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Tropical Fruit => Tropical Fruit Discussion => Topic started by: simon_grow on October 10, 2020, 07:03:55 PM

Title: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: simon_grow on October 10, 2020, 07:03:55 PM
Hello everyone, I’m starting this thread to track seed grown mango trees to fruition. I would like to gather information on the following:

1) Is it Polyembryonic or Monoembryonic?
2) How long did it take the seedling to fruit(include location)?
3) Growth habits of the tree, especially compared to maternal parent tree
4) Track production of the tree as it grows
5) If it’s a Polyembryonic seedling:
5a) How many sprouts did you get from the seed?
5b) Which seedling(s) did you grow out? The largest, medium, smallest or all?
5c) Which of the seedlings came out true to variety? The largest, medium, smallest or all?
5d) If you only got a single sprout from a Polyembryonic seed variety, did it turn out to be a clone or the zygotic seedling?

Edited post to include link of Mono Vs Polyembryonic mango varieties

http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=12030.0 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=12030.0)

It would be great to have pictures of the trees in different stages of growth. For Polyembryonic varieties, it would be especially important to track quality of fruit from the zygotic seedlings or off type seedlings from a Polyembryonic seed.

I’m especially interested in Polyembryonic off types because of the potential for superior fruit due to plants produced through selfing which sets the traits of that particular variety. A selfed mango flower is a flower of Sweet Tart for example, that was pollinated by itself(Sweet Tart). The resulting seedling is 100% Sweet Tart genetics but it is not a clone because there is a re arrangement of the chromosomes.

Actually, the zygotic seedling that was outcrossed with a different variety is just as interesting because of the increased genetic material incorporated by the pollinating parent. The increased genetic pool allows for a significantly higher chance that the resulting seedling will produce fruit that is much different than the maternal parent.

A Zygotic Sweet Tart seedling that was not selfed, for example, may produce fruit that tastes very different than the fruit produced from the maternal parent or a selfed seedling. This however, is highly unlikely because Sweet Tart is a variety that has certain dominant traits that have been concentrated or binned over the years.

Sweet Tart is a seedling of Zill Indochinese(ZIC) and both ZIC and Sweet Tart have that Indochinese flavor. Venus and Kathy(K3) are also descended from ZIC and they all have a similar Indochinese flavor according to my palate. Hey m not saying that they all taste the same but I can definitely detect that Indochinese flavor in all three.

We know that the Indochinese flavor is a heritable trait of ZIC seedlings but but we don’t know if it’s a simple dominant recessive trait or if it’s a lot more complicated and involves multiple alleles.

I also want to mention that we don’t have all the data. For example, how many ZIC seedlings did the Zill’s plant out. If they planted out 100 ZIC seedlings and purposefully selected the seedlings that had the Indochinese flavor, then my statements above may be completely off base.

What if Sweet Tart, Venus and Kathy were the only seedlings out of the 100 that had the Indochinese flavor?

I’m pretty much just thinking (typing) out loud now but I hope that you can see that I’m just trying to gather as much data as possible. The more data we can collect, the more accurate of a picture we can create and the better we will begin to understand and perhaps predict which seedlings may give better fruit.

Many members have asked questions such as, “which seedling from a Polyembryonic mango seed is the clone?” The literature out there sometimes can have conflicting conclusions or it may be variety specific but if we gather more data, we may be able to come up with a reasonably acceptable answer in the near future.

I know that there are already many members out there that have already planted mangos from seed and it would be great if you can add that data to this thread.

I believe Chris Wenzel from Truly Tropical has a video or two regarding seedling grown mango trees. Videos are a great option if you are so inclined.

Anyways, i hope anyone that has a seed grown mango tree can contribute to this thread. Thanks in advance!

Simon
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: skhan on October 10, 2020, 07:22:33 PM
Simon, I don't know much beyond the genetics covered in the basic Bio so I'll leave that part up to you.

I planted a bunch of Neelam seeds (like 30) from my tree and there are a few seedlings with an Indochinese smell. (They could have either got it from Cac or Manilita)
I have Honey Kiss grafted on the same tree so I'm hoping i to detect a Gary type sap smell in one of these too.

I'm planning on planting these out (as much as I can fit.
I'm looking for other late-season contenders

Also, have to Malika seedling (not from my yard) one smell like Neelam the other has more of the typical citrus smell.

I have a few other ones I'm planning on keeping track of (cotton candy, venus etc).

I'll keep you posted.
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: simon_grow on October 10, 2020, 09:55:18 PM
Hey Sayyid, that’s awesome! Hopefully you will find some nice late season seedlings with good Indian flavors.

Here’s my first fruit from a Sweet Tart seedling that was planted in 2016. I planted one Sweet Tart seed directly into the ground, if I remember correctly, and two sprouts came up. I just let them grow and they both flowered in their third year, last year. This year, they flowered again and I removed all the blooms but one was hiding under some leaves and by the time I saw it, it was about half formed so I decided to leave it.

This fruit is from seedling number two of two. When I number my Polyembryonic seedlings, number one is the largest seedling and number two is the second largest seedling and so on. This naming convention will help me find out wether the largest or smaller seedlings are the potential clones if we can collect enough data.

This tree was planted next to a huge Pomegranate tree and has been shaded for most of the 4 years it’s been alive until I pruned the neighboring trees earlier this year. I’m not expecting much from this fruit because it still gets a lot of shade and this seedling is only about two feet tall.  This seedling #2 has a trunk diameter of approximately 3/4 inch. The fruit weighs just over 11 oz and it fell into my hands as I was checking the bottom of the fruit for insect damage. The nose of the fruit was touching the ground due to the short stature of the tree.
(https://i.postimg.cc/cKnyKDB9/23-C031-E9-D4-BC-4-A53-8820-9520-EC6-EF78-B.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/cKnyKDB9)

(https://i.postimg.cc/k6PrWxjn/4-E9-A986-C-7748-4319-A557-45-FD449-A81-C8.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/k6PrWxjn)

(https://i.postimg.cc/476DPmMp/7678-C55-B-1-C50-419-A-B6-D3-38-B5-BAFD1-D44.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/476DPmMp)

(https://i.postimg.cc/3d8TLF3N/B67-B540-B-CBAC-47-CF-A6-DA-336-F77-A090-E0.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/3d8TLF3N)

(https://i.postimg.cc/V0z3VzQp/C40-E9258-8-FD7-4-B2-B-87-E0-F0995535170-B.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/V0z3VzQp)

(https://i.postimg.cc/YGYn7Zz7/DEAD4097-5246-4991-8-CBA-A50-A3-A35-B221.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/YGYn7Zz7)
Simon
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: Mike T on October 10, 2020, 11:34:06 PM
There are many thousands of KP seedlings of various selections planted in my home town on public land and in yards. It seems one in ten yards or so has a KP seedling. They get big and fruit is as good as from grafted trees as they are polys. They usually take 5 years to fruit.
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: simon_grow on October 11, 2020, 12:12:04 AM
Here is the whole tree, Sweet Tart Seedling #1 is on the right and it is twice as tall (4feet) as Sweet Tart Seedling #2. Sweet Tart Seedling #1 has a trunk diameter of about 1 1/4 inches. In hindsight, I should have separated the two seedlings when they were smaller so that each seedling would have space to grow.

The way I planted them, the two trunks are growing away from each other causing the main trunks to grow at an angle. Sweet Tart Seedling #2 is leaning over so far that it has very poor form.

An alternative space saving idea is to graft the weaker seedling onto a branch of the stronger seedling. This way, you get to test out both seedlings on just one tree.
(https://i.postimg.cc/sQx6LmTP/F5738-F5-A-8726-4-D18-B7-FA-0-CBC8-B689647.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/sQx6LmTP)


(https://i.postimg.cc/S2PTb9PB/4-A885286-774-C-4-C84-BE9-C-3-C748-C857-CD8.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/S2PTb9PB)

You can see how close the trunks are in this picture

(https://i.postimg.cc/14g7cWns/C47-CAD9-D-25-DC-487-A-95-D3-84675-BD5-BCCD.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/14g7cWns)
Simon
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: fliptop on October 11, 2020, 06:36:54 AM
Simon, are you looking for responses only regarding seedlings that have already fruited?
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: roblack on October 11, 2020, 09:39:43 AM
Wonderful idea for a thread. Very curious to learn how different seedling mango trees fare and fruit.

I have a few seedlings going, but not sure what their fate shall be. All started this summer.

Found 2 Glenn (mono) volunteers. Thinking about keeping at least one, but was considering grafting onto it.

I am more curious about Ceci Love and Z20 (both mono) seedlings growing in pots. Intend to take cuttings and add them to a larger Glenn tree, but will keep the trees in pots for now.

Also, have Manalita, OS, and LZ seedlings in pots (all poly), along with a random/unkown sprout or 2.

Following and will update on my progress.
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: simon_grow on October 11, 2020, 03:36:51 PM
Simon, are you looking for responses only regarding seedlings that have already fruited?

No, you can use this thread to start tracking from the beginning even before they fruit.

Mike, Leo Manuel has a grafted Kensington Pride and also a seedling of KP and I can’t tell them apart. They are good fruit.

Simon
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: V on October 12, 2020, 02:18:19 AM
Great thread, simon_grow!

I just planted my Sweet Tart and CAC seedlings in the ground. I put the seeds in pots almost 3 months ago.
Sweet Tart seed produced 3 seedlings. CAC seed produced 6+ seedlings.
In both cases, I planted 2 strongest seedlings in the same hole.

Sweet Tart seedlings before planting:
(https://i.postimg.cc/PNtQrWzC/IMG-8046.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/PNtQrWzC)

Sweet Tart seedlings after planting:
(https://i.postimg.cc/JGFNq9wX/IMG-8048.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JGFNq9wX)
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: Future on October 12, 2020, 04:30:49 PM
Great idea.  As mine fruit, I’ll fill in the blanks...
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: SHV on October 12, 2020, 05:21:00 PM
I have a variety of seedlings planted earlier this spring and over the past 3 years.  As already discussed in this forum, I gave up planting grafted trees from FL and had much better success with seedlings and now starting to top work the 3 year olds.  Some of my one year old seedlings include Ewais, Malda, PPK, ST Maui, Ice Cream, 13-1, Sugarloaf, Peach, Kent, Ataulfo, and Ott.  Other 3-5 year old planted seedlings include Paheri, Okrung, Dasheri, Nam Tam Teem, Dot, KP, Cambodiana, and Carrie.
Other than a seedling Manila that produced terrible fruit, I had a Saigon and Not Ott fruit for me this year. Each are about 4-5 years old. The Saigon had medium fiber and unspectacular taste.  I was expecting more from this variety, however, it was the first year and a seedling.  I only allowed one mango to ripen on my Not Ott seedling and it was spectacular!  Orange tang flavor and completely fiberless. Seed was poly. Here is the growth over the past three years.

2018

(https://i.postimg.cc/Wd80vBxy/67-C8-BB7-E-235-B-435-C-8-B0-D-B28-CDDC43129.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Wd80vBxy)

2019

(https://i.postimg.cc/tZZ6FY70/E3-D6-DBB2-D9-BA-4779-8-C56-20-FF3-A183429.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/tZZ6FY70)

2020

(https://i.postimg.cc/hQV7369p/CD61-AF91-2-B66-478-F-82-AE-F1-EBA073-F841.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hQV7369p)
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: fliptop on October 13, 2020, 05:15:05 PM
Here are my Coconut Cream seedlings. Two are from a single seed from 2018 (Tropical Acres Farm).

Their baby pic:
(https://i.postimg.cc/qzq8t7n4/20180718-071938-1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/qzq8t7n4)

They both went in the ground in February 2019. The larger-leafed one on the left ended up having some dieback in the ground and looked sickly, so I yanked it and threw it in a pot. It thrived and has since been returned to the earth. Here's a blurry pic of where the dieback was:
(https://i.postimg.cc/9DGt2nZ7/20201013-145415-1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/9DGt2nZ7)

Here it is now. It's about two feet tall:
(https://i.postimg.cc/Y4C4Pn3k/20201013-145402.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Y4C4Pn3k)

The originally smaller seedling has taken off. I pruned it at around three feet. It's since kicked out all that new growth and is around five feet tall. Its leaves are thinner than the other seedling, and thinner than Coconut Cream trees I've seen.
(https://i.postimg.cc/dL0VwkCm/20201013-144023-HDR-1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/dL0VwkCm)

I do have another Coconut Cream 2019 seedling from a fruit from a mango tasting in Punta Gorda. Only one seedling emerged and it's grown well in spite of being moved around a couple times and having some sooty mold on it now:
(https://i.postimg.cc/Z0Gwh32X/20201013-145904-1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Z0Gwh32X)
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: fliptop on October 13, 2020, 05:25:04 PM
My Pim Seng Mun seedlings from 2017.

I got four sprouts from a single seed. One was quite vigorous and I put it in the ground when I lived in Spring Hill and it died in the winter. I didn't mind so much, as it was very vigorous and its crushed leaves did not have the fruit smell of the parent seed. The three remaining seedlings' crushed leaves smelled like the parent fruit. I kept two and they were planted in Punta Gorda in 2019. The initially larger one stalled in growth for a while, but just put out new growth. It's got big leaves.
(https://i.postimg.cc/k2sr4fd2/20201013-144051-1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/k2sr4fd2)

The other:
(https://i.postimg.cc/JHZvWQq4/20201013-144102-1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JHZvWQq4)
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: fliptop on October 13, 2020, 05:38:41 PM
Other seedlings include 3 Baptiste (from 2 different seeds), 3 Pickering, 2 Lemon Meringue (2 different seeds), 1 Madame Francis (from a Whole Foods fruit, so it's from Haiti), and 1 Sweet Tart.

The 2018 Lemon Meringue seed provided two sprouts, one which withered away and died. The other seedling is doing well. I've not trimmed the tree; it's branched on its own:
(https://i.postimg.cc/w32bD3Gr/20201013-144326-HDR-1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/w32bD3Gr)

I've planted a couple Sweet Tart seeds, which provided multiple sprouts. Oddly enough, most withered away and died. This is the only one that's thrived:
(https://i.postimg.cc/BLMcPPnc/20201007-072406-1-1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/BLMcPPnc)
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: fliptop on October 13, 2020, 06:10:50 PM
skhan, are you using any other characteristic besides smell in your Neelam seedling selections (namely, growth habit)?
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: simon_grow on October 15, 2020, 01:48:53 AM
Here is a Pina Colada seedling grafted onto a mature rootstock. If you’ve never had Pina Colada, you’re missing out. It’s right up there with Sweet Tart in terms of explosive flavor and perfect balance of sweet and tart. Pina Colada is absolutely incredible.

The issue with Pina Colada is that it is a slow grower in SoCal. Several years ago, I planted out about 30-50 Pina Colada seeds and grew them out. Many of them died within the first year, they seem susceptible to some fungal disease in my are a that affects them more than other seedlings. After allowing Mother Nature to weed out the weaker seedlings, I was left with about 5 plants that survived outside unprotected. These seedlings were more vigorous than the ones that died out so vigor may have a positive correlation with survivability at least in my climate.

Several of these trees are planted out at Brads orchard and I kept one in a pot at my house. About three months ago, I took a a scion from my Pina Colada seedling and grafted it onto an established rootstock. This Pina Colada seedling was planted from seed on 07/27/18 and I grafted the scion onto my established rootstock on 07/04/20. After grafting, this scion has flushed 2-3 times already.

The flushes have maintained the short internode distance between leaves that the real Pina Colada seems to have. The grafted Pina Colada Seedling is growing so much faster when grafted onto a strong established rootstock.
(https://i.postimg.cc/G8rgPDBH/6-DC05-BD3-465-B-4110-9-C50-0818703-F3304.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/G8rgPDBH)

(https://i.postimg.cc/bDTCmvbL/74337-B53-75-BC-4-F94-8-EF4-185-F4-FB515-D8.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/bDTCmvbL)

For those growers that are short on space, multigrafting multiple seedlings onto a larger rootstock can save you space and probably give you much faster growth than seedlings growing on their own rootstock. Multigraft trees can become difficult to track however so think before you do this and make sure you tag your grafts.

Simon
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: shaneatwell on October 15, 2020, 11:25:40 AM
Interesting thread Simon.

I'd like to expand on one of the genetic issues.

I’m especially interested in Polyembryonic off types because of the potential for superior fruit due to plants produced through selfing which sets the traits of that particular variety. A selfed mango flower is a flower of Sweet Tart for example, that was pollinated by itself(Sweet Tart). The resulting seedling is 100% Sweet Tart genetics but it is not a clone because there is a re arrangement of the chromosomes.

To be clear, its not only re-arrangement of chromosomes, where the arms of the chromosome arms inherited from the grandparents cross over and you get patchwork chromosomes mixing up grandmas and grandpas genes on a single arm. There's also the fact that the child plants can have either arm paired with itself or paired with its opposite. Which gives rise to the phenomenon that with regard to any particular gene the child can inherit one grandma copy plus one grandpa copy, or both grandmas copies, or both grandpas. So if the, just to have fun, 'fiberless' gene A is dominant and comes from grandma, and A' from grandpa but has a bit of fiber then the self cross child can be AA, or AA' or A'A'. The second of these is genetically equivalent to the parent plant, but the first and last effectively loses one of the grandparent's genes. By observation you would keep either AA or AA' variants as both being fiberless, but reject A'A' for having fiber. But you wouldn't know if you had AA or AA'. At some generation it would go to AA by chance (1/3 of the selectants are AA) and become fixed because A' would no longer be in the genetics anywhere. After that A would always pair with A.

To put it another way, 100% of the child's genetics comes from the self-crossed parent, but 100% of the parent's genetics is NOT preserved in the child. There's always gene variants being lost (going homozygous to one of the grandparent's versions). That's what 'sets' the traits. Eventually it happens to all the genes (after 7 generations of selecting for desired characteristics is the rule of thumb). At that point instead of having AA'/BB'/CC'/DD' etc., you have AA/BB/CC/DD with largely identical offspring and the only diversity is created from rarer genetic events.

Anyway, its a fascinating aspect of plant breeding that isn't always clear. 


Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: fruit4me on October 15, 2020, 12:53:14 PM
Guava seed has 5 sprouts coming out
(https://i.postimg.cc/684z1Mn3/20201015-093836.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/684z1Mn3)

Seed from this guava mango
(https://i.postimg.cc/nj1CVtbL/20200913-210654.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/nj1CVtbL)

At first, thought  seed was mono

(https://i.postimg.cc/fJdQYfyc/20200913-213245.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/fJdQYfyc)

(https://i.postimg.cc/3yScskWr/20200913-210736.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/3yScskWr)

(https://i.postimg.cc/9rCYBWFL/20200915-232653.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/9rCYBWFL)

(https://i.postimg.cc/Jsh39PXJ/20200915-232725.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Jsh39PXJ)

(https://i.postimg.cc/JGxc69sM/20200918-100825.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JGxc69sM)
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: chris1 on October 15, 2020, 06:29:02 PM
I will be following this. Cool idea for a thread. Seems like a lot of people have had success getting fruit a lot sooner than many say. I tend to hear 5-10 years as the standard comment but seems to be a lot faster. I planted a bunch of various seedlings in pots. I will be using them to see if I can learn to graft though. I likely won’t grow them out. I also would be willing to give some away to anyone that wanted to grow them out. 
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: simon_grow on October 16, 2020, 02:32:36 PM
Interesting thread Simon.

I'd like to expand on one of the genetic issues.

I’m especially interested in Polyembryonic off types because of the potential for superior fruit due to plants produced through selfing which sets the traits of that particular variety. A selfed mango flower is a flower of Sweet Tart for example, that was pollinated by itself(Sweet Tart). The resulting seedling is 100% Sweet Tart genetics but it is not a clone because there is a re arrangement of the chromosomes.

To be clear, its not only re-arrangement of chromosomes, where the arms of the chromosome arms inherited from the grandparents cross over and you get patchwork chromosomes mixing up grandmas and grandpas genes on a single arm. There's also the fact that the child plants can have either arm paired with itself or paired with its opposite. Which gives rise to the phenomenon that with regard to any particular gene the child can inherit one grandma copy plus one grandpa copy, or both grandmas copies, or both grandpas. So if the, just to have fun, 'fiberless' gene A is dominant and comes from grandma, and A' from grandpa but has a bit of fiber then the self cross child can be AA, or AA' or A'A'. The second of these is genetically equivalent to the parent plant, but the first and last effectively loses one of the grandparent's genes. By observation you would keep either AA or AA' variants as both being fiberless, but reject A'A' for having fiber. But you wouldn't know if you had AA or AA'. At some generation it would go to AA by chance (1/3 of the selectants are AA) and become fixed because A' would no longer be in the genetics anywhere. After that A would always pair with A.

To put it another way, 100% of the child's genetics comes from the self-crossed parent, but 100% of the parent's genetics is NOT preserved in the child. There's always gene variants being lost (going homozygous to one of the grandparent's versions). That's what 'sets' the traits. Eventually it happens to all the genes (after 7 generations of selecting for desired characteristics is the rule of thumb). At that point instead of having AA'/BB'/CC'/DD' etc., you have AA/BB/CC/DD with largely identical offspring and the only diversity is created from rarer genetic events.

Anyway, its a fascinating aspect of plant breeding that isn't always clear.

Hey Shane, thanks for diving in deeper in regards to mango genetics. I haven’t paid much attention to the mango genome but but your explanation makes sense. When a mango is selfed, it can have any rearrangement of the genes that is already encoded in the parents genetics which will include the parents parent which will be different for both the paternal and maternal parent.

I agree that some traits can be multi allelic traits which requires multiple copies of specific genes which is much more complicated than a simple dominant recessive trait.

Simon
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: simon_grow on October 16, 2020, 02:40:44 PM
Guava seed has 5 sprouts coming out
(https://i.postimg.cc/684z1Mn3/20201015-093836.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/684z1Mn3)

Seed from this guava mango
(https://i.postimg.cc/nj1CVtbL/20200913-210654.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/nj1CVtbL)

At first, thought  seed was mono

(https://i.postimg.cc/fJdQYfyc/20200913-213245.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/fJdQYfyc)

(https://i.postimg.cc/3yScskWr/20200913-210736.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/3yScskWr)

(https://i.postimg.cc/9rCYBWFL/20200915-232653.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/9rCYBWFL)

(https://i.postimg.cc/Jsh39PXJ/20200915-232725.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Jsh39PXJ)

(https://i.postimg.cc/JGxc69sM/20200918-100825.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JGxc69sM)

Hey Max, did the fruit taste like Guava? This thread has people saying that it’s monoembryonic and polyembryonic. Perhaps this is one of those varieties that is Polyembryonic but sometimes throws mono seeds? http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=15929.msg368142#msg368142 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=15929.msg368142#msg368142)

Simon
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: roblack on October 16, 2020, 02:41:26 PM
...so, people growing polyembryonic seeds of named mangoes DO NOT actually have the exact same fruit tree as the named cultivars.
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: fruit4me on October 16, 2020, 05:24:49 PM
@Simon
I did not taste any guava flavor. To me, the flavor reminds me of the kesar mango. Love this tree for the Indian flavor profile and the vigorous growth it has. Flowers and sets fruit very well too. If your into kesars and Alponsos, I think this is a very good alternative for growing in SoCal.

Max
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: Future on October 16, 2020, 05:36:05 PM
Guava seed has 5 sprouts coming out
(https://i.postimg.cc/684z1Mn3/20201015-093836.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/684z1Mn3)

Seed from this guava mango
(https://i.postimg.cc/nj1CVtbL/20200913-210654.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/nj1CVtbL)

At first, thought  seed was mono

(https://i.postimg.cc/fJdQYfyc/20200913-213245.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/fJdQYfyc)

(https://i.postimg.cc/3yScskWr/20200913-210736.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/3yScskWr)

(https://i.postimg.cc/9rCYBWFL/20200915-232653.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/9rCYBWFL)

(https://i.postimg.cc/Jsh39PXJ/20200915-232725.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Jsh39PXJ)

(https://i.postimg.cc/JGxc69sM/20200918-100825.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JGxc69sM)

It is mono. With paradoxical multiple sprouts.  It happens
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: fliptop on October 16, 2020, 07:38:13 PM
...so, people growing polyembryonic seeds of named mangoes DO NOT actually have the exact same fruit tree as the named cultivars.

That's what I was thinking after reading shaneatwell's post, roblack. I guess I'm waiting to see how close the polyembryonic seedlings' fruits are to the parent or if they're different enough to get a new name.
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: Tropical Bay Area on October 16, 2020, 08:44:58 PM
This is my mono embryonic mango seedling  which is 9 weeks old. It came from a Keitt mango and I have yet to see any fruit.
The second one is also a keitt mango which was poly embryonic but ironically, the leaves look quite different. Than a typical mango tree let alone a keitt. To be honest, I think the mono embryonic one is going to produce more true to type.
(https://i.postimg.cc/DSJ2bSFd/image.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/DSJ2bSFd)

(https://i.postimg.cc/MfpwZTdB/image.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/MfpwZTdB)
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: simon_grow on October 16, 2020, 11:45:06 PM
...so, people growing polyembryonic seeds of named mangoes DO NOT actually have the exact same fruit tree as the named cultivars.

Hey Roblack, sort of. When you plant a seed from a Polyembryonic mango, you can get a clone or the zygotic seedling. The Zygotic seedling will be genetically different so it will have a different genotype and the phenotype will likely be different as well.

The clone should have identical or near identical genetics so it should have the same genotype and phenotype although there may also be other factors such as genetic drift.

Simon
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: simon_grow on October 16, 2020, 11:48:43 PM
@Simon
I did not taste any guava flavor. To me, the flavor reminds me of the kesar mango. Love this tree for the Indian flavor profile and the vigorous growth it has. Flowers and sets fruit very well too. If your into kesars and Alponsos, I think this is a very good alternative for growing in SoCal.

Max

Thanks Max, that’s good to know. I’ll add this to my list. There’s an Indian mango called Rajapuri that actually has a strong guava flavor. It’s a large mango, sweet and also has tropical fruit punch flavors.

Simon
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: simon_grow on October 17, 2020, 12:15:12 AM
I forgot to mention that when my Sweet tart Seedling #2 fruit came off in my hand, it leaked some clear sap that had a very strong Indochinese resin scent. The fruit is turning a bit more yellow and it will probably be ripe tomorrow or the day after. I’ll report back once I cut it open.

Simon
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: fruit4me on October 17, 2020, 01:54:13 AM
I fruited a seedling sweet tart for the first time off my seedling tree and off my aunt's manila tree that I grafted onto. The seedling tree  itself  produced around  15 decent size fruits. It tasted very similar to the original. Fruit was just smaller. The seed was from the mango tasting at Gary's house in Palm Springs from way back when. It was in a pot until two years ago.

Original ST on left, seedling on the right
(https://i.postimg.cc/CB4kNKZT/20200821-080056.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/CB4kNKZT) 


Seedling sweet tart grafted onto manila holding  7 fruits on the small graft. You can still see the graft union on the bottom.
(https://i.postimg.cc/1VhRf0Ry/20200730-100257.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/1VhRf0Ry)

Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: chris1 on October 17, 2020, 07:03:37 AM
I fruited a seedling sweet tart for the first time off my seedling tree and off my aunt's manila tree that I grafted onto. The seedling tree  itself  produced around  15 decent size fruits. It tasted very similar to the original. Fruit was just smaller. The seed was from the mango tasting at Gary's house in Palm Springs from way back when. It was in a pot until two years ago.

Original ST on left, seedling on the right
(https://i.postimg.cc/CB4kNKZT/20200821-080056.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/CB4kNKZT) 


Seedling sweet tart grafted onto manila holding  7 fruits on the small graft. You can still see the graft union on the bottom.
(https://i.postimg.cc/1VhRf0Ry/20200730-100257.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/1VhRf0Ry)


Do you by chance have a picture of the entire seedling tree? Also how old is the seedling and was this it’s first year fruiting? Thanks!
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: fruit4me on October 17, 2020, 11:00:23 AM
Chris1
I don't  remember  exactly how old the tree is. Guessing 5 or 6 years old. The tree flowered  last year but wasn't able to hold  any  fruits. This is the first  year  holding  fruits.
Here's  the seedling tree
(https://i.postimg.cc/FYqNL0Nd/20201017-072040.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/FYqNL0Nd)
Picture of the leafs pruned back after harvest
(https://i.postimg.cc/xq0Dq6Mp/20201017-072214.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/xq0Dq6Mp)

New leaf
(https://i.postimg.cc/GHWXTp63/20201017-072521.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/GHWXTp63)
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: roblack on October 17, 2020, 02:04:43 PM
...so, people growing polyembryonic seeds of named mangoes DO NOT actually have the exact same fruit tree as the named cultivars.

Hey Roblack, sort of. When you plant a seed from a Polyembryonic mango, you can get a clone or the zygotic seedling. The Zygotic seedling will be genetically different so it will have a different genotype and the phenotype will likely be different as well.

The clone should have identical or near identical genetics so it should have the same genotype and phenotype although there may also be other factors such as genetic drift.

Simon

I'm starting to get it, thanks Simon! Slight variations of preferred cultivars are of interest to me.

As for another's post re: guava mango; of the ones I've tasted, most had a distinct guava taste to them. Not a typical Indian mango. Different from Kesar or Alphonso.


Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: simon_grow on October 17, 2020, 11:06:27 PM
This is my mono embryonic mango seedling  which is 9 weeks old. It came from a Keitt mango and I have yet to see any fruit.
The second one is also a keitt mango which was poly embryonic but ironically, the leaves look quite different. Than a typical mango tree let alone a keitt. To be honest, I think the mono embryonic one is going to produce more true to type.
(https://i.postimg.cc/DSJ2bSFd/image.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/DSJ2bSFd)

(https://i.postimg.cc/MfpwZTdB/image.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/MfpwZTdB)

Keitt should be monoembryonic. Sometimes monoembryonic mango varieties can sprout multiple sprouts from a single seed but they usually have a single point of origin with a single root system.

Polyembryonic mango sprouts will have multiple sprouts but each sprout will have its own set of roots although some of the seedlings may have multiple tops.

Simon
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: simon_grow on October 17, 2020, 11:15:47 PM
I fruited a seedling sweet tart for the first time off my seedling tree and off my aunt's manila tree that I grafted onto. The seedling tree  itself  produced around  15 decent size fruits. It tasted very similar to the original. Fruit was just smaller. The seed was from the mango tasting at Gary's house in Palm Springs from way back when. It was in a pot until two years ago.

Original ST on left, seedling on the right
(https://i.postimg.cc/CB4kNKZT/20200821-080056.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/CB4kNKZT) 


Seedling sweet tart grafted onto manila holding  7 fruits on the small graft. You can still see the graft union on the bottom.
(https://i.postimg.cc/1VhRf0Ry/20200730-100257.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/1VhRf0Ry)

Max, this is awesome! I’m especially interested in Sweet Tart and other top tier Polyembryonic seedlings.
Do you happen to remember which seedling you kept? Was it the more vigorous or less vigorous seedling from the seed?

If we consistently find that either the more vigorous or less vigorous seedling is the clone, that will help out a lot of the mango growers out there.

Simon
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: simon_grow on October 18, 2020, 12:27:34 AM
Here is an E4 seedling. I planted out several E4 seeds and some came up with multiple sprouts but this seed only had a single sprout come up. It was planted about June-July of last year and is growing very well. It is currently 43 inches tall but has a new vegetative flush pushing right now.
(https://i.postimg.cc/Lgtxfcqf/38760-A28-3-E6-F-4-AC7-9-A7-D-754-C074-CECD2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Lgtxfcqf)

(https://i.postimg.cc/d7fNKmP7/4-CA8-ABAA-FA4-C-46-E0-BED1-E47-BBECFCE18.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/d7fNKmP7)

(https://i.postimg.cc/XpWH3Yhg/FB66-CB88-D31-F-4-A15-BED6-3-BEB40-AFF769.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/XpWH3Yhg)
Simon
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: fruit4me on October 18, 2020, 01:51:26 AM

Max, this is awesome! I’m especially interested in Sweet Tart and other top tier Polyembryonic seedlings.
Do you happen to remember which seedling you kept? Was it the more vigorous or less vigorous seedling from the seed?

If we consistently find that either the more vigorous or less vigorous seedling is the clone, that will help out a lot of the mango growers out there.

Simon
[/quote]

I kept the most vigorous seedling because it was the only one that survived. It had three seedlings total from one seed.  I tried separating the three seedlings. But, the two smaller ones didn’t make it.
Max
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: fruit4me on October 18, 2020, 02:09:20 AM
Here is an E4 seedling. I planted out several E4 seeds and some came up with multiple sprouts but this seed only had a single sprout come up. It was planted about June-July of last year and is growing very well. It is currently 43 inches tall but has a new vegetative flush pushing right now.
(https://i.postimg.cc/Lgtxfcqf/38760-A28-3-E6-F-4-AC7-9-A7-D-754-C074-CECD2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Lgtxfcqf)

(https://i.postimg.cc/d7fNKmP7/4-CA8-ABAA-FA4-C-46-E0-BED1-E47-BBECFCE18.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/d7fNKmP7)

(https://i.postimg.cc/XpWH3Yhg/FB66-CB88-D31-F-4-A15-BED6-3-BEB40-AFF769.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/XpWH3Yhg)
Simon

Wow! If this was my tree and I have the space, I let it get as big as it wants. Love growth on that thing. This is what I love about growing vigorous seedlings. No worrying about getting die backs.

Max
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: simon_grow on October 19, 2020, 06:09:48 PM
Here’s a thread of a mango seedling from my friend Margot:
http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=21350.msg261001#msg261001 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=21350.msg261001#msg261001)

Many growers out there have already fruited their seed grown mango trees. Leo Manuel has many great tasting and productive varieties that he has named as well.

Simon
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: simon_grow on October 19, 2020, 10:08:35 PM
I just cut up my Sweet Tart seedling #2 fruit and it was super good! It tastes exactly like the real Sweet Tart and it had a Brix of 26%. This came from a two foot tall tree with approximately 80 leaves. The flesh was a deep orange color and it leaked a lot of juice when cut. I ate this fruit maybe a day or two too late because it was overly sweet and I wanted additional acidity to balance it out. I did have a couple bites where there was good acidity.

Max grew out his largest Sweet Tart seedling and said his fruit tasted like the real Sweet Tart. This is my smaller seedling and it tastes identical to the real Sweet Tart. I’ll probably allow my larger Sweet Tart Seedling #1 to hold a fruit next year to see if it also makes identical fruit compared to the real Sweet Tart.

(https://i.postimg.cc/jWQ5qbt7/1-A28632-D-612-C-4777-B7-F5-353-C1-E2080-EF.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/jWQ5qbt7)

(https://i.postimg.cc/SJJJ637B/6-CD627-F1-70-E5-4-B6-A-BEBD-260057-EE00-A9.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/SJJJ637B)

(https://i.postimg.cc/8JpCj0zn/AC52385-C-50-F7-452-D-8541-5087-DF05-BCE9.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/8JpCj0zn)

(https://i.postimg.cc/B8GbG693/EAD4-B87-F-C3-F7-4-F79-A8-EB-43-B7-D7-DF6789.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/B8GbG693)
This fruit had a very small seed as you can see in the picture

Simon
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: simon_grow on October 21, 2020, 01:12:06 PM
Here is an Orange Sherbet seedling. I’m sure I posted a picture of this tree when it was smaller but I don’t recall where I posted it. An animal knocked off the tag so I don’t have the exact date it was planted but I’m guessing it’s around 3-4 years old. It is about 5.5 feet tall and about 5 feet wide at the widest point. The crushed young leaves smell very citrusy. This is an extremely vigorous grower.


(https://i.postimg.cc/HrGhFZJZ/A8-B747-D0-F06-E-45-EF-946-F-F41-CCC117-CBA.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/HrGhFZJZ)

(https://i.postimg.cc/vxg0NfGw/AEDE443-B-F80-D-42-E7-9-C7-C-6679317243-B7.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/vxg0NfGw)
Simon
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: SHV on March 03, 2021, 02:40:17 PM
Question regarding genetic variation in monoembryonic mango seedlings:
If you plant a monoembryonic mango seed from a fruit that was born in an orchard with homogeneous genetics, say the large Keitt or Kent mango orchards in Mexico or CA, how significant will the genetic variation be in the seedling tree when compared with the parent tree.  Will you pretty much get a Kent mango if both parents are Kents?
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: roblack on March 03, 2021, 07:55:08 PM
Growing a few seedlings. 2 volunteer Glenns (mono) in ground; Lemon Zest (poly), Z20 (mono), Ceci Love (mono), Sweet Tart (poly), and maybe one or 2 others all in pots for now. I believe they are all from last season. Lemon Zest is growing tall fast.

Gave away a cluster of Orange Sherbets sprouting from one seed. Vigorous. 

Manalita threw up several sprouts as well. Grew fast, but not nearly as vigorous as LZ and OS. Gave that cluster away too.
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: Oncorhynchus on March 03, 2021, 09:51:40 PM
Question regarding genetic variation in monoembryonic mango seedlings:
If you plant a monoembryonic mango seed from a fruit that was born in an orchard with homogeneous genetics, say the large Keitt or Kent mango orchards in Mexico or CA, how significant will the genetic variation be in the seedling tree when compared with the parent tree.  Will you pretty much get a Kent mango if both parents are Kents?

There is some genetic shuffling that goes on during meiosis so no, you won’t get the same thing.  You will get something somewhat similar but there may be enough changes in flavor, fiber, size, etc that the fruit isn’t worth while.
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: Future on March 06, 2021, 12:02:45 PM
About 2010 I planted on of Dr. Campbell’s boys monoembryonic seedlings - Martian Pride. Today I noticed it’s first flowers.   
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: fliptop on March 06, 2021, 01:50:14 PM
Any pics, Future? What made you choose that seed to plant--taste/growth habit/etc.?
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: spaugh on March 06, 2021, 01:57:15 PM
Looks like many of the seedling trees are flowering here.  They only take 3-4 years to flower.  I wish they would go 5 or 6 before flowering to let them get a bit bigger.  But whatever its better than a grafted tree. 
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: simon_grow on March 08, 2021, 02:08:18 AM
Question regarding genetic variation in monoembryonic mango seedlings:
If you plant a monoembryonic mango seed from a fruit that was born in an orchard with homogeneous genetics, say the large Keitt or Kent mango orchards in Mexico or CA, how significant will the genetic variation be in the seedling tree when compared with the parent tree.  Will you pretty much get a Kent mango if both parents are Kents?

It would depend a lot on the genetics of that particular variety. If the gene pool is large and that particular monoembryonic variety selfed, you can have a plant that is completely different even though it was pollinated by itself.

If on the other hand you were growing a variety that was already selected for a particular trait or flavor profile over multiple generations, that monoembryonic variety, if selfed will likely yield an offspring that shows that trait or flavor profile.

Simon
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: simon_grow on March 08, 2021, 02:14:52 AM
Growing a few seedlings. 2 volunteer Glenns (mono) in ground; Lemon Zest (poly), Z20 (mono), Ceci Love (mono), Sweet Tart (poly), and maybe one or 2 others all in pots for now. I believe they are all from last season. Lemon Zest is growing tall fast.

Gave away a cluster of Orange Sherbets sprouting from one seed. Vigorous. 

Manalita threw up several sprouts as well. Grew fast, but not nearly as vigorous as LZ and OS. Gave that cluster away too.

Roblack,

Please keep us updated on the progress of your trees. I’m especially interested in the offspring of certain varieties I consider top tier such as Sweet Tart,Venus, Lemon Zest,Orange Sherbet, E4, M4, Pina Colada, Coconut Cream, Fruit Punch, Peach Cobbler, Pineapple Pleasure, Seacrest and many other top tier varieties.

Simon
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: simon_grow on March 08, 2021, 02:16:45 AM
About 2010 I planted on of Dr. Campbell’s boys monoembryonic seedlings - Martian Pride. Today I noticed it’s first flowers.

Yeah Future, let’s see some pics! How are the seedlings doing where your mom is at?

Simon
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: simon_grow on March 08, 2021, 02:20:40 AM
Looks like many of the seedling trees are flowering here.  They only take 3-4 years to flower.  I wish they would go 5 or 6 before flowering to let them get a bit bigger.  But whatever its better than a grafted tree.

Yeah, I wish they would grow several more years before flowering also but at least we will get to try out some of the fruit in the near future. The seedling trees grow so much better due to the lack of florigenic hormones for at least the first several years. The Sweet Tart seeeling was looking pretty good last time I stopped by. I’ll probably stop by again soon and take some pictures.

Simon
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: Future on March 08, 2021, 02:32:30 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/CdMxrWg6/FF54-F176-15-EE-454-E-A172-AC7840-BF894-C.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/CdMxrWg6)

Thanks Simon and fliptop.

No deep thought when I planted this one...


Grafted trees in Sierra Leone are doing well. At least one has flowered but getting good info has been tricky.   One thing for sure, once these fiber free sugar bombs fruit, West Africa will never be the same.
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: simon_grow on March 08, 2021, 08:19:02 PM
Looking good Future! I can’t wait to hear how the villagers react after eating a Zill mango.

On a side note, I’ve been neglecting my yard again and had to pay the piper today.

I had to cut off a 5-6 foot branch of my Orange Sherbet Seedling that was coming out at an odd angle. After I cut the branch off, I noticed it has its first blooms on a couple of its smaller side branches.

(https://i.postimg.cc/1fb9yvhW/4-A6-C3-B74-B132-4-A31-A976-8-DB891-BE994-D.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/1fb9yvhW)

(https://i.postimg.cc/r0qVvzXM/8-BC5663-E-5-B50-4-AFD-9257-57-FF1492884-A.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/r0qVvzXM)

(https://i.postimg.cc/hfXDFHwz/B41-FC21-E-870-C-42-EB-87-D3-EBECD85081-AE.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hfXDFHwz)

(https://i.postimg.cc/G8zLrrdY/BF24-B288-5118-4-FE1-A1-AB-78-DDC10-C438-A.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/G8zLrrdY)
Simon
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: simon_grow on March 09, 2021, 12:09:02 AM
Just noticed today that my E4 Seedling_Front yard has small blooms forming on it. This E4 seedling was grafted onto my multigraft tree.
(https://i.postimg.cc/QBc5Q6rC/0-BAD9813-FB58-4-CA4-9977-F8-A7-C1587682.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/QBc5Q6rC)

(https://i.postimg.cc/hXkTQk6N/BE22-C916-E078-49-C8-8-D23-DC3-DD0-E88224.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hXkTQk6N)

The scion came from a seedling that was growing in a pot. The original tree is either at Brad’s orchard or given to another friend.

Simon
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: fliptop on July 24, 2021, 10:58:39 AM
This Pickering seedling is forming multiple trunks.

(https://i.postimg.cc/8FktXkBF/20210713-180117-1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/8FktXkBF)
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: simon_grow on July 25, 2021, 12:20:36 AM
I would just remove those lower growths to allow the main trunk to get stronger. The low branching can pull a lot of energy from the tree and it will be more difficult to fertilize, mow and weed if you keep those branches. Please keep us updated on the Pickering seedling. I’m very interested in how all the seedlings turn out!

Simon
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: ppk on August 06, 2021, 11:28:29 AM
This forum and thread are fun to browse and read and have inspired me to try to grow mangoes. I live in the Bay Area (CA). I want to grow some rootstock and my research has pointed me to growing a manila from seed and then grafting on to it. Unfortunately, I don't see any manila mangoes for sale right now in the stores. I have also read that ataulfo is a manila derivative native to Mexico. What are people's thoughts on growing ataulfo seedlings and grafting on to them? They could be better than manila for the Bay Area if they are adapted to Mexico's climate.

Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: mangoba on August 06, 2021, 08:42:48 PM
Just noticed today that my E4 Seedling_Front yard has small blooms forming on it. This E4 seedling was grafted onto my multigraft tree.
(https://i.postimg.cc/QBc5Q6rC/0-BAD9813-FB58-4-CA4-9977-F8-A7-C1587682.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/QBc5Q6rC)

(https://i.postimg.cc/hXkTQk6N/BE22-C916-E078-49-C8-8-D23-DC3-DD0-E88224.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hXkTQk6N)

The scion came from a seedling that was growing in a pot. The original tree is either at Brad’s orchard or given to another friend.

Simon

Simon, what's up with the leaf burn and discolorations?
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: simon_grow on August 07, 2021, 10:39:02 AM
I believe it was due to cold weather. The rest of the tree looks fine and only this graft looks like that.

Simon
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: JoeP450 on August 07, 2021, 03:27:49 PM
Dig this thread Cali is going to be the next generator of new mango cultivars give time and momentum. 👍


-joe
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: Victoria Ave on August 07, 2021, 10:12:33 PM
Not my tree but I've kept my eye on it for years as it is near my grandparents. I stopped to look and take pictures today and saw a lady come out and and I engaged her about her tree. Tree is 15 feet tall and she said she planted it from a seed from the store 8 years ago.

The soil is nearly pure sand, and it is very windy and very hot. No cover and very impressive. She gave me some fruit and it is still a bit firm so I'm letting it ripen a bit. But they look shockingly like small Valencia prides I harvested a couple years ago

Location: San Bernardino


(https://i.postimg.cc/r0hF1Nbd/20210807-154956.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/r0hF1Nbd)

(https://i.postimg.cc/Jtnh1SDj/20210807-155120.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Jtnh1SDj)

(https://i.postimg.cc/14j34Mw2/20210807-190542.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/14j34Mw2)
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: UplanderCA on August 09, 2021, 09:27:23 PM
This forum and thread are fun to browse and read and have inspired me to try to grow mangoes. I live in the Bay Area (CA). I want to grow some rootstock and my research has pointed me to growing a manila from seed and then grafting on to it. Unfortunately, I don't see any manila mangoes for sale right now in the stores. I have also read that ataulfo is a manila derivative native to Mexico. What are people's thoughts on growing ataulfo seedlings and grafting on to them? They could be better than manila for the Bay Area if they are adapted to Mexico's climate.

Thanks in advance.


Ataulfo is a very good seedling for So Cal based on various threads on the forum.  I just planted two 2-month old Ataulfo seedlings on the ground.  I just repotted another two month old seedling.  The Ataulfo seedlings outgrow the 6" deep pots fast.  You need to repot them if you don't plant them after 2-months.   One thing that I have noticed is that Ataulfo has vigorous root growth with a tap root.

2-month old Ataulfo Seedling from a 6"deep pot with tap root

(https://i.postimg.cc/Ff7GpPyd/IMG-0596-1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Ff7GpPyd)



2-month old Ataulfo Repotted

(https://i.postimg.cc/grdtFKd5/IMG-0600-1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/grdtFKd5)


2-month old Ataulfo Seedling on the ground

(https://i.postimg.cc/nj1kc6ZW/IMG-0594-1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/nj1kc6ZW)


The true test will be to see if they survive a few winters on the ground.

Cheers
Tony
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: zands on August 10, 2021, 03:50:05 AM
@Simon

How did those Fairchild mango seeds turn out for California? I had a theory about them. That the seed is so large compared to the flesh. Means it is more primitive. So will be a good burrower for California clay. A good strong root stock in general. If I get lots of Fairchild fruits next year I will sell seeds at decent price.

I think all grafted variety mangoes.... with Large seed.... try it out for root stock or as a seedling mango tree. How about religiously fertilizing seedling mango trees to bring them to fruiting sooner? Also grafting onto it a second root stock, down at the base? (beyond my skills)

How about planting two seeds very closely in one pot. When young say less than 12" high. You clip one and graft it onto  your better one? Making a tree with two root systems.

Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: ppk on August 10, 2021, 11:25:06 AM
Thank you for the pictures and the encouragement. I'm going to try to grow 6 seedlings (I bought a set of 6 organic ataulfos from Costco) for rootstock for next year.

This forum and thread are fun to browse and read and have inspired me to try to grow mangoes. I live in the Bay Area (CA). I want to grow some rootstock and my research has pointed me to growing a manila from seed and then grafting on to it. Unfortunately, I don't see any manila mangoes for sale right now in the stores. I have also read that ataulfo is a manila derivative native to Mexico. What are people's thoughts on growing ataulfo seedlings and grafting on to them? They could be better than manila for the Bay Area if they are adapted to Mexico's climate.

Thanks in advance.


Ataulfo is a very good seedling for So Cal based on various threads on the forum.  I just planted two 2-month old Ataulfo seedlings on the ground.  I just repotted another two month old seedling.  The Ataulfo seedlings outgrow the 6" deep pots fast.  You need to repot them if you don't plant them after 2-months.   One thing that I have noticed is that Ataulfo has vigorous root growth with a tap root.

2-month old Ataulfo Seedling from a 6"deep pot with tap root

(https://i.postimg.cc/Ff7GpPyd/IMG-0596-1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Ff7GpPyd)



2-month old Ataulfo Repotted

(https://i.postimg.cc/grdtFKd5/IMG-0600-1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/grdtFKd5)


2-month old Ataulfo Seedling on the ground

(https://i.postimg.cc/nj1kc6ZW/IMG-0594-1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/nj1kc6ZW)


The true test will be to see if they survive a few winters on the ground.

Cheers
Tony
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: simon_grow on August 10, 2021, 09:00:35 PM
@Simon

How did those Fairchild mango seeds turn out for California? I had a theory about them. That the seed is so large compared to the flesh. Means it is more primitive. So will be a good burrower for California clay. A good strong root stock in general. If I get lots of Fairchild fruits next year I will sell seeds at decent price.

I think all grafted variety mangoes.... with Large seed.... try it out for root stock or as a seedling mango tree. How about religiously fertilizing seedling mango trees to bring them to fruiting sooner? Also grafting onto it a second root stock, down at the base? (beyond my skills)

How about planting two seeds very closely in one pot. When young say less than 12" high. You clip one and graft it onto  your better one? Making a tree with two root systems.

Hey Zands, the Fairchild seeds grew fine but I grafted them too early so they bloom as soon as it gets cold and then it goes downhill from there.

Innarching two seedlings together creates a vigorous tree as long as the rootstocks are decent to begin with. You just have to make sure not to graft mature scions onto the innarched seedlings.

Simon
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: simon_grow on September 01, 2021, 04:57:08 PM
Here is a fruit from my Sweet Tart Seedling #1. There are several fruit on this small tree and it was the more vigorous of two polyembryonic seedlings that sprouted from a single Sweet Tart seed. This is the first fruit that ripened from this tree and it has an odd shape and color.

It is very skinny and has a deep orange color. There is another fruit from this same tree that more closely resembles the true Sweet Tart except it is very large, maybe a pound or more. I’ll report back once I cut open this runt of a fruit.
(https://i.postimg.cc/CzcrnTwG/00-FB7-AD7-C6-B4-454-B-8429-EBE361-D35-E53.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/CzcrnTwG)

(https://i.postimg.cc/hfD3GPR4/B428-AB59-BAC1-491-B-BCB4-F11867716-AA1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hfD3GPR4)

(https://i.postimg.cc/DmKMtPCX/E9-F773-C3-1835-42-B6-BAF9-91479772-CA37.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/DmKMtPCX)
Simon
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: simon_grow on September 01, 2021, 04:58:28 PM
Here is a picture of the much larger fruit still bagged.

(https://i.postimg.cc/HVn4KJCM/BF56-AB00-DBF6-4372-9-D9-C-795-A85417977.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/HVn4KJCM)
Simon
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: simon_grow on September 01, 2021, 05:31:06 PM
That first fruit is 6 and 5/8 oz
(https://i.postimg.cc/kVyDycDd/44-ED9-AB1-A8-D3-4-E65-84-E3-44-B1-D46-C3378.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/kVyDycDd)

(https://i.postimg.cc/wtz7JPqV/ACD19-BDC-E38-C-44-A1-AC82-84-D378-B55-FA1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/wtz7JPqV)
Simon
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: roblack on September 01, 2021, 07:05:33 PM
Can't wait to hear report on seedling ST flavor, texture, etc.

Considering planting in ground either Z20 or Ceci Love seedlings that are growing well. Pretty sure they are both monoembryonic, which makes it all the more exciting. Both are over a year old now, and about waste high or so. Crushed leaves of both of these smell interesting.
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: sapote on September 01, 2021, 08:53:24 PM
Not my tree but I've kept my eye on it for years as it is near my grandparents. I stopped to look and take pictures today and saw a lady come out and and I engaged her about her tree. Tree is 15 feet tall and she said she planted it from a seed from the store 8 years ago.

Ripen fruit looks like Valencia but too small. The tree for sure is not a La Vern HD variety. This tree needs top work for grafting better varieties.
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: sapote on September 01, 2021, 09:14:38 PM
Here is a fruit from my Sweet Tart Seedling #1.

Hey Simon,

Congrats on the fruiting seedling!

As about grafting on seedlings, do you find the trees that had been grafts when they were small (not mature fruiting seedlings) will ended up with droopy branches like graft trees from FL? I have a theory that not just graft trees from FL, if we graft matured scions on young seedling trees then they did not develop well and with weak root system, resulting droopy branches.

I have 2 unknow seedling (probably Kent or Ataulfo) that I grafted with Maha when they were about 24" tall, 6 or 7 years ago. Now for the first time they hold the fruits but the trees are droopy with the trunks only around 1.5" dia. If I had let them grow to 10 ft tall and held fruits, then top work and graft then now they are in much better shape.
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: simon_grow on September 01, 2021, 11:35:11 PM
Yes Sapote, do not graft young trees with mature scions but it is ok to graft young trees with immature seedling scions that have not flowered.

My experiments grafting seedling scions onto young or mature rootstock has been 120% absolutely positive.

My E4 seedling grafted into random seedling rootstocks grew about 3-4 feet in one season
(https://i.postimg.cc/9zpPptTB/9-F8-E28-BA-3-CF8-4500-851-A-7-EF81061-F788.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/9zpPptTB)

(https://i.postimg.cc/dZtyXpdj/23-D0-E7-DC-E216-4-A1-F-908-F-65-F157-CD0588.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/dZtyXpdj)

My Special vigorous selection of Pina Colada seedling grafted onto mature rootstock grew approximately 20-30 branches and several feet tall and wide in one season
(https://i.postimg.cc/Yjh2ntLy/5-ABCF7-DB-1-E20-4-CF2-B35-D-0364-E1-A8-A958.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Yjh2ntLy)

(https://i.postimg.cc/DJzfKTj0/6-BB0472-F-8-DBC-44-D2-94-CE-AC27-BC0-D93-CD.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/DJzfKTj0)
Simon
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: simon_grow on September 01, 2021, 11:43:50 PM
The Polyembryonic seedlings left on their own rootstocks also grow like crazy. For my yard, the crazy fast growers have been seedlings of E4, Orange Sherbet, Lemon Zest, PPK, NDM, CAC and Sweet Tart.

Here’s my Orange Sherbet Seedling after removing two huge branches. It’s about 6 feet tall and just as wide because there’s another huge branch bending over from the weight of all the growths.

(https://i.postimg.cc/xN04Zftp/E7-AD0287-EEE8-487-F-B1-F5-8-C5-D56323-B96.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/xN04Zftp)

And this young E4 seedling is already about 6 feet tall and just starting to branch out it’s scaffold branches

(https://i.postimg.cc/HcTzYSXV/B9-CBC04-D-3981-4-F94-858-E-964650-EAF7-C6.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/HcTzYSXV)

(https://i.postimg.cc/yJmnzqJM/BCF8-A12-E-37-DD-4-C62-B389-7-AFC43-E20657.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/yJmnzqJM)
Simon
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: sapote on September 02, 2021, 02:47:01 AM
And this young E4 seedling is already about 6 feet tall and just starting to branch out it’s scaffold branches

(https://i.postimg.cc/yJmnzqJM/BCF8-A12-E-37-DD-4-C62-B389-7-AFC43-E20657.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/yJmnzqJM)
Simon

Yes, scaffold branches is the sight of having flower within the next 2 years.

On grafting with young (not having fruits yet) scions, is it a gamble with those unknown scions? (I know that they are poly-embryonic seedlings but still risky?)

Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: simon_grow on September 02, 2021, 11:39:33 AM
Yes, it’s a bit of a gamble that you didn’t select the clone but in my case, I want the zygotic seedling more than the clone because I’m hoping to get lucky with a new variety that will produce fruit that is better than the parent.

Polyembryonic seedlings have at least 50% of the parent variety genetics and there is the possibility that the Zygotic embryo was selfed meaning that it was pollinated by itself. Even if it was crossed by itself, that doesn’t mean it is a clone even though 100% of its genes are from the parent variety because there was a re arrangement of its genetics.

If the clone was not selected, the zygotic seedling wether selfed or crossed with another variety, has the potential to create something unique but retain some of the attributes from the parent genetics.

I have been Growing out a bunch of Pina Colada and E4 seedlings in hopes of finding a Pina Colada seedling that is more disease resistant and grows more vigorously here in San Diego and I also hope to find an E4 seedling that has less fiber but similar taste to the real E4.

I am also hoping to get lucky with an Orange Sherbet seedling that will produce at my location. So far, the PPK lineage has performed poorly at my location because of its horrible disease resistance, especially towards Powdery Mildew. I planted out about 30 Orange Sherbet seedlings and selected the few plants with the strongest orange scent in the sap, I just hope my seedling selection is more disease resistant otherwise it will be a candidate for topworking.

Simon

Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: gnappi on September 02, 2021, 02:19:34 PM

I have a Julie seedling which I got from the owner of the Julie parent tree. The owner planted the seed in a half wooden staved barrel and with the barrel rotting she pulled the 6' seedling from the ground and snapped the tap root. I got it home in 2012 and gave it a lot of care until it settled in and could survive without the tap root.

1) It is it Polyembryonic or Monoembryonic?
Monoembryonic

2) How long did it take the seedling to fruit(include location)?
After planting ~5 years.

3) Growth habits of the tree, especially compared to maternal parent tree
Medium size, I've never trimmed it. When I picked my seedling up, the parent was 15+ years old and was not much (if any) larger than mine is now.

4) Track production of the tree as it grows
She (Now called Juicy Lucy) produces so much fruit I have to abort some of it to keep branches from snapping. Over the years production increases proportionally to its size

5) If it’s a Polyembryonic seedling:
N/A

Notes on the tree and fruit

Fruit: They are smallish  (likely helped due to it bearing so much fruit) , have a typical Julie nose (a few have GINORMOUS noses), the fruits are a vibrant pink and orange when ripe and they are sweet and mostly fiberless.

Tree: Medium growth habit, spreading more than vertical. NO typical fungal issues as with Julie parent.  I have grafted this one several  times, so far all report it to be extremely prolific, and the fruit matches those of my Juicy Lucy.




Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: simon_grow on September 04, 2021, 01:45:14 AM
Gary, thanks for the report! The tree sounds awesome and better than the parent because of its disease resistance and productivity. Sounds like you may have already shared some scionsso that’s great news, just in case something happens to the parent tree.

I don’t know if you attend any mango tastings but it could be fun to bring some of your fruit to a tasting to see how it stacks up to other varieties and see how others describe the taste. If the fruit is really well received, it could be the next big mango.

Simon
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: fliptop on September 05, 2021, 06:10:27 PM
I soon will know if these sprouts are a result of my first ever polyembryonic Pickering seed or a bunch of sprouts out of a single tap root. I planted the entire husk, so I never looked at the actual seed.
(https://i.postimg.cc/1frWswLx/20210905-174956-HDR-1-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/1frWswLx)
Maybe this has been answered before and I forgot . . . if a monoembryonic mango flower gets pollinated by polyembryonic mango pollen, could the mango produced be polyembryonic?
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: simon_grow on September 06, 2021, 03:45:14 PM
Fliptop, I don’t know the answer to your question but I would guess it’s possible.

I cut open the first fruit from my Sweet Tart Seedling #1, which was a runt/nubbin, and it tastes like a Sweet Tart that is over ripe because well, it was over ripe. It would have been best if I cut it open maybe two days ago but I wanted to make sure it was fully ripe. It looked super orange outside and it smelled very sweet.

When I cut it open, it was a very deep orange color but I could tell it was over ripe already. I took a Brix reading and it came out to 19.1% Brix. I definitely over watered this trying to pump up its sisters size. There is another ST Seedling #1 fruit that has the typical ST shape except it’s probably 1lbs or more. Anyways, the fruit was over ripe and tasted sweet but completely lacked the Tartness that balances out the sugars. I give this fruit a 5 out of 10 because without the acidity, this mango doesn’t taste very good.

There was a bit of Indochinese flavor and at 19% Brix, it was sweet enough but even a slight bit of tartness would have significantly improved its eating quality.

There are more fruit on the tree and I’ll definitely report back on the much larger fruit.

I believe Brad has some fruit on the Sweet start seedlings we planted at his orchard as well.

Simon


(https://i.postimg.cc/GH2z18t0/02814143-5135-44-D0-8300-C857-CB9-A9-F8-E.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/GH2z18t0)

(https://i.postimg.cc/30r1NWZv/04078304-998-D-44-D6-9-E04-CC66-D09-E5082.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/30r1NWZv)

(https://i.postimg.cc/N5zDGs2K/13-D4-EB88-C728-4-D11-87-AF-1-F6-ABFDFC01-A.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/N5zDGs2K)

(https://i.postimg.cc/0zKfbT7c/B675-B690-5-A4-C-4-D22-8745-6-C10-C4-A90037.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/0zKfbT7c)
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: mangoba on September 07, 2021, 10:16:32 AM
Fliptop, I don’t know the answer to your question but I would guess it’s possible.

I cut open the first fruit from my Sweet Tart Seedling #1, which was a runt/nubbin, and it tastes like a Sweet Tart that is over ripe because well, it was over ripe. It would have been best if I cut it open maybe two days ago but I wanted to make sure it was fully ripe. It looked super orange outside and it smelled very sweet.

When I cut it open, it was a very deep orange color but I could tell it was over ripe already. I took a Brix reading and it came out to 19.1% Brix. I definitely over watered this trying to pump up its sisters size. There is another ST Seedling #1 fruit that has the typical ST shape except it’s probably 1lbs or more. Anyways, the fruit was over ripe and tasted sweet but completely lacked the Tartness that balances out the sugars. I give this fruit a 5 out of 10 because without the acidity, this mango doesn’t taste very good.

There was a bit of Indochinese flavor and at 19% Brix, it was sweet enough but even a slight bit of tartness would have significantly improved its eating quality.

There are more fruit on the tree and I’ll definitely report back on the much larger fruit.

I believe Brad has some fruit on the Sweet start seedlings we planted at his orchard as well.

Simon


(https://i.postimg.cc/GH2z18t0/02814143-5135-44-D0-8300-C857-CB9-A9-F8-E.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/GH2z18t0)

(https://i.postimg.cc/30r1NWZv/04078304-998-D-44-D6-9-E04-CC66-D09-E5082.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/30r1NWZv)

(https://i.postimg.cc/N5zDGs2K/13-D4-EB88-C728-4-D11-87-AF-1-F6-ABFDFC01-A.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/N5zDGs2K)

(https://i.postimg.cc/0zKfbT7c/B675-B690-5-A4-C-4-D22-8745-6-C10-C4-A90037.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/0zKfbT7c)

Well done Simon, if it has Indian genes, it's probably best when picked green, don't you think?
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: simon_grow on September 08, 2021, 02:24:12 PM
We don’t get as much heat in SoCal compared to some other mango growing areas so when picked green, our mangos won’t sweeten up properly. I try to let them hang on the tree as long as possible before picking to maximize the Sugars. My mistake was that I ate it over ripe and with the Sweet Tart variety, at least when grown in SoCal, the longer you let the fruit ripen on the counter, the lower the acid balance.

Simon
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: simon_grow on September 23, 2021, 11:13:23 AM
I picked the second and much larger Sweet Tart Seedling #1 about two weeks ago. It was 1lbs 3 oz and I was really hoping it would be decently sweet but it only came in at around 19% Brix. Again, the fruit was over ripened on the counter and the taste was just mediocre. It was mildly sweet but had no acid balance whatsoever so I was not impressed at all.

(https://i.postimg.cc/sM6rPv42/1-A28-EF6-D-6-DA6-4-C87-9-C70-4-D96-F67490-D8.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/sM6rPv42)

(https://i.postimg.cc/4Hgk4tsW/712-C3-B20-1502-47-EC-99-C4-D93774379-CA9.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/4Hgk4tsW)

(https://i.postimg.cc/B8Rfyky9/E8045-A19-A4-F3-48-C6-96-DF-F6-E30-C77158-B.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/B8Rfyky9)

(https://i.postimg.cc/dkdcKnP7/ECF89-DD0-672-E-419-E-99-DD-18-FA8-DB82-F21.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/dkdcKnP7)


Today, I walked past the Sweet Tart Seedling #1 tree and noticed that one of the nubbin fruit was starting to go bad on the nose end so I picked it. Instead of letting it ripen on the counter and potentially losing the acidity, I cut it open right away. This fruit was amazing and tastes just like a perfectly ripened true Sweet Tart. It was very sweet with excellent acid balance and perfect indochinese flavor.
(https://i.postimg.cc/23sF6Gpk/1380722-A-0130-4287-A50-D-2-C0-CE956-DBAE.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/23sF6Gpk)

(https://i.postimg.cc/XGXcZD7J/2-B30986-D-E74-F-4225-B4-DC-675-C5-C920-D0-A.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/XGXcZD7J)

(https://i.postimg.cc/G98xdN5g/38-F5-A603-7-BF2-4-A37-88-C4-0-FD232-CACB3-A.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/G98xdN5g)

(https://i.postimg.cc/vc576nMW/6-F1-BCFF9-2238-4-A34-A879-597435-A6-E5-E5.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/vc576nMW)

It seems like both my Sweet Tart Seedling #1, the more vigorous of the two sprouts, and Sweet Tart Seedling#2, are clones. One or both of them could be zygotic but the flavor is identical to real Sweet Tarts and I can’t tell the difference.
Simon
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: spaugh on September 23, 2021, 01:17:15 PM
Theres a few nice sized sweet tart seedling fruits here that are getting close Simon.  They are green but look like the color is starting to go yellow.
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: simon_grow on September 23, 2021, 02:21:30 PM
Awesome, let me know when you think they’re ready and I’ll stop by with the refractometer. I’m guessing they’ll be a Sweet Tart clone but one of these days, we may get lucky with an off type!

Simon
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: Future on September 23, 2021, 06:41:24 PM
Great updates Simon. And one day, to CA,  I’ll be back...
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: simon_grow on September 24, 2021, 12:37:59 AM
Great updates Simon. And one day, to CA,  I’ll be back...

Thanks Future! It’s been a long time since you’ve visited. You need to check out Brads awesome orchard, it’s paradise over there and it’s getting better each year. The seedling mango trees are starting to get established and we will be top working them probably next year but I’d love to leave a branch or two of each seedling to determine the fruit quality.

I’ve been very impressed with E4 and would love to grow out a bunch of E4 seedlings in the hopes that one day I’ll find an improved E4 seedling. Hit me up next time you’re in town and we can visit Leo also.

Simon
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: simon_grow on October 06, 2021, 02:12:12 PM
I picked a few overripe Sweet Tart Seedling #1 nubbin fruit last week and they were spectacular.
(https://i.postimg.cc/nMFd64TR/DCB5-D9-DC-16-C5-4870-896-A-6-DB518-B33-CC4.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/nMFd64TR)

(https://i.postimg.cc/7fbKLqFS/F7568-AA9-CD5-C-4-E9-A-977-A-5827-CE16-B25-A.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/7fbKLqFS)
Super sweet with an excellent acid balance. I’ve been sharing samples with friends at work and their minds were blown.

Simon
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: simon_grow on October 06, 2021, 02:17:09 PM
These Nubbins are consistently sweeter with more concentrated flavor compared to the full sized fruit with viable seeds. Another bonus is that the seed is aborted and ultra thin so more flesh to seed ratio. The negatives are the smaller size and the tendency for nubbin fruit to crack prematurely.

(https://i.postimg.cc/dDhCkD0Q/29928-C11-276-E-4568-A042-1-BB0494-D665-E.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/dDhCkD0Q)

(https://i.postimg.cc/6444DbP4/2-E11129-A-0737-403-B-ACDB-FB0-DBAD540-CB.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/6444DbP4)

(https://i.postimg.cc/LYbZQFxM/30035-AAD-1-F66-4-C0-C-9720-B2-F969-E26-E5-D.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/LYbZQFxM)

(https://i.postimg.cc/21QhkJS4/9235-B058-0967-4-A1-C-A871-218-B374-F13-D8.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/21QhkJS4)

Simon
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: simon_grow on October 06, 2021, 02:21:53 PM
Fully formed true Sweet Tart(grafted) next to a Sweet Tart Seedling #1 nubbin. The full sized fruit had a Brix of 26.4%
(https://i.postimg.cc/7f6qYTPX/2-FD85085-FA24-4464-92-E1-06-F4-B55-D999-B.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/7f6qYTPX)

(https://i.postimg.cc/Z9rSD8jY/C7187-D9-B-6-C0-C-4-E96-BD60-E12-B5269-B02-F.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Z9rSD8jY)
Simon
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: fliptop on October 06, 2021, 05:41:46 PM
The multiple-sprout Pickering seedling(s) I posted above died from the top down. I noticed one day all the leaves were brown. Then the stems. I pulled the plant out of the pot and there was one tap root, so the seed was not polyembryonic.
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: Johnny Eat Fruit on October 06, 2021, 07:56:32 PM
Simon,

Your description of the Sweet Tart nubbins is consistent with my eating experience with this fruit.

Just ate a larger standard sweet Tart fruit grown more inland in Alhambra and it was excellent with a viable seed which I am starting to germinate indoors. In contrast, the nubbins I had last month had even a more intense sweeter flavor with excellent complexity. Between the two the nubbins were superior in flavor and sweetness in my opinion. Just more supercharged and condensed. The nubbin sweet-tart fruit was much smaller in size though so there is a trade-off.

Johnny
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: simon_grow on October 13, 2021, 12:39:57 AM
Here is a seedling mango tree from one of my friends. The tree is seven years old and about 12 feet tall. It produced one fruit last year but this year, it set around 80 fruit and held onto about 40 fruit. Each fruit weighs over a pound and it is a Fairchild x Mallika.

The fruit is shaped like Mallika and I could smell some Indian Mango type resin. The flavor of this mango is very good! It has the flavor of Mallika when it is very good and the texture is smooth but holds up and doesn’t fall apart on you. There are hints of honey in this fruit and the flesh tasted slightly different depending on wether I was eating the slightly riper nose end or the slightly less ripe stem end.
This fruit had a Brix reading of 23.5 and 24.0% Brix.

The less ripe stem end had more Indian resin flavor and according to my palate, it tasted like a combination of Kesar, Banganpalle and Mallika. The nose end had significantly less Indian resin flavor and tasted more like Fairchild.

This fruit has a nice rich depth of flavor that was multi dimensional. I like this fruit better than both Fairchild and Mallika. <br />(https://i.ibb.co/2gYBG9R/7266952-D-45-FC-4616-A9-F8-4-ECBAC657-BA1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/2gYBG9R)<br /><br />(https://i.ibb.co/G5QwTW2/8879-CAB8-3-E14-4377-866-F-3-CC748-F7303-F.jpg) (https://ibb.co/G5QwTW2)<br /><br />(https://i.ibb.co/MNQPLyD/4-C3-D3787-F532-4-F41-B151-670-B7636468-E.jpg) (https://ibb.co/MNQPLyD)<br /><br />(https://i.ibb.co/wyYy3yB/BAA1058-B-28-D3-4207-AFA7-8-B5-BB4211-A0-B.jpg) (https://ibb.co/wyYy3yB)<br />
Simon
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: simon_grow on October 14, 2021, 12:06:44 AM
I just sampled the second Fairchild x Mallika today and this fruit was even better than the first one. It had a Brix of 25.0% and this fruit had more of that Kesar like sweetness and Indian resin compared to the first fruit.

This selection is definitely better than both its parents combined. Hopefully it grows and tastes just as good when grown elsewhere.

<br />(https://i.ibb.co/Y7fWN22/B8-A3119-F-3-C32-4086-8-EA3-5-D9039-F2-E94-A.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Y7fWN22)<br /><br />(https://i.ibb.co/pZHNz2t/40139-D7-D-F1-F0-41-CC-8-EB7-62-ADC565-EB12.jpg) (https://ibb.co/pZHNz2t)<br />
Simon
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: JoeP450 on October 14, 2021, 09:33:51 AM
Nice looks pretty too!

-joe
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: sapote on October 18, 2021, 09:03:14 PM
Simon,

What's the advantage of cutting the fruit that way, last pic?

Did he only have two mango trees in the yard -- how does he know it is the Hybridge of F x M?
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: simon_grow on October 19, 2021, 12:56:42 PM
Sapote, there was a bruise on the fruit so I cut it slanted to avoid the bruising.

The Fairchild was the obvious maternal parent because the fruit/seed came from a Fairchild fruit. The supposed pollen came from an educated guess from the taste of the fruit and also from the shape, color and proximity of the Mallika tree. When you taste the fruit, it’s very obvious it came from a Mallika.

My friend gave me samples from various other mango varieties including Mallika but the Mallikas were horrible with uneven ripening and some internal issues.

This variety seriously needs to be trialed in Florida and more locations in SoCal. Mallika can be extremely good but it is one of the most inconsistent variety in terms of fruit quality. Production wise, it is quite reliable but with this new variety, I would recommend everyone plant this new variety instead of Fairchild and Mallika.

Simon
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: mangoba on October 19, 2021, 04:38:31 PM
It looks very much like a Madame Francis

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/0d/3b/8c/0d3b8c7331f825a903b11f890b0f68dc.jpg)
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: sapote on October 19, 2021, 11:44:59 PM
The Fairchild was the obvious maternal parent because the fruit/seed came from a Fairchild fruit. The supposed pollen came from an educated guess from the taste of the fruit and also from the shape, color and proximity of the Mallika tree. When you taste the fruit, it’s very obvious it came from a Mallika.

Simon, this makes sense. I really like the Indian risen perfume.
7 years to hold fruits is unusual long for seedling in SoCal. Any ideas why?
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: JF on October 20, 2021, 05:53:18 PM
<br />(https://i.ibb.co/N1DrVRn/38-D89-EC2-1-D3-B-47-A2-999-A-05847-BDA2-F77.jpg) (https://ibb.co/N1DrVRn)<br /><br />(https://i.ibb.co/hV10FPB/9-DF4-E272-85-D1-4-FF2-8-C3-D-767-DFFF3-EE12.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hV10FPB)<br /><br />(https://i.ibb.co/3M7LKyZ/1-FAD8-E6-D-95-F9-4890-8-B5-B-2-B7341-F49849.jpg) (https://ibb.co/3M7LKyZ)<br />

Parson seedling of Juliette much better and coconuty flavor
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: Eggo on October 22, 2021, 03:35:40 AM
Definitely following this thread, I find these discussion on seedlings so interesting.  Simon, I noticed you noted that NDM was one of the more vigorous seedlings.  This seem to support my suspicion.  I had a NDM on turpentine rootstock, in 15 years the tree is no more taller than 6ft. However when grafted onto my ataulfo seedlings the NDM was such a vigorous grower.  I will try to grow out some seedlings and see how they do as rootstocks. Thanks!
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: SHV on October 27, 2021, 11:15:24 AM
Picked one of my tree ripened Paheri seedling mangos this week.  This was the first year of production from a 5 year old seedling located in inland SD county (Escondido).  The growth from this tree is extremely vigorous, nearly 9 feet tall, with long thin leaves similar to the growth and leaf patterns described online from Paheri mango tree variety.  The fruit grew in one large cluster (see pict) with a bright red blush on the sun exposed side.  The taste of the fruit was amazingly sweet with an intense pine resin flavor near the skin and stem.  True to its parent, the mango is completely fiberless with smooth flesh.  Seeds from the fruit are monoembryonic.  This tree will be a very nice complement to the grafted Zill varieties on my property.  Although this is just one example, it should help dispel the myth that seedlings from Mono seed fruit always result reduced quality from the parent tree.  Plant those seeds!

(https://i.postimg.cc/67RNYLTY/IMG-0045.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/67RNYLTY)

(https://i.postimg.cc/mPKsY6ZP/IMG-0201.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/mPKsY6ZP)

(https://i.postimg.cc/TKKxWXx8/IMG-0203.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/TKKxWXx8)
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: simon_grow on October 27, 2021, 12:21:16 PM
Thanks for the post SHV, yes, definitely plant those seeds! You may get lucky with a great new selection as you did.

I would love to have these new seedling selections entered into our mango tastings in the future.

Simon
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: Victoria Ave on October 27, 2021, 02:56:57 PM
Wow! That looks marvelous!
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: fliptop on November 04, 2021, 06:03:00 PM
Yet another multi-trunked seedling. I've had three Pickering seedlings hatch with multiple trucks, and now this Neelam. The leaves are much thinner than the parent tree, but they smell like Neelam fruit. I did not remove the husk off this seed, nor the multi-trunked Pickering from this year, so I was wondering if that caused this. But my two other multi-trunked Pickerings came from de-husked seeds.

I know it's been advised to trim off the side trunks, but I let them be--having visions of a mango bush . . .


(https://i.postimg.cc/w3bQT4FW/20211104-174024-1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/w3bQT4FW)

(https://i.postimg.cc/hJqrRJMc/20211104-174031-2-1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hJqrRJMc)
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: Future on November 06, 2021, 11:11:04 AM
Picked one of my tree ripened Paheri seedling mangos this week.  This was the first year of production from a 5 year old seedling located in inland SD county (Escondido).  The growth from this tree is extremely vigorous, nearly 9 feet tall, with long thin leaves similar to the growth and leaf patterns described online from Paheri mango tree variety.  The fruit grew in one large cluster (see pict) with a bright red blush on the sun exposed side.  The taste of the fruit was amazingly sweet with an intense pine resin flavor near the skin and stem.  True to its parent, the mango is completely fiberless with smooth flesh.  Seeds from the fruit are monoembryonic.  This tree will be a very nice complement to the grafted Zill varieties on my property.  Although this is just one example, it should help dispel the myth that seedlings from Mono seed fruit always result reduced quality from the parent tree.  Plant those seeds!

(https://i.postimg.cc/67RNYLTY/IMG-0045.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/67RNYLTY)

(https://i.postimg.cc/mPKsY6ZP/IMG-0201.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/mPKsY6ZP)

(https://i.postimg.cc/TKKxWXx8/IMG-0203.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/TKKxWXx8)

Well done. Name it.
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: SHV on November 13, 2021, 08:45:14 AM
Last mangos hanging on my trees are the seedling Sensation mangos. This the tree’s first year producing even though it’s my oldest seedling of 7+ years. Sun exposed skin turns a dark purple then changes to a bright red upon ripening. Fruit has dense flesh and very ordinary, classic mango flavor, most would call boring. Low fiber similar to a Mexican Kent but not on the same level of complexity. Decent late season mango when all others have been picked in my location is the best I can say about it. Wikipedia description of Sensation mango is pretty spot on with this seedling tree, however, mine has always been sickly and grows as dwarf size. Monoembryonic seed.

(https://i.postimg.cc/wRY2Zz8M/248-E4-DD6-E295-4-C91-AF90-1-A2-A84760561.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/wRY2Zz8M)

(https://i.postimg.cc/CdbmDRkq/7382-D091-D384-47-F9-BFFE-A944-C4-A3-B212.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/CdbmDRkq)

(https://i.postimg.cc/8jDwbTmn/BBC969-C8-8-C72-495-C-80-DE-54-F05-CCDF766.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/8jDwbTmn)
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: behlgarden on November 15, 2021, 05:48:17 PM
for experiments, I have the following seelings growing well:
1. E4 - 3-yr old
2. Pina Colada - 3-yr old
3. LZ - 8-yr old, fruited on graft, mother tree still virgin, fruit got stolen from Frank's yard. it was an off type and had no resemblance to LZ. cant wait for next year.
4. Peach Cobbler - 2-yrs old
5. OS - 3-yr old
6. ST - 4 yrs old.

so next few years there will be 6 new varieties to sample.
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: fliptop on December 21, 2021, 04:55:58 AM
It appears my 2018 Coconut Cream seedling is pushing mixed blooms? Fruit was first Coconut Cream I ever tried, which I got from Alex (Tropical Acres Farm). Very excited!

(https://i.postimg.cc/9wFSdvgq/20211221-041314-1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/9wFSdvgq)
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: Plantinyum on December 21, 2021, 07:29:48 PM
Nice plants everyone, this is my greenhouse mango seedling. Its one summer old and is holding fine trought winter for now. Lowest temp ever was 4C, but since ive started lighting the wood stove inside, the lowest temps stay above 10C , around 12 C at most times. Soil temp is around 12C also...if i could trust my termomether but i think its quite accurate...
Not talking bout varieties the seed came from, this is unknown to me but here its a question of survival for such plants anyway....

(https://i.postimg.cc/YvtJRcJC/20211221-163536.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/YvtJRcJC)

(https://i.postimg.cc/2VNpqLGv/20211221-163541.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/2VNpqLGv)

(https://i.postimg.cc/t7xQCN3p/20211221-163603.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/t7xQCN3p)
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: simon_grow on December 23, 2021, 01:24:27 PM
Great updates everyone!

Behl, I’m very eager to see how all your seedlings do. I’m especially interested in off types from your Polyembryonic seedlings. I have several E4 seedlings that will hopefully produce in 2-3 years.

Fliptop, let us know how the CC seedling tastes if it holds any fruit.

Plantinyum, good luck with your seedling, please keep us updated!

Simon
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: roblack on December 23, 2021, 02:10:23 PM
Great news everyone! Especially happy to hear of Fliptop getting flowers on CC seedling within 3 years. Contradicts what I was initially told about seedling mango trees and time to flowering/fruiting.

Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: JoeP450 on December 23, 2021, 02:35:49 PM
It appears my 2018 Coconut Cream seedling is pushing mixed blooms? Fruit was first Coconut Cream I ever tried, which I got from Alex (Tropical Acres Farm). Very excited!

(https://i.postimg.cc/9wFSdvgq/20211221-041314-1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/9wFSdvgq)

Hey Fliptop,

Very exciting, can you please post a pic of the tree as a whole? Curious how large it is, also do you do any special pruning or care/fertilizing?

Thanks,
Joe
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: fliptop on December 23, 2021, 07:40:46 PM
Hi, Joe, early on in this thread I posted a pic of it when it was 5' tall. This and a 2017 Pim Seng Mun seedling are my most vigorous seedlings.

The tree is now around 8' tall. Here's what it looks like today:
(https://i.postimg.cc/0KGwLyRJ/20211223-165148-HDR-1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/0KGwLyRJ)
Here's another angle:
(https://i.postimg.cc/XZTBqCnC/20211223-165159-HDR-1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/XZTBqCnC)
And one more, which includes a PPK seedling in the distance--the PPK also came from Alex in the same 2018 shipment as the Coconut Cream.
(https://i.postimg.cc/87YjX6J0/20211223-165244-HDR-1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/87YjX6J0)
As far as pruning, I pruned it once in 2020. It was growing straight up pretty fast and I cut it at about 3' about a 1/4" above a node. I got I think 6 new shoots and kept 3.

As far as fertilizing, I did nothing for the first two years, but twice this past year I gave it a couple handfuls of that Sunniland Citrus, Avocado, and Mango fertilizer--less than the recommended dose. Not sure that has anything to do with the flowering, as I gave all the three-year-and-older trees a little taste of the fertilizer.

I honestly expected one of my Pickering or Pim Seng Mun seedlings to flower first. I thought this one was only interested in growing.

Hopefully it gets and holds fruit that are awesome.
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: JoeP450 on December 23, 2021, 08:17:27 PM
Interesting thanks for the response, it seems the leaves are thinner than the OG coco cream, and it’s more upright than spindly in growth habit , pretty cool. I think I recall from one of Gary Zill’s interviews on YouTube that he never got either PSM or Okrung seedlings to fruit… if someone can verify that, but just random note, but you may beat him to it.

-Joe
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: fliptop on December 23, 2021, 09:12:49 PM
Yes, the leaves are thinner than grafted Coconut Cream trees I've seen. Last year I had asked Alex which trees are nearby his Coconut Cream tree/s, in the offhand chance I could figure out a possible pollinating parent, and I can't remember what he said, ha!

Yikes, that's worrisome about not getting a seedling PSM to fruit . . .
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: fliptop on December 31, 2021, 04:00:45 PM
I saw the YouTube video in question (Truly Tropical's "Gary Zill's Mango Variety Development Project"). Very insightful video for seed growers. He said there were certain varieties of seedling trees he never got to fruit, and specifically mentioned Okrung. Hopefully PSM wasn't one of the others, and there's still hope for my two seedling trees.

Here's an updated pic of one of the Coconut Cream seedling's flower panicles. We've been having a lot of fog and morning dew, which I'm hoping doesn't negatively affect the flowers and anticipated fruit.

(https://i.postimg.cc/k6Yrr1TV/20211231-111745-1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/k6Yrr1TV)
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: JoeP450 on December 31, 2021, 10:24:47 PM
Ahh yes that was okrung he mentioned thanks for tracking that down and clarifying 👍

-Joe
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: Future on February 28, 2022, 03:59:43 PM
Curious to know if anyone’s seen new flowering on a seedling.

I found flowers today on Dr. Campbell’s boys’ monoembryonic “Martian Pride”. Planted circa 2010.
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: SHV on February 28, 2022, 04:57:45 PM
I have several seedlings with first time flowers this year. My Dasheri (6 year old) has enough panicles that it should produce something this year.  Okrung (6yrs) has a ton of flowers.  Small fruit last year did not develop. 3yr old ST Maui has one set of flowers. Cambodiana (6yrs) has flowers, I might let fruit hold this year after plucking the fruit last year to focus on growth. Most anticipated is a 6 yr, vigorous Carrie seedling tree that is pushing a ton of flowers after losing its first flower set last year to a late season cold front.  I have some Zill variety seedlings but they are still too young at only a couple years.  Sugarloaf is growing real fast though and wouldn’t surprise me if some of its new growth has mixed bloom front the recent cold snap we experienced here.
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: simon_grow on February 28, 2022, 05:09:28 PM
Two of my E4 seedlings, an Orange Sherbet seedling and a Pina Colada seedling are blooming for the first time. I’ll update if any of them hold fruit.

Simon
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: fliptop on February 28, 2022, 05:39:00 PM
As noted above, I *had* flowers (and subsequently even some fruit set) on my 2018 Coconut Cream seedling. Then the two nights below freezing took care of that. Very not happy.

Here's to hoping the tree flowers again next year and has a chance to fruit.

Here's the tree today, pushing new growth and wearing Kaolin Clay:

(https://i.postimg.cc/G89s5hvB/20220228-173136-1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/G89s5hvB)
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: simon_grow on March 12, 2022, 11:08:32 PM
Fliptop, at least it’s still alive. If you have a mature tree, maybe you can top work it with your CC seedling just to have it on multiple trees.

I stopped by Brads place today and he has quite a few seedlings in bloom.
(https://i.postimg.cc/tZw16V6p/0-DE1077-F-7-B21-406-F-908-C-F4-B7928-C71-B2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/tZw16V6p)

(https://i.postimg.cc/R3Cnxm95/5-B4071-D6-B114-47-C0-848-C-81-C138-DA06-E4.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/R3Cnxm95)

(https://i.postimg.cc/njCjM1C3/8-F9-F4-DEC-A8-FB-47-E3-B70-D-1358460-B0787.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/njCjM1C3)

(https://i.postimg.cc/VJWbh6xW/F9-A0-B716-84-C9-4-DE4-ACE5-7-CF6659438-A0.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/VJWbh6xW)
I didn’t check the tags to see what’s what but there could be some good seedling selections in the near future.

Simon
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: simon_grow on March 12, 2022, 11:15:06 PM
And here’s a lanky Orange Sherbet seedling in my backyard with partial blooms



(https://i.postimg.cc/0r75n3Rp/D4-B62293-729-B-48-C2-B6-D6-2333-D39-BD767.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/0r75n3Rp)
Simon
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: simon_grow on March 13, 2022, 02:48:32 PM
E4 seedling #1 blooms
(https://i.postimg.cc/5Qgy4sMK/FD3-BA9-A4-E879-47-FC-A491-C1-DC78-C7-D484.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/5Qgy4sMK)

E4 seedling #2 partial blooms
(https://i.postimg.cc/YhXN83mx/F00-D2-CE6-8-F63-4-A5-A-9024-F887-AD2-FC77-D.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/YhXN83mx)

Pina Colada seedling partial blooms

(https://i.postimg.cc/CZ8jhprv/4-B6-FEBBC-10-EE-4795-9891-E8-B42-AE5-C3-BA.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/CZ8jhprv)
Simon
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: gozp on March 13, 2022, 04:06:11 PM
M4 seedling - planted seeds 11/2017, just recently planted on ground after close to 5 yrs being potbound on a 15 gallon. Now ots flowrring. Survived my harsh temps 26f (being the lowest) since it grew, 120f temps & unprotected.


I hope to an improved fruit. Yes m4 seedling is lanky just like the momma tree.


(https://i.postimg.cc/Lhcz4Ybd/20220210-183428.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Lhcz4Ybd)
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: simon_grow on May 20, 2022, 10:47:03 AM
M4 seedling - planted seeds 11/2017, just recently planted on ground after close to 5 yrs being potbound on a 15 gallon. Now ots flowrring. Survived my harsh temps 26f (being the lowest) since it grew, 120f temps & unprotected.


I hope to an improved fruit. Yes m4 seedling is lanky just like the momma tree.


(https://i.postimg.cc/Lhcz4Ybd/20220210-183428.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Lhcz4Ybd)

Gozp, good going! I can’t remember, is M4 poly or mono? Regardless, I’m very interested in the quality of seedling mangos.

Simon
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: simon_grow on May 20, 2022, 10:59:01 AM
I have two E4 seedling mango trees (one is an actual tree, the other is just a graft onto an established tree) and both of them bloomed and the blooms are disease resistant and set a good number of small fruit. I will remove the fruit from the seedling tree but I’ll let the grafted seedling hold a fruit.


(https://i.postimg.cc/G4Tk4ztY/627-A6445-FEAE-41-C0-8-B75-AB489-CC35030.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/G4Tk4ztY)

(https://i.postimg.cc/4mS64jfs/A1-BF9791-D8-AB-4-EFC-81-A0-477-CD730-B062.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/4mS64jfs)

(https://i.postimg.cc/2q4hw64S/B751-D85-A-42-FC-44-D3-9186-B96358-E08884.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/2q4hw64S)

(https://i.postimg.cc/Cz1CgwVc/DAA6-B34-E-3-A16-4-D90-A6-B2-A83-D2-DB7-CFA1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Cz1CgwVc)

My Pina Colada seedling grafts also bloomed. The blooms are disease resistant and it is holding a good number of small fruit. The grafts are on an established tree so I will keep a few fruit to evaluate later this year. The blooms did get some powdery mildew but the blooms set fruit anyways.
(https://i.postimg.cc/8sqk1b2x/1-EC8-DE1-A-A829-4150-B9-D1-902132-B4629-A.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/8sqk1b2x)

(https://i.postimg.cc/mP4b9g2w/7-C64-D2-C1-75-ED-4-BBC-9-D37-819-B4-EFFC584.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/mP4b9g2w)


My Orange Sherbet seedling bloomed but the blooms were extremely susceptible to Powdery Mildew so I hacked the tree back and top worked it with other varieties. I did keep one main branch and this seedling selection is also grafted onto another tree so I will continue to evaluate it in the coming years.

In my area, the PPK, LZ and OS seedlings tend to grow well but the blooms are susceptible to disease. The actual true named varieties, not the seedlings, also seem to hate cold weather and thrive in heat. These trees perform better at top of hill where there is good air movement. I have a tree in a spot with little air movement and it does produce but their is a lot of PM and very little fruit set.

Simon
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: fliptop on May 28, 2022, 06:08:16 PM
Simon, that's exciting about the Pina Colada seedling fruits!

My Coconut Cream seedling that lost blooms and little fruits in the freezes has kicked out an insane amount of shoots. Alas, they're coming out in all directions. Any suggestions as to when I should trim unwanted shoots off?

(https://i.postimg.cc/8FwtpjCd/20220526-202428-1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/8FwtpjCd)

(https://i.postimg.cc/G4wMzWND/20220526-202434-1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/G4wMzWND)
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: simon_grow on May 29, 2022, 02:11:05 PM
Hey fliptop, I would prune now to clean up any crossing or weak branches but I’m not familiar with pruning techniques in Florida. The scraggly and droopy growth habit of all those vegetative growths does remind me a lot of the actual Coconut Cream.

It is very exciting to potentially select a good offtype or zygotic seedling from a Polyembryonic variety. Please keep us updated!

Simon
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: fliptop on May 29, 2022, 03:17:51 PM
Thanks, Simon! I'm tempted to prune now but I'm also afraid of stressing the tree too much, as I feel it's still on the mend from the freezes.

I checked Alex's site and oddly enough, there's no description of the Pina Colada. Is it polyembryonic?
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: simon_grow on May 29, 2022, 04:35:58 PM
Pina Colada is Polyembryonic. It’s definitely a top tier variety for me because of its super intense flavor. It has an intense acidic component combined with an intense sweetness that creates a flavor explosion. Sweet Tart has a completely different flavor profile but it also has this intense sweet and acidic component.

I personally don’t detect much if any Coconut flavor in Pina Colada but it does have a pineapple like flavor. The issue with Pina Colada is that it’s a small fruit with a relatively large seed and it is slow growing in SoCal. It has been reported to me that Pina Colada also has some disease issues when grown in SoCal. I liked this variety so much that I grew out a bunch of seedlings and grafted this more vigorous seedling selection to my established tree and it has grown nicely and bloomed and set fruit without issue.

Simon
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: Johnny Eat Fruit on May 29, 2022, 06:07:12 PM
Glad to hear about Pina Colada Simon. Last year I started growing several seedlings and they have done quite well in my greenhouse (See attached photo). When they are a little bigger I will likely graft them to existing mango trees in the ground.

Johnny


(https://i.postimg.cc/fSmRfYfh/8-U1-A9913-Pina-Codada-Mango-Seedling-1-Tree-5-23-2022.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/fSmRfYfh)
Pina Colada Mango Seedling Tree (5-23-22)
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: toadshade on May 30, 2022, 03:35:19 PM
Just a follow up on trimming.  I have a three gallon mango that I just planted in the ground in my greenhouse in Georgia USA.  I was surprised to see it bloom as soon as it got warm.  At the recommendation of others, I cut off the blooms to promote growth since it is such a small tree.  Since I did that no new growth has started since I cut off the blooms about two months ago.  Tree is still healthy.  Just not growing new shoots.  I always wondered if I could have trimmed it properly or not.  I just cut off the blooms at the base of the blooms.  Which to me seemed a little too close to the node.  Would it be a good idea to cut it back at the branch instead?
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: Orkine on May 30, 2022, 04:20:14 PM
I have read several suggestions and the one I like the most is let it set fruit.  Once it gets to marble size, knock them off.  The panicle will dry u an fall off.
The reason as I understand it is your cut off the bloom early in the flowering season, the plant will try to push new bloom instead of vegetative flush which you want.
That said, I have tried many methods and in Florida, I don't think it matters much what you do, you will get new growth at the node if you just remove the bloom or of the branch if you remove the node (it is essentially like tipping at that point).


 
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: simon_grow on May 30, 2022, 04:48:52 PM
Nice looking Pina Colada seedling Johnny!

Toadshade, I agree with Orkine. Also, when removing the bloom, you don’t have to remove the entire bloom. At my location, removing the bloom too early will just cause the tree to re bloom.

Instead, you can remove 1/2 to 2/3 of the blooms to remove some of the weight from the branches. This will help prevent the branches from drooping. Allow the fruit to set and then remove the fruit when they are marble to thumb size or when the temps are warm enough to prevent blooms (average lows above 61-62F)

Also, when pruning off entire blooms, I like to cut above an intercalation so that I don’t get a rosette of skinny weak growth. I prefer 2-3 evenly spaced branches. See this article

https://www.growables.org/information/documents/MangoPruningStrategies.pdf

Simon
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: simon_grow on May 30, 2022, 04:58:04 PM
Here’s more on the physiology of mango blooms

https://www.scielo.br/j/bjpp/a/M3wyHvkcRMyrBrkTrzvzjyz/?lang=en


There’s is a great in depth explanation of what triggers blooms in Mangos.

I still find it very ironic that mango growers in Florida and other warmer areas are struggling to get their mangos to bloom while us growers in cooler regions are struggling to get our trees to grow vegetatively (inhibit blooms) . Ultimately, the science behind what triggers blooms in mangos will be equally valuable to both parties.

Simon
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: toadshade on May 30, 2022, 05:05:42 PM
Great info.  Thanks for the links
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: JoeP450 on May 31, 2022, 04:20:37 PM
Simon this article is gold man…. Going to pay more attention to the floral and vegetative stimulators, and be careful of pruning within 4-5 months of floral stimulus (cold weather). I think why in cali it’s optimal for mangos to flower sooner is it’s dry and cold air so ratio of floral vs vegetative balance is tipped towards flowering ie cold is positive for floral induction while dry is negative for vegetative = strong bloom. The issue in Florida seems to be opposite so if poor cold fronts and rain the scale is tipped to favor vegetative growth and not ideal.

After reading this article my plan going forward is to tip prune 4-5 months before cold fronts traditionally come while withholding nitrogen and keeping track of flushing with goal of one flush post tip prune, then as cold fronts come add a lil nitrogen. I will add gypsum over the summertime. Will have to see how this works out.

What I also found crazy interesting is this paragraph:



(https://i.postimg.cc/yJqYZ5B1/3-CDE9-BBD-0554-4-FC2-A86-A-463-EF9-ECAEDB.png) (https://postimg.cc/yJqYZ5B1)

Certain mangos require lower temperature threshold for flower induction and it’s evidently graft transmittable so an interesting experiment would be to use those types as rootstock or inter-stock and see if that imparts a better bloom in cultivars that struggle to bloom in warmer weather. I have never observed an actual turpentine mango tree and don’t know if it’s a strong bloomer or not in warm weather but I think I heard it is most common rootstock used in FL. This could be good or bad if weather starts trending warmer over time.

-Joe
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: simon_grow on May 31, 2022, 11:41:57 PM
Hey Joe,

I’m glad you found those articles useful. I was thinking the same thing regarding our issue with cold and dry weather inducing blooms in our mangos so I tried to do the opposite of what I found in literature to stimulate blooms but unfortunately it did not work for me.

I tried increasing watering and giving very high levels of Nitrogen and extremely low input of Phosphorus but all that did was cause additional blooms. In our climate which is marginal for growing mangos, the cold weather is the strongest stimulus that tilts the balance towards blooms and leaf nitrogen levels and water has little weight on the scale.

In Southern Florida, where the climate is great for vegetative flushes of mangos, the more vigorous varieties may inherently flush more frequently than a less vigorous variety so one flush post tip prune may not work for all varieties.

I believe that the general consensus is that it’s best to prune mango trees in Florida immediately after you finish harvesting the fruit.

Some varieties like CAC are known to require additional stimulus to bloom so I ran a bunch of experiments to see if I could use it as a rootstock/interstock to inhibit precocity but i was not able to delay blooming.

Simon
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: mangoba on June 01, 2022, 10:33:22 AM
This has become my favorite thread.

Since I could find here most of the folks who are growing seedlings, do you ever notice that the first few leaves are not necessarily identical to the growth that comes next? I'm talking mainly shape and to a less extent color. Could it be the difference between pulling resources from the seed as opposed to using roots and pulling from soil?
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: Ed Fisher on August 23, 2022, 04:05:49 PM
As a newbie mango seedling planter - in Aug last year I transplanted a year old mango seedling (from what I suspect is a 30-year-old Haden hybrid mother tree on our condo property) into a marginal location (area gets occasional flooding). From descriptions of 2-year-old mango seedlings - this seems to represent exceptionally vigorous growth. This July, I've started some grafts from prepared scions from the mother tree and cut back the trunk and side branch crowns - with uncertain results so far. Here is a pic from June 2022 before grafting.




(https://i.postimg.cc/CRJMxY6J/2-year-old-mango-seedling.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/CRJMxY6J)
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: fliptop on August 23, 2022, 06:23:49 PM
mangoba, I have noticed some seedlings have had first leaves that were markedly different in shape and size than ones that followed. No idea the cause of it, though?
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: DAV1D on August 23, 2022, 10:21:14 PM
Has anyone ever grown a mango tree 100% indoors with grow lights?
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: alangr088 on August 23, 2022, 11:14:57 PM
Has anyone ever grown a mango tree 100% indoors with grow lights?


I grow them for about 2-3 months indoors in a greenhouse with lights. They grow like weeds. I got about 20 seeds from Florida growing nicely right now. Once I plant them outside they stop growing like weeds...but hey that’s California mango growing for you.
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: DAV1D on August 24, 2022, 02:26:59 AM
I'm in zone 9a. I was thinking about growing a full mango tree inside my house, I have 12ft ceilings.
Just wondering if anyone has done it before 😂
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: mangoba on August 24, 2022, 07:22:26 AM
I'm in zone 9a. I was thinking about growing a full mango tree inside my house, I have 12ft ceilings.
Just wondering if anyone has done it before 😂

 :D

Pickering in a large container maybe but get ready to fight pests and especially mites.
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: DAV1D on August 24, 2022, 08:28:31 AM
Wouldn't there be less bugs, since I would be growing indoors?
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: alangr088 on August 24, 2022, 09:41:49 AM
Wouldn't there be less bugs, since I would be growing indoors?

Just a side note...my greenhouse gets up to about a high of 100 degrees Fahrenheit and a low of maybe 78. Humidity varies at around 50-70 percent humidity. I'm sure you could grow it inside of a home/house, just don't expect it to do too much. Consider it a house plant.
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: roblack on August 24, 2022, 11:28:37 AM
Here's some seedling Wangoes and wild mangoes. M. Zeylanica seems most vigorous so far.

(https://i.postimg.cc/hhQvRs18/Wangoes-Nwildmangoes.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hhQvRs18)
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: johnb51 on August 24, 2022, 02:01:11 PM
This has become my favorite thread.

Since I could find here most of the folks who are growing seedlings, do you ever notice that the first few leaves are not necessarily identical to the growth that comes next? I'm talking mainly shape and to a less extent color. Could it be the difference between pulling resources from the seed as opposed to using roots and pulling from soil?
I have a seedling orange sherbet (polyembryonic), which I've been growing for over six months, and so far the new leaves do not match those of a grafted orange sherbet, but they do smell very citrusy when crushed.
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: johnb51 on August 24, 2022, 02:07:10 PM
The fruit from two seedling trees on my cul-de-sac is very good, possibly even worthy of propagation.  The seeds came from the same tree, but they're not alike. They're both better than the source tree.
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: Oolie on August 24, 2022, 02:22:28 PM
The fruit from two seedling trees on my cul-de-sac is very good, possibly even worthy of propagation.  They came from the same tree, but they're not alike. They're both better than the source tree.

Any indication of superior shelf life? How would you describe them?
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: Johnny Eat Fruit on August 24, 2022, 02:25:18 PM
I started germinating some mango seedling trees in the summer of 2021 and thus far they are doing well in #5 pots.

Here are a few photos as examples. The first two are Pina Colada and the last one is a Sweet Tart Seedling.

Johnny

(https://i.postimg.cc/DSttzdNk/8-U1-A2670-Pina-Colada-Mango-Seedling-Tree-1-8-20-2022.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/DSttzdNk)
Pina Colada Mango Seedling #1


(https://i.postimg.cc/xqxpC3kx/8-U1-A2671-Pina-Colada-Mango-Seedling-Tree-2-SV-8-20-2022.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/xqxpC3kx)
Pina Colada Mango Seedling #2


(https://i.postimg.cc/WtCmCWqv/8-U1-A2683-Sweet-Tart-Mango-Seedling-Tree-1-8-20-2022.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/WtCmCWqv)
Sweet Tart Seedling
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: johnb51 on August 24, 2022, 03:03:16 PM
The fruit from two seedling trees on my cul-de-sac is very good, possibly even worthy of propagation.  The seeds came from the same tree, but they're not alike. They're both better than the source tree.

Any indication of superior shelf life? How would you describe them?
Seedling #1: Early season, small fruit, turns yellow when fully ripe and separates easily from the tree, flesh is yellow too, flavor is best when fully tree-ripened, traditional mango flavor with strong but pleasant resin component, very sweet with extra kick of acidity.  A little fiber.  Ripe fruit will keep in fridge.  The squirrels seem to adore this mango and will spoil half the fruit if given the chance.  Moderately vigorous with dense canopy.

Seedling #2: Mid-season, large fruit, beautiful color, flesh is deep orange, flavor is classic mango with maybe a little stone fruit and mild resin, very sweet. A little fiber. Ripe fruit will keep in fridge.  Squirrels mostly leave it alone.  Tall, vigorous tree.
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: johnb51 on August 24, 2022, 03:18:25 PM
Seedling #2 fruit
(https://i.postimg.cc/QVj9kGqX/20220708-180829.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/QVj9kGqX)

(https://i.postimg.cc/JD5yVPRV/20220710-171634.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JD5yVPRV)
Seedling #1 tree (Tree trimmers cut off all the lower branches for no good reason!)
(https://i.postimg.cc/23Tq0cHn/20220824-150638.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/23Tq0cHn)
Seedling #2 tree
(https://i.postimg.cc/3dJG75yL/20220824-150816.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/3dJG75yL)
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: SHV on August 24, 2022, 04:48:29 PM
I started germinating some mango seedling trees in the summer of 2021 and thus far they are doing well in #5 pots.

Here are a few photos as examples. The first two are Pina Colada and the last one is a Sweet Tart Seedling.

Johnny

(https://i.postimg.cc/DSttzdNk/8-U1-A2670-Pina-Colada-Mango-Seedling-Tree-1-8-20-2022.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/DSttzdNk)
Pina Colada Mango Seedling #1


(https://i.postimg.cc/xqxpC3kx/8-U1-A2671-Pina-Colada-Mango-Seedling-Tree-2-SV-8-20-2022.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/xqxpC3kx)
Pina Colada Mango Seedling #2


(https://i.postimg.cc/WtCmCWqv/8-U1-A2683-Sweet-Tart-Mango-Seedling-Tree-1-8-20-2022.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/WtCmCWqv)
Sweet Tart Seedling

Those are some nice looking 1 year old seedlings. Strong growth for one year in a pot. If you need to make room for other plants and want to sell one of those Piña colada, you let me know 😉. Been trying to get a seedling of this variety to drop in the ground for a couple years now.
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: Johnny Eat Fruit on August 24, 2022, 05:46:34 PM
I will likely transfer my mango seedling trees into a larger #7 pot next month and then in the summer of 2023 graft them onto existing trees already in the ground. I will likely sell some of the mango seedlings late next summer as I am out of room at my location. Mainly want to use them for free fresh scions. Drop me a message later next year and perhaps we can work out a deal.

Johnny
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: Ed Fisher on August 26, 2022, 04:37:22 PM
My first post (page 6) posted- but my 2nd post with 6 pics was prohibited by Cleartalk as spam!? Any help?
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: Ed Fisher on August 26, 2022, 04:48:51 PM
Checked my Java Script is enabled but still get the Clean Talk -"Spam Blocked" when I try to post?
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: Ed Fisher on August 26, 2022, 11:53:47 PM
I've grown about 50 seedlings in 1 gallon pots from this June's crop of a big mango mother tree in our condo landscape and would like opinions as to its variety.  Since it's at least 40 years old, I figure its a Haden hybrid.  Fruit (see pic) flesh is yellow/orange, delicious, no acidity, totally fibreless. Monoembryonic embryo average 2 inches long and about 10% grow multiple (up to 7) shoots.  If seedling gets cropped by a rabbit - below all leaves - multiple shoots  emerge within 10 days (see pic).

(https://i.postimg.cc/4K1P4d8f/mother-mango-tree.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/4K1P4d8f)
Mother Tree

(https://i.postimg.cc/f3054NFC/last-2nd-crop4.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/f3054NFC)
Last of 2nd crop Mother Tree fruit

(https://i.postimg.cc/4mVJ37cR/4-trees-red-is-mother.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/4mVJ37cR)
Fruit (July 4) from only mango trees (all inside 90' radius circle) within 3 blocks radius of Mother Tree (red fruit)

(https://i.postimg.cc/jWNC0ghP/multiple-sprouts.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/jWNC0ghP)
Single embryo - multiple shoots

(https://i.postimg.cc/8sCDLXr4/multiple-sprouts-bare-root.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/8sCDLXr4)
Multiple shoots - bare rooted

(https://i.postimg.cc/wyfCWHsV/close-multiple.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/wyfCWHsV)
Closeup - multiple shoots

(https://i.postimg.cc/CRs6PY3q/rabbit-cropped-regrow.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/CRs6PY3q)
Rabbit-cropped (no leaves) stem - multiple shoots (after 3-week recovery)
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: Oolie on August 31, 2022, 02:30:37 PM
I planted the seeds I got from the fruit from FLNative. I only got a single Julie fruit, but of all of the fruit it had my preferred flavor similar to the resin in Kesar. I planted it, and the leaves of the seedling smell very similar to Gary descendants (50/50 Bar).


The only Likely Gary descendants from FLNative's yard are Coconut Cream, Cotton Candy, M4, or Honey Kiss.

Going to grow it out and cross my fingers.
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: mangoba on August 31, 2022, 05:55:00 PM
I planted the seeds I got from the fruit from FLNative. I only got a single Julie fruit, but of all of the fruit it had my preferred flavor similar to the resin in Kesar. I planted it, and the leaves of the seedling smell very similar to Gary descendants (50/50 Bar).


The only Likely Gary descendants from FLNative's yard are Coconut Cream, Cotton Candy, M4, or Honey Kiss.

Going to grow it out and cross my fingers.

I myself have a LZ seed from Frank also which gave 2 seedlings, one smells very much like LZ but the more vigorous one has an Indian type spiciness. I feel terrible that most seedlings end up dying in my poor soil but the thought of having a LZ with some spiciness makes me have beautiful dreams until I lose this seedling :)
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: SHV on September 04, 2022, 11:14:21 PM
Cambodiana Mango Seedling
After a couple years of producing, I thought this would be a good time for a write-up.  My tree produced fruit after 5 years from seed but I waited for year 7 to confirm mango quality and size.  This tree consistently puts out 6 ounce size fruit and one of the earliest to ripen in my yard. It’s a strong producer of disease free fruit, flowers, and leaves.  Lanky grower that needs a good pruning. I’ll get to it someday…right.  If left to ripen on the tree, the fruit turn a beautiful orange with yellow-orange fiberless flesh and brix in low 20s. Can also be picked early with a hint of yellow and they ripen on the counter just fine.  Flavor is pure indochinese.  Apparently this is the OG of all other indochinese types we love from Zill.  It’s like a Sweet Tart mango, but smaller.  Polyembryonic seed, however, I only have luck growing out the primary shoot in the subsequent generations. I have planted out several seedlings of this seedling on my property due to the favorable characteristics of the mother.  Another win for us SoCA seedling growers.

(https://i.postimg.cc/mPwgD3mk/9907-FDE5-F119-4-E55-9-A68-878-E08-D658-F0.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/mPwgD3mk)

(https://i.postimg.cc/hJZ48DWq/D88-A7-FDC-6-C25-41-F5-96-AF-F9-A9-D408-B465.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hJZ48DWq)


(https://i.postimg.cc/PvYtk1Lt/20819-EB1-05-A8-4653-812-A-31-B71641-D3-DB.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/PvYtk1Lt)
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: spaugh on September 04, 2022, 11:40:47 PM
Cambodiana Mango Seedling
After a couple years of producing, I thought this would be a good time for a write-up.  My tree produced fruit after 5 years from seed but I waited for year 7 to confirm mango quality and size.  This tree consistently puts out 6 ounce size fruit and one of the earliest to ripen in my yard. It’s a strong producer of disease free fruit, flowers, and leaves.  Lanky grower that needs a good pruning. I’ll get to it someday…right.  If left to ripen on the tree, the fruit turn a beautiful orange with yellow-orange fiberless flesh and brix in low 20s. Can also be picked early with a hint of yellow and they ripen on the counter just fine.  Flavor is pure indochinese.  Apparently this is the OG of all other indochinese types we love from Zill.  It’s like a Sweet Tart mango, but smaller.  Polyembryonic seed, however, I only have luck growing out the primary shoot in the subsequent generations. I have planted out several seedlings of this seedling on my property due to the favorable characteristics of the mother.  Another win for us SoCA seedling growers.

(https://i.postimg.cc/mPwgD3mk/9907-FDE5-F119-4-E55-9-A68-878-E08-D658-F0.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/mPwgD3mk)

(https://i.postimg.cc/hJZ48DWq/D88-A7-FDC-6-C25-41-F5-96-AF-F9-A9-D408-B465.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hJZ48DWq)


(https://i.postimg.cc/PvYtk1Lt/20819-EB1-05-A8-4653-812-A-31-B71641-D3-DB.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/PvYtk1Lt)

Roughly how many mango tree are you growing? 
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: SHV on September 05, 2022, 12:28:52 AM
I have roughly 20 seedling trees of differing varieties ages 4-8 years, so at or nearing fruiting stage. I also have approximately 200+ seedlings between 1-3 years of age planted out, mostly Kent and Ataulfo seedlings for scheduled top working after 3 years in ground.   
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: spaugh on September 05, 2022, 11:05:41 AM
I have roughly 20 seedling trees of differing varieties ages 4-8 years, so at or nearing fruiting stage. I also have approximately 200+ seedlings between 1-3 years of age planted out, mostly Kent and Ataulfo seedlings for scheduled top working after 3 years in ground.

How much acerage is the 200 new ones on?  What kind of space between trees? 
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: Future on September 05, 2022, 06:25:18 PM
Cambodiana Mango Seedling
After a couple years of producing, I thought this would be a good time for a write-up.  My tree produced fruit after 5 years from seed but I waited for year 7 to confirm mango quality and size.  This tree consistently puts out 6 ounce size fruit and one of the earliest to ripen in my yard. It’s a strong producer of disease free fruit, flowers, and leaves.  Lanky grower that needs a good pruning. I’ll get to it someday…right.  If left to ripen on the tree, the fruit turn a beautiful orange with yellow-orange fiberless flesh and brix in low 20s. Can also be picked early with a hint of yellow and they ripen on the counter just fine.  Flavor is pure indochinese.  Apparently this is the OG of all other indochinese types we love from Zill.  It’s like a Sweet Tart mango, but smaller.  Polyembryonic seed, however, I only have luck growing out the primary shoot in the subsequent generations. I have planted out several seedlings of this seedling on my property due to the favorable characteristics of the mother.  Another win for us SoCA seedling growers.

(https://i.postimg.cc/mPwgD3mk/9907-FDE5-F119-4-E55-9-A68-878-E08-D658-F0.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/mPwgD3mk)

(https://i.postimg.cc/hJZ48DWq/D88-A7-FDC-6-C25-41-F5-96-AF-F9-A9-D408-B465.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hJZ48DWq)


(https://i.postimg.cc/PvYtk1Lt/20819-EB1-05-A8-4653-812-A-31-B71641-D3-DB.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/PvYtk1Lt)

Great report and success. Well done.
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: MasonG31 on September 05, 2022, 07:03:45 PM
Cambodiana Mango Seedling
After a couple years of producing, I thought this would be a good time for a write-up.  My tree produced fruit after 5 years from seed but I waited for year 7 to confirm mango quality and size.  This tree consistently puts out 6 ounce size fruit and one of the earliest to ripen in my yard. It’s a strong producer of disease free fruit, flowers, and leaves.  Lanky grower that needs a good pruning. I’ll get to it someday…right.  If left to ripen on the tree, the fruit turn a beautiful orange with yellow-orange fiberless flesh and brix in low 20s. Can also be picked early with a hint of yellow and they ripen on the counter just fine.  Flavor is pure indochinese.  Apparently this is the OG of all other indochinese types we love from Zill.  It’s like a Sweet Tart mango, but smaller.  Polyembryonic seed, however, I only have luck growing out the primary shoot in the subsequent generations. I have planted out several seedlings of this seedling on my property due to the favorable characteristics of the mother.  Another win for us SoCA seedling growers.

(https://i.postimg.cc/mPwgD3mk/9907-FDE5-F119-4-E55-9-A68-878-E08-D658-F0.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/mPwgD3mk)

(https://i.postimg.cc/hJZ48DWq/D88-A7-FDC-6-C25-41-F5-96-AF-F9-A9-D408-B465.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hJZ48DWq)


(https://i.postimg.cc/PvYtk1Lt/20819-EB1-05-A8-4653-812-A-31-B71641-D3-DB.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/PvYtk1Lt)

That's a beautiful fruit.  Thanks for showing it.  Have you ever tried growing Zill Indochinese (ZINC) seedlings? 
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: SHV on September 05, 2022, 10:56:24 PM
I have roughly 20 seedling trees of differing varieties ages 4-8 years, so at or nearing fruiting stage. I also have approximately 200+ seedlings between 1-3 years of age planted out, mostly Kent and Ataulfo seedlings for scheduled top working after 3 years in ground.

How much acerage is the 200 new ones on?  What kind of space between trees?

I have planted the new seedlings on approximately 1 acre with 6' x 6' x 12' spacing on a terraced hillside.  I really like the high density approach where duplicate varieties are grown next to each other and as they eventually grow into each other, cut one down and allow one to occupy the space.  I suspect it will be many years before they get to this size, if ever.  The first year I planted about 100 seedlings and only 3 survived gophers and winter conditions.  The following year, I planted nearly as many in homemade hardware cloth baskets and had a much higher survival rate.  Now, a sustainable water source will be the next obstacle to overcome with our wells running dry.
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: SHV on September 05, 2022, 11:03:53 PM

That's a beautiful fruit.  Thanks for showing it.  Have you ever tried growing Zill Indochinese (ZINC) seedlings?

I have only tasted ZINC once and was a big fan.  I tried to save the seed, but it did not produce a strong seedling so I trashed it.  Not to say ZINC is a poor choice for seedling growth.  Just some mango seeds produce weak seedings regardless of the variety. 
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: spaugh on September 05, 2022, 11:17:40 PM
I have roughly 20 seedling trees of differing varieties ages 4-8 years, so at or nearing fruiting stage. I also have approximately 200+ seedlings between 1-3 years of age planted out, mostly Kent and Ataulfo seedlings for scheduled top working after 3 years in ground.

How much acerage is the 200 new ones on?  What kind of space between trees?

I have planted the new seedlings on approximately 1 acre with 6' x 6' x 12' spacing on a terraced hillside.  I really like the high density approach where duplicate varieties are grown next to each other and as they eventually grow into each other, cut one down and allow one to occupy the space.  I suspect it will be many years before they get to this size, if ever.  The first year I planted about 100 seedlings and only 3 survived gophers and winter conditions.  The following year, I planted nearly as many in homemade hardware cloth baskets and had a much higher survival rate.  Now, a sustainable water source will be the next obstacle to overcome with our wells running dry.

crap man that sucks about the water.  Hopefully you have city water as backup.  No city water available here, if the ground dries up its game over here. 
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: MasonG31 on September 06, 2022, 11:26:23 AM
I have roughly 20 seedling trees of differing varieties ages 4-8 years, so at or nearing fruiting stage. I also have approximately 200+ seedlings between 1-3 years of age planted out, mostly Kent and Ataulfo seedlings for scheduled top working after 3 years in ground.

How much acerage is the 200 new ones on?  What kind of space between trees?

I have planted the new seedlings on approximately 1 acre with 6' x 6' x 12' spacing on a terraced hillside.  I really like the high density approach where duplicate varieties are grown next to each other and as they eventually grow into each other, cut one down and allow one to occupy the space.  I suspect it will be many years before they get to this size, if ever.  The first year I planted about 100 seedlings and only 3 survived gophers and winter conditions.  The following year, I planted nearly as many in homemade hardware cloth baskets and had a much higher survival rate.  Now, a sustainable water source will be the next obstacle to overcome with our wells running dry.

Sorry to hear about the wells running dry.  Hopefully you can find an alternative.  In your experience, do mango trees need more, less, or the same amount of water as avocado trees?
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: gozp on September 06, 2022, 02:50:29 PM

(https://i.postimg.cc/75LCFKWS/20220903-224222.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/75LCFKWS)


Priyoor mango seedling.
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: gozp on September 06, 2022, 02:53:16 PM

(https://i.postimg.cc/qNnRVWGh/20220617-214415.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/qNnRVWGh)


M4 seedling
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: SHV on September 11, 2022, 11:24:44 PM
Carrie Seedling
First year that this tree has produced fruit, and boy, was it saving up for a decent first crop. It’s a 6 year old seedling that flowered last year, but a late chill killed all the flowers.  The flowers and leaves are also very susceptible to powdery mildew. Fortunately, it throws out tons of flowers so it has plenty of opportunity to fruit.  I really had to hand thin the fruit but still could have pulled more fruit to size up those retained.  I picked three of the 30 plus fruit hanging once the stem dried up and slight color change. The result was 3/4 lb fruit, still very green outside, but some give with firm pressure after 4 days on the counter. No discernible smell indicating ripeness. The fruit has a thick outside skin with deep orange flesh.  Completely fiberless. Brix averaged around 25 between the three fruit tasted.  The flavor is very reminiscent of Dwarf Hawaiian, but different texture and just a hint of acid.  Overall, I loved this fruit. If this is what Carrie tasted like, I can’t imagine what off-flavors people detect to fall into the hater camp. I might try letting a few tree ripen to see what off flavors develop if not picked at the proper time. Another fantastic seedling.

(https://i.postimg.cc/H8z0q8HS/32755025-ADA0-4510-84-A4-150305759-FB3.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/H8z0q8HS)

(https://i.postimg.cc/vgWtvSKw/3566-B213-6746-418-C-881-A-3192-AD049-DAA.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/vgWtvSKw)

(https://i.postimg.cc/f3SKVbjL/E5-FF4-C11-46-FB-4-AFE-A2-F6-7-EEA9-B179590.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/f3SKVbjL)
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: simon_grow on September 12, 2022, 12:54:41 AM
SHV, great reports on your Cambodiana and Carrie Seedlings! They both sound great, especially the Carrie seedling. I hope your mango orchard establishes quickly so you can grow your keeper list of seedlings. I suspect that mangos that have gone through more iterations of selective breeding will likely give offspring with favorable taste profiles.

It would also be very interesting to grow out a bunch of Polyembryonic mangos in the hopes that you get a favorable off type seedling.

I should have some Pina Colada seedling and E4 seedling fruit ripening up soon.

Simon
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: mangoba on September 12, 2022, 07:26:49 AM
SHV, do you detect any Indian type spiciness? It sounds to me like you're not tasting any.
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: SHV on September 12, 2022, 12:36:36 PM
Yes, definitely an Indian type spice to the Carrie seedling.  I mentioned it’s similarity to Dwarf Hawaiian which falls under the Indian spice category.  It’s almost like an Alphonso, but that mango is unique on its own.  The Carrie seedling has a very balanced spice flavor profile. Not like the Paheri seedling I described in this thread last year.  That mango is pure pine resin, super Indian spice. You can taste it on your breath 2 hours after eating it.
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: Jagmanjoe on September 12, 2022, 05:33:49 PM
To me, this is such a refreshing thread.  So many out there discourage growing Mango trees from seed claiming it will take an inordinate amount of years to produce fruit and the fruit will most likely not be very good.  They continue on with claims that the only way to get a good mango is to buy a grafted tree or graft one.

More and more I am hearing stories of trees from seed producing at times in as little as 3 or 4 years with fruit that has great flavor.  I have about a dozen from seeds of good varieties that are about a year old and 3 to 5 feet tall after giving away about an additional half dozen to individuals I hope will get to try, enjoy and appreciate potentially different varieties.  It is so personally rewarding to see the trees growing from seed and have the potential to be tasting great mangoes within a few years.  I do have 15 grafted varieties also in the ground which should produce soon.

A month ago, my wife and I were privileged to be able to taste a variety that had a flavor similar to that of a Carrie that had amazing, sweet flavor and is proving to be more disease resistant while also being a late season variety.  The grower of that new variety is a little south of Sarasota, FL.  Hopefully one day I will be lucky enough to be an owner of one of this new variety.

Kudos to those of you pursuing and sharing information about Mango trees grown from seed.  Keep proving that it isn't always necessary to buy a Zill grafted variety to get a great tasting mango.
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: SHV on September 14, 2022, 11:06:41 PM
“Red” Saigon

I’ve enjoyed growing popular variety mangos seedlings.  For the most part, they have been excellent fruit retaining the best characteristics of the maternal parent.  This is not one of them. I picked up a one year old seedling from Exotica about 6 years ago labeled as Red Saigon.  It has grown tall and disease free over this time while producing its first fruit 3 years ago.  The fruit were small sized and underwhelming at best in both flavor and texture.  I have given it 3 years to improve its output, but it consistently delivers undersized fruit with a moderate amount of fiber and a funky taste.  I thinned the fruit to just 3 hanging mangos this year with no improvement.  The fruit are oblong, with a faint blush, medium skin thickness, and yellow/orange fruit.  The flavor could best be described as cola with no hint of indochinese or southeast Asian flavor that I have ever tasted.  I’ve heard the “cola” flavor described before but never believed that could be an accurate description of a mango.  I stand corrected, mango can definitely taste like cola and I don’t like it.  This tree is a definite candidate for top working based on these undesirable characteristics.  I might keep one branch ungrafted just in case the tree eventually improves its fruit quality. 


(https://i.postimg.cc/dhyq6Fz1/41140-F90-CD6-A-41-B8-ACC3-EA60-E85-BA496.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/dhyq6Fz1)

(https://i.postimg.cc/8j3pLcX9/A858-FD9-B-3250-461-F-8-ECB-69-CF2-A15-DBFD.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/8j3pLcX9)
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: gozp on September 15, 2022, 01:17:42 PM
Here are a photos of m4 seedling.... so damn goood... 1st time it fruited considering its this 1st year, flavor can still get sweeter.


Going back, when i was in Florida my buddy got me multiple m4s and this was a seedling of it.



(https://i.postimg.cc/7fJNHVnY/20220908-134658.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/7fJNHVnY)

(https://i.postimg.cc/Z0Mczg3M/20220908-134708.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Z0Mczg3M)

(https://i.postimg.cc/7Ck9Q27P/20220908-134715.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/7Ck9Q27P)

(https://i.postimg.cc/SjTZNj0V/20220915-083627.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/SjTZNj0V)

(https://i.postimg.cc/68sfyvMV/20220915-084502.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/68sfyvMV)
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: Jagmanjoe on September 15, 2022, 06:01:11 PM
Here are a photos of m4 seedling.... so damn goood... 1st time it fruited considering its this 1st year, flavor can still get sweeter.


Going back, when i was in Florida my buddy got me multiple m4s and this was a seedling of it.



(https://i.postimg.cc/7fJNHVnY/20220908-134658.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/7fJNHVnY)

(https://i.postimg.cc/Z0Mczg3M/20220908-134708.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Z0Mczg3M)

(https://i.postimg.cc/7Ck9Q27P/20220908-134715.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/7Ck9Q27P)

(https://i.postimg.cc/SjTZNj0V/20220915-083627.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/SjTZNj0V)

(https://i.postimg.cc/68sfyvMV/20220915-084502.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/68sfyvMV)

Can you share how old the tree is for this first fruiting?

Thanks
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: gozp on September 15, 2022, 06:04:58 PM
I forgot to add. That was 2017... lived through a 5 gal pot (unprotectwd from winter) till i recently planted it early this year.
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: FruitFool on September 16, 2022, 12:45:24 AM
gozp,

Did you detect any coconut flavor in your M4 seedling?

Fruitfool
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: simon_grow on September 16, 2022, 11:11:14 AM
I was walking through the garden Yesterday and found one of my E4 seedling fruits on the ground. It had colored up a bit on the tree and I’ve noticed that the sun exposed areas get a strange mottled color similar to my Venus fruits. It could just be sunburn, I’m not really sure. Anyways, according to post #35 on this thread, this tree is now 3 years old and it had 4 scaffold branches when it bloomed last winter.

The blooms are very disease resistant and I had a very high fruit set per panicle. I thinned each panicle down to one fruit, I really should have only let it hold one fruit, but I really wanted to see if it could actually mature the 4 fruit. The 4 fruit did grow, one fell off and is ripening, one is colored up on the tree and the last two should be ready soon.

Coincidentally, on the same day, I also found an actual grafted real E4 fruit on the ground. It looked dark green but it fell off from the wind or on its own so I hope it will ripen properly. Here are some pictures.


(https://i.postimg.cc/WD0vzxtn/45-C50020-D192-47-DF-993-A-CBA0152-A7824.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/WD0vzxtn)

(https://i.postimg.cc/0rks5WvY/6-D013297-F753-4916-B309-65-F7-C505-E5-C4.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/0rks5WvY)

(https://i.postimg.cc/9wQ5xMb8/D8-AF79-EF-63-CD-4164-9706-20-B993-A2-D10-A.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/9wQ5xMb8)

Simon
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: simon_grow on September 16, 2022, 11:22:43 AM
Regarding my E4 seedling, it bloomed last Winter and in Summer, it sprouted many branches from the lower portion of the tree.
(https://i.postimg.cc/cKPvyp2B/D3-D8-A257-D06-A-4789-9-CA8-D5-AF7-DD862-B4.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/cKPvyp2B)

Here are some pictures of the remaining fruit hanging on the tree.
(https://i.postimg.cc/BjL8YZwn/1-C033-EBD-5224-4715-92-E3-A4993-E13206-D.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/BjL8YZwn)

(https://i.postimg.cc/cvpvVqVM/47110-F06-385-B-4-A83-ADC1-4-CF1-AD0-B75-E4.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/cvpvVqVM)

(https://i.postimg.cc/hhs7h5dc/A483-C616-261-A-4268-A783-C01-B654-FB9-BA.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hhs7h5dc)

The original main scaffold branches have unfortunately dropped down from the weight of the fruit.
(https://i.postimg.cc/kDG7F1Hn/1-B39-BAAF-1191-4748-8-DB8-3-FD84-E071-CE9.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/kDG7F1Hn)

If this E4 seedling happens to be a clone, it may have the added benefit of coloring up when it is fully mature and ready to harvest making it significantly easier for people to determine when it is ready to pick.

If this happens to be a zygotic seedling, I hope that it will have the flavor profile similar or better than the real E4 and hopefully it will have less fiber.

I will post a full taste report with Brix readings when these fruit ripen. I’m not expecting ultra high Brix from these fruit as this tree has very few leaves and the tree is only 3 years old. Next year, I will allow 40-60 leaves per fruit to see what it’s full potential is.

Simon
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: K-Rimes on September 16, 2022, 02:20:57 PM
I've planted out a couple valencia prides (one at work, one at home), a few orange essence (one at work, one at home) and they seem to be doing really well. I hope to report in this thread in about 3-4 years.
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: simon_grow on September 17, 2022, 12:15:15 AM
Awesome K-Rimes, feel free to post some pictures if you’d like. Seeing before and after pictures can help others see how the shape of the trees change as the scaffold branches form and as we prune our trees with various techniques.

Simon
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: FruitFool on September 18, 2022, 12:27:57 PM
Simon,

Your E4 seeding has that nipple at top which I saw
in real E4 from Florida. Hopefully it will also have taste of original or better.

Fruitfool
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: simon_grow on September 20, 2022, 02:02:50 AM
Good to know FruitFool, I never paid attention to the nipple.

Both the E4 and the E4 seedling fruit smelled super good last night and had a little give so I put them in the fridge last night and cut them open tonight.

Both mangos had a slight coconut flavored Lifesavers smell to it and they both had a very mild tropical smell that was a fantastic combination.

Both mangos were drops so there was quite a bit of damage on the nose end.

The real E4 mango weighed in at around 11 oz and it was still green in color. The flesh color was yellowish orange and the Brix was 18.4% with such a low Brix, I wasn’t expecting much from this fruit but after one bite, I was in heaven. It tasted like the typical E4 that was fully ripened meaning it had that coconutty taste with just a tinge of tropical mango flavor. This is the best tasting mango I’ve ever had with such a low Brix reading. There’s just something about the complex depth or layers of flavor that make this variety so special. It’s that coconut background with the candy lifesavers combined with that hint of tropical flavor that just makes this variety pop.

I’ve had many other E4 mangos with higher Brix that tasted better than this fruit but at this Brix, it was the best mango I can recall.


(https://i.postimg.cc/8J6Db3rC/05-D4-E64-C-FEFE-40-E0-97-F5-928-CEAF0-E74-B.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/8J6Db3rC)

(https://i.postimg.cc/jnYT3Xz4/4-EC4611-C-B468-4-D46-976-D-27-B0-BDAD285-F.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/jnYT3Xz4)

(https://i.postimg.cc/JsrrWPST/80277-D0-F-38-B3-4280-AA59-D139-AAF6-FB4-C.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JsrrWPST)

The Seedling E4 was just like the real E4 except it had a Brix of 21.5% and tasted correspondingly better. This seedling fruit was just a bit sweeter and a bit more coconutty and just a slightly stronger taste probably due to the higher Brix. The Seedling E4 weighed in at around 13 oz.

The real E4 and the Seedling E4 tasted so similar that the slight differences are most likely attributed to the differences in Brix alone.

I’m guessing that this E4 seedling is likely a clone but for some reason, when it ripens, it’s skin color changes. This difference in Phenotype may be attributed to genetic drift, epigenetics or I could be completely wrong and maybe it is a zygotic seedling that just tastes like the real E4, I really don’t know.

I need to observe the rest of the fruit on this tree to see if they also turn yellow as it becomes tree ripened. The first two fruit definitely changed colors as you can see from the pictures I posted but we did have a heatwave which may have caused the skin to burn and turn that color.

If this seedling does consistently turn color when tree ripened, it can be very beneficial to growers that want to grow E4 but have a difficulty determining when to pick their fruit. I have one more fruit ripening in the garage and two more still hanging on the tree so I’ll update as they ripen.



(https://i.postimg.cc/Jt8hRNDB/4-E244418-1-FBC-484-F-B92-A-1-F0-F1-B04-DB70.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Jt8hRNDB)

(https://i.postimg.cc/qgGvqNyD/4-F5-C60-AE-F6-B2-48-D1-85-E9-62-D0556-E922-E.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/qgGvqNyD)

(https://i.postimg.cc/p5R43Xdp/777-FA170-28-B9-4646-93-DA-F43-E721-F5346.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/p5R43Xdp)

(https://i.postimg.cc/vcHHVGvY/C545-E02-D-E239-4-FF1-B630-0108-F348-B86-E.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/vcHHVGvY)
Oh yeah, the E4 seedling had a completely aborted embryo and the real E4 had a very small embryo.

Simon
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: simon_grow on September 20, 2022, 02:03:42 AM
Real E4 embryo/seed
(https://i.postimg.cc/Fd5HdcT8/74-A1-D02-B-F484-4030-925-E-18-B7-FB148140.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Fd5HdcT8)
Simon
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: SHV on September 20, 2022, 08:22:24 AM
Great review Simon. This makes me really excited for my Sugarloaf seedling.  It’s only 3 years old, but pushing 5 feet tall and real bushy.  It’s grown like a weed since I planted it in the ground 2 years ago. I’m hoping it pushes flowers next year. If so, I may let it hold one fruit even though my general rule is 5 years before allowing to fruit. 
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: Eggo on September 20, 2022, 02:25:02 PM
Awesome review Simon!  When will scions be available, lol. j/k.

Looking forward to seeing more of your reviews as your various seedlings begin to fruit.
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: fliptop on September 20, 2022, 05:10:07 PM
Awesome reports, Simon and gozp!

Simon, did you only get/plant one seedling from the original Sugarloaf seed?

gozp, any updates on the M-4 seedling taste?
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: K-Rimes on September 20, 2022, 05:54:08 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/cvxGKrKr/35-FC1-D7-A-B02-F-43-AF-821-C-4792-ED5-F5382.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/cvxGKrKr)

Valencia pride at home

(https://i.postimg.cc/4mnzX1Pd/6925-F941-2-C9-D-495-F-974-C-5-F492070-C431.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/4mnzX1Pd)

Orange essence at home

(https://i.postimg.cc/LJxKj2fv/A99-A3372-FDE2-4-E3-A-AE6-F-21-A620-FBCBCC.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/LJxKj2fv)

Orange essence at work

(https://i.postimg.cc/6TZXFsJ5/C0-DDE825-06-A4-43-E6-AF7-E-A9494-ED4-B44-E.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/6TZXFsJ5)

Valencia pride at work

The woodchips at work tend to float inward to the trunk when I water so I just scoot them back each time. The orange essence at work and VP at home were planted on the same week, interesting to see the differences between the one at home which suffers much more inland heat sometimes near 110f vs at work where they never see much more than 80f (by the sea). The soil is drastically different from my house to work, I'm basically just on ancient seabed sand (very little organic matter) whereas at work it's a heavy clay.
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: Oolie on September 20, 2022, 07:42:09 PM
Interesting Simon, when you first posted pics of the two fruit, I thought looks like the yellow one is the same, but with an aborted seed, your tasting of it is further evidence in support of the guess.

You will know in a couple years whether they are identical, especially if you graft both of them on the same rootstock.
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: simon_grow on September 20, 2022, 09:29:36 PM
Thanks everyone,

I will grow out this seedling a bit more and then I will share some scions with those active in the rare fruit community. I still need to make sure the color change isn’t because of sunburn.

I grew out multiple E4 seedlings and I believe the other clones were brought over to Spaugh’s (Brads) orchard. I also have two other E4 seedling grafts on others trees so we will see how those turn out.

Oolie, those are two different fruit. The green fruit is the real E4 and the mottled yellow one is my seedling E4. I have two fruit that are still green on the tree so as long as we don’t have another heatwave, a change in color would suggest there are slight differences between the real E4 and the seedling.

Simon
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: SHV on September 23, 2022, 02:27:03 PM
Mexican Kent seedling

As mentioned in a previous post, I’m growing out a bunch of Kent seedlings from store bought mangos as rootstock for future top working. A single 3 year old, 3 foot tall tree was hiding a couple small fruit that ripened on the tree. I believe the TFF term would be ‘nubbins’.  Cut it open and it tasted like a ripe Kent.  Nothing too special, other than it being candy sweet.  It’s crazy how quickly seedling mangos can fruit here in CA under the right conditions, even if the fruit size is less than desirable. 

(https://i.postimg.cc/vxh2f3CN/62-A7061-F-EED8-4-BDC-8-CBC-47-DE3-D7-D105-F.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/vxh2f3CN)

(https://i.postimg.cc/PNMdShjB/7-D383-E21-959-D-47-FA-B064-5-F9922-F158-A3.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/PNMdShjB)

(https://i.postimg.cc/30YbkPfG/99-F98-C28-3-ACE-4-D07-884-D-537-F752-AF54-C.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/30YbkPfG)
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: simon_grow on September 24, 2022, 02:25:14 AM
Congratulations, hopefully you will get some full sized fruit in the coming years.

Simon
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: simon_grow on September 24, 2022, 09:00:06 PM
Here is the first fruit from my Pina Colada seedling grafted onto my mature tree. The fruit was turning yellow on the bottom half so I decided to pick it and allow it to ripen off the tree. It’s a small fruit and I’m hoping this seedling will taste like the real Pina Colada.

This Pina Colada seedling has grown very well for me and the blooms are very disease resistant. This has been a bad year for mangos in much of the SoCal area but this variety has remained productive. I’ll repost back with a taste report once the fruit fully ripens. I can already smell a bit of that Pina Colada aroma.
(https://i.postimg.cc/BLyhf9nz/0-E2-E387-F-66-B4-4-D5-C-9-D19-592-F68414208.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/BLyhf9nz)

(https://i.postimg.cc/tZ7rcCpP/3-DDBD6-DF-40-E1-4801-B81-F-53-B95645-F2-C5.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/tZ7rcCpP)

(https://i.postimg.cc/bStmzCGw/91774-B24-DBC2-482-B-9-FC6-873659098601.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/bStmzCGw)

(https://i.postimg.cc/FfrCjV6T/CF5732-C9-790-C-44-B5-851-B-BF3-A469-F63-B0.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/FfrCjV6T)
Simon
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: SHV on September 24, 2022, 09:49:35 PM
Nice tease Simon!  Can’t wait to hear the taste report on the Piña Colada seedling. That has been the one seed, seedling, budwood that has eluded me.  Hoping to get this variety in my orchard soon.
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: SHV on October 02, 2022, 04:40:42 PM
Dasheri Seedling

First time this one has fruited for me and the last new seedling variety of the season.  The tree is 5 years old and was acquired from Exotica as a 1 year old seedling. The tree has always had dieback issues and not nearly as vigorous as other varieties I have planted.  Overall, it’s still growing at about 6 feet tall and spindly.  I let it hold two fruit that each weighed in at 20 ounces.  The flavor was not what I expect from a traditional Indian mango.  I thought it tasted like a fiberless Keitt with a very subtle Indian resin flavor and much denser flesh. Excellent balance of acid and sugar. A delicious mango in a class of its own compared to other Indian mango varieties I have sampled.  I will be taking budwood from this tree to graft onto more vigorous rootstock in case the parent tree eventually dies back completely.


(https://i.postimg.cc/PC9q8JbT/7-FC24285-8-F37-460-C-9-BEE-2-BCFDDCBBCAA.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/PC9q8JbT)

(https://i.postimg.cc/v4cBBfV0/F49380-AB-FF62-4-F2-E-B225-7-A45-AB926-E86.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/v4cBBfV0)
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: FruitFool on October 02, 2022, 09:11:21 PM
Hi, shv,

Fruit shape doesn’t resemble Dasheri but Dasheri has fiberless flesh.
You got some great seedlings.

Fruitfool
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: yimnvs on October 08, 2022, 12:42:27 PM
I have some mango seedlings in 1 and 1.5 gallon pots, should I mulch them or leave the soil bare?

People say mulching is good  but I see a lot of pictures on this thread showing seedlings in pots with no mulch so I would like to know if mango seedling in pots is an exception?

Thanks,
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: roblack on October 08, 2022, 02:22:57 PM
I have some mango seedlings in 1 and 1.5 gallon pots, should I mulch them or leave the soil bare?

People say mulching is good  but I see a lot of pictures on this thread showing seedlings in pots with no mulch so I would like to know if mango seedling in pots is an exception?

Thanks,

No mulch in pot that size. Just make sure the soil covers all the roots and is not covering the trunk.

Going to graft some scions from seedlings onto established trees. Should be a fun experiment, see which fruits sooner.
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: yimnvs on October 08, 2022, 02:53:59 PM
I have some mango seedlings in 1 and 1.5 gallon pots, should I mulch them or leave the soil bare?

People say mulching is good  but I see a lot of pictures on this thread showing seedlings in pots with no mulch so I would like to know if mango seedling in pots is an exception?

Thanks,

No mulch in pot that size. Just make sure the soil covers all the roots and is not covering the trunk.

Going to graft some scions from seedlings onto established trees. Should be a fun experiment, see which fruits sooner.

Great thanks. Goodluck on your grafts.
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: spaugh on October 15, 2022, 04:36:40 PM
This is a sweet tart seedling that looks a tastes just like sweet tarts.  These mangos are so good.  It's 4 or 5 years old.  It was a tree Simon planted here.  It made a lot of fruit this year and they are awesome tasting and the tree sets big clusters of fruit.  The tree is sagging from all the fruit is the only downer.

(https://i.postimg.cc/hfRgmv2K/20221011-190344.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hfRgmv2K)
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: Samu on October 15, 2022, 05:17:03 PM
 Wow, successful result from seedling! Thanks for sharing the news.
 I would rather have the problem of the good fruits sagging the tree
rather than having a shapely erect tree with hardly any fruits, Brad… :)
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: spaugh on October 15, 2022, 06:13:04 PM
Wow, successful result from seedling! Thanks for sharing the news.
 I would rather have the problem of the good fruits sagging the tree
rather than having a shapely erect tree with hardly any fruits, Brad… :)

True.  I am super happy with the fruit they taste awesome.  Everyone in the family agreed they were some of the best mangos we ever had.  I have some really large rootstock trees Ill probably top work some with this one.  I also have a real grafted sweet tart tree and the 2 fruit taste exactly the same and look exactly the same and both set big clusters that sag. 
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: spaugh on October 16, 2022, 11:43:48 PM
Here's a seedling of providence mango.  It made a giant 2lb 4oz fruit.  The tree is 3-4 years old from seed.  Haven't cut the fruit yet.  I didn't know it was holding fruit this year, it just had the 1 giant piece of fruit and my kids found it. 

(https://i.postimg.cc/LgF76CQr/20221016-163711.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/LgF76CQr)
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: SHV on October 17, 2022, 08:39:43 AM
Wow Brad, that is a massive fruit for a tree that young!  I’m curious to hear if it kept enough of the parent genetics to remain an ‘improved Kent’.  Let us know how it tastes when ready.  I’ve been impressed how many of my monoembryonic seedlings have retained the favorable genetics of their parents. 
Regarding your Sweet Tart seedling, I still think this variety is one of the very best to grow in CA.  It consistently gets rave reviews, is versatile in harvest timing, and grows vigorously.  If seedlings give similar fruit, they should be in everyone’s yard. 
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: johnb51 on October 17, 2022, 09:37:56 AM
Sweet Tart is polyembryonic, right?
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: JakeFruit on October 17, 2022, 09:48:04 AM
Sweet Tart is polyembryonic, right?
Yep
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: MasonG31 on October 17, 2022, 11:30:48 AM
This is a sweet tart seedling that looks a tastes just like sweet tarts.  These mangos are so good.  It's 4 or 5 years old.  It was a tree Simon planted here.  It made a lot of fruit this year and they are awesome tasting and the tree sets big clusters of fruit.  The tree is sagging from all the fruit is the only downer.

(https://i.postimg.cc/hfRgmv2K/20221011-190344.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hfRgmv2K)

Beautiful fruit.  That's really awesome Brad.  Thanks for sharing. 
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: spaugh on October 17, 2022, 09:16:53 PM
Here's another one I cut for the first time today.  J12 seedling.  I'll try the J12 and providence once they soften up and let you know if they are any good.  This J12 seed tree grew super fast and the fruit are a decent size.

(https://i.postimg.cc/SjQwhfqv/20221017-181308.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/SjQwhfqv)

(https://i.postimg.cc/ZBH2NCPH/20221017-181312.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ZBH2NCPH)
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: Amy K on October 18, 2022, 11:15:49 AM
Here's another one I cut for the first time today.  J12 seedling.  I'll try the J12 and providence once they soften up and let you know if they are any good.  This J12 seed tree grew super fast and the fruit are a decent size.

(https://i.postimg.cc/SjQwhfqv/20221017-181308.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/SjQwhfqv)

(https://i.postimg.cc/ZBH2NCPH/20221017-181312.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ZBH2NCPH)
Wow, great size. I never heard of J12. Can't wait for update on taste and seed size
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: mangoba on October 18, 2022, 05:26:10 PM
Impressive Brad! I wonder how much Indian spiciness this one will have, did it smell any muskiness?

When it's a variety you've never tried before, do you have a general rule for picking time?
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: skhan on February 20, 2023, 05:05:32 PM
I bought some rootstock from Alex (squam) in 2017 when I was first starting to get serious about grafting.
From what I remember I think it was probably a seedling from his monster Edward trees.
I grafted Thai everbearing and z-0 to it and left the middle branches to grow.
I was excited to see the seedling branches flowering this year.
I'll report in and let you know how the fruit turns out.
(https://i.postimg.cc/vgWnxXK0/PXL-20230218-174738931.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/vgWnxXK0)
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: mangoba on February 21, 2023, 09:24:26 AM
I bought some rootstock from Alex (squam) in 2017 when I was first starting to get serious about grafting.
From what I remember I think it was probably a seedling from his monster Edward trees.
I grafted Thai everbearing and z-0 to it and left the middle branches to grow.
I was excited to see the seedling branches flowering this year.
I'll report in and let you know how the fruit turns out.
(https://i.postimg.cc/vgWnxXK0/PXL-20230218-174738931.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/vgWnxXK0)

WOW, super long panicles. Is there any correlation between the colors of the panicle and the fruit?
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: simon_grow on February 21, 2023, 09:32:07 AM
Nice tease Simon!  Can’t wait to hear the taste report on the Piña Colada seedling. That has been the one seed, seedling, budwood that has eluded me.  Hoping to get this variety in my orchard soon.

SHV, the Pina Colada seedling is most likely a clone but the fruit from last year tasted slightly different in that it was more sweet and didn’t have as much acid balance. I probably picked the fruit a bit too late, I will try harvesting the fruit a bit earlier to get more acidity. You’re welcome to a few scions if you’re interested.

Simon
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: simon_grow on February 21, 2023, 09:33:23 AM
Here's another one I cut for the first time today.  J12 seedling.  I'll try the J12 and providence once they soften up and let you know if they are any good.  This J12 seed tree grew super fast and the fruit are a decent size.

(https://i.postimg.cc/SjQwhfqv/20221017-181308.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/SjQwhfqv)

(https://i.postimg.cc/ZBH2NCPH/20221017-181312.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ZBH2NCPH)

Hey Brad, do you remember how the J12 seedling fruit turned out? Was there any uneven ripening?

Simon
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: spaugh on February 21, 2023, 04:32:48 PM
Yes, we ate many of them.  It ripened fine and they were good but not great.  Just kind of boring flavor.  Not that sweet or strong tasting.  Just a classic taste and no fiber but lowish brix.  I plan to top work. 
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: SHV on February 21, 2023, 07:22:50 PM
Nice tease Simon!  Can’t wait to hear the taste report on the Piña Colada seedling. That has been the one seed, seedling, budwood that has eluded me.  Hoping to get this variety in my orchard soon.

SHV, the Pina Colada seedling is most likely a clone but the fruit from last year tasted slightly different in that it was more sweet and didn’t have as much acid balance. I probably picked the fruit a bit too late, I will try harvesting the fruit a bit earlier to get more acidity. You’re welcome to a few scions if you’re interested.


Thanks Simon, I might take you up on that offer later this season.  I can trade you some mangos or budwood from my select seedlings in exchange.
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: Honest Abe on February 21, 2023, 09:20:46 PM
Has anyone fruited a sugarloaf seedling yet?

I’m years away but interested if the tree itself has any traits different than the rootstock used at zills which I was under the impression is turpentine…
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: simon_grow on February 21, 2023, 09:58:21 PM
I fruited a Sugarloaf (E4) seedling. See page 8 of this thread. Last year was the first year it fruited so I need to evaluate it some more but so far it seems like it’s a clone of the actual E4 with some very minor differences which may be attributed to the rootstock or environmental factors.

In my review, I compared the real E4 Fruit, which is grafted to my multigraft Turpentine rootstock tree to my Seedling E4 fruit that was grown and fruited on my E4 seedling tree. My multigraft E4 tree is in full sun but the graft is towards the lower branches so the leave’s around the graft don’t get as much sun as my E4 Seedling tree. My E4 seedling tree is right next to a fence and gets a lot of shading because the fence is South facing but the fruit were in the upper canopy of the tree where it got decent Sunlight which may explain why the real E4 skin color stayed green whereas my Seedlings E4 skin color changed to a mottled Yellow/brown. My E4 seedling fruit may have also been slightly sun burned.

Either way, I’m super happy with the fruit from my E4 seedling because it’s a relatively vigorous grower and its blooms are disease resistant.

I have two other E4 seedlings which should fruit this year or next. I would highly recommend people in Southern California try growing out some E4 seedlings.

Simon
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: SHV on February 21, 2023, 11:14:57 PM
I have an E4 sugarloaf seedling that is similarly a vigorous grower and large enough to produce its first fruit this year.  Fingers crossed.
With all the cold weather and inordinate amount of rain in SoCA the past month, who knows what flowering conditions will result. 
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: Oqueel on February 28, 2023, 04:20:30 AM
Wow! I can't believe I'm just reading this thread now. I should've been doing this a long time ago! Still, better late than never.

I grew seedlings from my mom's mango tree. In my country, we call it the "German mango" (don't know why). It's polyembryonic, definitely Indo-Chinese and may actually be the Okrung because they taste very alike. My yard has a slope so I scattered the seedlings around the property because I didn't know which area would be best to grow them. It turns out that the ones downhill have grown very large but always have diseased leaves while the ones on the slope (unfortunately, just a couple) are much smaller and don't have as many fungal issues (I'm in the hot and humid tropics so fungi is more or a less part of life here). The trees on the slope fruited faster than those downhill.

Anyway, I was hoping to topwork most of the trees but I think I'll just uproot the ones downhill and restart on the slope, using seedlings (scions are quite hard to get and they probably won't even arrive in the best shape). I do hope someone will be happy to sell me some polyembryonic and disease-resistant fruit/seeds when the mango season arrives. This is so exciting!
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: sapote on March 02, 2023, 02:48:26 AM
The trees on the slope fruited faster than those downhill.
How many years and how large the trees to fruit? Why top work them -- don't like the honey sweet Okrung? I like them.
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: Oqueel on March 02, 2023, 02:27:35 PM
The trees on the slope fruited faster than those downhill.
How many years and how large the trees to fruit? Why top work them -- don't like the honey sweet Okrung? I like them.

6 years on the slope, 7 downhill. I'm not sure exactly how tall but I'd say about 6-7 feet on the slope and perhaps 10 feet downhill. I'm not sure if they're actually Okrung but I also have a 3 year old Okrung seedling so I hope to compare them properly someday. However, as nice as they are, I'm looking for other varieties otherwise all the trees will be pretty much the same.
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: fliptop on March 03, 2023, 04:37:30 PM

(https://i.postimg.cc/rRwv46fr/IMG-20230303-084224608-3.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/rRwv46fr)

Flies working the seedling Coconut Cream's blooms. Fingers crossed . . .
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: fliptop on April 03, 2023, 11:33:11 AM
Ten little mangos remain on my Coconut Cream seedling.

I removed these ones that weren't going to make it:
(https://i.postimg.cc/G9tyzRcp/IMG-20230403-101259780-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/G9tyzRcp)
I dug my thumbnail into them, and they had that overwhelming pine smell I first smelled in an Angie mango I once grew. I understand that's a popular flavor profile. I hate that flavor profile, but may have to learn to love it.

Here are photos of the little ones growing:

(https://i.postimg.cc/4nvxzFc3/IMG-20230403-100652482-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/4nvxzFc3)

(https://i.postimg.cc/HJ7pjSHd/IMG-20230403-104414429-3.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/HJ7pjSHd)

(https://i.postimg.cc/vDvVtvxG/IMG-20230403-104247740-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/vDvVtvxG)

(https://i.postimg.cc/vg0GcDDw/IMG-20230403-104311386-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/vg0GcDDw)
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: Oolie on April 03, 2023, 10:08:09 PM
Sounds like a not true-to-type seedling.

Is it a vigorous tree?

If it has that flavor and is vigorous, I'd consider it, especially if it's poly.
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: johnb51 on April 03, 2023, 11:46:25 PM
Ten little mangos remain on my Coconut Cream seedling.

I removed these ones that weren't going to make it:
(https://i.postimg.cc/G9tyzRcp/IMG-20230403-101259780-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/G9tyzRcp)
I dug my thumbnail into them, and they had that overwhelming pine smell I first smelled in an Angie mango I once grew. I understand that's a popular flavor profile. I hate that flavor profile, but may have to learn to love it.

Here are photos of the little ones growing:

(https://i.postimg.cc/4nvxzFc3/IMG-20230403-100652482-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/4nvxzFc3)

(https://i.postimg.cc/HJ7pjSHd/IMG-20230403-104414429-3.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/HJ7pjSHd)

(https://i.postimg.cc/vDvVtvxG/IMG-20230403-104247740-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/vDvVtvxG)

(https://i.postimg.cc/vg0GcDDw/IMG-20230403-104311386-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/vg0GcDDw)
Come on.  I don't think you can tell the flavor profile from that!
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: roblack on April 04, 2023, 12:07:26 PM
Ceci Love seedling we are growing has leaves that smell very piney and spicy when crushed. While I do like the piney mangoes a bit, it's not my fav of flavor profiles. Hopefully it's more like its mother than it seems.

Might need to do more controlled crossing. For next flowering season, was thinking of attaching a mesh tube between Sweet Tart and Ceci Love, letting some flies in, and crossing them.
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: Oolie on April 04, 2023, 02:13:33 PM
Ten little mangos remain on my Coconut Cream seedling.

I removed these ones that weren't going to make it:
(https://i.postimg.cc/G9tyzRcp/IMG-20230403-101259780-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/G9tyzRcp)
I dug my thumbnail into them, and they had that overwhelming pine smell I first smelled in an Angie mango I once grew. I understand that's a popular flavor profile. I hate that flavor profile, but may have to learn to love it.

Here are photos of the little ones growing:

(https://i.postimg.cc/4nvxzFc3/IMG-20230403-100652482-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/4nvxzFc3)

(https://i.postimg.cc/HJ7pjSHd/IMG-20230403-104414429-3.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/HJ7pjSHd)

(https://i.postimg.cc/vDvVtvxG/IMG-20230403-104247740-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/vDvVtvxG)

(https://i.postimg.cc/vg0GcDDw/IMG-20230403-104311386-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/vg0GcDDw)
Come on.  I don't think you can tell the flavor profile from that!

That is how Gary selected off-types from poly seeds. So believe it or not, it's the way.
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: fliptop on April 04, 2023, 05:33:26 PM
Oolie, yes, it's fairly vigorous.

johnb51, the sap, even from fruitlets that small, have a distinctive smell. My Pickering fruitlets have a classic turpentine smell, my Sugarloaf fruitlets have that creamsicle smell, and this seedling's fruitlets have a piney smell.
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: johnb51 on April 04, 2023, 06:00:40 PM
Ok, if you guys say so.
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: Oolie on April 04, 2023, 06:25:14 PM
Ok, if you guys say so.

As mentioned earlier in this thread, I have a seedling of an indochinese flavored mango. The seed was poly and the two seedlings were different in sap smell, one had sap that smelled like indochinese parsnip smell, the other which survived had a smell different than the parent like the spicy orange oil smell of a valencia orange skin. That one should be fruiting soon, so we will find out how accurate the test is.

I'm interested in this new vigorous seedling, please update this thread with the taste when ripe!
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: fliptop on April 05, 2023, 05:28:03 AM
Will do, Oolie! I'm afraid the current heat and drought may cause them to drop . . . ☹️
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: fliptop on April 06, 2023, 06:10:36 AM
Oolie, I've not yet encountered a spicy orange smell in mango leaves/sap. Looking forward to a taste report on that one.
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: skhan on April 06, 2023, 05:39:42 PM
After a spectacular show of flowers I only have two fruits to show for it. Most the flowers work male.
The sap has what I describe as a green mango smell which I'm my exp means a classic flavor.
So hopefully it's different enough from Edward and will resolve the flower imbalance

I'll report it with flavor in the summer
(https://i.postimg.cc/tsdy4hYG/PXL-20230406-204608875.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/tsdy4hYG)

(https://i.postimg.cc/cgzGbh5w/PXL-20230406-204612938.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/cgzGbh5w)

(https://i.postimg.cc/njrt2gTn/PXL-20230406-204630514.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/njrt2gTn)
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: Oolie on April 06, 2023, 05:57:30 PM
Oolie, I've not yet encountered a spicy orange smell in mango leaves/sap. Looking forward to a taste report on that one.
Haven't had any others which smell this way. Different from LZ, different from CC and other Gary descendants. Looking forward to the fruit, it's 4th year in the ground.
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: jbirdfunk on May 01, 2023, 12:40:44 AM
I fruited a Sugarloaf (E4) seedling. See page 8 of this thread. Last year was the first year it fruited so I need to evaluate it some more but so far it seems like it’s a clone of the actual E4 with some very minor differences which may be attributed to the rootstock or environmental factors.

In my review, I compared the real E4 Fruit, which is grafted to my multigraft Turpentine rootstock tree to my Seedling E4 fruit that was grown and fruited on my E4 seedling tree. My multigraft E4 tree is in full sun but the graft is towards the lower branches so the leave’s around the graft don’t get as much sun as my E4 Seedling tree. My E4 seedling tree is right next to a fence and gets a lot of shading because the fence is South facing but the fruit were in the upper canopy of the tree where it got decent Sunlight which may explain why the real E4 skin color stayed green whereas my Seedlings E4 skin color changed to a mottled Yellow/brown. My E4 seedling fruit may have also been slightly sun burned.

Either way, I’m super happy with the fruit from my E4 seedling because it’s a relatively vigorous grower and its blooms are disease resistant.

I have two other E4 seedlings which should fruit this year or next. I would highly recommend people in Southern California try growing out some E4 seedlings.

Simon

Where can you get an E4 here in San Diego?
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: Oolie on May 01, 2023, 02:41:28 PM
I fruited a Sugarloaf (E4) seedling. See page 8 of this thread. Last year was the first year it fruited so I need to evaluate it some more but so far it seems like it’s a clone of the actual E4 with some very minor differences which may be attributed to the rootstock or environmental factors.

In my review, I compared the real E4 Fruit, which is grafted to my multigraft Turpentine rootstock tree to my Seedling E4 fruit that was grown and fruited on my E4 seedling tree. My multigraft E4 tree is in full sun but the graft is towards the lower branches so the leave’s around the graft don’t get as much sun as my E4 Seedling tree. My E4 seedling tree is right next to a fence and gets a lot of shading because the fence is South facing but the fruit were in the upper canopy of the tree where it got decent Sunlight which may explain why the real E4 skin color stayed green whereas my Seedlings E4 skin color changed to a mottled Yellow/brown. My E4 seedling fruit may have also been slightly sun burned.

Either way, I’m super happy with the fruit from my E4 seedling because it’s a relatively vigorous grower and its blooms are disease resistant.

I have two other E4 seedlings which should fruit this year or next. I would highly recommend people in Southern California try growing out some E4 seedlings.

Simon

Where can you get an E4 here in San Diego?

That's a real challenge, I think most of the people who grow it in SD are grafting scions from Florida onto established rootstock trees in the ground.

Since it's poly your best bet is to acquire seed and go from there.

The seeds are often aborted in this variety, so if you find someone selling seed, make sure they open the husk.
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: fliptop on May 01, 2023, 03:00:52 PM
And then there were four . . .

Strong winds this past weekend claimed a couple more fruit from the Coconut Cream seedling. One of the remaining four fruits is small, so I'm thinking it won't make it. Hoping to try at least a couple this year and even more next. These smell so piney!

(https://i.postimg.cc/CnfJCBkM/IMG-20230430-213908556-3.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/CnfJCBkM)
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: Oolie on May 01, 2023, 11:49:25 PM
I went through the grove today and found a seedling I purchased from exotica that bounced back from containerization and appears to be outgrowing the gopher damage. Fingers crossed, as the sap has a Gary type smell. Probably at least 2 years from fruiting, 3 seems more likely.

A Juile seed with a Gary type smell was planted next door earlier this year. It came from a grove with several likely Gary descendants.
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: fliptop on May 17, 2023, 05:05:46 PM
I am now down to three Coconut Cream Seedling Mangos.

Here are three that fell off the tree earlier:
(https://i.postimg.cc/7JSrzsCN/IMG-20230503-163059611-5.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/7JSrzsCN)
I left them on the shelf and forgot about them until coming across them this afternoon. The skin was really wrinkled and they were soft. I've eaten small Sugarloafs that fell from the tree and got similarly wrinkled and soft (they have a great pineapple taste then), so I figured I'd see what these were like. The flesh was deep orange and fiberless, and the piney smell was nearly gone. It was actually tasty, even at this immature stage--it kind of reminded me of Ice Cream Mango or that Talenti Alfonso sorbet. Granted, this is from one immature drop, and may not be a representation of a mature fruit (though I'm sure the mature flesh will possess the orange color and fiberlessness).

The seed had no husk and was monoembryonic. Not sure if it was viable, but it was planted.

I'm getting a "502 Bad Gateway" message when trying to add images, but will add a couple images when I am able.
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: fliptop on May 17, 2023, 05:26:01 PM
Hmmm, the "post images" option seems to be back for now . . . Here are the three remaining fruits on the Coconut Cream seedling tree:

(https://i.postimg.cc/5YXn6d8T/IMG-20230516-075712346-HDR-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/5YXn6d8T)
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: fliptop on May 17, 2023, 05:50:51 PM
Here's the immature fruit. The flesh was a deeper orange than what it seems here.

(https://i.postimg.cc/21DhnVtd/IMG-20230517-160829522-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/21DhnVtd)
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: sapote on May 17, 2023, 09:34:31 PM
Come on.  I don't think you can tell the flavor profile from that!

Well, you can tell the different smell of Southeast varieties vs Indian from crushing the little fruits.
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: skhan on June 04, 2023, 06:39:33 PM
After a spectacular show of flowers I only have two fruits to show for it. Most the flowers work male.
The sap has what I describe as a green mango smell which I'm my exp means a classic flavor.
So hopefully it's different enough from Edward and will resolve the flower imbalance

I'll report it with flavor in the summer
(https://i.postimg.cc/tsdy4hYG/PXL-20230406-204608875.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/tsdy4hYG)

(https://i.postimg.cc/cgzGbh5w/PXL-20230406-204612938.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/cgzGbh5w)

(https://i.postimg.cc/njrt2gTn/PXL-20230406-204630514.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/njrt2gTn)

One survived to maturity
Started turning yellow on the tree.

(https://i.postimg.cc/WqZG1TgH/PXL-20230603-191527526.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/WqZG1TgH)

(https://i.postimg.cc/qhScrzhK/PXL-20230603-191534885.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/qhScrzhK)

(https://i.postimg.cc/jwL6Bz5K/PXL-20230603-191538096.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/jwL6Bz5K)
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: fliptop on June 04, 2023, 07:24:09 PM
Very cool, skhan. Looking forward to taste review.
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: Eggo on June 04, 2023, 11:54:46 PM
Very awesome!
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: simon_grow on June 05, 2023, 11:42:10 PM
Nice looking fruit, please let us know how it tastes!

Simon
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: skhan on June 06, 2023, 07:31:12 PM
After a spectacular show of flowers I only have two fruits to show for it. Most the flowers work male.
The sap has what I describe as a green mango smell which I'm my exp means a classic flavor.
So hopefully it's different enough from Edward and will resolve the flower imbalance

I'll report it with flavor in the summer
(https://i.postimg.cc/tsdy4hYG/PXL-20230406-204608875.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/tsdy4hYG)

(https://i.postimg.cc/cgzGbh5w/PXL-20230406-204612938.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/cgzGbh5w)

(https://i.postimg.cc/njrt2gTn/PXL-20230406-204630514.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/njrt2gTn)

One survived to maturity
Started turning yellow on the tree.

(https://i.postimg.cc/WqZG1TgH/PXL-20230603-191527526.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/WqZG1TgH)

(https://i.postimg.cc/qhScrzhK/PXL-20230603-191534885.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/qhScrzhK)

(https://i.postimg.cc/jwL6Bz5K/PXL-20230603-191538096.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/jwL6Bz5K)


(https://i.postimg.cc/1gPp7Hj7/PXL-20230606-225802468.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/1gPp7Hj7)

(https://i.postimg.cc/cgLf0JZQ/PXL-20230606-230046466.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/cgLf0JZQ)

(https://i.postimg.cc/B8g2rFWS/PXL-20230606-231138792.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/B8g2rFWS)

We have an Edward on the right and the seedling (what I'm referring to as Canal...simply because it is on a canal bank)

Flavor
So this is solidly in the Classic camp. (maybe classic acid)
It seems I might have left it for one day past its prime since the area near the seed was going a little overripe.

Under the skin is really firm and that area had a slightly more pronounced bitterness than a typical Edward, even had a crunch to it.
Just enough to know that it's there, nothing crazy but in my book, it does deduct some point

Edward has more of a smooth slightly viscous sweet juice where this is more fruity (Both classic in flavor)
When compared Canal was a more exciting flavor due to the addition of acidity. (i can't really tell if it was sweeter since the acidity will throw off the comparison...no brix meter)

No fiber, good seed-to-flesh ratio.

First-year fruiting and flowering, flowered prolifically, fruit set not great

Its right on my canal bank and no disease issues of the fruit, my Edward gets a little anthracnose.

The best way to describe it by means of other mangos is the outer part of the flesh is like an Edward (a day or two before its prime) and the inside is like a Baliey's Marvel

My verdict is I'll give it another two years to see if some of the negatives improve. (shelf life, production)
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: simon_grow on June 06, 2023, 11:55:38 PM
Thanks for the update. It’s great that it seems disease resistant so far and the flavor profile sounds promising, especially for a first fruiting. Hopefully the fruit quality will improve even more with some age.

Simon
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: fliptop on June 07, 2023, 07:30:31 PM
Thanks for the write-up, skhan. Does it seem like it has uneven ripening (crunchy by skin and overripe by seed)? Or jelly seed? Looking forward to future reviews!
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: fliptop on June 19, 2023, 03:54:14 PM

(https://i.postimg.cc/303XrGHD/IMG-20230617-201834559-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/303XrGHD)


(https://i.postimg.cc/QFFpMsvS/IMG-20230617-201902265-3.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/QFFpMsvS)

Decided to pick the three Coconut Cream Seedling Mangos, as they were turning yellow. The stems were nearly completely dry, and what sap there was was clear. Hopefully I didn't pick them too late. We shall see

(https://i.postimg.cc/fVYRCrdD/IMG-20230619-133108204-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/fVYRCrdD)
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: fliptop on June 26, 2023, 06:37:37 PM
The Coconut Cream seedlings are starting to feel soft, so we decided to cut into one of the three we got this year:

(https://i.postimg.cc/0b0qxZTb/IMG-20230626-174453727-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/0b0qxZTb)

It was too soon.

Flesh felt a little chalky from being underripe. Still, that gave it a little tartness. Did not have a strong sweetness. I detected a tart orange flavor, but my girlfriend did not. Super minimal fibre, comparable to a Pickering. It had that piney Carrie taste, especially by the skin.

I need someone who appreciates this flavor profile to evaluate it if we get a bigger crop next year (Alex, I'm lookin' at you).

(https://i.postimg.cc/bGXMtncK/IMG-20230626-174527801-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/bGXMtncK)

The seed in this one is free-floating within the husk. Will see if the seed is mono or poly shortly.

(https://i.postimg.cc/bSXsXLKm/IMG-20230626-175042843-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/bSXsXLKm)
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: Oolie on June 26, 2023, 08:22:33 PM
No shortage of Indian mango lovers around here.
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: Greater Good on June 27, 2023, 06:25:07 PM
Surprised not a mention of  Rosigold or Rosa in the entire thread. Polyembryonic and early season fruit. Why not seedling propagation?
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: John B on June 28, 2023, 01:00:39 PM
Can anyone confirm that Bombay is polyembryonic?  I thought is was monoembryobic but this neglected seedling is showing otherwise. This seed was already in a bit of soil when I received it so I never checked it out. 

(https://i.postimg.cc/LYDcpdHx/PXL-20230628-165221664.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/LYDcpdHx)
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: FruitFool on June 29, 2023, 12:20:36 AM
Surprised not a mention of  Rosigold or Rosa in the entire thread. Polyembryonic and early season fruit. Why not seedling propagation?

Not many fans of Rosigold, I guess.

Fruitfool
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: fliptop on June 29, 2023, 12:51:54 PM
Coconut Cream seedling seed seems monoembryonic.

(https://i.postimg.cc/5H79FHZf/IMG-20230629-114733431-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/5H79FHZf)

(https://i.postimg.cc/D8r2Pptj/IMG-20230629-114742875-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/D8r2Pptj)

(https://i.postimg.cc/FYGN2dF0/IMG-20230629-114751073-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/FYGN2dF0)
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: gozp on June 29, 2023, 01:15:13 PM
Coconut Cream seedling seed seems monoembryonic.

(https://i.postimg.cc/5H79FHZf/IMG-20230629-114733431-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/5H79FHZf)

(https://i.postimg.cc/D8r2Pptj/IMG-20230629-114742875-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/D8r2Pptj)

(https://i.postimg.cc/FYGN2dF0/IMG-20230629-114751073-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/FYGN2dF0)

I had a few coconut cream fruit from last year that turned out to be poly.
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: fliptop on June 29, 2023, 01:23:10 PM
Yes, Coconut Cream is poly, but this seedling appears to be mono. I'll hopefully know for sure when it sprouts. I have two others to eventually plant, as well.
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: simon_grow on June 29, 2023, 03:49:29 PM
Can anyone confirm that Bombay is polyembryonic?  I thought is was monoembryobic but this neglected seedling is showing otherwise. This seed was already in a bit of soil when I received it so I never checked it out. 

(https://i.postimg.cc/LYDcpdHx/PXL-20230628-165221664.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/LYDcpdHx)

Bombay is Monoembryonic from the fruit I sampled.

Fliptop, thanks for the report. Maybe the fruit will be better next year and especially if allowed to ripen a bit more.

Simon
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: sapote on June 30, 2023, 04:59:24 PM
Coconut Cream seedling seed seems monoembryonic.


You need to peel off that thin brow skin to see if it's popy or mono based on the look of the white "brain" structure.
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: fliptop on June 30, 2023, 06:21:09 PM
Thanks, sapote! Have two more to plant soon and will check those, though I'm tempted to dig up the one from the photo now :)
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: simon_grow on June 30, 2023, 06:28:07 PM
I’ve had Coconut Cream mangos with poly and mono type seeds. From my recollection, just about every Polyembryonic mango variety I’ve sampled sometimes produce seeds that are mono. I have not determined if these mono type looking seeds are actually clones or if they are a zygotic seedling.

Simon
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: fliptop on June 30, 2023, 09:25:08 PM
I disinterred the seed and took off what I could of the brown skin, and this is what I saw:

(https://i.postimg.cc/BLkh79HV/IMG-20230630-194103870-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/BLkh79HV)

(https://i.postimg.cc/Czjv721c/IMG-20230630-194115279-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Czjv721c)
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: gozp on July 02, 2023, 01:00:46 PM
I have tried multiple pina colada & pineapple pleasure on Turpentine as well as on a manila seedling rootstock in my area (San Fernando Valley) the mature grafts die on me, however, not the rootstock. I do not know whats causing it, i guess they are susceptible to infection.

So I'm growing multiple pina colada seedlings which leaves are symmetrical to pina colada.

My seedlings took the winter like a champ.

If anyone in Socal are looking to grow these seedlings, i have them for sale.

https://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=51596.0
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: kapps on July 02, 2023, 01:13:38 PM
Can anyone confirm that Bombay is polyembryonic?  I thought is was monoembryobic but this neglected seedling is showing otherwise. This seed was already in a bit of soil when I received it so I never checked it out. 

(https://i.postimg.cc/LYDcpdHx/PXL-20230628-165221664.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/LYDcpdHx)

Bombay is Monoembryonic from the fruit I sampled.

Fliptop, thanks for the report. Maybe the fruit will be better next year and especially if allowed to ripen a bit more.

Simon

The Bombay I had a few years ago was monoembryonic.
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: John B on July 03, 2023, 12:55:06 AM
Can anyone confirm that Bombay is polyembryonic?  I thought is was monoembryobic but this neglected seedling is showing otherwise. This seed was already in a bit of soil when I received it so I never checked it out. 

(https://i.postimg.cc/LYDcpdHx/PXL-20230628-165221664.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/LYDcpdHx)

Bombay is Monoembryonic from the fruit I sampled.

Fliptop, thanks for the report. Maybe the fruit will be better next year and especially if allowed to ripen a bit more.

Simon

The Bombay I had a few years ago was monoembryonic.

Thank you both. I may keep this one and approach graft it to an in ground tree since it seemed handle this last winter just fine.
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: fliptop on July 11, 2023, 07:04:57 PM
Well, the seedling Coconut Cream with the Indian profile is polyembryonic . . .

(https://i.postimg.cc/gX58mm3s/IMG-20230711-171934912-HDR-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/gX58mm3s)
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: K-Rimes on July 11, 2023, 07:42:42 PM

(https://i.postimg.cc/34RTDrMF/8-A642-C9-B-266-A-4974-ADCD-FED698-DDD7-C3.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/34RTDrMF)

This orange essence is about a year in ground at my office. It looks like it had some mower or wacker damage. Should I just try a new seedling?
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: Oolie on July 11, 2023, 08:30:16 PM
Looks fine, just some anthracnose. It's a mono variety, so it's not true to seed. Crush some of the little sprouts it has and get a smell of the sap to get an idea of the flavor it may have.

For what it's worth, I really prefer the aroma of OE, so its seedlings may be good too.

Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: fliptop on July 23, 2023, 09:32:12 AM
I planted all three seeds from the fruit I got off my Coconut Cream seedling. Definitely a polyembryonic mango (one of the seeds has produced only one sprout so far, but the other two have produced multiple sprouts).

(https://i.postimg.cc/nsWdwpq3/IMG-20230723-083050322-HDR-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/nsWdwpq3)

Once they grow a little more, I will crush the leaves to see if these also have the Indian pine resin scent.

I am no grafting wiz, I'm actually quite horrible at it, but managed thus far to get 4 out of 6 takes with scions from this seedling. Here is one pushing at 3 1/2 weeks:

(https://i.postimg.cc/JGbzrhnB/IMG-20230723-085535250-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JGbzrhnB)
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: Elijah on July 23, 2023, 03:39:24 PM
I planted all three seeds from the fruit I got off my Coconut Cream seedling. Definitely a polyembryonic mango (one of the seeds has produced only one sprout so far, but the other two have produced multiple sprouts).

(https://i.postimg.cc/nsWdwpq3/IMG-20230723-083050322-HDR-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/nsWdwpq3)

Once they grow a little more, I will crush the leaves to see if these also have the Indian pine resin scent.

I am no grafting wiz, I'm actually quite horrible at it, but managed thus far to get 4 out of 6 takes with scions from this seedling. Here is one pushing at 3 1/2 weeks:

(https://i.postimg.cc/JGbzrhnB/IMG-20230723-085535250-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JGbzrhnB)

How old is your rootstock? What mango variety scion did you graft onto?
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: fliptop on July 23, 2023, 04:20:23 PM
Hi, Elijah, I grafted 6 scions from my fruiting Coconut Cream seedling onto different rootstock. I've gotten better about keeping notes of rootstock this year.

Of the 4 scions that appear to have taken, two are on Walmart Tommy Atkins rootstock from this year,. one is on Edward rootstock from last year, and one is on what I *think* is Turpentine rootstock that's a couple years old.
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: hipasfolk on July 23, 2023, 04:33:41 PM
I planted some polyembrionic seeds of a few mangos I was given and am trying to determine which seedlings to keep. I read crushing the leaves was supposed to help determine which would be clones but I have had no contact with the original tree for comparison.
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: Oolie on July 23, 2023, 04:44:08 PM
I planted some polyembrionic seeds of a few mangos I was given and am trying to determine which seedlings to keep. I read crushing the leaves was supposed to help determine which would be clones but I have had no contact with the original tree for comparison.

What's the original tree?
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: hipasfolk on July 23, 2023, 04:49:06 PM
I planted some polyembrionic seeds of a few mangos I was given and am trying to determine which seedlings to keep. I read crushing the leaves was supposed to help determine which would be clones but I have had no contact with the original tree for comparison.

What's the original tree?

Unfortunately I don't know, the person I got the mangos from was given them and didn't know either. The taste was excellent despite having been somewhat fibrous.
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: Oolie on July 23, 2023, 04:51:08 PM
Close your eyes and remember the taste. Then crush the leaves and try to find one that matches, several are likely to.
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: EddieF on July 28, 2023, 04:06:42 PM
Apologize for not reading whole thread, question- can mono have 2 shoots?
This is Cogshall. 
Thanks,
Ed

(https://i.postimg.cc/QH2M8CZx/3418-C82-C-D7-AB-4-FB9-9755-13-E22-E11-E951.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/QH2M8CZx)
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: JakeFruit on September 06, 2023, 08:42:47 AM
Apologize for not reading whole thread, question- can mono have 2 shoots?
This is Cogshall. 
Thanks,
Ed

(https://i.postimg.cc/QH2M8CZx/3418-C82-C-D7-AB-4-FB9-9755-13-E22-E11-E951.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/QH2M8CZx)
True mono can have multiple shoots coming off the same collar, but they'll share the same root system and separating them successfully is pretty unlikely. When I see a mono with multiple shoots coming off the same collar, I cull all but the strongest asap; seeds like these seem to always have more problems (I don't bother grafting to them, if I have enough other candidates).


It's also not black or white when it comes to mango seeds, you can occasionally get a mono or poly from a variety known as the opposite.
Title: Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
Post by: Oolie on September 06, 2023, 02:48:55 PM
In the rare event of multiple seed in the husk of a mono type, Har pointed out before that it's rare, but no different from twins.