Minature Greenhouses for Winter in Florida

[Mr. Clean]

I was thinking of making minature greenhouses for my smaller trees, which may be more cold sensative, such as Mamey Sapote.  My trees are only about 18 inches tall right now.  I was thinking of using a tomato cage and wraping it with clear plastic to make a wind block and leave it open on the top, so rain could get in.  I wouldn't put it up until November or so.  What are your thoughts?  Do you have any better design ideas that are cost effective?

[Patrick]

Dont forget to prepare a power cord and light bulb for warmth!

[Mr. Clean]

Dont forget to prepare a power cord and light bulb for warmth!

I'm not quite that motivated...the trees didn't cost that much.

[Tropicalgrower89]

I think mamey sapote trees are more cold sensitive when they are young, but I've read that their cold hardiness is 25-30*F, I guess that range depends on the cultivar or age/size.

[bsbullie]

November can have pretty warm temps and a little early for damaging cold winds where no shelter would be warranted or needed.  Unless we get extreme cold, your biggest concerns would be from the chilling winds .  I would first maybe focus on an overall windbreak for the perimeter of your yard.  I don't know what deed restrictions you are under so you need to take that into consideration.  As far as the chilling winds and plant damage go, I would be most concerned with your lychees, soursop, abiu and other fruits that may be overly sensitive..

[natsgarden123]

Christmas lights work well...

[Patrick]

Absolutely, anything to raise the temp a little.. I made the mistake of just insulating a couple years ago! Trees arent mammals! They dont produce any heat of their own, so all you end up doing is reducing the wind a little bit and locking in the cold the follwing morning till the sun warms the "hut".

[CoPlantNut]

Yes, in my experience here in Colorado, an unheated shelter will only work to protect plants from a light frost (30-31 degrees) if it is much wider than it is tall-- the ground will provide enough heat to keep the plant from freezing.  For a structure with more surface area than ground contact, a heat source is needed inside to prevent cold damage.

   Kevin

[fruitlovers]

Dont forget to prepare a power cord and light bulb for warmth!

I'm not quite that motivated...the trees didn't cost that much.

Mark, you're not just protecting the cost of the trees, but also the work involved in getting them, planting them, weeding them, watering them, and nourishing them. Also you would lose not just that work but also the potential payoff in fruits in the future. Some people may think "if the trees get damaged i'll just replace them". But after a few times of losing them you may lose all interests due to the hassle. Also even if you do replace them you have to wait even longer for new trees to fruit....just some things to consider. You seem very organized...so best to get it right the first time.
About your tomato cage idea, i don't think most tomato cages are big enough to properly shelter a tree. Xmas lights seem like good idea to raise temperatures a bit. I wonder if the lights could be combined with a real Xmas decoration? Isn't Xmas time the most dangerous time as far as cold artic blasts?

[amaqeq]

fruitlovers
your words carved in stone
after having to dig for planting a tree in dry clay soil, adding a shelter with heating is Negligible
so is with resetting the timer for every late tree
but I can also understand Mr. Clean
maybe doing more than passive protection is not feasible for him
in that case every shelter in good size can help a bit
leaving the rest for the nature to decide

[zands]

I was thinking of making minature greenhouses for my smaller trees, which may be more cold sensative, such as Mamey Sapote.  My trees are only about 18 inches tall right now.  I was thinking of using a tomato cage and wraping it with clear plastic to make a wind block and leave it open on the top, so rain could get in.  I wouldn't put it up until November or so.  What are your thoughts?  Do you have any better design ideas that are cost effective?

What you have to ask yourself is -->>>
Is my little greenhouse going to save my tree at night only to cook it when the sun comes out?

[MarinFla]

I personally don't put up protection unless less than 35 degree temps are predicted. And If I am going to the effort of putting up structures I would make the effort to add a heat source as well. Christmas lights are great for small ones or a ceramic space heater with thermostat for bigger structures.

[Mr. Clean]

Thank you for all of the great ideas.  I guess my thought is I don't want a tree that is a permanent project.  If a tree dies during an average winter... I will plant something DIFFERENT in it's place that would likely survive.  I have sandy soil; it is very easy to dig in.  I enjoy fruit trees as well as the next person, but I want to reap the harvest sometime, rather having a perpetual project.

[fruitlovers]

Sorry to break it to you Mark, but trees ARE perpetual projects, especially if you want to get any fruit off of them.

[Mr. Clean]

Sorry to break it to you Mark, but trees ARE perpetual projects, especially if you want to get any fruit off of them.

Oscar,

Thanks for breaking it to me gently.     I understand.  I enjoy certain aspects of taking care of trees, such as tipping, pruning, fertilizing, and harvesting fruit.  But I don't want to have to watch the weather constantly and worry my fruit trees are going to freeze in the winter...that would take a lot of the fun out of raising trees for me. 

If my yard was not meant to support certain trees, then I need to make adjustments to my tree selection.  In essence, a micro-darwanism in my yard.  My selection of trees has been to try to find ones that are easy to raise and productive.  But I guess if a severe freeze (30F or below) is coming, I may be tempted to be out with my waterhose spraying my trees with water.

For my small mamey sapotes (they are only about 20" tall), I'm planning on building a small shade structure with 50% cloth to create a tropical climate and leave it up during the winter as a windbreak.

[fruitlovers]

Sorry to break it to you Mark, but trees ARE perpetual projects, especially if you want to get any fruit off of them.

Oscar,

Thanks for breaking it to me gently.     I understand.  I enjoy certain aspects of taking care of trees, such as tipping, pruning, fertilizing, and harvesting fruit.  But I don't want to have to watch the weather constantly and worry my fruit trees are going to freeze in the winter...that would take a lot of the fun out of raising trees for me. 

If my yard was not meant to support certain trees, then I need to make adjustments to my tree selection.  In essence, a micro-darwanism in my yard.  My selection of trees has been to try to find ones that are easy to raise and productive.  But I guess if a severe freeze (30F or below) is coming, I may be tempted to be out with my waterhose spraying my trees with water.

For my small mamey sapotes (they are only about 20" tall), I'm planning on building a small shade structure with 50% cloth to create a tropical climate and leave it up during the winter as a windbreak.

Yes, i understand Mark. I don't like to fuss too much also about my plants. I'm not much of a "zone pusher". For example, when i lived in Southern California i never attempted to grow mangosteen, durian, rambutan, langsat, etc. Here i don't make too many attempts to grow temperate trees. Most of the few attempts i did make failed. I stick mostly to what is adapted to the climate where i live. I don't recall exactly what you planted, but it seems from my faded memory that you did plant some trees that will be kaput as soon as a freeze reaches you. And sooner or later it will reach you. So this is something to keep in mind in your future tree selections if you don't want to protect them.

[natsgarden123]

Good news here is that no-matter what, chances are all will be ok. The trees may be stunted a bit, ( I'm not talking about ultra-tropicals, which I think Mark does not have),  but they will come back.   I've been doing this since 1997; that's my experience. 

I understand there was a bad freeze here in the 1980's and with that said, most of the trees made it anyway, according to my husband ( who was born here) and his family , who have been here for generations.  He said that millions+  of crops were lost, but the fruit trees, except for a few exceptions, did fine. They were in the produce business and they saw huge losses there.

People like Patrick, who have a nursery and/or who LIVE for this hobby, want their trees to be as beautiful as possible, so a set-back may be painful.


Can we rehash the "spraying with water to prevent damage" issue?

[FloridaGreenMan]

Here's what I did during 2009 to help my smallest Abiu make it during the cold. I made a structure using bamboo poles and some some packaging (foam cloth) from some furniture that we bought and it worked great. That Abiu is now 7 feet tall and has flowered.  The coldest we got was 33 degrees for one night. It's important to remove this before the sun comes out or your tree could get baked by the sun the next day.   

[ericalynne]

I use a circle of woven wire fencing enough to go around the tree. This is covered with a floor padding product that is thin compact foam. The main advantage of this product is that it is such good insulation that when the temps go up and the sun comes out, the shelter does not overheat. So it can be left on/around the trees the entire cold season and also works as a wind break.  I cover the top with blankets for nights below freezing. For tender things, I also put in an incandescent light bulb. Christmas lights do not put out much warmth.

I have kept two young mango trees through the winter even with 24 degree nights with this system.

Erica

[Mr. Clean]

Can we rehash the "spraying with water to prevent damage" issue?

Spraying water on trees can prevent damage from the cold.  Citrus orchards in Florida do this when with overhead sprinklers when the temperatures near freezing.  The water is warmer than the air, so it warms up the tree a little to help the tree survive.

[Guanabanus]

If your trees are in a circle that you can stand in the middle of and twirl that hose as fast as a RainBird, then you have a good idea--- if you have a night's worth of stamina!

If you simply wet a plant's foliage, and then move elsewhere in your garden, you will be adding substantial hydrochill damage.

[Mr. Clean]

Anybody have pictures of mini-shade structures or mini-green houses that they built around a tree?  I saw the pictures of William Whitman's shade structures in his book, made with cast iron plumbing pipes.  I'm thinking of PVC or maybe 1"x2" pressure treated wood.

[ReneeFLL]

Something I have done in the past to cover large orchids that were in the ground was to build a structure around it. We would make it out of pvc and make a square structure. You can make them any size. We would cover it in plastic and put a light buld inside. You will definately have to take the plastic off before it cooks. It is not as cost effective as the tomato cage, but you can make them any size and save them for next year. If it is to windy you can stake it so it does not blow over.

[ReneeFLL]

Anybody have pictures of mini-shade structures or mini-green houses that they built around a tree?  I saw the pictures of William Whitman's shade structures in his book, made with cast iron plumbing pipes.  I'm thinking of PVC or maybe 1"x2" pressure treated wood.

I was typing as you posted about pvc or wood. We always used pvc. Easy to take apart, store and lighter than wood.

[Mr. Clean]

After further thought...I intend to build PVC structures wraped with plastic.  I wish to use a heat source that does not require an extension cord.  I was thinking of using chemical hand warmers or candles (like the St Mary candles in glass jars that burn for 3 days).  Any experiences with these heat sources?

I researched the cold tolerance of my trees and realized that I have some high risk trees until they get bigger. 

The fruit trees that I am most concerned about are my:

Mamey Sapotes,
Jackfruits,
Lychee, and
Sapodillas.

[CoPlantNut]

I built an entire 16'X8'x7' plant grow room frame with 1" PVC pipe many years ago, and have built several smaller structures from PVC more recently; these "side outlet 90" PVC connectors are awesome for such a project, but hard to find in local stores in sizes more than 1/2":



Available from http://www.plumbingsupply.com/pvc.html#so

   Kevin

[fruitlovers]

What about your small mango trees? Aren't they susceptible to frost, especially when small?

[Mr. Clean]

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[Patrick]

This is the set up I used last winter.  Be sure to have anchor cords ready, winter is WINDY!

[Mr. Clean]

This is the set up I used last winter.  Be sure to have anchor cords ready, winter is WINDY!

Did any of your unprotected trees suffer severe damage?  Did your setup save the jackfruit tree from any damage? 

[Patrick]

We had a pretty mild winter this past year so I cant say it was a fair test.  One thing for sure is the humidity stays high, the wind null, and the temp at least a couple degress higher inside the shelter.

[fruitlovers]

That's a great temperature chart Mark. Where is it from? Is it available for any city?
BTW in a thread a long time ago it was brought up that mango is more frost sensitive than rollinia. So either mango is more sensitive than thought or rollinia is lot tougher than thought. Ed reported that some of his mangos were damaged by sub freezing temperatures and rollinia went unscathed.

[Mr. Clean]

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