Best tasting and most reliable Mangos for Southern California

[palmcity]

Just my observations over the years...
I believe Temperature plays a major role in the year to year fluctuation of powdery mildew seen on my trees. (Humidity, sunlight,air flow, humidity, etc. also factor in spore growth).

Unfortunately I see little to no studies on mango trees powdery mildew growth vs. temperature, but other plants have received some studies and IMO the hawthorne study closely resembles my location yearly temperature vs. powdery mildew growth over the past many years.

I Graph shows peaking growth rate at about 23C (73.4F) and rapidly dropping when temperatures hit 27C (80.6F) and stopping almost Completely at 29C (84.2F)...

So... Hope for some hot 84.2F (29C) weather during flower bloom and powdery mildew should be far less if my guess is correct... This is also why I think most of the 2nd and 3rd blooms are more successful in setting mango crops in south florida as usually the temperature is much warmer (also why I believe Miami has less of a powdery mildew problem than in Martin County, Fl where I live and it is cooler here and hotter in Miami).

Go to Figure 2 in below site
https://bsppjournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1046/j.1365-3059.2000.00520.x

Suggestions:::
If able to regulate temperature between 85 and 90F During bloom and till fruit set if facilities allow, might save some expense on fungicides but will probably cost more on electricity & gas... Just a thought. Perhaps others with green houses have tried these temps during bloom to decrease/stop powdery mildew??? 

I'll be growing mango in a warm dry greenhouse soon. Do you think there will be PM or other fungal issues even with no rain? The only other fruit with PM is grapes. Nothing else on a wide variety of fruits. I can get to 90-100F if wanted even on most days in winter. There will be humidity at night but not when it's warm and of course no rain.

My guess... Do not exceed 95 F as most fruiting plants begin to have problems growing upward of this temp. except dates/cacti etc. Probably 84.2 to 90F would be the better experiment temperature to slow or stop powdery mildew in green house during bloom to fruit set.

Just curious if adjusted ambient temperature could significantly slow/stop powdery mildew regardless of humidity/air flow/ sunlight hitting the leaves/ etc. (Ex.Often the leaf temperature will be 95F when sunshine hits the leaf even if ambient temperature is far less like 90F... so if 95F ambient then leaf temp. might be 100F in sunlight etc.)

With my limited reading, it is obvious that many fruiting plants have different powdery mildew spores and/or specific survival temperature ranges for the powdery mildew and the temperatures needed to stop powdery mildew growth would be higher than 84.2F.

[simon_grow]

I harvested a bunch of CAC mangos this year and they were all good but not excellent. I’m removing it from the top tier list even though one individual fruit I ate a couple years ago was super amazing. I still recommend planting CAC because it is Polyembryonic and makes a good rootstock with good quality fruit but it’s inconsistent in eating quality and more often than not, it’s more of like a cross between Kent and NDM. CAC is also great for using as a rootstock because it requires more stimulus to fruit.

On another topic, Venus has been one of my best producers of large and consistently excellent quality fruit. The fruit are between 1-2 lbs, colorful with a medium sized seed, super juicy and the floral inflorescence is resistant to disease. Venus is a vigorous grower and even with the barge size fruit, it can produce fruit in clusters.

The Venus nubbins were super concentrated in flavor and there were very few nubbins compared to Sweet Tart. This may indicate that the Venus Blooms may be more resistant to fungal diseases or perhaps the blooms have a wider acceptable temperature range for pollination.

The flavor profile of Venus is a very sweet tropical mango base flavor with good levels of Sweet Tart like Indochinese spice. There is just enough acid balance to make this a perfectly balanced mango in terms of sweet and tart. This mango is super juicy and mostly fiberless. Although some people may consider Venus as a toned down version of Sweet Tart, I feel that Venus can hold its own and for some people that may not like ultra sweet fruit, they may prefer Venus over Sweet Tart. I really love Sweet Tart but man, my Venus the last several years have been phenomenal and I rank it right up there with Sweet Tart, E4, Lemon Zest, Peach Cobbler, Pina Colada, Coconut Cream and Pineapple Pleasure.

For everyone growing in SoCal, get yourself a Venus!







Simon

[Hermitian]

I recommend Valencia Pride.

[jtnguyen333]

Has anyone try to grow / taste Golden Lady?  I believe only Wong farm near palm desert sells this variety?

[duren]

Has anyone try to grow ST Mauii, Bombay and Dupuis Saigon?

[simon_grow]

VP is a good mango that I won’t turn down and it grows wonderfully here but I wouldn’t put it on my top tier list although many will disagree with me.

I haven’t tried to grow Golden Lady so I don’t know how well it will do here.

ST Maui grows and fruits fine here, Bombay has production issues at some locations and not others.

Dupuis Saigon does fine for me at my location, it gets some Powdery Mildew like NDM but it still hold some fruit to maturity. The fruit quality can be quite good.

Simon

[MarktLee]

My orange sherbet, Thom Pi Khan and harvest moon are holding thumbnail size fruit. I'm really thinning the fruit, they should grow nice through the summer.

[love_Tropic]

Can anyone having success growing , please post Top 3 in each of the Flavor for "Best tasting and most reliable" to Grow in SoCal? Updated the flavor from tropicalacresfarms.com site may not be 100% for SoCal.

Classic - Sindhri, Kent , Honey Kiss,
Coconut - Coconut Cream
Indochinese -
Indochinese hybrid - Sweet Tart
Indian/West Indian -
Indian Alphonso - Kesar,
Thai - NDM

[Oolie]

Aloha is a classic flavored fruit, and does very well. Oro is something difficult to categorize, it's close to Julie, but without resin, just coconut notes and flavor similar to White Sapote. It does great.

For the resin Oro lacks, Val-Carrie more than makes up for it. The resin is similar to Kesar, and the tree is a very upright grower.

I have another seedling that performs well, but the blooms are susceptible to disease. The tree is extremely vigorous, but with a citrus smell. It may hold fruit this year.

Reliable ones are hard to find, as too much production can sap vigor.

[Johnny Eat Fruit]

I will give you my experience based on reliability and Fruit quality here in California.

Note: Trees should be at least five years old with strong rootstock and sandy loam soil, not clay for best growth.

Angie:  This precocious mango produces very well at my location and tastes wonderful. I love this mango.

Val-Carrie:  I am impressed with the consistency and production of this mango in SoCal. (See my attached photo from late June, much young fruit)

Sweet Tart: Patience is a virtue with this variety. At seven years my tree is loaded in 2023 (See Photo)   

Mallika:  I liked the fruit from 2022 and again it is productive, This is grafted onto the same tree as the Val-Carrie. (see photo)

Fruit Punch:  My three-year-old graft has numerous fruit sets in 2023. I need more time for evaluation but so far it's looking good.

Guava: Also looking good with a nice fruit set.

Seacrest:  My three-year-old graft is holding a number of fruit. We will see on this one. Need more time.

Here are the duds at my location:

Coconut Cream:  My seven-year-old tree has no fruit. Who knows maybe at 10 years it might start producing. The tree does grow very well though.

Nam Doc Mai:  This tree blooms constantly but has mediocre fruit quality, avoid in my opinion.

Johnny



Val-Carrie and Mallika Mango Tree (6-29-23)




Sweet Tart Mango Tree in Early Summer

[palmcity]

I harvested a bunch of CAC mangos this year and they were all good but not excellent. I’m removing it from the top tier list even though one individual fruit I ate a couple years ago was super amazing.
Simon

There are a few mangos that IMO taste better in the refrigerator. IMO CAC is definitely one of them. Bovine421 mentioned that Cac left in the refrigerator almost to dehydrating/wrinkling state tasted to him like Cola and he then offered it to his wife as he did not believe the taste perception he received from this old refrigerated CAC... But, it tasted like Cola to his wife also....

I just replicated in my refrigerator this feat and yes it tasted like sweet, non seltzered, non acidic Cola. The indochinese zing was gone... lol (I actually get tired of too many indochinese mango choices). I now prefer my Cac being in the frig for a few days.  It was cut in half and placed open air in the refrigerator to dehydrate/change faster...

So it probably got converted to the milder flavoring like many fruits tasting pineapple will convert to a milder coconut taste with time in the refrigerator...

Just a possibility as to why years ago you really liked that one Cac so much... Also a new test to perform lol...

[Elijah]

This thread is so valuable for the new members like me who live in SoCal. Thank you for the posts.
Please keep update with any changes.
So far, it looks like Sweet Tart, Val Carrie, Venus, and Maha are well resistant to disease, consistently productive and doing well here. Can someone add or remove more varieties doing well here ?

[simon_grow]

I ate quite a few CAC this year and I have to bump it back up a notch. I have tried CAC when it’s refrigerated. I don’t wait until it’s wrinkled but just put it into the fridge for several hours to chill and this years fruit were excellent with great sugar levels and a great subacid component with just the mildest indochinese hint to add a bit of complexity. The slight indochinese is right next to the skin. With the disease resistance, vigorous growth, great size fruit, great flavor and it being Polyembryonic, I have to put this back into the top tier category even though it isn’t a flavor bomb.

Elijah, I would add Cotton Candy, Fruit Punch, Pina Colada seedling, CAC, Pineapple Pleasure, Angie, E4, M4 and I’ll probably remember a few more later. My yard gets about the minimum heat required to mature mangos and I get slight frost almost every year and have a crazy resistant powdery mildew strain and these varieties all produced for me.

Remember that each yard and microclimate is different and even if you live just a few blocks away from me, the performance of each variety could vary dramatically.

Simon

[simon_grow]

Reminder that after about twenty years of experimenting with mangos in SoCal that the takeaway is to get your trees as large as possible in the early years. This is accomplished by planting a bunch of random seedlings and selecting for the ones with the most vigorous growth. Ideally, these seedlings are Polyembryonic so there (may?)be no need to graft.

Alternatively, purchase seedling rootstocks from Home Depot or another nursery. Maximize growth by fertilizing especially before and during the heat of Summer when the majority of our growing season is in SoCal.

The third way which could give you the fastest growth based on my experiments is to use the California Super Mango Rootstock technique by innarching 1+ extra rootstocks to a Polyembryonic seedling. This will require the most work but the double or triple rootstock trees will grow approximately 30-50% faster but results could vary depending on the vigor of the innarched seedlings.

Simon

https://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=20852.0

[Elijah]

Use the California Super Mango Rootstock technique by innarching 1+ extra rootstocks to a Polyembryonic seedling. This will require the most work but the double or triple rootstock trees will grow approximately 30-50% faster but results could vary depending on the vigor of the innarched seedlings.

Simon

https://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=20852.0

Thank you for sharing your insight. Could you explain "innarching 1+ extra rootstocks to a Polyembryonic seedling" more, please?  I cannot picture it.

[Oolie]

By planting the poly seed of the desired variety you're skipping the flowering which deprives the tree of energy for the first few years in the hopes it gets established before the prolonged flowering period robs the tree of vigor each year. The goal of inarching is to get the tree more vigor to help it establish more readily.
You add roots to the poly seedling by planting a second mango seed near enough the trunk that you can bend the trunk of the additional sapling close to the poly seedling and by making an opening in the bark of the poly tree, you decapitate the sapling and insert the growing tip under the bark so that the cambium of the sapling is in contact with the cambium of the poly seedling.
Easy method is to slice the sapling like you were to saddle graft it, and slip it under the incision of the bark of the poly seedling where the incision is the shape of an inverted "T".
You can choose any shape which allows the cambium of the two to heal together, and then remove the tip of the sapling when healed.

[palingkecil]

Has anyone try to grow / taste Golden Lady?  I believe only Wong farm near palm desert sells this variety?

I bought a  Golden Lady tree from Wong Farm in 2019. According to them, it grafted on their own rootstock which they said proven to be superior than turpentine or manila rootstock.
It was not the case in my backyard. Despite of the extra care, this tree did not grow much in my backyard, kept struggling until it just died last year.
Maybe it depends on each person's yard and position of each tree. Weirdly in my yard, Florida turpentine rootstock does better than any other rootstocks including Manila and 'California superior rootstocks' I bought from local So-Cal nurseries.
The best grower and most reliable mango in my yard is Sugarloaf on turpentine rootstock. I bought it on eBay from a backyard grower in Florida.
Almost neglected, with just automatic drip system, the Sugarloaf grows beautifully and always gives me full size flawless fruits since the year I bought it. I thin it aggressively and only left 2-3 fruits each year since the tree is only 5 ft tall now from a 3 gallon on 2020.
OS on turpentine is super vigorous and productive, but the PM always heavy on this tree. OS fruit is delicious, but because of the PM, most fruitlets won't make it to maturity.

[gozp]

Has anyone try to grow / taste Golden Lady?  I believe only Wong farm near palm desert sells this variety?

I bought a  Golden Lady tree from Wong Farm in 2019. According to them, it grafted on their own rootstock which they said proven to be superior than turpentine or manila rootstock.
It was not the case in my backyard. Despite of the extra care, this tree did not grow much in my backyard, kept struggling until it just died last year.
Maybe it depends on each person's yard and position of each tree. Weirdly in my yard, Florida turpentine rootstock does better than any other rootstocks including Manila and 'California superior rootstocks' I bought from local So-Cal nurseries.
The best grower and most reliable mango in my yard is Sugarloaf on turpentine rootstock. I bought it on eBay from a backyard grower in Florida.
Almost neglected, with just automatic drip system, the Sugarloaf grows beautifully and always gives me full size flawless fruits since the year I bought it. I thin it aggressively and only left 2-3 fruits each year since the tree is only 5 ft tall now from a 3 gallon on 2020.
OS on turpentine is super vigorous and productive, but the PM always heavy on this tree. OS fruit is delicious, but because of the PM, most fruitlets won't make it to maturity.

post photos of your trees.

[Johnny Eat Fruit]

"Almost neglected, with just automatic drip system, the Sugarloaf grows beautifully and always gives me full size flawless fruits since the year I bought it. I thin it aggressively and only left 2-3 fruits each year since the tree is only 5 ft tall now from a 3 gallon on 2020."  By Palingkecil

Interesting my Sugarloaf mango tree on Turpentine in greenhouse conditions has not grown at all here in Socal. After over one year in the greenhouse, the tree is still only 27" tall. (See Photo)

Perhaps I have a dud, Low vigor with little growth. Would be nice for others that have Sugarloaf to post.  A wide-angle photo would be nice so we can actually see and compare. Let's see your flawless Sugerloaft fruits Palingkecil.

Johnny



Sugarloaf Mango Tree on Turpentine in Socal

[mbmango]

I had a Sugarloaf graft (Alex 2020) on an in-ground Ataulfo seedling rootstock and it was much less vigorous than M4 and Seacrest on the same roots.  This winter was apparently too much for it though, and the whole branch died back past the graft.  No other dieback on the other 2 varieties.

I have 1 remaining graft on a backup potted seedling, which hasn't grown much either since 2020.  I've tried to baby that thing by  bringing it in my office over the first winter and putting it in a cold frame the next, but it only gives 1 or 2 weak pushes a year.

[Elijah]

By planting the poly seed of the desired variety you're skipping the flowering which deprives the tree of energy for the first few years in the hopes it gets established before the prolonged flowering period robs the tree of vigor each year. The goal of inarching is to get the tree more vigor to help it establish more readily.
You add roots to the poly seedling by planting a second mango seed near enough the trunk that you can bend the trunk of the additional sapling close to the poly seedling and by making an opening in the bark of the poly tree, you decapitate the sapling and insert the growing tip under the bark so that the cambium of the sapling is in contact with the cambium of the poly seedling.
Easy method is to slice the sapling like you were to saddle graft it, and slip it under the incision of the bark of the poly seedling where the incision is the shape of an inverted "T".
You can choose any shape which allows the cambium of the two to heal together, and then remove the tip of the sapling when healed.

wow I didn't know such thing. Thank you for explaining well.

[palingkecil]

"Almost neglected, with just automatic drip system, the Sugarloaf grows beautifully and always gives me full size flawless fruits since the year I bought it. I thin it aggressively and only left 2-3 fruits each year since the tree is only 5 ft tall now from a 3 gallon on 2020."  By Palingkecil

Interesting my Sugarloaf mango tree on Turpentine in greenhouse conditions has not grown at all here in Socal. After over one year in the greenhouse, the tree is still only 27" tall. (See Photo)

Perhaps I have a dud, Low vigor with little growth. Would be nice for others that have Sugarloaf to post.  A wide-angle photo would be nice so we can actually see and compare. Let's see your flawless Sugerloaft fruits Palingkecil.

Johnny



Sugarloaf Mango Tree on Turpentine in Socal

I apologize for the quality of my pictures, my movements are very limited now since I am still recovering from surgery. I did not neglect my trees on purpose, but because I had to be on bed rest for about 7-8 months although I still managed to turn the drip system on and off depends on the rain forecast last year and this year.
I have around 15 mango trees, and only 2 are on Manila rootstock now, and those 2 seem really struggling. Some are seedlings, which grow fine but none of my seedlings have flowers in the 4th year.

My Sugarloaf lost 2 of it's big branches due to the strong wind last winter, I usually protect my trees before the storm, but I was in bed rest since last fall. The 2 circles are where the big branches broke because of the wind.
Last week I took off most of the fruits from the Sugarloaf and left 3 only. They are about the size of my thumb now.
Sugarloaf:







This is my Orange Sherbet:
Unfortunately all the fruit dropped because of the heavy PM during the wet spring this year.






I met a friend from a So-Cal mango grower in facebook, he lives about 3 miles away from me. according to him, his mango trees on turpentine are also grow better and more productive than the ones on Manila or Kent rootstocks.
One thing we do in common, we put about 6" mulch all over our yard. Maybe that is what makes the difference for the turpentine rootstock?
Also, annonas does not do well in my yard, I dug and gave away my annonas because they grow too slow and always drop their fruits before maturity. So the kind of soil that annona hates seems to do turpentine rootstock well.

[love_Tropic]

can anyone suggent good online or loca store for val-Carrie and Venus mango trees?

[Oolie]

Both are mono, nurseries don't want to get a bad name selling trees unlikely to do well.

Just plant a seed and graft when it's big enough.

[Kankan]

Valencia Pride and keow savory does well for me.  Coconuts cream died and lemon zest died for me.  I live near the coast and we don’t get too hot where i live.

Coconut Cream died on me as well....San Diego County