The Tropical Fruit Forum
Temperate Fruit & Orchards => Temperate Fruit Discussion => Topic started by: darkcoolboo on February 20, 2015, 12:49:37 AM
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Sorry guys, had to start it! :P
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Sorry guys, had to start it! :P
I've got 3 varieties, coffee cake, chocolate, and fuyu. All small trees in the same hole, 12 inches apart in a triangle. Not sure how this is going to work out because it's only been a year and they are slow to root in.
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Have a fuyu. They are very slow growing the two years i have them but they did give me fruit the second year in ground. I was told that they will take off in the third year in ground so we will see this year. I will probably graft other varieties on it at some point
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I have fuyu with tamopan and honan road grafts.
Tamopan is a large fruit that looks like a hamburger. Astringent though.
I never ate a fruit off the tree. The rodents always get them.
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I have both Asian and American growing in my orchard. The natives are pretty young but I have eaten a few fruits from them - Meader, Prok and Morris Burton (best flavor so far). The Meader seems to be grafted onto some sort of dwarfing rootstock because I never have to prune it and it naturally grows in a perfect lollipop shape about 6-8 feet tall. The only complaint I have about it is that the fruit often has black streaks in the flesh. I've been told that this is normal and not damage or some sort of disease. For Asians I have two Fuyu's, one older and one younger, both produce fruit and some years they produce a lot of fruit. They struggled a bit with last winter's super cold weather so I worry that I may lose them this year (it was 3 degrees this morning and we have had many days where the daytime high wasn't above freezing).
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I have fuyu with tamopan and honan road grafts.
Tamopan is a large fruit that looks like a hamburger. Astringent though.
I never ate a fruit off the tree. The rodents always get them.
astringent is not a bad thing at all. I believe they have a richer flavor than non-astringent varieties, but you have to wait until fully ripe to eat them.
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http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/ornamentals/natives/DIOSPYROSTEXANA.HTM (http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/ornamentals/natives/DIOSPYROSTEXANA.HTM)
(http://s8.postimg.cc/8ubd9h95t/10365413_10203414654239163_4982082670824550457_o.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/8ubd9h95t/)
(http://s8.postimg.cc/56vm3f0yp/10387169_10203557370526981_2108094738870905580_o.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/56vm3f0yp/)
(http://s8.postimg.cc/c2kg09ktd/10469305_10203414651199087_1991772341511785537_o.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/c2kg09ktd/)
(http://s8.postimg.cc/5m6vwfmw1/10496087_10203812515025434_3605533433615578977_o.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/5m6vwfmw1/)
(http://s8.postimg.cc/zcu0i77vl/10547012_10203716494064970_1920669201200514676_o.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/zcu0i77vl/)
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astringent is not a bad thing at all. I believe they have a richer flavor than non-astringent varieties, but you have to wait until fully ripe to eat them.
I found that freezing them solid overnight and defrosting them and eating really cold totally eliminated the astringency.
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Fuyu is on my wishlist! I absolutely lurve persimmon, especially the round & flat non-astringent Asian varieties.
I am yet to figure out what variety is the poor dying persimmon tree in the shady part of my yard. Got to move it and hope it survives.
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I did a bit of research and found that 'Suruga' is the sweetest non-astringent persimmon. 'Kyung San Ban Si ' is a cold - tolerant tomato flat shaped astringent persimmon, while 'Giombo' is a conical heat tolerant astringent persimmon. Both persimmons have rated higher than Hachiya (which is pretty good on its own right) on GardenWeb. If I had to choose, I would grow Suruga and Giombo or only Giombo. If Suruga is grown by itself it is no male and seedless. Giombo is debated whether to have males, but when grown by itself, it has no seeds. If you grow both Suruga and Giombo there is a chance of seeded Suruga and seedless Giombo. Would you recommend seeded persimmons over seedless?
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astringent is not a bad thing at all. I believe they have a richer flavor than non-astringent varieties, but you have to wait until fully ripe to eat them.
I found that freezing them solid overnight and defrosting them and eating really cold totally eliminated the astringency.
A friend told me this and I finally tried it a few months ago but it's still astringent to me. I tried freezing overnight and also for several days. I didn't try eating them very cold since I can't taste cold foods very well. Counter-ripened persimmon has much better aroma and taste.
Which astringent persimmon tastes better or are they the same?
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I love Texas Persimmon and eat them when i find the trees, but as for the orange varieties i have only eaten one and it was unkown name. That one to me was a little to falvorless for me to enjoy. i hope to find more that are as uniquely sweet as Texas persimmon.
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How does princess taste? I got some seeds from crfg.
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I have an Izu Persimmon that I got shipped from a Florida nursery early last year. It grew like crazy all through the summer with our heat, I was very impressed. It bloomed like crazy in the spring and set about a dozen fruit. When summer hit, it dropped all the fruit but one. But because it is only a 3 ft tree right now, I went ahead and culled it because I wanted the tree to focus on growth. I like how it grows and takes the heat, and I don't have a lot of room where it is at, so this one is a naturally small tree, which is why I chose it. The taste should be similar, maybe slightly sweeter, than a Fuyu which I like very much.
Has not leafed out yet this year, but it has a huge amount of swollen buds. Based on how fast it grew last year, I am hoping to have a couple of persimmons in September!
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Suruga is my favorite followed by the "chocolate persimmon."
I keep mine under 6 feet. The fruit starts tasting bland if the tree gets too tall. Shorter the better.
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Just picked up some persimmon trees. Ended up getting:
tamopan
saijo
gionbo
sheng
korean
hachiya
I will report back in a few years to see if any of them fruit well here in south FL. I also have hudson (south florida) and tanenashi.
Still on the lookout for triumph and winterset
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they're all grafted onto the native persimmon rootstock right?
I hear they're really tolerant of wet feet....
damn I need to start planting these...I have a wet spot for them.
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they're all grafted onto the native persimmon rootstock right?
I hear they're really tolerant of wet feet....
damn I need to start planting these...I have a wet spot for them.
Yeah, grafted onto american persimmon
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they're all grafted onto the native persimmon rootstock right?
I hear they're really tolerant of wet feet....
damn I need to start planting these...I have a wet spot for them.
Yeah, grafted onto american persimmon
ok, I need to plant out about 50-100 trees this year.
probably will get some of the "hudson", and "Tanenashi"
and whatever other astringent types I can find...maybe "Hachiya"
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definitely get a triumph if you can find one.
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I am still looking for a chocolate here in FL, if anyone knows where to get one..... I have two Fuyu's that I am hoping will fruit this year. No buds yet but we are still cooler in C FL than you guys down south.
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i bought some Sharon persimmons that were grown in Israel, they are very nice but not necessarily anything better than a good fuyu from Cali, I'm interested in all of these other varieties
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I just noticed flowers on my sheng and giombo. No flowers on my saijo or suruga this year but they are still small.
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Nice! I just got gionbo and sheng and planted them out recently. Sheng was the first to break dormancy out of 6
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I bought a 'Fuyu' Persimmon at my local Lowe's for $35.
(http://i57.tinypic.com/6j229w.jpg)
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I picked up some dehydrated, unsulphured, unsweetened persimmon at Trader Joe's the other day. The fruit is from California per the package. Anyone know what cultivar they may be using?
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I would guess hachiya
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I would guess hachiya
Yes, most likely correct.
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Persimmons here in FL do well. I have not had any pest issues. They are slow growing however. I have had two Fuyu in the ground for a couple years now and they have grown a total of about a foot and a half. But I never have any problems with leaves or anything like that. They are flushed out now with more on the way it looks like, just very slow to get size. I have a chocolate and coffee cake on the way to replace a pair of under-performing apples in my flower garden(same area as my fuyus). Looking forward to having them. Cant wait to see some fruit off any of them.
I have a Texas persimmon in a pot grown out from a seed.(I am horrible at growing seeds for some reason.) I don't know if its truly a persimmon or not. I have an arid spot near my driveway it will go to replace some useless pear trees.
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http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diospyros_texana (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diospyros_texana)
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It is are from the seeds I got from you Ed. Crap, now I need more seeds to germinate to hopefully get a male and female.
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i thought that i liked persimmons until I started growing Fuyu. I really like that you can eat them hard or wait until they get soft. I have a saijo that I understand is one of the better tasting astringents but after three years it is not producing like it should. For some unknown reason the fruit just drop at the size of a quarter. I can't figure out what is happening to it but suspect that too much rain may be the cause. Anyone else have this problem with the saijo?
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My almost-dying persimmon tree got relocated this spring and is setting 15+ fruits by now. it's still a tiny tree, no taller than 5 feet, should I thin the fruits?
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I have a high water table here at my house, and I planted some persimmons to see how they would grow.
so far they have been loving it.
I've not really had to irrigate them, and I've even got some fruits setting on my Hachiya, and Tanenashi...Saijo did not flower.
I need to plant more! I think I'll be getting some soon.
I'm also going to plant more Che, grafted onto Osage orange rootstock....probably will intercrop with the persimmons...and mulberries.
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I have a high water table here at my house, and I planted some persimmons to see how they would grow.
so far they have been loving it.
I've not really had to irrigate them, and I've even got some fruits setting on my Hachiya, and Tanenashi...Saijo did not flower.
I need to plant more! I think I'll be getting some soon.
I'm also going to plant more Che, grafted onto Osage orange rootstock....probably will intercrop with the persimmons...and mulberries.
How does Che taste?
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i tasted a seedless type at fruit and spice, i didn't realize that i picked it early...it was fully red, but not deep red.
the flavor was like a melon/fig/mulberry, but not super sweet...i assume it would have only been sweeter if I had got it when it was ripe.
I really enjoyed it...I have plans to plant more of them asap...so far the che has been a very strong plant, not requiring irrigation, even when small, and recently planted out into full blazing sun. They can take wet feet, and a drought (I suppose because of the rootstock?)
I have a high water table here at my house, and I planted some persimmons to see how they would grow.
so far they have been loving it.
I've not really had to irrigate them, and I've even got some fruits setting on my Hachiya, and Tanenashi...Saijo did not flower.
I need to plant more! I think I'll be getting some soon.
I'm also going to plant more Che, grafted onto Osage orange rootstock....probably will intercrop with the persimmons...and mulberries.
How does Che taste?
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Hmmm...I didnt think the Che would produce this far south let alone the F&S Park.
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Hmmm...I didnt think the Che would produce this far south let alone the F&S Park.
I thought the same unitl last time i went, and saw the tree near the mulberries. The fruit was overripe though so can't comment on taste or productivity.
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I have a high water table here at my house, and I planted some persimmons to see how they would grow.
so far they have been loving it.
I've not really had to irrigate them, and I've even got some fruits setting on my Hachiya, and Tanenashi...Saijo did not flower.
I need to plant more! I think I'll be getting some soon.
I'm also going to plant more Che, grafted onto Osage orange rootstock....probably will intercrop with the persimmons...and mulberries.
Where did you get you're che? I have a grafted male and female plant now but they are tiny. The female did flower but the fruit aborted. I was thinking about grabbing a bigger one from Just Fruits but I'll probably wait for next season since they are done shipping for the year.
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I allowed a no-name, heirloom, oblong, astringent variety to become soft, before peeling and dehydrated them, for a naturally-sugary treat. Air layers grow cauliflower-like, yellow callouses, but have never once rooted for me. Very-rare seeds (maybe 1 seed for every 3 dozen fruit) had a high germ rate.
Black sapote, a persimmon, responded very well to bat guano. Grafting may confer cold tolerance.
And, African ebony, also a persimmon, are germinating in water. These apparently send out suckers from the roots, so may be a source of income.
1+ ounces of free date plum seeds have yet to germinate, after one year, in common soil.
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Beware of pollen bearing persimmons like chocolate. Just a small
branch will result in all your persimmons being full of seeds.
The saijo tree at my old house was producing 100s of pounds of fruit
after 5 years and grew like a weed.
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Hey yall,
I'm grafting Hachiya, Rojo Brillante (Spain's leading variety! I absolutely love it, it's an astringent type but they treat it with CO2 so you can eat them as you would non astringent) and fuyu....
I tasted a store bought fuyu last week but I wasn't really impressed. I just thought I'd still proceed and graft it because as much as I love mushy persimmons, I dont think I'll be able to hold on until the astringency is all gone.
Now one I'm really curious about is the Hachiya because I've never tried it.... What do you guys think about it? Is it really worth it? I heard it's the most popular variety in the US...
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From what I understand is that Hachiya and Fuyu are up there in terms of taste and obviously have excellent productivity. Only a few rival them and since the flavor of astringents and non astringents are monotone within their respective categories, most of them rank high. The only difference is the intensiveness of the signature persimmon flavor or texture. I bet only a persimmon connoisseur from Japan or a member from Texas's persimmon clubs could distinguish the difference. Astringent ones that are flat tomato shaped are best for fresh eating, while conical shaped ones excel at both drying and fresh eating.
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How exactly do you fertilize persimmon? Ever since I bought my Fuyu, it hasn't grown much. I do a combo a citrus fertilizer (which I should replace with a 8-8-8) and fish emulsion. I do a micro nutrient foliar spray as well. Is it too hot? Not the right growing season?
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From what I understand is that Hachiya and Fuyu are up there in terms of taste and obviously have excellent productivity. Only a few rival them and since the flavor of astringents and non astringents are monotone within their respective categories, most of them rank high. The only difference is the intensiveness of the signature persimmon flavor or texture. I bet only a persimmon connoisseur from Japan or a member from Texas's persimmon clubs could distinguish the difference. Astringent ones that are flat tomato shaped are best for fresh eating, while conical shaped ones excel at both drying and fresh eating.
Wow that last bit of information turns out to be true, it is a cool and easy way to know what use to make of a bountiful crop. The above mentionned varieties have indeed a reputation for bearing heavily and one better know what to do with a heavy crop ahead of time...
Anyway, I woke up to swollen pushing buds on my grafted lotuses and I can't wait til the first leaves show up and right right I'm just glad I grafted a fuyu and 2 Hachiyas!!!!
I'll post pictures when they have developped some more!
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My small fuyu tree has many fruits set, while happy for it being happy, do persimmon trees require manual thinning? Or will it take care of itself?
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My small fuyu tree has many fruits set, while happy for it being happy, do persimmon trees require manual thinning? Or will it take care of itself?
Persimmon, Fuyu especially, are notorious for having very high success at fruit set and holding it.
If this is the first year in ground, then thin it to no more than 1-3 fruit per branch. They will actually benefit from holding some fruit to weigh down and strengthen the branches because persimmon wood is very weak, but really need root and limb development first year or two in ground.
If this is after the first or second year, then let them develop unless fruits are too close together--thin those only. Persimmons are tough, and can hold quite a bit of fruit without much stress to the tree.
I thin mine by about 50% just because it makes the fruit larger and tastier--especially on the suruga.
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Persimmon, Fuyu especially, are notorious for having very high success at fruit set and holding it. If this is the first year in ground, then thin it to no more than 1-3 fruit per branch.
Thank you so much Viking Guy! This tree is recovering from a relocation this spring, and is bearing fruit for the first time.
It took care of itself by dropping fruits :'( :'( :'( Probably tried to too hard and needs some feeding. Any recommendations on organic persimmon fertilizers?
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Persimmon, Fuyu especially, are notorious for having very high success at fruit set and holding it. If this is the first year in ground, then thin it to no more than 1-3 fruit per branch.
Thank you so much Viking Guy! This tree is recovering from a relocation this spring, and is bearing fruit for the first time.
It took care of itself by dropping fruits :'( :'( :'( Probably tried to too hard and needs some feeding. Any recommendations on organic persimmon fertilizers?
You should also consider getting a chocolate to help increase pollination for astringency reduction in some varieties since it makes a predominant number of male flowers.
I can't comment so much on organic brand fertilizers (adding peat, bone meal, etc isn't going to hurt), but I'd suggest keeping nitrogen low (around 20%-25% of your P & K), with humus and micros. Also, add worm castings and epsom salts.
Once fruits are set each year, be sure to tip the longer branches to promote some new side growth and increase girths.
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It took care of itself by dropping fruits :'( :'( :'( Probably tried to too hard and needs some feeding. Any recommendations on organic persimmon fertilizers?
I fed the tree a bit using commercial plant food 2 weeks ago. The tree has been able to hold its the remaining 7 fruits... LOL yeah I count them.
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Just bought a 6 foot Tanenashi persimmon tree, cant wait for fruit. My favorite of all Persimmons, Read they do excellent in my climate. Wonder why there aren't any persimmon farms here.
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I have been kind of wondering why they aren't more of a commercial fruit as well. I barely do anything to mine and they grow great here in Orlando. Probably the easiest tree I grow outside of an olive tree. Actually replacing my apple trees with persimmons as they go down. Three left but I don't think they are going anywhere any time soon so its too soon to start researching new persimmons to try.
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Persimmon is not a sub-tropical plant...may be Florida is too warm for it. Persimmons like mediterranea climate, but also sub-continental climate. Here in Italy they produce perfectly.....but we can't grow Jackfruit :-)
P.s.
Maybe the flavor of a Persimmon grown in Florida is not the same of one grown in colder place...this could be the reason why you don't find farm that produce it
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This is an interesting article about persimmons in central florida http://www.highlandstoday.com/list/highlands-agri-leader-news/persimmons-perfect-to-plant-in-floridas-fall-482603 (http://www.highlandstoday.com/list/highlands-agri-leader-news/persimmons-perfect-to-plant-in-floridas-fall-482603)
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My mother has a 64 year old Hachiya tree. When it was 10 years old my father dug it up and moved it to its present location. It's been mostly ignored in terms of pruning, other than cutting out dead limbs. It's got a huge clump of mistletoe at about the 15 foot level. Every couple of years it looks like its last but then it comes back the next year. 500 fruits would be an underestimate.
I have no idea why he got or kept the tree, he didn't like persimmons, nobody in the family does. Each year my mother gives away a few grocery bags full but the rest goes in the garbage. Maybe I'll try to make a few Hoshigaki this year.
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My South Florida/Hudson fruit is ripening now. They're not the world's greatest persimmons, but I'm just happy to be growing any persimmons at all. They're moderately sweet with a slight bitter aftertaste. Triumph persimmons are not ripening yet.
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Does anyone know if the Chocolate or Coffee ones grow true from seed? I would like them but I don't think that they are in australia.
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Does anyone know if the Chocolate or Coffee ones grow true from seed? I would like them but I don't think that they are in australia.
I had black sapote when in Australia. It was in the Cairns area. I think it is pretty common.
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Black Sapote and chocolate persimmon are two different trees although granted the black sapote is sometimes called that. As to the seed question, couldn't tell you. My two are not old enough yet to put out fruit.
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Hello! I have a question about persimmon fruit disorder of some type but don't know what causes it and would appreciate it if there is anyone who can help with explanation. The problem appeares on fruit as circular black stripes going from side to side not vertically on ripe fruit. So what could be the explanation for that?
http://gartlc.mojforum.si/gartlc-about561-0-asc-75.html (http://gartlc.mojforum.si/gartlc-about561-0-asc-75.html)
On the link the first picture is about the topic.
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I have fuyu with tamopan and honan road grafts.
Tamopan is a large fruit that looks like a hamburger. Astringent though.
I never ate a fruit off the tree. The rodents always get them.
Same problem here but I saved a few with plastic clamshells. Pretty much all others were eaten by rats at an average rate of two a day until I killed it with a good old fashioned rat trap. I will take the same measures next year a lot sooner.
Jay