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Messages - Jibro

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1
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citrus daoxianensis (Daoxian wild mandarin)
« on: February 11, 2024, 09:00:53 AM »
I have Daoxian Wild from Adavo grafted on Citrumelo for about 4 years. It has small fruits 2-3 cm, 10-15g, but they ripen late, When it flowered at the end of April, the fruits were still green in December, I picked them in March fully colored.
The skin is not as bumpy as in your picture, the taste is different from normal mandarins, not too sour as I would expect from a wild mandarin and quite good.












2
A Czech collector of rare citrus plants is looking for these 2 varieties (plants or budwood available in EU)

Zadaidai (C. rokugatsu) - https://citrusvariety.ucr.edu/crc3473

Pompelmus tengu (Tengu mikan) Synonyms: Kinkuneba, Citrus tengu - it was imported to Czech rep from former USSR, but it looks like it's no longer in Czech collections, maybe it got further into Europe...

This collector is offering a lot of rare citrus for exchange from his collection, or will pay for budwood or plant. If you have these varieties or have any information where to get them in EU please contact me. Thanks

3
I read somewhere that Meiwa has high polyembryony, your experience seems to confirm it, so it is very difficult to get hybrids when Meiwa is a seed parent, but not impossible, thanks for this information.

4
Thanks for the link but this study is hard to understand and diggest for me :) I did not expect so much diversity in fruit size, flesh content, skin colour etc from Chandler x Fortune. I think it shows it is worth repeat the same cross many time to get something good like F68 or CH61 on the picture...


 There is access to full text: https://sci-hub.st/10.1007/s11295-015-0949-8

I want also make cross Meiwa x poncirus, have you used Meiwa successfully as a seed parent to produce hybrids?


5
Sorry, but you can't  really conclude from one example that Trifoliate as a seed parent will give hybrids with better taste... There are probably hundreds or more genes responsible for fruit quality and as Morton's siblings show Trifoliate as a seed parent is not producing hybrids with better taste, Morton just have somehow a better combination of these genes than others...

Please don't take this as a criticism, but I think there is a lot of confusion about citrus varieties, origins and identification and there is no need to add more ;) Of course I'm glad for another enthusiast trying to cross citrus and I look forward to hearing more about your new hybrids and crosses, good luck. Here is a source of information on the origins of Morton and its siblings:

https://journals.flvc.org/fshs/article/download/100828/96780

Quote
Reciprocal crosses were made of P. trifoliata and Ruby sweet orange; 54 citrange hybrids were produced. Eleven different citranges—Norton, Morton, Sanford, Willitts, Phelps, Coleman,
Rustic, Savage, Saunders, Cunningham, and Etonia—were grown from seeds of a single fruit of P. trifoliata crossed with pollen from a single flower of Ruby sweet orange (Swingle 1913).

The citranges plainly showed characteristics of both parents, but they varied widely (Swingle,1911). In all cases, most leaves were trifoliolate,but a few unifoliolate leaves occurred occasionally on some trees. All were evergreen, but fruit size, shape, and color varied greatly. The Morton fruit (Webber, 1906) was large, round, smooth,and orange-colored; the Coleman fruit (Webber,1907) was depressed-globose, yellow, and fuzzy; the Willits fruit (Webber and Swingle, 1905) had a large percentage of fingered forms; the Rustic fruit (Webber, 1907) often were double fruits; the Phelps fruit (Swingle, 1913) was very bitter; and the Saunders fruit (Swingle, 1913) was small and less bitter than the rest. In allthe hybrids the acrid flavor and cold resistance were inherited from the P. trifoliata parent. Because the juice is so bitter, these fruits have no prospect for commercial usefulness.

6
The greenhouse had high humidity during winter and the soil was normally moist, I started watering in the spring when there was a big difference between day and night temperatures from 35°C to a light frost at night.

7
I tested Eremorange in an unheated greenhouse this winter and it was undamaged and started growing without any problems
Inside the greenhouse there were many freezing nights during the winter, worst was one week with 5 consecutive days (temperature °C, minimum in °F  14,3) : -7,5| - 9,8 | -8 | -7 | -7,5
Eremorange was more hardy than other plants in the greenhouse:
Sudachi - some leaf damage,
SP Urban - some leaf and twig damage,
Citrumelo hybrid seedling - lost almost all leaves,
Clem-Yuz 2-2 lost almost all leaves and some twigs
N1 Tri Voss hybrid seedling - lost most of the leaves and twigs




8
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« on: November 07, 2022, 05:14:02 AM »
Nice report, can you add how big Conestoga fruits are or weight and how seedy they are on average?  Are Conestoga fruits ripen at the same time as poncirus or 1-2 weeks later? Thank you and congrats, I think even a small improvement compared to trifoliate fruits with the same hardiness as poncirus is good progress for people in USDA Zone 6.

9
I grafted FF Trifoliate with 5 other varieties in 2019 on Poncirus rootstock, it flowered every year but always dropped fruitlet later, FF  had ~ 20 fruitlet this year but they have light color in comparison with regular trifoliate, and most of them dropped already.
I got a small seedling FF Trifoliate 9 years ago and still no fruits, actually regular trifoliate will have fruits sooner than this most likely...
Grafting on strong rootstock helps a lot but it may still take 4 - 5 years when FF will have ripped fruits.





10
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« on: May 05, 2022, 05:32:47 AM »
Nice fruits, looks like the flower buds are the same type as on Poncirus, did you try flowers if they are fragrant or without smell as Poncirus flowers?
Fruitless are also hairy like Poncirus, let's hope they will have somehow better taste  :) I am looking forward to your next information... 

11
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: cold test on seedling New Zealand lemonade
« on: January 03, 2022, 08:18:52 AM »
Interesting experiment... I would like to know too how hardy NZ Lemonade is, I want to use it for crossing with Trifoliate so your data will be usefull for me, thanks.

12
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« on: January 03, 2022, 08:15:08 AM »
I think even small improvements over Trifoliate fruits are still a huge step forward if you consider that your Citranges have almost the same hardiness as Trifoliate. It is really impressive that you achieved this in a relatively short time I am looking forward to your next report...

13
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Kumquat x Poncirus
« on: December 08, 2021, 10:10:14 AM »
The nice red color is inherited from Flying Dragon, normal Trifoliate and its hybrids have only yellow-orange autumn color.
I live in a similar climate and I think our winters are too much for F1 Poncirus hybrids. Marcin, I would suggest taking some cuttings a storing them in a refrigerator for grafting, if you do not have backup grafted plants already...one night with -18°C or - 20°C will most likely destroy them completely...

14
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« on: September 02, 2021, 12:02:11 PM »
Congrats, it's good to have confirmation that these different leaves are indeed a sign of tetraploidy.

15
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Grafting poncirus and flying dragon
« on: July 27, 2021, 09:29:00 AM »
If you want small flowering trifoliate, the best option will be Fast Flowering trifoliate from Laaz  I think even if you graft mature poncirus on small PT rootstock it may still take several years until the plant starts flowering. I grafted several different trifoliate on one big PT rootstock last year, the plant is already big but no flowers this year...

17
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: N1triVoss
« on: June 27, 2021, 10:47:33 AM »
The original precocious seedling N1Tri Voss F2 has a third flower on a new branch growing under the first pair of leaves, the flower is again incomplete... :(



Grafted plant on poncirus is 70 cm heigh and has two flowers too :)







18
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: N1triVoss
« on: May 30, 2021, 05:10:49 AM »
5 month old seedling N1 Tri Voss has first flower  :). I had got N1 Tri Voss fruits from Petr Broza, he is growing N1 Tri Voss in big greenhouse with many other citrus varieties, so this seedling may be also hybrid from open pollination...


This seedling has a second flower right now...is it also common? I thought that these one year old seedlings have only one flower...Now I have a dilemma, cut it or not in the next spring :)



The first flower was a little more developed than the second, so no positive progress unfortunately...








This grapefruit-like early flowering on the top of stem growth occurs often in N1tri seedlings.
It is one of the reasons why I believe  that this variety is a a hybrid of ichangensis  with some sort of citrumelo.
These flowers are giving very rarely fruits because the whole plant at this  stage  is rather weak.
But if you cut them near the ground, there is a chance that new emerging  growths  will flower on the tops next spring.

I've cut the early flowering seedling as Ilya suggested and he was right  :) cut seedling had two new branches with two flowers on the top, unfortunately, both flowers kind of dried off before were open.

I grafted cuttings to poncirus rootstock and there is no sign of flowers but it grows vigorously.









19
Citrus Buy, Sell, & Trade / Re: Red fingerlime seeds
« on: December 18, 2020, 05:42:04 AM »
I purchased Finger lime seeds from Australia once, they were from a plant with big green fruits. I managed to keep them alive for 4-5 years and they did not develop any flowers, unfortunately, I lost them after one winter.
I do recommend to grow them from seed, they have quite an interesting appearance, more like cactus than citrus.





20
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Poncirus fruit comparison
« on: December 07, 2020, 01:20:34 PM »
Thanks Jim for clarification, even if only one fruit was that big, it still shows the great potential that poncirus have for improving fruit quality. I think if someone crazy enough  ;) will try to grow poncirus as fruit tree with a lot of fertilization, pruning and fruit thinning, fruit size may increase even further...
Btw I grow Spartan apple too it was very popular variety in the past here and I still like the taste.

21
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Poncirus fruit comparison
« on: December 06, 2020, 05:27:25 AM »
  The largest one I've found ( not shown here) was about seven cm-somewhat less than 3 inches.

7 cm is really impressive for poncirus fruit, some are even seedless, you have really something special. Largest poncirus fruit that I found so far had 6cm, these big fruits are significantly better for processing and culinary use...

22
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Some rare variety hardy seedlings
« on: December 06, 2020, 05:05:01 AM »
These first leaves are often different from mother plant. You will get typical ichangensis leaves most likely later...

One of my N1 Tri Voss seedlings had similar progress


23
Citrus Buy, Sell, & Trade / Re: Fast flowering dwarf trifoliata
« on: October 13, 2020, 04:41:11 PM »
How long does a seed grown Poncirus tifoliata take to reach flowering age?
8-10 years in zone 6, at least in the Central European climate or when the trunk diameter is around 2cm (0.78 inches)

24
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: N1triVoss
« on: September 07, 2020, 09:38:57 AM »
5 month old seedling N1 Tri Voss has first flower  :). I had got N1 Tri Voss fruits from Petr Broza, he is growing N1 Tri Voss in big greenhouse with many other citrus varieties, so this seedling may be also hybrid from open pollination...


This seedling has a second flower right now...is it also common? I thought that these one year old seedlings have only one flower...Now I have a dilemma, cut it or not in the next spring :)



The first flower was a little more developed than the second, so no positive progress unfortunately...







25
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Poncirus fruit comparison
« on: September 01, 2020, 03:04:37 PM »
I am not sure about zygotic nature, seeds were fully developed in last two years and seedlings from previous years looks also uniform with only few abnormal. Is it possible that high number of undeveloped seeds this year was caused by unusual growing condition: indoors during winter months with low light and low humidity, with stable temperature around 20°C?

I planted all the seeds, I've only put the 6 big seeds into separate container...so we will see.

Seeds - 2018



Seeds - 2019



Seedlings - 2018 fruit



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