Author Topic: Greenhouse, RootMaker pots for tropicals and fruit "porn"  (Read 79494 times)

Mark in Texas

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Re: Greenhouse, RootMaker pots for tropicals and fruit "porn"
« Reply #225 on: June 07, 2019, 08:06:27 AM »
Nice updates Mark. Pineapple Pleasure is an excellent fruit.

I’ve been telling people that flowering plants/fruit trees need Nitrogen for a long time but you have to be very careful about how much Nitrogen you add. For fruit trees, they need very low levels of Nitrogen compared to Potassium for fruit development. The K is used by the plant to grow the fruit and directly adds to the total soluble solids.

The Nitrogen will help to get larger blooms and help with fruit retention but too much Nitrogen will throw the tree off balance, especially during early flowering. Too much Nitrogen prior to flowering will increase leaf Nitrogen levels and above a specific threshold, it can actually inhibit flowering and promote vegetative growth.

Each type of plant has its own specific Nitrogen threshold. Lychees in particular are especially sensitive to this and even after fruit set, too much Nitrogen combined with heavy rains can cause entire loss of crop at the expense of vegetative growth.

I forget what the threshold leaf Nitrogen levels are for Mangos but I’m sure I posted it somewhere on the form before.

Simon

Hi Simon,

Right now I'm pushing for growth so they're getting what everything is getting either my old Polyon 18-4-9 or Osmocote Indoor/Outdoor which is also high N food.   The fact I got a few fruits hanging is a blessing.  It set a lot.  I do have potassium sulphate and gypsum which I add to the pots as a supplement.  I have no scientific basis to go on, just TFF anecdotal evidence because "everyone is doing it".  I've seen video orchard walk throughs where it was noted that some mature trees had no fruit at all out of dozens.... I was shocked.  Har and 2 ladies were in that interview, you might have seen it. They were discussing some of the Zill varieties.  My citrus is getting leggy but I blame that on a lack of light.  I need to blast the mildew and dirt off the covering.

Seawalnut, that is correct in most cases.  Avocados are different.  Those that are pure Guatemalan or hybrids always have reddish juvenile leaves.  All my mature leaves are green.

P is the most abused macro out there.  I got away from the high "bloom" P foods like 15-30-15 many years ago and only use low P foods. Citrus for example prefers a 5-1-3 NPK ratio and that's confirmed by tissue analysis.  Vendors are selling what they think you want to believe or hear when it comes to "bloom" or "rooting" foods, not what the plant performs best with.  Most soils are void of N. I would think that includes all Florida soils.


« Last Edit: June 07, 2019, 08:08:09 AM by Mark in Texas »

SeaWalnut

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Re: Greenhouse, RootMaker pots for tropicals and fruit "porn"
« Reply #226 on: June 07, 2019, 09:04:51 PM »
Most soils are void of N because it leaves the soil into the atmosphere.Its a gas after all,while Phosphorus its a solid that stays .The ph its most likely a problem with the P because from 6 to lower it becomes non available for plants and you can fed as much P as you want but the plants will still starve of it.But for mango where you add gipsum and lime to raise the ph that shouldnt be a problem.
I use high N fertiliser also,10-1-4 ,urine and the otther fertiliser i use a lot is wood ash 0-1-4 NPK. But i have somme  almonds growing really red in verry poore soil and im thinking to add a little P fertiliser for them. Might plant Gevuina instead of those almonds since its a plant that need verry low P ( it can actually kill it if its too much).

Mark in Texas

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Re: Greenhouse, RootMaker pots for tropicals and fruit "porn"
« Reply #227 on: June 08, 2019, 09:23:31 AM »
Most soils are void of N because it leaves the soil into the atmosphere.Its a gas after all,while Phosphorus its a solid that stays .The ph its most likely a problem with the P because from 6 to lower it becomes non available for plants and you can fed as much P as you want but the plants will still starve of it.But for mango where you add gipsum and lime to raise the ph that shouldnt be a problem.
I use high N fertiliser also,10-1-4 ,urine and the otther fertiliser i use a lot is wood ash 0-1-4 NPK. But i have somme  almonds growing really red in verry poore soil and im thinking to add a little P fertiliser for them. Might plant Gevuina instead of those almonds since its a plant that need verry low P ( it can actually kill it if its too much).

Be careful with the urine.  Outside is OK because of rain leeching it.  I killed my precious Sharwil avocado tree by peeing into the pot.  Our urine contains salts that can build up.

Get a leaf tissue analysis done and find out what you're working with. 

Wood ash is highly caustic.

My greenhouse soils have a pH of around 6.0, rainwater runs 5.3 because of anerobic organics "fermenting". 

spaugh

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Re: Greenhouse, RootMaker pots for tropicals and fruit "porn"
« Reply #228 on: June 08, 2019, 10:07:40 AM »
Mark, I snapped this pic of my young nabal tree for you.  The tree was planted about 1.5 years ago.  Its got a really nice christmas tree shape and strong (very thick) upright branches.  Nice looking tree.  I grafted another one onto an in ground seedling.  This will make a good one to hang other varieties onto if you wanted to do that.



« Last Edit: June 08, 2019, 11:02:01 AM by spaugh »
Brad Spaugh

SeaWalnut

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Re: Greenhouse, RootMaker pots for tropicals and fruit "porn"
« Reply #229 on: June 08, 2019, 07:19:26 PM »
Most soils are void of N because it leaves the soil into the atmosphere.Its a gas after all,while Phosphorus its a solid that stays .The ph its most likely a problem with the P because from 6 to lower it becomes non available for plants and you can fed as much P as you want but the plants will still starve of it.But for mango where you add gipsum and lime to raise the ph that shouldnt be a problem.
I use high N fertiliser also,10-1-4 ,urine and the otther fertiliser i use a lot is wood ash 0-1-4 NPK. But i have somme  almonds growing really red in verry poore soil and im thinking to add a little P fertiliser for them. Might plant Gevuina instead of those almonds since its a plant that need verry low P ( it can actually kill it if its too much).

Be careful with the urine.  Outside is OK because of rain leeching it.  I killed my precious Sharwil avocado tree by peeing into the pot.  Our urine contains salts that can build up.

Get a leaf tissue analysis done and find out what you're working with. 

Wood ash is highly caustic.

My greenhouse soils have a pH of around 6.0, rainwater runs 5.3 because of anerobic organics "fermenting".
I dilute the urine 10:1.The salts are not a problem ,most plants and the microorganisms from the pot actually need them and the excess salts disolve and leave the soil.
At 5-6 ph you have problems with the phosphorus because its inavailable for plants in acidic soil.
Wood ash has a ph @9 and its a good supplement especially for a pot because it disolves with water and spreads easily.In case you need higher ph its a good idea to use it.
From our discussion ,thinking to recomend you a good source of P i got an idea on how to get /make probably the best phosphorus fertiliser ever ,but i opened a new thread because it looks a bit like a crazy idea and probably a sensitive subject.Its called ,,best P fertiliser,, .

Mark in Texas

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Re: Greenhouse, RootMaker pots for tropicals and fruit "porn"
« Reply #230 on: June 09, 2019, 07:43:43 AM »
Mark, I snapped this pic of my young nabal tree for you.  The tree was planted about 1.5 years ago.  Its got a really nice christmas tree shape and strong (very thick) upright branches.  Nice looking tree.  I grafted another one onto an in ground seedling.  This will make a good one to hang other varieties onto if you wanted to do that.




Looks great.  Thanks for sharing. 

Mark in Texas

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Re: Greenhouse, RootMaker pots for tropicals and fruit "porn"
« Reply #231 on: June 15, 2019, 08:28:52 AM »
Cocktail mango grafted last year to shoots that came back from a Mallika stub that took a 18F freeze - Juicy Peach, Pineapple Pleasure, Orange Sherbet. Fruit is PP. Was loaded, dropped the rest. Other new/young mango trees/grafts in the greenhouse are Glenn, Pickering, Lemon Zest, Fruit Punch.



Mark in Texas

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Re: Greenhouse, RootMaker pots for tropicals and fruit "porn"
« Reply #232 on: June 15, 2019, 09:01:17 AM »
Reed got a major haircut yesterday.  Before:






After:



Sprawling tomato volunteer has been producing since last fall.

Greenhouse stuff - Ardith avocado center, Reed left, Frankencado on the right back.  Has Sharwil, Jan Boyce, Pinkerton and Lamb Hass.


« Last Edit: June 15, 2019, 09:04:00 AM by Mark in Texas »

Mark in Texas

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Re: Greenhouse, RootMaker pots for tropicals and fruit "porn"
« Reply #233 on: October 10, 2019, 09:55:43 AM »
Update....

Sharwil was grafted last year on Oro Negro that froze back.  Has one branch of Lamb Hass too. I expect a heavy bloom next year.



Ardith, grafted last Sept. to a frozen back Gwen.  Now about 8'.  Again, next season should be  a heavy bloom.  GEM on the left. 





Mark in Texas

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Re: Greenhouse, RootMaker pots for tropicals and fruit "porn"
« Reply #234 on: October 10, 2019, 10:00:08 AM »
Cocktail mango tipped, big time hardening off the new flush.  Was another total loss last year, scions grafted  onto the Mallika shoots that pushed March 2018.  Should harden off soon with some cold fronts coming, low 40's.  4 mango trees doing really well - Glenn, Lemon Zest, Orange Sherbet, Fruit Punch, Pickering, Pineapple Pleasure, Juicy Peach.
 


Reed pruned hard.  Bet I removed 40# of wood.


« Last Edit: October 10, 2019, 10:05:46 AM by Mark in Texas »

z_willus_d

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Re: Greenhouse, RootMaker pots for tropicals and fruit "porn"
« Reply #235 on: October 11, 2019, 07:40:33 AM »
Everything is looking great.  What was the reason for the heavy prune on Reed?  Just getting too tall for your space?

Mark in Texas

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Re: Greenhouse, RootMaker pots for tropicals and fruit "porn"
« Reply #236 on: October 11, 2019, 09:08:31 AM »
Everything is looking great.  What was the reason for the heavy prune on Reed?  Just getting too tall for your space?

Thanks.  Crazy comeback after the Jan. 2018 which turned everything dead or into stumps. 

Have pruned this Reed at least 3X since that freeze because of its vigor.

spaugh

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Re: Greenhouse, RootMaker pots for tropicals and fruit "porn"
« Reply #237 on: October 11, 2019, 10:54:06 AM »
Cant wait to see your blooms and fruit set in 6 months mark.  Keep it up, keep that heater working. 
Brad Spaugh

Mark in Texas

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Re: Greenhouse, RootMaker pots for tropicals and fruit "porn"
« Reply #238 on: October 11, 2019, 01:52:36 PM »
Cant wait to see your blooms and fruit set in 6 months mark.  Keep it up, keep that heater working.

Hell ya.  BTW, area went from another heat record of 99F in Austin yesterday to 42F now on our farm due west, 1:00 p.m., gusty winds.  That's Texas weather for you.   ::)

Austin had the hottest Sept. on record.  Thanks to our "cool" micro climate the farm never hit 100F.

spaugh

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Re: Greenhouse, RootMaker pots for tropicals and fruit "porn"
« Reply #239 on: October 11, 2019, 04:08:32 PM »
Beauty, we hardly broke 100 here this summer.  Last years crazy heat was a bust for my avocados.  Trees are loaded here this year though.  They are still self thinning.  Ive got piles of dropped avocados under the trees and trees are still full of hangers!  The next year or so is looking promising.  Hope 2021 brings you the same. 
Brad Spaugh

Mark in Texas

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Re: Greenhouse, RootMaker pots for tropicals and fruit "porn"
« Reply #240 on: October 12, 2019, 09:24:49 AM »
Beauty, we hardly broke 100 here this summer.  Last years crazy heat was a bust for my avocados.  Trees are loaded here this year though.  They are still self thinning.  Ive got piles of dropped avocados under the trees and trees are still full of hangers!  The next year or so is looking promising.  Hope 2021 brings you the same.

That success is just crazy, good.   Good luck with next year!

I had most of my Reed avocados blow off, only have 20 hanging now.

Greenhouse had a record of 112F and most days were over 100F in between my showers.   Surprisingly the stuff that really didn't like it was the citrus. Am loaded but the leaves showed moisture stress more often than not.   I've got lots of different varieties or oranges coming on - Marrs (some SoCal dudes call this Texas Sweet), Calamondin, Cara Cara, Hamlin, bloods, Valencia and a ton of limes and lemons.





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Re: Greenhouse, RootMaker pots for tropicals and fruit "porn"
« Reply #241 on: October 12, 2019, 03:07:01 PM »
20 reeds is a ton for a tree that size. 
Brad Spaugh

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Re: Greenhouse, RootMaker pots for tropicals and fruit "porn"
« Reply #242 on: October 12, 2019, 03:24:23 PM »
Mark from Texas,
your freeze in 2018 is a blessing in disguise.  Probably better for the trees that survived near death experience. Now, they are acclimated to it and can probably go thru many more cold freezes later on. 

Mark in Texas

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Re: Greenhouse, RootMaker pots for tropicals and fruit "porn"
« Reply #243 on: October 13, 2019, 09:08:41 AM »
20 reeds is a ton for a tree that size.

Really, that makes me feel better.  In the past its held at least double that.

Can't wait to see the Sharwil next year.  I topped it at 8' and it's holding a ton of foliage.  The old one was like 5' and bore heavy.  Love that tree - great taste,  small seed, easy to peel, hangs forever.



Mark in Texas

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Re: Greenhouse, RootMaker pots for tropicals and fruit "porn"
« Reply #244 on: October 13, 2019, 09:16:32 AM »
Mark from Texas,
your freeze in 2018 is a blessing in disguise.  Probably better for the trees that survived near death experience. Now, they are acclimated to it and can probably go thru many more cold freezes later on.

Well, the 18F must have been very short cause every one of the trees that made "is not cold hardy".  ;D 
Glad my trees can't read.

I need to emphasize again that what induces cold hardiness is:

1. Being well watered and acclimated to the extreme cold for a day or two before the big one hits,
2. Older, dark woody bark
3. Dormant - no plant food months prior.
4. "Warm" micro climate. What helped me was a micro climate induced by a thick low hanging canopy and a very thick mulch of pine needles and leaf litter.  I rake the leaves and top off my mango, avocado, citrus beds with them. This very important "natural" forest condition is too often ignored by gardeners.

I pity the avocado grower that has to have the "clean" look under and around their trees.

Mark in Texas

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Re: Greenhouse, RootMaker pots for tropicals and fruit "porn"
« Reply #245 on: November 02, 2019, 08:38:56 AM »
Well well, this is a first! 😋 Knowing I'd lose an outside mater I took about 5 cuttings of Big Beef, a wonderful AAS winner, stuck them in a RootTone rooting cup and it worked, ROOTS! 😱 One is keeping an Ardith avocado tree company and another is temporarily tented in a pot. I'll let them sprawl on the greenhouse floor.

I tried in vain to root cherimoya cuttings with these cups.
 







z_willus_d

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Re: Greenhouse, RootMaker pots for tropicals and fruit "porn"
« Reply #246 on: November 02, 2019, 12:15:51 PM »
Hi Mark, that's neat.  Though, from my experience with over-winter indoor grow labs of Dwarf Heirloom varieties (with ~$1000 in LED lighting, etc.), indoor tomatoes are hard to fruit, and what comes out is never as good as their sun-kissed peers.  But maybe you're just playing around.  If you really want to take it to the next level, look into grafting tomatoes.  That was a necessity for me with my Fusarium/Verticilium infested dirt.  If you're interested about any of that, you can reference my and others blogs on tomatoville.

Mark in Texas

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Re: Greenhouse, RootMaker pots for tropicals and fruit "porn"
« Reply #247 on: November 03, 2019, 06:53:29 AM »
Hi Mark, that's neat.  Though, from my experience with over-winter indoor grow labs of Dwarf Heirloom varieties (with ~$1000 in LED lighting, etc.), indoor tomatoes are hard to fruit, and what comes out is never as good as their sun-kissed peers.  But maybe you're just playing around.  If you really want to take it to the next level, look into grafting tomatoes.  That was a necessity for me with my Fusarium/Verticilium infested dirt.  If you're interested about any of that, you can reference my and others blogs on tomatoville.

Every year I get volunteer tomatoes from a BHN 589 I planted years ago.  Last year I had one that sprawled on the dirt, bore heavily. It literally took up 1/3 of the greenhouse floor.  Since they're vines this works out well for me. I do have problems with some disease but it's not much.

This was Feb. 14 of this year.  Had been fruiting for months. By the time I got sick of it and pulled it, about June, it had doubled in size.



Thanks for the invite, that's how you get good is networking.  One of my docs grafts tomatoes.  I don't have the patience considering they're an annual.

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Re: Greenhouse, RootMaker pots for tropicals and fruit "porn"
« Reply #248 on: November 03, 2019, 11:18:14 AM »
Yeah, I have volunteers like that popping up here and there on my 30% grade 1/3 acre north-facing hillside.  The chickens take care of the low hanging fruit, and if I'm ever working on the hill in summer, I might pop a few.  The smaller varieties always seems to out-compete the beefier.  The only issue I have with letting a tomato sprawl is that it takes up so much more space for growing other tomatoes, and its much harder to harvest.  If you have ground running rodents, they're more likely to snag the fruit as well.  It is fun, though, to let them alone and get fruit for what seems like "free."

I stopped grafting my tomatoes two years back because it was such a heavy time and effort investment.  I have 20% worse tasting tomatoes now, but there are still some decent hybrids with resistance to my soil fungi you can find coming out of Japan and a few good ones that have worked up through the states.  Have a good day sir!

spaugh

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Re: Greenhouse, RootMaker pots for tropicals and fruit "porn"
« Reply #249 on: November 03, 2019, 11:46:49 AM »
It seems like all my volunteers make medium sized red tomatos.  Its strange because I never grew any like that.  We only grow cherry tomato or big heirlooms. 
Brad Spaugh