Polyembryonic Question

[FrankDrebinOfFruits]

Sorry if this is coming across as a dumb question.....what I am I missing (scratching my head)?

So you grow multiple seedlings from a polyembrionic seedling. One of them may be identical to the parent. In affect a genetic clone. One does not know which is the clone. Isn't this just a game of chance? Do people grow all the embryos, or selectively choose one and pray?  Is there any science behind the reset of the DNA.  For example, the tree will believe its starting at age 0, instead of some of our most famous named varieties which can be pushing 100 years?

The only benefit I see with polyembrionic is multiple trees/rootstocks that can be split, or joined together in a multirootstock graft.

[Pancrazio]

In polyembrionic seeds just 1 (or zero) embrios are sexually produced. The others are clones. So yes, for plants with 1 sexually produced embrio choosing one is kinda like a lottery.

[FrankDrebinOfFruits]

In polyembrionic seeds just 1 (or zero) embrios are sexually produced. The others are clones. So yes, for plants with 1 sexually produced embrio choosing one is kinda like a lottery.

Monoembryonic is the combination of DNA.
Polyembrionic, as I had learned is a series of sexually produced embryos, and possibly 1 or 0 clones.  To pick the clone is a lottery. Please correct me if I am wrong.

[Raulglezruiz]

People here in the forum have said long time ago that the little one, wasn't pollinated so that one is the clone; however in the last couple years I notice the concensus of the forum experts had changed, now  most of them say the larger one is the clone..........?

[FrankDrebinOfFruits]

So it appears there is a huge variation in the polyembrionic seeds, and the reason is unexplained.
http://hortsci.ashspublications.org/content/27/2/174.full.pdf

I also read in another article that both the clone and non-clones grow at the same rate, which would contradict using the size to predict which would be clonal material.

Philosophically, I think we can look at it two ways, the mother plant hopes the clones emerge first (avoiding genetic variation), and if the clone doesn't survive then using the cross to succeed. Then one could also look at the problem the opposite way, that the species hopes for more survival by promoting the non-clonal.  http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF02927810#page-1

Either way, I still don't get the intended usage of polyembrionic and how it matters in terms of hobbyists since we tend to rely on grafting/tissue culture/air layers/etc.

[Pancrazio]

Monoembryonic is the combination of DNA.
Polyembrionic, as I had learned is a series of sexually produced embryos, and possibly 1 or 0 clones.  To pick the clone is a lottery. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Well, the embryos in mono and poly do come from different sources.
In monembrionic, the embryo comes from the fertilized egg cell (the thing that is supposed to develop in the embryo). There isn't any interference with the other plant tissue. In polyembrionic plants the sexually produced embryo may lack (it degenerates during the development of the seed) or, if present, is limited to just one of the few embryos presents in the "seed". The other embryos do come from tissue from the mother plant, and this is the reason why they may be more than one.

Regarding the reason why this behavior developed, I’m clueless, and I’m assuming that it can't be said for sure without knowing the original environment where this characteristic developed.

However, the main use for hobbyist is, in my opinion the possibility to have several genetically equal plants with few expense (to me is useful if i want to compare something, for instance i can graft all my mangoes easily on kensington pride and compare different varieties without any influence from the rootstock). The other major advantage is that embryos are usually virus free, so it's a good way to obtain new clones with less worries of you don't trust the provenience of your original plant or you want to be completely safe from a phytosanitary standpoint.

[FrankDrebinOfFruits]

The other major advantage is that embryos are usually virus free, so it's a good way to obtain new clones with less worries of you don't trust the provenience of your original plant or you want to be completely safe from a phytosanitary standpoint.

Ah, that is a very strong point. Thanks. Also probably useful where scion material cannot be imported.

[Millet]

In polyembryonic seedlings the zygote embryo (sexually produced embryo) is normally, but not always, squeezed out by the nucellar embryos that are produced from the nucellar tissue of the mother tree.  This is because the nucellar embryos start growing much sooner then do zygote embryos, thus frequently crowding the zygote out. - Millet