Author Topic: Grafting pineapple guava  (Read 20275 times)

Pancrazio

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Grafting pineapple guava
« on: April 12, 2016, 08:28:49 PM »
Does anyone has any tip on grafting pineapple guavas? I think i'm gonna give a try to this, and i wondered if people here have attempted it/ have had luck at it. Supposedly it is pretty difficult, but i don't have any first hand experience, and i'd like suggestions. Cleft? T-bud?
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fyliu

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Re: Grafting pineapple guava
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2016, 11:18:58 PM »
You're talking about feijoa or acca sellowiana I assume.

I've had good success winter grafting with whip and tongue. I did a few clefts and they worked well too. Very bad failures with summer grafting. 3 years of summer grafting failures. Last year I did some in September and one took.

Do you guys import them from New Zeland and Australia? It's hard to find many cultivate here but there's the beginnings of a germplasm collection.

Solko

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Re: Grafting pineapple guava
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2016, 03:22:41 AM »
I've done some summer grafting with Feijoa last year. Chip budding, veneer grafting, cleft grafting and whip and tongue.... All but one died out of twenty grafts. The one that survived was a veneer graft, but all in all it wasn't a big success.

Now that spring is starting, I was just doing some cleft grafting yesterday. I hope that that will give me some better results... I will post results in a couple of months.

Fyliu, here in France I have just been able to get Coolidge, Mammoth, Triumph, Apollo and Gemini as named cultivars. None of the new New Zealand cultivars around so far...

Pancrazio

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Re: Grafting pineapple guava
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2016, 08:06:29 AM »
Yes, i was interested in feijoa.
The new australian cultivar looks really interesting but as far i can see this plant it's a little tricky to reproduce, so i think a clear protocol should be estabilished. I have heard about growing cuttings, but when i attempted it, i didn't have any success. So now i will try with grafting.
The plant i did bough are about to push (they have swelling buds) do you think it can be a good moment for grafts now? Usually that stage is great, for clefts, at least with citrus and mangos. I hoped to get good results also with feijoas.
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Solko

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Re: Grafting pineapple guava
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2016, 08:50:59 AM »
To be honest, I don't know if this is the best time, but I thought along the same line as you and tried grafting this week as well. As you say, for other plants this is the optimal stage, and as there is so little information about Feijoa grafting out there, I thought it was worth a try.

Edself had some success last year with cleft grafting in early spring: http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=10358.msg133707#msg133707

fyliu

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Re: Grafting pineapple guava
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2016, 02:59:38 PM »
I'm getting over 50% takes, maybe up to 80% this year but I have to check more closely and wait to be sure. The local expert suggested spring for grafting as well, and that's mid-March here normally.
I got a good amount of scions so I did 1 graft of all varieties and did it again 2 weeks later. I saved the rest in the fridge in case I need to graft again. In the past, an excessive heat event would kill all the new grafts no matter how many I put on the tree. So it's better to space them out in my climate.

Are you guys grafting on small or mature trees? It's said to graft better on younger plants but I don't have space for more so I'm doing it on my one tree I got ~7 years ago.

Pancrazio

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Re: Grafting pineapple guava
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2016, 08:41:03 PM »
I did buy two plants specifically for this purpose and they have swelling buds. So i guessed they could take a graft nicely. I do really hope they will be successfull because named cultivar here were i live are hard to come by, and moreover, the capability to get good grafts with feijoas seems very necessary to reproduce this plants that seems not so easy to multiplicate. Cuttings should work to but so far i haven't seen any cutting take.

fyliu, I’m using 2 nursery plants, I'm assuming 2 years old plants. Not more than this; they were so cheap that i can't believe they are 3 years old. They are pretty well developed, being about 4 feet tall. I thin i can get about 4 good grafting points for each plant.

I will keep you updated on techniques and results. If I’m able i will take a pic of buds so a documentation of the physiological state of my plant will remain, either if it will be a failure or a success.
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Solko

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Re: Grafting pineapple guava
« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2016, 03:38:33 AM »
I also have never had a Feijoa cutting take.
But as I said I had one graft take, so my hopes are set on graftin now. I will do some more grafting this week and I will take some pictures. I graft on seedling plants that are 3 to 4 years old.

As far as budwood goes, my plants of named varieties are still very small, so the scions are not ideal yet. Pancrazio, maybe you would like to check this website, they sell rooted cuttings of Feijoa varieties for a very small price. Maybe they also ship to Italy?

http://www.mesarbustes.fr/catalogsearch/result/?cat=0&q=feijoa

There also should be some good French varieties (Andre and Besson), I believe they are the result of the earliest selections, when seeds were imported to France from Brazil and Uruguay around 1900. And I am in France, but I haven't found anyone here that grows them yet. The local seedlings do look quite different from the named varieties though. I am trying to graft both onto each other.
I was also looking for seeds or scions of Mark Albert, but so far no luck and I haven't been able to reach him through email.

These are the pictures of my single success with side veneer grafting in summer: the variety is Triumph, grafted onto a 2 or 3 year old seedling











Pancrazio

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Re: Grafting pineapple guava
« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2016, 03:10:57 PM »
Thank you solko for that link! They have really a good price and moreover they seem to sell even in italy. Also, they have marion which is unaviable in italy.

My experience  in grafting says that once you learn to "read" the plant and you are able to recognize the best moment to graft, it is actually a trivial task. I think that maybe this is the case?

Regarding the varieties available around here, we don't have anything too exciting. Apollo, Triumph, Unique, Gemini, Mammoth. The real good stuff is from AUS, but if i locate anything remotely interesting here, i will let you know!

Good work with that graft. I will have you updated on how the stuff here develops.
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fyliu

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Re: Grafting pineapple guava
« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2016, 03:22:38 PM »
I heard that air layering is one of the main propagation methods in New Zealand. But you'll need the owner of the plant to do it for you.

Pancrazio

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Re: Grafting pineapple guava
« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2016, 04:56:11 PM »
That's infeasible right now, but once i'll have my plant i'll surely go for air layer, even more because in case we get a killer freeze, the plant can start from roots as "real" variety.
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Pancrazio

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Re: Grafting pineapple guava
« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2016, 09:02:19 PM »
Ok, so, i finally got some scions and did graft my plants.
Firstly, the feijoa seems really hard to graft. I have never seen a drier wood! Loss like you are grafting on a dead plant! Both the scion and the rootstock.
I received the scions from a kind person, but too bad during the time in transit some kind of rot had set in, so i don't know about the effective sanitary state of the cuttings/scions.
I grafted them anyway because of course few chances are better than no chances.



I really don't know if feijoa wood is supposed to be so dark.



However i did diligently finish my graft and now i just hope to see them push, but i don't have my hopes to high.





@fyliu: on a semi-related note; i kept in mind your suggestion on T bud graft for citrus. So i started regularly to check if my citrus showed any sign of bark separating easily from wood. Interestingly enough, while my poncirus trifoliata "Flying dragon" has already stopped it growth "lenght-wise" (ending what would have been the best moment for cleft graft, in my experience!), the bark has just started to split from wood easily (i say "just started" because while this works well only on higher portions of the stem while closer to the roots, the bark still adheres firmly to wood).
However i said to myself "why no?" and did promptly graft a myagawa on it, with a T bud of course.



I tied it with raffia because in my humble opinion while it may look outdated, it is a very solid choice for t bud, better than alternatives, because it can be tied very tightly while it doesn't impair your work by sticking to your fingers and so on.
The petiole has been left, of course, to see if the graft has taken.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2016, 09:04:20 PM by Pancrazio »
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Solko

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Re: Grafting pineapple guava
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2016, 01:57:38 AM »
The grafts look good, Pancrazio, my plants are of the same size and now look exactly like yours.

I have grafted four of them. Thirty grafts in total, I hope that will increase the chances of at least some takes. If so, I will be able to see which type of grafts take better, and in what percentage.
The wood is really hard and I used a 'real' grafting knife, not a scalpel or cutter. I've seen in another thread that you prefer that, too. It just seems much better for the job. But my wood, which was freshly cut, indeed looks much lighter on the inside then yours. That wood looks a bit 'spongy', or 'mushy'. Maybe your friend should have cut the leaves off before sending the scions? Or were they exposed to frost in transit? I hope they will take, but if they don't, it might be more because of the quality of the scions, than your expertise as a grafter.



Here are two pictures of my FrankenFeijoa's, I'm keeping my fingers crossed:





Your Myagawa T-bud looks good, and interesting that you prefer tying with raffia, I have never tried that.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2016, 03:47:43 AM by Solko »

Solko

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Re: Grafting pineapple guava
« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2016, 02:03:28 AM »
Here are some close ups of the three types of grafts I tried:

Cleft graft:



Whip and tongue:



Side veneer:



I suspect the type of graft doesn't really make a difference for the percentage of takes. Timing seems to be much more important, but just as an experiment, I thought to do all three types. I'll follow up in a month or so.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2016, 02:32:17 AM by Solko »

Solko

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Re: Grafting pineapple guava
« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2016, 02:21:16 AM »
On a related note, another type of Feijoa propagation I have tried for two years now, and this seems to work well, is stooling. It only works for plants that are growing on their own roots, though, and it takes a year, but it seems pretty fool-proof. I grow mine in pots, which makes it even easier.

Feijoa's seem to sprout these flimsy little branches at the root base, which are ideal for this.
I have found some pictures that I took last year:

First you remove the mulch or top layer of the soil. Then you sand the bark of these flimsy branches, bend them down to the soil and pin them down to hold them in place:



After that, you cover the branches with 5 to 10 cm of soil and mulch and just let them grow:



And a year later you should be able to remove the top layer again, cut the branches of the main trunk, and they should have well developed roots on them. Last year this worked fine for me.



I also tried taking cuttings and rooting them, but all of them died. So stooling seems to work better for me, and it is a lot easier. But it is only an option when you have the time and the plants you want to propagate in your possession.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2016, 02:35:37 AM by Solko »

merce3

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Re: Grafting pineapple guava
« Reply #15 on: April 21, 2016, 08:15:41 AM »
A good practice for grafting guava is to prepare the scion by stripping all the leaves, tipping and waiting about a week for it to swell before clipping.

fyliu

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Re: Grafting pineapple guava
« Reply #16 on: April 21, 2016, 05:20:35 PM »
These scions look to be on the puny side. I tried grafting small ones like these but none took. Summer grafting was a major factor in my failures. Were you able to get some to take at that size?

This information would help us have a better idea of factors affecting grafting success rates.
Timing, scion size, rootstock age, grafting method, location of graft on plant.

One interesting thing I noticed on my tree is it doesn't produce flier buds past a certain height (~2meters). I'm not sure if that's the natural limit of the variety or something else. It's a coolidgei, which is supposed to be more upright in growth.

Pancrazio

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Re: Grafting pineapple guava
« Reply #17 on: April 21, 2016, 08:45:39 PM »
Maybe your friend should have cut the leaves off before sending the scions? Or were they exposed to frost in transit? I hope they will take, but if they don't, it might be more because of the quality of the scions, than your expertise as a grafter.

You are way too kind!  :D Hopefully i'll be a good grafter enough to have them to take, but honestly, i share your idea that the wood doesn't look good. I also think that he should have cut the leaves, but he was so quick and kind in sending me those, without asking anything in return, that didn't even dare tell him that they won't probably take.



Here are two pictures of my FrankenFeijoa's, I'm keeping my fingers crossed:





Your grafts looks good from here! However i tend to think along the lines of fyliu, and probably some bigger sized scion could have encountered more success? I have noticed on mangoes that if you graft some bigger scions, compared to smaller scions of same age, they tend to be more successful; i thing along those lines: probably bigger scions better retain their humidity giving the cut more time to heal.
So, i usually try to graft the biggest 1-year old wood that i have available.

Your Myagawa T-bud looks good, and interesting that you prefer tying with raffia, I have never tried that.

I like raffia because it isn't elastic at all, and you can do a really tight tie... you can do it with other materials, i have for instance a chip-budding tape, but it tends to deform if you put it under too much stress, and also it is sticky and becomes a nightmare to apply properly in certain situations (dusty/dirty environment when you t-buds very low on a freshly plowed field). I don't know how much of this holds true for electric tape, but the sticky part for sure remains. Parafilm is good when you want to keep the scion insulated from the external world, but isn't very efficient when you want to hold something in place... unless you use a lot of it. Of course para-film is one of my favored materials for grafting, but for t -bud raffia works really well, even more if you consider that a properly done T bud doesn't need much sealing, if at all, if your ties is strong enoug. So... rafia to me is just more convenient (also: biodegradable).

A good practice for grafting guava is to prepare the scion by stripping all the leaves, tipping and waiting about a week for it to swell before clipping.

At this point it's too late to attempt this, only precaution i had on my pineapple guava was the be sure it was was well hydrated: but i definitively will keep this in mind when i'm gonna try this again!

This information would help us have a better idea of factors affecting grafting success rates.
Timing, scion size, rootstock age, grafting method, location of graft on plant.

Oh, now that you make me think about it, i also tried a side veneer graft. Saw solko has success with it so i though "Why not?". I have even less hope on this one that on other grafts, it was my first side veneer. Well, more of a chip budding now that i think about it.



« Last Edit: April 21, 2016, 08:58:16 PM by Pancrazio »
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Droshi

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Re: Grafting pineapple guava
« Reply #18 on: April 21, 2016, 08:57:24 PM »
I've had decent luck 50% or better at rooting cuttings, why not try that instead of the much more difficult to graft plan?

Cuttings taken as low as possible on the plant root better I've noticed, I read somewhere the reason for this but can't remember.

Ground layering is the most preferred if you can.

Solko

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Re: Grafting pineapple guava
« Reply #19 on: April 23, 2016, 04:56:26 AM »
These scions look to be on the puny side. I tried grafting small ones like these but none took. Summer grafting was a major factor in my failures. Were you able to get some to take at that size?

This information would help us have a better idea of factors affecting grafting success rates.
Timing, scion size, rootstock age, grafting method, location of graft on plant.


Yes, the scion size I had access to was far from ideal. I bought cuttings from selected varieties last fall and they only grew so much at the end of last year. I tried to take the best wood I could, but most of it is still green.
I only had good sized wood from Triumph, so if only those grafts take, we'll know that scion size is relevant.

@ Droshi
I'm glad to hear it worked for you, but I haven't had any luck with cuttings at all, even after several attempts. So that's why I am giving grafting a shot. Since I have limited space, I also prefer to have fewer trees with more varieties on them.


Pancrazio

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Re: Grafting pineapple guava
« Reply #20 on: April 23, 2016, 06:50:16 PM »
Well, 30 graft are really a big number of them so hopefully you will get a lot of data from this; i mean, even a relatively low success rate, of 10%, should be identifiable, while when you do few graft you always remain i boubt about any "bad luck" you may have experienced.
I'm eager to see how this stuff turns out, please let's keep each other updated!  :)

I have attempted to take cuttings from the plant too, unsuccessful, so i guess that grafting a this point is just the most sensible option.
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Solko

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Re: Grafting pineapple guava
« Reply #21 on: May 01, 2016, 04:00:40 PM »
The last two weeks the weather reverted back to winter, it got cold and grey again, and we even had frost for three nights, so the grafts aren't really pushing yet.
But after the useful tips and somments here, I saw that as an opportunity to do another round of grafting. This time I chose some larger and thicker budwood and I prepared it by taking the leaves off and letting the buds develop for a week. I tried eight more grafts this weekend. These aren't from any named varieties, I don't have any more budwood of those, I just interchanged the rootstocks that I had, because these had the right size. I did it more in the sense of the experiment and to have some material that is a bit different, so that I have something to compare the other grafts with.. I hope it will permit me to see if I can find out what the ideal time, budwood and grafting technique for Feijoa will be.
I'll post some follow ups later on.

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Re: Grafting pineapple guava
« Reply #22 on: May 02, 2016, 07:54:30 AM »
Nice idea Solko... i was thinking about doing the same just yesterday.
My scions haven't pushed yet, too. It's pretty cold also here, so i'm quite bummed since i have a lot of grafts on my plants.
Only think i notice is that all the petiole became black... if they are going to absciss, this will be a good sign, otherwise the scions are just dead.
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Pancrazio

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Re: Grafting pineapple guava
« Reply #23 on: May 02, 2016, 07:26:59 PM »


[...]
The petiole has been left, of course, to see if the graft has taken.

Ok, this one is for fyliu;
Today i was checking for this graft and the petiole did fall off so, apparently this may have taken.
So, your suggestion was very solid and i'm happy to own my first grafted miyagawa on poncirus trifoliata "flying dragon". Thank you once more!
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Solko

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Re: Grafting pineapple guava
« Reply #24 on: May 09, 2016, 09:54:26 AM »
That is an interesting idea, that the petiole will blacken or fall off when the graft has taken. I haven't seen that happen yet on my grafts. But last week was much warmer and sunnier and the plants have finally started to push and develop new buds on their own branches. I believe I even see some buds swelling under the parafilm on my grafts  ::) It is too early to tell though, but as soon I see some clear signs I will post some first results.

Another question on Feijoa; when you read the info on different varieties on the web, a lot of American and New Zealand websites speak of two varieties of Feijoa, Andre and Besson, that are "widely cultivated in France". These seem to be the first imported seeds from Brazil and Uruguay around the 1900's and planted in Southern France. I am sure that it is historically correct, the only problem is that I live in France and nobody seems to have heard of these varieties and they are impossible to find in any nurseries. I can see how such a story - and especially the idea that these varieties are "widely" cultivated in France would be easy to keep alive in other countries. Has anyone ever heard of anyone cultivating these varieties. Actually growing them?