Organic Gardening of Tropical Fruit

[MangoFang]

I don't remember seeing a lot written at the other forum about growing organically, these subtropical fruits we all talk about and grow (I puruesed the "Topic" section and couldn't seem to come up with anything directly related to actual methods, or I perhaps didn't search correctly).  Anyway, I've decided to try that route as of the beginning of this year.  I've purchased a tumbling composter, 1000 red wigglers and some kelp powder to get me started.

Is there anybody out there doing that now, or anyone who has done that in the past have some good tips, or an excellent book to get me going on the right track?  What I've read so far is that growing organically gives your plant the healthiest means to grow and fruit...and...the healthier and stronger the plant, the less that diseases and pests will bother it.  And of course the obvious benefits of no remnants of pesticides or chemicals that might be ingested.

Besides the fertilization process - although I'm thinking with compost being added at regular intervals and worms scattered everywhere that perhaps one does not NEED additional NPK (?) - there is the other art of organic insect protection/treatment for those trees that do become infected.

Any advice based on experience, especially if it's been done with our tropical fruits, would be muchly appreciated.  And this idea of providing "micro-nutrients" - would that need these plants have, approach any kind of satisfaction with this method of growing?

Thanks, gang....


FangoftheMango

[fruitlovers]

Hello Fang, been growing organically for 35+ years, even before i started growing tropical fruit trees i was an organic weekend truck farmer. There is very little information geared specifically towards growing tropical fruit trees organically. But you can apply many of the things geared to organic growing of temperate fruit trees and vegetables. Rodale's Organic Gardening Encyclopedia is a good place to begin and excellent reference book. If you or anyone else on the group has any specific questions organic gardening questions or questions about transitioning from chemicals to organic will be glad to discuss it with you.
I think main difference between organic vs. chemical methods of growing is that the chemical grower wants to feed the plants: NPK, whereas the organic grower wants to feed the soil: high organic content, micro-organisms, worms, etc. to get a healthy soil. The idea is that if the soil is healthy then the soil will feed the plant.
For this reason i think organic farming can be sustainable, that is, the land can continue being equally fertile, or even better yet, more fertile than when you started, whereas chemical farming ends up eroding the land, and often the environment, and the farmers as well.
Oscar

[MangoFang]

Thank Oscar - yeah I remember reading/hearing about Rodale's Organic Gardening books when I was growing up in the 70's - that dude's been around a long time...Didn't he used to have a monthly newsletter or something as well???  I'll check out what I assume will be a website they have....


M.F.

[RodneyS]

I started vermicomposting using a 18 quart Rubbermaid container.  One of my goals is to harvest rich worm castings for the garden.  Worm castings are highly nutritious, have beneficial bacteria and won't burn plants no matter how much you use.  Application can be via top mulching, soil amendment and tea.  The tea also acts as a natural pest-repellent.  I started with some red wigglers and then acquired some european nightcrawlers.  Euro's are bigger and can tolerate temps & salinity better, which makes them great for fishing.  A dual purpose worm. 

[fruitlovers]

Thank Oscar - yeah I remember reading/hearing about Rodale's Organic Gardening books when I was growing up in the 70's - that dude's been around a long time...Didn't he used to have a monthly newsletter or something as well???  I'll check out what I assume will be a website they have....


M.F.

Rodales are several generations, starting with J.I. Rodale way back when, then his son Robert Rodale took over and he is the one that started the famous homesteader magazine: Organic Gardening. Robert unfortunately died in a traffic accident during a trip to Soviet Union. Afterwards his children took over and turned the magazine, in my opinion, into a glossy flower magazine. However, the Rodale Institute in Pennsylvania still does good research on organic farming.
Oscar

[fruitlovers]

I started vermicomposting using a 18 quart Rubbermaid container.  One of my goals is to harvest rich worm castings for the garden.  Worm castings are highly nutritious, have beneficial bacteria and won't burn plants no matter how much you use.  Application can be via top mulching, soil amendment and tea.  The tea also acts as a natural pest-repellent.  I started with some red wigglers and then acquired some european nightcrawlers.  Euro's are bigger and can tolerate temps & salinity better, which makes them great for fishing.  A dual purpose worm.

I recommend earthworm castings potting soil to everyone, even ones that don't believe in anything organic! It's really great for potted plants, especially the slow and fussy ones like mangosteen. I never tried vermiculture, but one of these dayz!
Oscar

[Tropicdude]

Vermicompost is all i use, actually its really the only available organic fertilizer you can easily find here in the D.R. i have brewed up some compost tea with the bubbler technique, plants seem to love that sprayed on them.

the only "chemical" i use is copper for my mangoes,  we have had no "dry season" this year, its been raining almost every day at least a bit.

now that i have my first container mango flowering, i wonder about fertilizer requirements and if vermicompost will be enough,  any suggestion? 

[nullzero]

Good topic, I have been looking into switching up the fertilizer for the container plants. I have been focusing on increasing the beneficial microbe activity in the container mix.

Recently ordered some mycorrhizal fungi. Going to get some fish emulsion, bat guano, potash, and Kelp powder. Figured I can mix the fish, bat, potash in small amounts for a balanced fertilizer, adding compost tea and some worm castings to the mix. Wanted to use the Kelp as a foliar spray.

The costs can add up, so eventually going to rely on vermicomposting and green composting as the main nutrients in the vegetative growth. Switching to the Kelp, fish, and bat guano when flowering and fruiting starts.

Going to experiment with adding plant hormones such as; GA3, IAA, and BAP. Adding the hormones in small amounts with the watering.

[fruitlovers]

Vermicompost is all i use, actually its really the only available organic fertilizer you can easily find here in the D.R. i have brewed up some compost tea with the bubbler technique, plants seem to love that sprayed on them.

the only "chemical" i use is copper for my mangoes,  we have had no "dry season" this year, its been raining almost every day at least a bit.

now that i have my first container mango flowering, i wonder about fertilizer requirements and if vermicompost will be enough,  any suggestion?

Well composted chicken manure, or other animal manure should work great. I spread around base of trees and as it rains the nutrients trickle in. Apply small amount often, rather than large amount very rarely.
Oscar
Oscar

[Cookie Monster]

The lazy man's way to do it is:

• Get the tree trimmer to dump off a load of mulched trimmings in your driveway
• Pay someone to wheelbarrow it through the garden a few inches thick
• Let nature (millipedes) do the composting for you

For the garden scraps, just find a corner of the yard that's not too visible and chuck them there :-). The possums will eat some, but they will readily poop it back out for you in a more 'composted' state :-).

I used to have one of those giant compostumblers, but I sold it because I was too lazy to work it. It also generated about 1/100th of the compost I needed.

[MangoFang]

What is Vermicomposting?


MFang

[RodneyS]

Worm composting

[zands]

I used to think you should be 100% organic but not anymore
If you have  a lot of humus in your soil. If you make sure this is is the case and work towards this ......... Then my theory is the NPK fertilizers you used are chelated into the humus before they get taken up by the plant or fruit tree roots. Your fruit tree does not know the difference between NPK and horse manure. We often use chemical fertilizers that have minor elements along with the basic NPK. So even more useful elements are getting chelated into the humus before uptake. The humus acts as a buffer and chelating agent.

In Fl many people mulch heavily with wood chips from tree trimming crews. If NPK+minors fertilizer is applied on top of the wood chips it just has to be chelated into the humus by the time it reaches tree and plant roots. The examples I give are pretty organic in my book. But, if you are applying chemical fertilizers to fields that have been over cropped and abused, that have little humus....I would call this chemical farming. Not anything close to organic

[zands]

I don't remember seeing a lot written at the other forum about growing organically, these subtropical fruits we all talk about and grow (I puruesed the "Topic" section and couldn't seem to come up with anything directly related to actual methods, or I perhaps didn't search correctly).  Anyway, I've decided to try that route as of the beginning of this year.  I've purchased a tumbling composter, 1000 red wigglers and some kelp powder to get me started.

Besides the fertilization process - although I'm thinking with compost being added at regular intervals and worms scattered everywhere that perhaps one does not NEED additional NPK (?) - there is the other art of organic insect protection/treatment for those trees that do become infected.

Better bring in some outside horse or cow manure or you will be lacking in nitrogen. This is exactly why NPK is brought in. It an external input same as the animal manure. Organic schemes work a lot better when manure generating animals (could be chickens, goats, etc) are on your property. But then you would have to buy chickenfeed so this would be your external input. Even if you can manage without bring in NPK you still might need the minor elements that high grade NPK fertilizers incorporate today.

[Squam256]

The lazy man's way to do it is:

• Get the tree trimmer to dump off a load of mulched trimmings in your driveway
• Pay someone to wheelbarrow it through the garden a few inches thick
• Let nature (millipedes) do the composting for you

Ya, this is essentially what I did, only the mulch was spread with a bobcat.

I also have a mulch/compost pile area where all the unwanted fruit and vegetable scraps and manure goes.

[fruitlovers]

The lazy man's way to do it is:

• Get the tree trimmer to dump off a load of mulched trimmings in your driveway
• Pay someone to wheelbarrow it through the garden a few inches thick
• Let nature (millipedes) do the composting for you

For the garden scraps, just find a corner of the yard that's not too visible and chuck them there :-). The possums will eat some, but they will readily poop it back out for you in a more 'composted' state :-).

I used to have one of those giant compostumblers, but I sold it because I was too lazy to work it. It also generated about 1/100th of the compost I needed.

Wood chips work really great, and anytime i see a crew chipping trees i try to get them to dump in my orchard, then spread around base of trees. But you don't need to be an organic farmer to do this. For example, Bill Whitman did this and he was not at all organic.
Oscar

[fruitlovers]

Good topic, I have been looking into switching up the fertilizer for the container plants. I have been focusing on increasing the beneficial microbe activity in the container mix.

Recently ordered some mycorrhizal fungi. Going to get some fish emulsion, bat guano, potash, and Kelp powder. Figured I can mix the fish, bat, potash in small amounts for a balanced fertilizer, adding compost tea and some worm castings to the mix. Wanted to use the Kelp as a foliar spray.

The costs can add up, so eventually going to rely on vermicomposting and green composting as the main nutrients in the vegetative growth. Switching to the Kelp, fish, and bat guano when flowering and fruiting starts.

Going to experiment with adding plant hormones such as; GA3, IAA, and BAP. Adding the hormones in small amounts with the watering.

If you apply most of your nutrients in a foliar spray you don't need to spend very much money. Plants are very efficient at absorbing nutrients through the leaves, and very inefficient at absorbing them through the roots. Most of what you put around the base of the tree will NOT be absorbed, and so most of that money is wasted.
Oscar

[fruitlovers]

Better bring in some outside horse or cow manure or you will be lacking in nitrogen. This is exactly why NPK is brought in. It an external input same as the animal manure. Organic schemes work a lot better when manure generating animals (could be chickens, goats, etc) are on your property. But then you would have to buy chickenfeed so this would be your external input. Even if you can manage without bring in NPK you still might need the minor elements that high grade NPK fertilizers incorporate today.

If your animals are loose then no need to buy feed for them. We have free range chickens and they scrounge for all the food they need. But if you have a lot of trees, like i do, having a few animals is not going to produce enough manure. What i do in addition is to catch all the grass when mowing and apply that around trees. Also buy additional chicken manure, as well as the wood chips already mentioned, and kitchen compost, and garden compost. Fertilizers here in Hawaii whether organic or not are prohibitively expensive, so by force i've had to come with other ways of feeding my plants. I only use purchased expensive slow release ferts on potted plants. That is the only non organic stuff i use. Used to use chicken manure even in pots, but that got old because in our very rainy climate have to reapply that very often. I've heard now there are pelleted slow release organic ferts, but haven't tried them yet.
Oscar

[nullzero]

Good topic, I have been looking into switching up the fertilizer for the container plants. I have been focusing on increasing the beneficial microbe activity in the container mix.

Recently ordered some mycorrhizal fungi. Going to get some fish emulsion, bat guano, potash, and Kelp powder. Figured I can mix the fish, bat, potash in small amounts for a balanced fertilizer, adding compost tea and some worm castings to the mix. Wanted to use the Kelp as a foliar spray.

The costs can add up, so eventually going to rely on vermicomposting and green composting as the main nutrients in the vegetative growth. Switching to the Kelp, fish, and bat guano when flowering and fruiting starts.

Going to experiment with adding plant hormones such as; GA3, IAA, and BAP. Adding the hormones in small amounts with the watering.

If you apply most of your nutrients in a foliar spray you don't need to spend very much money. Plants are very efficient at absorbing nutrients through the leaves, and very inefficient at absorbing them through the roots. Most of what you put around the base of the tree will NOT be absorbed, and so most of that money is wasted.
Oscar

Thanks for the advice, maybe I will focus more on a kelp/fish emulsion foliar spray. Was originally going to focus mostly on root fertilizer with some focus on foliar spray. Might rethink that and focus primarily on foliar spray. With just a compost tea mix for the root zone.

[zands]

If you apply most of your nutrients in a foliar spray you don't need to spend very much money. Plants are very efficient at absorbing nutrients through the leaves, and very inefficient at absorbing them through the roots. Most of what you put around the base of the tree will NOT be absorbed, and so most of that money is wasted.
Oscar

Good on the foliar basics--->>> http://www.florahydroponics.com/foliarnutrition.aspx

You really got me thinking on that one. This is a radical statement. Where I am we have iron uptake problems due to alkaline soils which are due to coral/limestone layers. I do  have some ferriplus which is chelated iron that can be used as a foliar or as at the roots as a "drench". I have Southern Ag foliar which has more chelated minor elements. http://www.southernag.com/docs/labels_msds/ms0190.pdf
Chelated sprays are expensive and I don't like the idea of being dependent on such fancy stuff. While various sulfates, iron, magnesium etc are cheap. Iron sulfate will not work at the roots here. The soil alkalinity blocks its absorption. I think magnesium is the same

• do you add a little dishwashing soap to your sprays?
• do you ever make your own non-chleated sprays? I'm thinking of making up foliar spray iron sulfate and magnesium sulfate (Epsom salts) with soap wetting agent
• do you have any opinion on non-chelated foliar sprays?

Ebay seller of agricultural sulfates. The iron sulfate at least is water soluble and OK for foliar sprays
http://stores.ebay.com/The-Organic-Store/_i.html?rt=nc&_nkw=SULFATE&_dmd=1&_sid=23660683&_trksid=p4634.c0.m14&_vc=1

[adiel]

For fruit trees, it depends on the soil type.  For example some places have very rich soil.  These places it will be easier to do organic "fruiting".  Other places have high alkalinity soil, on those places iron is needed as an additive.  Until they don't come out with a reliable source for "organic iron", you really cant say you are growing tropical fruit trees organically in such places that have an iron deficiency. 

For vegetables, its a different matter, you can be organic pretty much anywhere.  This is why you hear the term "Organic Gardening" referring to vegetables.

Adiel

[natsgarden123]

One quick thing to add:
You can save up a bunch of kitchen compost items. (Peels, egg shells, coffee ground....etc) and place it directly, into a hole which is then covered back up) into the soil.  It will compoat naturally.  Just a  lazy way of doing it and ite effective

[Tropicalgrower89]

All you need to do is take some laxative and use your yard as a toilet.. 










 

[fruitlovers]

If you apply most of your nutrients in a foliar spray you don't need to spend very much money. Plants are very efficient at absorbing nutrients through the leaves, and very inefficient at absorbing them through the roots. Most of what you put around the base of the tree will NOT be absorbed, and so most of that money is wasted.
Oscar

Good on the foliar basics--->>> http://www.florahydroponics.com/foliarnutrition.aspx

You really got me thinking on that one. This is a radical statement. Where I am we have iron uptake problems due to alkaline soils which are due to coral/limestone layers. I do  have some ferriplus which is chelated iron that can be used as a foliar or as at the roots as a "drench". I have Southern Ag foliar which has more chelated minor elements. http://www.southernag.com/docs/labels_msds/ms0190.pdf
Chelated sprays are expensive and I don't like the idea of being dependent on such fancy stuff. While various sulfates, iron, magnesium etc are cheap. Iron sulfate will not work at the roots here. The soil alkalinity blocks its absorption. I think magnesium is the same

• do you add a little dishwashing soap to your sprays?
• do you ever make your own non-chleated sprays? I'm thinking of making up foliar spray iron sulfate and magnesium sulfate (Epsom salts) with soap wetting agent
• do you have any opinion on non-chelated foliar sprays?

Ebay seller of agricultural sulfates. The iron sulfate at least is water soluble and OK for foliar sprays
http://stores.ebay.com/The-Organic-Store/_i.html?rt=nc&_nkw=SULFATE&_dmd=1&_sid=23660683&_trksid=p4634.c0.m14&_vc=1

I do add a very small amount of liquid soap to my sprays to act as a sticker. We don't have the same kind of alkaline soils here as in Florida, so don't have the iron problems here.
Oscar

[fruitlovers]

For fruit trees, it depends on the soil type.  For example some places have very rich soil.  These places it will be easier to do organic "fruiting".  Other places have high alkalinity soil, on those places iron is needed as an additive.  Until they don't come out with a reliable source for "organic iron", you really cant say you are growing tropical fruit trees organically in such places that have an iron deficiency. 

For vegetables, its a different matter, you can be organic pretty much anywhere.  This is why you hear the term "Organic Gardening" referring to vegetables.

Adiel

Come on, organic gardening only refers to vegetables? Why is it then there are all kinds of fruits grown and certified organically grown. While it's certainly true that some soils tend themselves more to growing fruits than others it's also true that any place can produce organic fruits. Some fruits will be a lot easier to grow than others in difficult soils.
Oscar