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Messages - Huyen Linh Ho

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Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Yuzu Ichang Papeda cross
« on: September 21, 2019, 09:15:27 PM »
there is a hybrid with satsuma called Ichandarin Liudmila, it's said to taste similar to yuzu.

  Thanks, it is good to know it. Is it as hardy as yuzu? Is it seedless.

  I at first just aim for the leaf taste, but then curious about seedless yuzu. I am working on it now. It might take several years, but it is fun to try.

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Congratulations, it looks like the graft will be successful.

 Thanks kumin.

 Here is an update. (3 days later)






9 days later (6 weeks old)




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I didn't say it's a useless variety! It's good candidate for hybridization.
I grow many from cuttings, I use them as a vigourous cold hardy rootstock, very good for pots.

  Pocirus is a much better rootstock for its better cold hardiness. Ichang papeda is not much more cold tolerant than yuzu but offers low quality fruits, why should people consider ichang papeda in their hybridization program?

  There exist several varieties of poncirus. Some poncirus varieties are vigorous, but some are not. I germinated many flying dragon seeds and seedlings did not seem to be alike. Some are very vigorous and others are extremely contorted and slow growing.

  My friend had to graft ichang papeda onto poncirus to make sure it not getting injured in zone 8a.

The ichang papeda in pictures is not mine. I will ask him for one when his tree grows older.




4
as Ilya has made clear Yuzu -referring to DNA analysis- is no hybrid of ichang papeda. It seems to be a cross of some (probably lost) ichangensis-relative and sour mandarin.

  Oh, thanks. I did not read that post from Ilya. All of the previous assumptions in the past was wrong about yuzu and kaffir lime. There were still many sources claims that kaffir lime is a hybird of citron and papeda, and yuzu is suspected to be a hybrid of Ichang papeda and sour mandarin.

  I still believe that all of the hybrid of either pepada or trifoliate would lose its leaf symmetrical shape. The three leaflets of the trifoliate poncirus leaf is nearly symmetrical, but any of its hybrid loses the leaf symmetry.

 

5
Kaffir lime does not seem to display very symetrically sized leaf petioles in its early stages growing as a seedling. I grew several from seed and their leaves look similar to Yuzu. Most likely they will display more papeda like foliage as they grow bigger.

 Have you tried ichang papeda seedlings? I wonder whether or not the same situation would occur to ichang papeda when it was young.

6
It's not a hybrid of Ichang papeda, it's another species of papeda (or a hybrid of that species of papeda).

I seem to recall something about being Kaffir lime likely being a hybrid of Khasi papeda, but cannot remember now.

  Thank you for the confimation that it was not a hybrid of ichang papeda.

  I believe that all of papeda hybrid will lose their perfect ratio of leaf winged petiole and leaflet. The special character of papeda family was its distinct leaf shape. For example, yuzu has a much smaller leaf petiole comparing to ichang papeda.

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Here is an update on the same ichang papeda grafted seedling. It is now exactly 5 weeks old. The owner cut off the upper part of the scionwood to concentrate energy on the new shoot. There was no new bud at all at 4 weeks old.






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I grew some cuttings inside a grow enclosure, it helps hold in humidity; under constant artificial light, they grew very well.

Ichang papeda does have more drought tolerance than other citrus but in its native climate it still receives rain and is fairly humid during the summer.

For a small seedling growing outside, it's better to keep it consistently watered and put it in partial shade. (It still needs a fair amount of sun, but cooler morning sun is better) It depends of course on what your climate is like, but it should do just fine where you are, except for the winter.
You might even wish to cover it with a clear plastic bag (maybe with a few air holes in it) to help hold humidity. I don't think it needs that but it might help if you're in a dry hot area.

I don't think there's anything in particular about Ichang papeda that would make it more difficult to grow than other citrus.
It does tend to be a slower growing species, but I've found them to have strong dependable growth, they are not frail.

Make sure you're also giving the soil a chance to dry out just a little between waterings. You don't want the soil constantly wet all the time, that could contribute to root rot. But try to keep the soil from drying out too much for too long, if that makes sense.

I predict your seedling will survive and grow, as long as it's given a little water every 2 or 3 days, but because of its small size right now, it may be a while before it puts on much growth.
Edit: I did not see that it was grafted before. Now I'm thinking there's a possibility the upper part may be able to survive, but it's not going to do well any time soon.

Even cold hardy citrus like this does not handle sudden temperature changes from growing inside to being taken outside in the winter, so if you decide to try to grow it inside during the winter, make sure it does not go outside until temperatures have warmed up.

If it helps at all, my grow enclosure stays at about 78 F, and sometimes the temperature in there rises to 86 on hot days. With adequate humidity, they seem to like that.

 Thanks Socal2warm. This is not my plant. I took pictures from my friend's garden. I will show your comment to my friend. He will be very thankful.

9
  My friend said that the seller sold him the bad scionwood on purpose because the seller was reluctant to share the cultivar. He knew that the scionwood was not a good one, but he had no choice. The seller was an experienced citrus grafter but sent out bad scionwood. My friend is an expert in grafting as well.

  He did not want to shorten the scionwood because it was an old scionwood that might have been stored for a while before shipped out to him. He kept as many buds as possible just in case. As long as it is alive, he will multiply it.

10
  Does anyone know what temperature is best for ichang papeda growth. Does it prefer high humid?

  One of my friend grafted a branch of Ichang Papeda 1 month ago and the scionwood now is still green and healthy to the look; however, no new shoot yet. I also came to his garden to take pictures of it. He said if the graft was failed, the scionwood should had been dried or turned yellow after 1 to 2 weeks. I just wonder what would be the best temperature and humidity level for ichang papeda growth.











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  Thank you for your interesting info about them. By instinct I agreeed that ichang papeda might have longer thorn though I never had an actual comparison. I went to a Vietnamese grocery store here and they also sold kaffir lime as well. Those kaffir lime they sold were ranging from 4' to 6', they did not appear to have very big thorns. Unfortunately, they did not carry any ichang papeda beside the kaffir lime to study.

  I guess it is nearly impossible to tell until they have fruits. The fruits of ichang papeda would have bumpy stripes in the vertical direction while kaffir lime have non-pattern bumps or wavy bumpy strips all over its fruits.

  I read several sources online about the history of ichang papeda, and some sources mentioned the use of ichang papeda fruits as lime substitute. Some other sources also claimed that ichang papeda in some rare occasion produced fruits that has the quality very close to lemon, isn't it true?

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 I have done some searching online and coukd not tell the difference in appearance bewteen kaffir lime and ichang papeda. I would appreciate if someone can show me a way to tell by looking at leaves or stem structure...

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Citrus General Discussion / Can meiwa kumquat be grown in USDA zone 13?
« on: August 14, 2019, 07:34:06 PM »

  I wonder if meiwa can be grown in zone 13. I still remember when I was a kid in my country (tropical region), I had never heard of the yellow kumquat fruits neither Nagami or Meiwa but a green round kumquat which has a very thin sour rind and sour pulp. I still remmeber that the pulp is orange and very sour, rind taste between bitter and sweet with spiciness and strong citrus fragrance. I think people picked them green on purpose just to preserve the sourness for a lime substitute.

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Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Variegated Thomasville Citrangequat
« on: June 10, 2019, 02:22:44 PM »
Of course, keep in mind that variegated cultivars may not have as much vigor, because they have less chlorophyll, and might not be able to grow as fast or recover from damage as easily.

I don't want to bust anyone's bubble, but I've never really understood what all the excitement is about when it comes to variegated cultivars. To me they look a bit sickly. Personally, I prefer the look of non-variegated, but that's just me.
But if you want to count variegated cultivars are rare, for a collector, I suppose that counts too.

Agree!

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They are available in the US...

  Please share the name of the place with us.

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   So far as I heard there were several type of seedless yuzu in Japan. Someone claimed that people in Europe had it but did not want to sell or share.

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