garden community.
 Not answering questions about your magnificent new creation furthers the confusion.

Naranja mango aka Mutant LZ
Looks like OS


I don't think what you have is a bud sport. I think it's simply a phenotypical difference based on the environmental conditions.

A few years ago in Australia, the government went around the country and collected what they thought were many different variations of Kensington Pride. They took all of these different selections and planted them all in one location. Once they started to fruit, they all were the exact same KP. I think that is what you're experiencing.

I think you should really hold back on the constant re-naming of your "new varieties" and "bud sports". Why don't you plant some monoembryonic seeds and name the resulting tree instead of constantly trying to re-name other peoples varieties?
and I have Sheehan
I have a Juliette and a Super Haden seedlings which I've fruited in 2015-16 and I named it Parson & Villa Clara

 





« Last Edit: July 11, 2017, 11:57:10 PM by JF »

suhaila

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red jack grafted plant for sale
« Reply #114 on: July 19, 2017, 03:05:15 AM »
if anyone interested pls send a email

 

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