My Breadfruit

[Fruitguy]

Just planted my PR breadfruit this past weekend.  So far so good.  My previous attempt a few years ago succumbed to root rot during the month of may.  Go figure.  LOL

[murahilin]

Cool. Do you know the cultivar?

[TropicalFruitHunters]

What did you remove?  The space looks too clear!  The plant looks good though.  It will be interesting to see if it takes off now that it is in the ground.

[Fruitguy]

Cool. Do you know the cultivar?

You were there when I got it.  I thought YOU wrote down the name??!?!!    (The tag simply says "Pana Pan", which I believe means.... breadfruit.  If anyone can state otherwise, please speak up!  )

What did you remove?  The space looks too clear!  The plant looks good though.  It will be interesting to see if it takes off now that it is in the ground.

Nothing interesting.  There were lots of butterfly attracting plants there before, but I cut them way back.  They had been multiplying out of control.  Not to worry, I still get lots of butterflies, bees, and for the first time last year I saw a hummingbird.

[murahilin]

I had three different cultivars growing last year. If I knew you were interested in planting out breadfruit I would have given you one.

[Fruitguy]

NOW you tell me?   

[fruitlovers]

Warren, are you sure that is really breadfruit (Artocarpus altilis) and not breadnut (Artocarpus camansi)? Where in PR did you get it? Unfortunately a lot of the folks in PR don't seem to get that there is a BIG difference and call both of them breadfruit. But both are very different fruts. The leaves on your plant look to me like camansi. The good news is that camansi is easier to grow i think.
Oscar

[Ethan]

Pretty looking tree Warren hopefully it will go crazy for you, definitely an awesome ingredient to cook with. 

I'm sure Jay said he was going to write down the cultivar name for you.

-Ethan

[TropicalFruitHunters]

Sorry...some pulasan juice got on my notes and blurred the ink!   

[Fruitguy]

Warren, are you sure that is really breadfruit (Artocarpus altilis) and not breadnut (Artocarpus camansi)? Where in PR did you get it? Unfortunately a lot of the folks in PR don't seem to get that there is a BIG difference and call both of them breadfruit. But both are very different fruts. The leaves on your plant look to me like camansi. The good news is that camansi is easier to grow i think.
Oscar

The plant came from Eneida's Nursery.  It is grafted, and the tag clearly indicates A. altilis.  While they were not available on this past visit, in prior visits to Eneida's they had A. camansi as seedlings only.  Hopefully it will live long enough for me to find out!   

[Sleepdoc]

I just purchased a Breadfruit from Pine Island and planted it on Monday.  I know it will likely die when winter rolls around, but the tree just looked so cool I couldn't resist

Variety is Ma'afala

[HMHausman]

That's the problem with breadfuit here in Florida.  You can fruit them if we get another run of 5-7 years of no freezing temps.  Thats unlikely in the present cycle, but one can hope.  What are your plans for cold protection on these Warren and Clint?

Harry

[fruitlovers]

Warren, are you sure that is really breadfruit (Artocarpus altilis) and not breadnut (Artocarpus camansi)? Where in PR did you get it? Unfortunately a lot of the folks in PR don't seem to get that there is a BIG difference and call both of them breadfruit. But both are very different fruts. The leaves on your plant look to me like camansi. The good news is that camansi is easier to grow i think.
Oscar

The plant came from Eneida's Nursery.  It is grafted, and the tag clearly indicates A. altilis.  While they were not available on this past visit, in prior visits to Eneida's they had A. camansi as seedlings only.  Hopefully it will live long enough for me to find out!   

Breadfruit can get established in very hostile environments, as long as they are babied when small. This was one of the main points of one of the speakers at Breadfruit Festival here. Suggest to keep it constantly moist, mulched, and protected from wind. So lots of TLC till they get at least 4 feet tall.
Oscar

[Sleepdoc]

That's the problem with breadfuit here in Florida.  You can fruit them if we get another run of 5-7 years of no freezing temps.  Thats unlikely in the present cycle, but one can hope.  What are your plans for cold protection on these Warren and Clint?

Harry

Harry, 

I really have no cold protection plan .... I know there is a very, very high chance that it will not survive the winter.  But the tree just looked so cool I had to buy it anyway.  Very much an impulse buy, but hey, you never know right?




I was there at pine island really to pick up a Kaimana Lychee and a Sri Chompoo Longan.  Those two little tree's have a new home on the bank of my pond ...

[fruitlovers]

Very nice yard Sleepdoc! What distance did you plant those 2 lychees? I'm guessing from photo number 2 that they are way too close to one another. You don't want them to shade each other out. Any part of the tree that gets shaded will not produce fruits. I like to plant them 30 feet apart. Minimum would be 25 feet apart. As you probably saw from Harry's photos, lychees get to be large trees with a wide canopy.
Oscar

[Sleepdoc]

Very nice yard Sleepdoc! What distance did you plant those 2 lychees? I'm guessing from photo number 2 that they are way too close to one another. You don't want them to shade each other out. Any part of the tree that gets shaded will not produce fruits. I like to plant them 30 feet apart. Minimum would be 25 feet apart. As you probably saw from Harry's photos, lychees get to be large trees with a wide canopy.
Oscar

Thanks Oscar

Good eye on the spacing.  They are about 12 feet apart... Too close I agree.  But with the wife sequestering my trees to certain areas.... Well, let's just say a lot of my trees are "packed in"

[Fruitguy]

That's the problem with breadfuit here in Florida.  You can fruit them if we get another run of 5-7 years of no freezing temps.  Thats unlikely in the present cycle, but one can hope.  What are your plans for cold protection on these Warren and Clint?

Harry

There is (or at least was) a fruiting tree in Coral Gables.  Therefore, wind protection (as Oscar noted) and wrap plastic around 4 rebar poles should I be fortunate enough to have it survive until winter.

[fruitlovers]

There is (or at least was) a fruiting tree in Coral Gables.  Therefore, wind protection (as Oscar noted) and wrap plastic around 4 rebar poles should I be fortunate enough to have it survive until winter.

Don't see anything that would keep breadfruit from flourishing there, except for the sudden arctic blasts. They don't mind limestone soil, grow great in coral atolls, and you have high enough temperature and humidity to keep it happy.
Oscar

[Fruitguy]

Don't see anything that would keep breadfruit from flourishing there, except for the sudden arctic blasts. They don't mind limestone soil, grow great in coral atolls, and you have high enough temperature and humidity to keep it happy.
Oscar

I didn't take it in quick enough (in hindsight) before the temps dropped to the upper 40s (brrrr) for a few hours this winter and it nearly defoliated.  I had one expire a couple of years back in May/June and it was clear that the roots had rotted.  Perhaps a soil fungus?  Delayed effect of cold winter?  Anyway, rolling the dice again! 

[HMHausman]

Don't see anything that would keep breadfruit from flourishing there, except for the sudden arctic blasts. They don't mind limestone soil, grow great in coral atolls, and you have high enough temperature and humidity to keep it happy.
Oscar

Right........except for.  There is a reason that all these Caribbean transports that call S. FL home, aren't growing their beloved breadfruit here.  Its not from lack of trying.  They are gorgeous trees and  they get very large and very difficult to cover.  They die back very quickly at the first sign of any signifcant chill, nevermnd a full blown freeze.  So yes, if we dispensed with our normal winter, these would be quite easy to grow and everyone would have them.

Harry

[fruitlovers]

Don't see anything that would keep breadfruit from flourishing there, except for the sudden arctic blasts. They don't mind limestone soil, grow great in coral atolls, and you have high enough temperature and humidity to keep it happy.
Oscar

I didn't take it in quick enough (in hindsight) before the temps dropped to the upper 40s (brrrr) for a few hours this winter and it nearly defoliated.  I had one expire a couple of years back in May/June and it was clear that the roots had rotted.  Perhaps a soil fungus?  Delayed effect of cold winter?  Anyway, rolling the dice again! 

Breadfruit makes a great house plant. So why not overwinter it in a pot before planting it out in spring? Yes stressing them with cold when they are that tiny really stresses the plant out. It's like leaving your baby out in the cold a few nights and then expecting them to grow up to be normal adults? 
Oscar

[fruitlovers]

Don't see anything that would keep breadfruit from flourishing there, except for the sudden arctic blasts. They don't mind limestone soil, grow great in coral atolls, and you have high enough temperature and humidity to keep it happy.
Oscar

Right........except for.  There is a reason that all these Caribbean transports that call S. FL home, aren't growing their beloved breadfruit here.  Its not from lack of trying.  They are gorgeous trees and  they get very large and very difficult to cover.  They die back very quickly at the first sign of any signifcant chill, nevermnd a full blown freeze.  So yes, if we dispensed with our normal winter, these would be quite easy to grow and everyone would have them.

Harry

I've heard that quite a few of those Caribbean exports have grown breadfruit succesfully in Southern Florida. But they do protect their trees over winter! One method of protection never mentioned is the use of a soil heating cable. Personally that is what i would do in addition to the blankets, because long periods of cold soil is just as bad as a sudden freeze for a breadfruit. But probably this is much more of a problem in California than in Florida. Perhaps cold soil a serious problem in Central and northern Florida?
Oscar

[FloridaGreenMan]

Warren, are you sure that is really breadfruit (Artocarpus altilis) and not breadnut (Artocarpus camansi)? Where in PR did you get it? Unfortunately a lot of the folks in PR don't seem to get that there is a BIG difference and call both of them breadfruit. But both are very different fruts. The leaves on your plant look to me like camansi. The good news is that camansi is easier to grow i think.
Oscar

Oscar
I lived in Puerto Rico for years and seedless Breadfruit is always called "Panapen" or "Pana".  Seeded breadfruit is called "Pana de Pepitas". which means Breadfruit with seeds. I have never heard anyone call seeded breadfruit as "panapen".  This fruit is very popular all over the island and people know the difference.  Islanders mostly eat unseeded breadfruit and the unpopular seeded one is mostly fed to animals!

Warren, if it said "Panapen" on the label, I would bet that it is Artocarpus altilis but there is no 100% guarantee. I can ask the folks at Eneida for you!
NR     

       

[BluePalm]

Fruitguy, congrats on the impulse buy. They are beautiful trees. I was astounded at the beautiful towering ones when I visited Jamaica. I hope it survives!

[FloridaGreenMan]

Over the years there have been many isolated fruiting breadfruits all over the Miami area. With our huge Caribbean immigrant population, I have seen large breadfruit trees in yards throughout Dade and Broward counties but all it takes is a few nights of temps in the 40s to make these "cold weaklings" drop every leaf. As Harry mentioned, it takes a few years of mild winters which we have regularly gotten over the past 30 years. I wrote an article in the RFCI magazoine back in the early 90s about a friend of mine who fruited A. altilis outdoors in Kendall (a suburb of Miami) and not a particularly warm place. His tree grew to over 30 feet tall and I personally saw it loaded with large fruits. I will send you fotos later on since they were taken with a very ancient photography method called "film" and I have to scan them!  The fotos show Miami grown breadfruit from the yard of the legendary Bill Whitman. His trees produced plentiful breadfruit outdoors!       
I wish you the best with your "Panapen"

 

[murahilin]

Nice pics Noel.

The furthest North I've heard of a breadfruit fruiting was on Manalapan in Palm Beach County. Not sure if that tree is still alive. I'll have to find out.

Warren, we should start growth trials of all the breadfruit varieties we can get our hands on to find a more cold hardy variety. USDA in Hawaii has a bunch of cultivars and if we all request different budwood we could build up a massive collection. Who's in?

[Fruitguy]

Warren, if it said "Panapen" on the label, I would bet that it is Artocarpus altilis but there is no 100% guarantee. I can ask the folks at Eneida for you!
NR           

Your confirmation and the fact that the label itself said Artocarpus altilis leaves me feeling confident I got the one I want.  Thanks!

[Fruitguy]

Warren, we should start growth trials of all the breadfruit varieties we can get our hands on to find a more cold hardy variety. USDA in Hawaii has a bunch of cultivars and if we all request different budwood we could build up a massive collection. Who's in?

I'm in, but where did you intend to plant our breadfruit forest???

[murahilin]

I'm in, but where did you intend to plant our breadfruit forest???

We will figure that out later... Right now we just focus on acquiring breadfruit.

Anyone have a few spare acres they are willing to loan out to the largest selection of breadfruit cultivars ever grown in South Florida?

[Fruitguy]

Fruitguy, congrats on the impulse buy. They are beautiful trees. I was astounded at the beautiful towering ones when I visited Jamaica. I hope it survives!

Thanks BluePalm, but I think it was Sleepdoc that mention the impulse buy (and he got the named variety!).  Truth be told, mine was somewhat of an impulse buy as well, though I did hope to find grafted breadfruit available at Eneida's.  It probably would be a lot larger now if it didn't take the Post Office a full week to send my "Priority" box to Miami.  Apparently shipping Priority means nothing if your box is too big to fit on some Postman's cart somewhere, which is how my local guy explained how my box took a week from PR when others in much more distant locations (and smaller boxes) got their's in 3 days on average.  So the lesson learned is either ship Express Mail or choose the absolutely smallest box possible.  I had the larger box because I had some 4 foot nutmeg trees that I sent back.  Those were even bent in the box, but knowing what I know now, I will cut them back next time.  They appeared to survive the week of darkness but never put out a flush and slowly (painstaking to watch) died back to nothing.

I really have no cold protection plan .... I know there is a very, very high chance that it will not survive the winter.  But the tree just looked so cool I had to buy it anyway.  Very much an impulse buy, but hey, you never know right?

[fruitlovers]

Warren, are you sure that is really breadfruit (Artocarpus altilis) and not breadnut (Artocarpus camansi)? Where in PR did you get it? Unfortunately a lot of the folks in PR don't seem to get that there is a BIG difference and call both of them breadfruit. But both are very different fruts. The leaves on your plant look to me like camansi. The good news is that camansi is easier to grow i think.
Oscar

Oscar
I lived in Puerto Rico for years and seedless Breadfruit is always called "Panapen" or "Pana".  Seeded breadfruit is called "Pana de Pepitas". which means Breadfruit with seeds. I have never heard anyone call seeded breadfruit as "panapen".  This fruit is very popular all over the island and people know the difference.  Islanders mostly eat unseeded breadfruit and the unpopular seeded one is mostly fed to animals!

Warren, if it said "Panapen" on the label, I would bet that it is Artocarpus altilis but there is no 100% guarantee. I can ask the folks at Eneida for you!
NR     

     

Problem is that Puerto Ricans often refer to both of these fruits simply as "pana". Also the full common name in Puerto Rico is confusing. Panapen means breadfruit with seed. But the camansi is not a breadfruit with seed, it is a totally different fruit. Here we do have breadfruit with seeds, that is Artocarpus altilis that have some seeds in them. It is better to call the camansi by that name "camansi". That is the name used here by Filipinos for that fruit. I noticed this same confusion even in articles in CRFG Fruit Gardener magazine. This lady Bev who did the 3 part article on PR, in her first article she has a photo of an immature fruit hanging on the tree which she calls a breadfruit, and has it labeled as A. altilis, but that photo was clearly A. camansi. I meant to write in to point out that error, but never got around to it. But i noticed that nobody else picked up on that big mistake either.
The Jardines Eneida nursery is a good nursery and they probably have the plant Warren got labeled correctly. Most breadfruit types don't have that type of leaf he showed, very narrow and thin, that is usually indicates it is camansi. But some very few breadfruit types have immature leaves that look like that. If that plant's leaves get wider and less indented as it matures then can be sure it is breadfruit. if not it is a camansi.
So what is the big difference? Breadfruit has a lot of 100% edible pulp inside. The camansi is almost 100% seed inside when it is mature. If you want to eat some pulp you have to pick it very immature. Only Filipino people bother to eat camansi here.
You can see a photo comparing camansi on left and breadfruit on right:

Unfortunately don't have a photo comparing the difference in shape of the leaves of the two species right now or you could see what i mean.
Oscar

[fruitlovers]

Problem is that Puerto Ricans often refer to both of these fruits simply as "pana". Also the full common name in Puerto Rico is confusing. Panapen means breadfruit with seed. But the camansi is not a breadfruit with seed, it is a totally different fruit. Here we do have breadfruit with seeds, that is Artocarpus altilis that have some seeds in them. It is better to call the camansi by that name "camansi". That is the name used here by Filipinos for that fruit. I noticed this same confusion even in articles in CRFG Fruit Gardener magazine. This lady Bev who did the 3 part article on PR, in her first article she has a photo of an immature fruit hanging on the tree which she calls a breadfruit, and has it labeled as A. altilis, but that photo was clearly A. camansi. I meant to write in to point out that error, but never got around to it. But i noticed that nobody else picked up on that big mistake either.
The Jardines Eneida nursery is a good nursery and they probably have the plant Warren got labeled correctly. Most breadfruit types don't have that type of leaf he showed, very narrow and thin, that is usually indicates it is camansi. But some very few breadfruit types have immature leaves that look like that. If that plant's leaves get wider and less indented as it matures then can be sure it is breadfruit. if not it is a camansi.
So what is the big difference? Breadfruit has a lot of 100% edible pulp inside. The camansi is almost 100% seed inside when it is mature. If you want to eat some pulp you have to pick it very immature. Only Filipino people bother to eat camansi here.
You can see a photo comparing camansi on left and breadfruit on right:

Unfortunately don't have a photo comparing the difference in shape of the leaves of the two species right now or you could see what i mean.
Oscar

[murahilin]

On a somewhat unrelated note, A. camansi is known as chataigne in Trinidad.

Also, I read that A. altilis is a natural cross between A. camansi and A. mariannensis. It was in one of Dr. Ragone's powerpoint presentations that are available online.

[fruitlovers]

On a somewhat unrelated note, A. camansi is known as chataigne in Trinidad.

Also, I read that A. altilis is a natural cross between A. camansi and A. mariannensis. It was in one of Dr. Ragone's powerpoint presentations that are available online.

Close, but not quite correct. The A. camansi is considered to be the main ancient ancestor of the breadfruit. In the Micronesian islands some breadfruits also have ancestry of A. mariannensis.
Oscar

[FloridaGreenMan]

Warren, are you sure that is really breadfruit (Artocarpus altilis) and not breadnut (Artocarpus camansi)? Where in PR did you get it? Unfortunately a lot of the folks in PR don't seem to get that there is a BIG difference and call both of them breadfruit. But both are very different fruts. The leaves on your plant look to me like camansi. The good news is that camansi is easier to grow i think.
Oscar

Oscar
I lived in Puerto Rico for years and seedless Breadfruit is always called "Panapen" or "Pana".  Seeded breadfruit is called "Pana de Pepitas". which means Breadfruit with seeds. I have never heard anyone call seeded breadfruit as "panapen".  This fruit is very popular all over the island and people know the difference.  Islanders mostly eat unseeded breadfruit and the unpopular seeded one is mostly fed to animals!

Warren, if it said "Panapen" on the label, I would bet that it is Artocarpus altilis but there is no 100% guarantee. I can ask the folks at Eneida for you!
NR     

     

Problem is that Puerto Ricans often refer to both of these fruits simply as "pana". Also the full common name in Puerto Rico is confusing. Panapen means breadfruit with seed. But the camansi is not a breadfruit with seed, it is a totally different fruit. Here we do have breadfruit with seeds, that is Artocarpus altilis that have some seeds in them. It is better to call the camansi by that name "camansi". That is the name used here by Filipinos for that fruit. I noticed this same confusion even in articles in CRFG Fruit Gardener magazine. This lady Bev who did the 3 part article on PR, in her first article she has a photo of an immature fruit hanging on the tree which she calls a breadfruit, and has it labeled as A. altilis, but that photo was clearly A. camansi. I meant to write in to point out that error, but never got around to it. But i noticed that nobody else picked up on that big mistake either.
The Jardines Eneida nursery is a good nursery and they probably have the plant Warren got labeled correctly. Most breadfruit types don't have that type of leaf he showed, very narrow and thin, that is usually indicates it is camansi. But some very few breadfruit types have immature leaves that look like that. If that plant's leaves get wider and less indented as it matures then can be sure it is breadfruit. if not it is a camansi.
So what is the big difference? Breadfruit has a lot of 100% edible pulp inside. The camansi is almost 100% seed inside when it is mature. If you want to eat some pulp you have to pick it very immature. Only Filipino people bother to eat camansi here.
You can see a photo comparing camansi on left and breadfruit on right:

Unfortunately don't have a photo comparing the difference in shape of the leaves of the two species right now or you could see what i mean.
Oscar

Oscar
I totally disagree that "panapen" means seeded breadfruit. How many years did you live in PR?  Panapen means the unseeded breadfruit (A.altilis) to Boricuas (PR islanders).  Pana de Pepitas is the SEEDED type.  Not sure where you are getting your information but it's wrong.
FGM   

     

[fruitlovers]

Sorry, that is what i meant. Pana de pepitas is what i meant. That means seeded breadfruit.  Gist of what i was saying is exactly the same. The camansi is NOT a seeded breadfruit. There is also a confusion in english when camansi is called breadnut, which can also refer to another fruit Brosiminum alicastrum. BTW, i never lived in PR. Did visit there for a couple of weeks, that is all.
Breadfruit is a relatively new fruit to PR and Caribbean area. Only few hundred years and was introduced from Tahiti. Breadfruit has been bread, grown and eaten here for  millenia.
Oscar