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Messages - Tom

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26
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Xie Shan Satsuma Trees
« on: March 02, 2018, 12:29:21 AM »
Hi Darkman ! Great to hear from you ! It’s been a while. I hope you are feeling better. Yes my hoop is hanging in there but you know I want something bigger and better !!

Mr. Texas I agree Satsumas do fine as low as 18* F. IF the sats are in a dormant state. Here and probably where you are it can be 80 degrees at Christmas and we can get hurt with a surge of cold air in less than 2 weeks. Also late freezes can be a real problem.

18 is about as cold as we get but I’ve had 14 degrees a few times and I can remember single digits twice in my life. I’m almost 66 years old and single digits are very rare here. 14 is not a common occurance every year at all but it happens way too much !

Darkman, Millet asked me for your number a while ago, maybe about  when you had a bad spell of health. I think maybe you had changed numbers or something. You might have felt so bad you didn’t want to be reached ! I remember Millet was trying to get in touch but I couldn’t help. I haven’t heard from you for a while !

On a little different note, I’m thrilled we are finally in March ! When we had cattle the old saying was February shakes em but March takes em. March can still have some brutal cold days !

Tom

27
Citrus General Discussion / Re: What is your favorite tasting mandarin?
« on: February 28, 2018, 10:25:33 PM »
Xie Shan was the best I’ve had in several taste tests in central Alabama. Also in central Alabama, several years ago I had some Brown Select Satsumas right off the tree and they were really unbelievable !!! I believe the same tree won best in show many years ago at a SE citrus expo. It was grown and entered by John Henderson. A year ago, maybe longer the same tree had very ordinary tasting fruit. Too much fertilizer or too little fertilizer or too much rain at one time.....who knows ! I’m sure it will have excellent fruit again !

All that to say what taste the best in central Alabama is not necessarily what would taste the same somewhere else. Cool nights and warm days are suppose to help the flavor and warm nights hurt the flavor in warmer locales.

Tom

28
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Xie Shan Satsuma Trees
« on: February 28, 2018, 10:07:24 PM »
I have 3 good sized Satsumas in the ground. I’ve lost track of the varieties and exact age. They are too big to be grafted on flying dragon but they are old enough that below their grafts are huge like an elephant foot. I have to trim them every year to keep them in the hoop house. This year I covered them with frost cloth for only two very cold periods. Once for 2 weeks of very cold weather and then about 3 days for cold weather. They have never had a really huge crop. I’m sure all the pruning hurts but it can’t be helped. My fruit it very puffy most of the time.

Some years are definitely better than others and they are about 10 years old , maybe more but not much more. I probably need to pick earlier in the fall too. I wish I’d put Satsumas in the ground that were grafted to flying dragon. Same with my nongrafted Meyer.

The Meyer is huge, often needs trimming but I’ve had over 300 lemons several times. Never had 300 Satsumas counting all three trees in one year. I’ve often trimmed to keep the citrus in the frame for winter but I’m not ever going to climb a citrus tree to pick fruit !

Bottom line, I think flying dragon rootstock would have been much better for me. Smaller trees, smaller fruit and better tasting fruit resulting from the flying dragon root stock !

All my Xie Shans are still in pots and I don’t know what their rootstock were when I bought them. Most of my Xie Shan plants came from Four Winds Nursery in California. At least 2 Xie Shans died on me in pots. Tough summers, not great potting soil, and  too much water sometimes probably killed them but they were both on flying dragon. Flying dragon might be harder to keep alive in pots. Especially if you are loving them too much, meaning I probably watered them too much and the potting soil didn’t drain fast enough.

I’ve been looking for where my Xie Shan trees came from. I don’t see any Xie Shan on the 4 Winds web site. I know I’ve bought Xie Shan whenever I could find them. Petals from the Past doesn’t list Xie Shan but they do have them sometimes in their store.

That’s my thinking right now . I hope that makes sense and helps somebody !

Tom

29
The best Satsuma I ever ate was from a tree about 20 years old. 2 or 3 years later the same tree had fruit that had very little taste. Very bland and ordinary. Sometimes there are unknown factors affecting taste. Same problem with watermelons, cantaloupe, wine and even beef steak ! Can be very frustrating ! Tom

30
I'm intrigued by this xie Shan. The ucr collection calls it a satsuma.

I have a satsuma that was bought and planted about 6 years ago. It was purchased at a home Depot type store. Any chance it's the same fruit as the xie Shan? Here is the tag.


Probably not a Xie Shan but it’s possible. Owari is the most common Satsuma planting in the US. One spring I saw lots of plants for sale at Costco. They were all tagged “Tomato”. That’s all, just Tomato ! Frankly that’s covering a lot of ground but that’s all it said. Cheap price and I like Costco but that was a shock !

31
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Name That Orange
« on: February 13, 2018, 10:27:18 PM »
Excellent. Thank you ! Tom

32
Vlad, yes. I’m sure environmental factors affect the flavor but I’m not sure we know what will or did affect flavor until it’s too late of even beyond our control. Fruits and vegetables and other food stuffs can vary greatly from year to year. Many variables to numerous to list but here is just a start. Too much or too little : sun, heat, water, cold, insect damage, fertilizer and so forth ! It is not easy. Tom

33
Citrus General Discussion / Re: When to Pick Moro Blood Orange?
« on: February 04, 2018, 11:50:39 PM »
I had three Cara Cara navel on a small potted plant that I just picked. They had great taste and lots of color. Not blood red but very red for a navel in central Alabama !

34
I’ve had some that were very green and seemed more like most lemons. I had some very yellow that were insipid. I’d guess like limes they are best right before they start to yellow.

35
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Green house / hoop house
« on: February 04, 2018, 11:43:27 PM »
The best way to prevent greening would be buy guaranteed disease free plants and put them in a screened enclosure that would keep all insects out. That’s the only way I know of if you are in an area that’s susceptible to greening. The insect is very small. There are varieties unknown to me that are thought to be resistant to greening at this time. Good luck ! Tom

36
I had a few leaves turn brown but for the most part everything came through better than I hoped. I had 4 inground citrus covered with frost cloth and used 4 strings of c9 old fashioned incandescent Christmas tree lights up and down the row. I did not go around each tree individually. I checked on the lights several times during the extended cold spell. One day I realized at least one string of lights had blown a tiny fuse in the plug of the string. I was so upset I really don’t remember if it affected 1 or 2 strings. The wind had caused the wire to twist at the plug and the tiny fuse popped. I got that fixed pretty easy and was replacing some burned out bulbs when I popped another fuse !

All that to set up my remarks for Isaac-1, how do you use the 250 watt bulbs ? I think each string of c9 bulbs is 175 watts and I like how the heat is spread around instead of being more isolated on one spot. Could some of your leaves been damaged by too much heat during the day ? That’s assuming you left everything on during the day. I left everything on because it stayed mighty cold most days too !

I am so ready for this winter to be over. It has been tough and it’s just now February. I was just reading that Valentine’s Day is a great time to start fertilizer. They said even though still too cold the fertilizer will not work immediately in cold temps but it will be available when temps warm up. I get it but that scares
me !

I’m seriously considering the possibility of doing an imadacloripide , Merit or similar, drench about then to try killing citrus leaf miners and any other leaf eating or sucking insects.

Tom

37
Citrus General Discussion / Re: My plants in Perth western Australia
« on: February 02, 2018, 09:52:09 AM »
How often do you spray neem oil for citrus leaf miner and how do you keep from damaging your citrus in very hot temps ? Are you growing some citrus in pots in the ground ? If yes how is that going and how large are the buried pots ? Thanks. Tom

38
Citrus General Discussion / Re: C35 rootstock tree size
« on: February 02, 2018, 09:45:09 AM »
I have called Four Winds and they have been very helpful. They are an older company and they try very hard to please the customer. The company history on their website is very interesting. They told me they use what they think is the best rootstock to allow the tree to live. Yes the rootstock is usually Cuban Shaddock.

Flying Dragon is a great rootstock and very dwarfing.

I have a huge Meyer that was grown from a cutting. It is huge and I wouldn’t recommend a cutting propagated Meyer. It is too big for me and the thorns are nasty. It does make a huge amount of fruit ! I’ve since discovered that a majority of , not all , Meyers are grown from cuttings because it’s cheaper and faster.

Since I took the Meyer out of the pot it has exploded in growth. Maybe somebody else can tell us what an ungrafted Meyer would do if you kept it in a large pot. You might be able to leave the pot in the ground.

Tom

39
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citrus in the Pacific Northwest
« on: February 01, 2018, 12:09:14 PM »
The general explanation has been that the jet stream has been moving around in unusual patterns this year. Hard to believe but a dip in the artic jet stream caused central AL to be colder than parts of Canada at the same time. Yes it has been rough and the flu seems worse too. Tom

40
The lemon graft will still be a lemon, the orange will still be a orange and the kumquat will still be a kumquat. You would have started what Millet wrote about above when he mentioned his friend had 100 different citrus fruit on one tree. They are often called a fruit cocktail tree. As also mentioned above many people would rather keep their varieties separate as in keep the tangerine tree as is. Buy an orange tree if you want an orange and buy a kumquat tree if you want kumquats.

I also favor this way and think it’s best. A multi fruit tree is a great conversation starter but I think the individual fruit trees grow more fruit and are easier to care for. In your example the kumquat would probably be a lot later blooming, setting fruit and ripen later. Different limbs on a fruit cocktail tree would often have different needs at different times.

The first blooms would be the first fruit. Then when another limb of another fruit starts blooming you might need to treat the limb with fruit different than the blooming limb and so forth all year long.

I don’t like to spray poison on fruit ,or food, that I know I will be eating. I spray a horticulural oil several times a year to kill insects but spraying oil on blooms is a no no. Spraying oils on small fruit can also be a problem.

When using any chemicals always read the directions and warnings carefully. If you use horticultural oil when it’s too hot you can hurt your leaves and the tree badly. You can usually spray at night and if you get too scared like me you can wash it off at daybreak ! No harm done and very possible usually on a small scale.

I hope this makes sense but if you want to practice grafting or budding and would enjoy a fruit cocktail tree by all means go for it. It’s your tree for you to enjoy !

Tom

41
Citrus General Discussion / Re: If You Live In California
« on: January 12, 2018, 11:25:23 AM »
I think I saw Vintage Sweets at Costco in Montgomery the other day. If not the same it was very similar branding because I’d never noticed it before.

42
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Georgia Freeze
« on: January 12, 2018, 10:15:20 AM »
South Georgia and Central Alabama had a blast a week ago and another blast is already on its way again. Predicted lows are not quite as low as last week and again temps will rise above freezing each day. With young trees like those pictured ice can be very destructive by breaking lots of limbs. You gotta do what you gotta do.

I really like the idea of wrapping a little more than 36” of small tubing wrapped around the tree trunk carrying water to a micro mister on the top of each tree. The water temp in the tube keeps the trunk from freezing and the micro mister helps the same way as always used. The added benefit it the long tube wrapped around the tree supplying water to the mister instead of the tube just going straight to the mister. The idea is the tube carries water from the ground that’s warmer than freezing and it is discharged quickly enough to prevent freezing in the tubing while insulating the trunk too.

I saw this in south Alabama and it has worked great for the guy that figured out the longer tubing. I think he used 44” and it really helped. These really unusual freezing events make growing citrus very difficult but there are innovations that can help. After Satsumas get older and larger they are more cold hardy than most edible citrus.

If it was easy everybody would be doing it.

Tom

43
Most of the video seemed to be shot from a drone to me ! I saw lots of small replants all through the grove.

44
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Long term cold hardy citrus breeding project
« on: December 28, 2017, 10:10:01 PM »
I think the old forum was  citrusforumup.com  it is long gone but there are efforts being made to resurrect it or at least try to make the archives accessible. It was owned and operated by Laaz and he had several administrative assistants [including Millet who started this site] but he called them something else. Seems that nobody’s heard from Laaz lately.

45
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Can you overmulch citrus in San Diego?
« on: December 26, 2017, 11:27:33 PM »
The official position of master gardeners in central AL for treating problem soils that are too sandy or too much clay is the same. Mulch. as much as possible. The original question was ‘can you mulch citrus too much in San Diego’. I believe huge amounts of mulch all at one time could be too much as described by Millet above. Citrus does not seem to like the heavy black belt alkaline soils that run through central AL. Citrus does better in sandy more acidic soils. No doubt a sandy loam is best and hard to beat. Tom

46
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Can you overmulch citrus in San Diego?
« on: December 18, 2017, 03:07:18 PM »
Bush2Beach, the question was ‘can you overmulch Citrus in San Diego?’ From Millet’s answer I think it is possible to over mulch to the detriment of your trees. I read your comments (a rant perhaps ) several times and I’m guessing that it is your opinion that it’s impossible to overmulch in San Diego. That is a statement of absolute that is not defendable by any know research. That would be like saying apples are always red , which is false by the way but might be what you believe.

The way I read your post, most of your comments are attacks and absolutes. They are also unproven as best I can see. They are your opinion but not based on any research that I am familiar with.  Perhaps you would find that a more kind and more gentle approach might be more appreciated by other people.

As far as the answer to the original question,’ can you overmulch in San Diego ? ‘ With no formal training I know 1 aspirin can be very good for you once a day but 7 aspirin once a week is not so good. A warning would need to be added that some people can be allergic to aspirin and they should avoid aspirin and aspirin like products.

My grands just walked in so I guess my rant has been long enough.

Millet , thank you for your answer to the mulch question.

Tom

47
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Moro not flowering??
« on: December 14, 2017, 10:16:38 AM »
How old does the new wood needs to be before flowering?





Susan you ask a very good question that I don’t know the answer to. I thought citrus bloomed on 1 or 2 year old growth.  The answer probably involves how late or early you prune in the calendar year. I’d guess if you finished pruning in late winter there would be a flush of growth and blooms in the spring ? My 2 kumquats bloom very late in the year. Very late to me because it seems like mid summer at least until they bloom. I pruned my inground Satsumas and Meyer in late fall and a little bit in early spring and this year my fruit volume is way down. I don’t know if it’s the severe pruning I did to keep them under the frost cloth frame or if it might have been just an off year made worse by a late freeze.

My guess is do your severe pruning very late or very early so you don’t affect the next year’s bloom and crop. It’s ok to nip a little bit here and there but the less pruning the better. In container citrus it’s not a good idea to cut out a lot of the top growth without taking the same % out of the roots when the citrus is root bound.

Susan the picture of your citrus looks very good to me. Does it get to spend plenty of time outside with plenty of sunshine in the summer ?

Tom

48
Citrus General Discussion / Re: New Member, Central Texas
« on: December 14, 2017, 09:50:34 AM »
marant, welcome to the forum ! We are glad you found it. I think you will enjoy it for hours. You will be an excellent and valuable member. Thank you for your input. Tom

49
Brief recap,

Laaz paid a fee per month for the site of the old citrus forum. It was a ‘forumup’ site I think. Somebody said the fee was very small. Does that mean Laaz owned the ‘rights’ to the old citrus forum ? Laaz ran , hosted or otherwise had some leadership function in a popular old citrus forum. Laaz had some health problems and lost interest in the forum.

About the same time the forum seemed to blow up. It had very intermittent service, often down for weeks and new members could not get authorized to join or post on the old forum. To me it was like a dead ship in the ocean. Millet was a very active member of the old forum so he initiated contact with the tropical plant people that allowed Millet to start a citrus leg or component here.

Laaz has made a few token appearances in print here but I haven’t seen anything lately. He seems to have lost interest or maybe has other problems.

The new forum (here where you are reading) was started by Millet and it seems to be well received all over the world. Several people in this thread are interested in trying to copy or otherwise make available content they have copied or might be able to copy from the old forum. There are many members that have been on both forums.

I enjoyed the old forum and I am in favor or keeping it available for all to view !

Tom

50
Citrus General Discussion / Re: New Zealand Lemonade Tree
« on: November 30, 2017, 05:59:57 PM »
vanman, your containers are beautiful. Do you know the gallons of soil and how long do you think you can keep your citrus in that size container ?  Do you have other citrus in these containers ? Reminds me of what I’ve seen in Versailles ! I’ve seen containers like that for sale and they can be very pricey ! Millet and/or maybe others have similar containers sometimes on pallets to move around as necessary. Again, maybe that is Versailles, great job !!! Tom

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