Author Topic: Avocado 24/7 Thread  (Read 211532 times)

Luisport

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3210
  • New in tropical fruit growing!
    • Fatima, Portugal
    • View Profile
Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #325 on: August 10, 2013, 08:59:51 AM »
I try a Haden mango for first time some days ago, and like it a lot. It's very sweet and some fiber. So i think to germinate this mango to have it. I remove the hard exterior seed and involve the almond in wet paper, and put it in a seeled plastic bag in dark. In two days it's sprouting! The pic is here:

 


Benri

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 4
    • USA, Kissimmee, FL Zone 09
    • View Profile
Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #326 on: August 12, 2013, 12:34:26 PM »
http://www.thegrower.com/issues/citrus-vegetable/New-varieties-could-extend-Floridas-avocado-season-218521951.html

Interesting article on extending the avocado season

Carlos, where could I find the avocado varieties?

DAY is an excellent Avocado tree that is cold hardy to 23 degrees. A heavy producer of  16  ounce fruit. This green skinned beauty is delicious and creamy.
Season: July - September Flower Type: A

Fantastic. Very cold hardy variety, supposedly the most most cold hardy of all avocados. Produces green, paper thin skin. The fruit has a creamy texture.
It survived temperatures around 10F near San Antonio, Texas (Zone 8b). Can take temperatures down to 15F for short period of time without significant damage.

Avocado Golden
Local Florida variety originated in Wauchula, which is very cold place, comparing to South Florida. This variety survived winters of 2009 and 2010 in Wauchula, when temperature dropped to low 20sF, without any significant damages. Very unusual medium size fruit - round yellow and smooth skin; creamy-yellow flesh. .  Flower Type: ?




CTMIAMI

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1972
    • View Profile
Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #327 on: August 12, 2013, 10:42:27 PM »
Golden I have no idea. But Day you can find in Florida. You may have to drive to pick up. Google it. Fantastic I think is a Texan variety.
Carlos
 Tweeter: @carlosdlt280
www.myavocadotrees.com
zone 10a Miami-Dade County

LEOOEL

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1775
    • USA, South Florida, Miami, Temperature Zone 10b
    • View Profile
Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #328 on: August 13, 2013, 12:49:15 AM »
Luisport, a lot of great mangos have come from seedlings just like that. I once planted a seedling mango and after a few short years, it produced fruit. But, because the quality of the fruit and the fruit production wasn't good, I ended up destroying it. I've come to the conclusion that when it comes to seedlings, the chances of getting a quality fruit and tree, increase when more than one seedling is planted. By the way, it seems you've perfected the technique of removing the hard exterior seed and sprouting the almond, nice.

Wauchula is on the avocado map! I'm glad to hear that the 'Golden' avocado was developed there. I lived in Wauchula, FL, USA, when I was a young boy.
I'm very tempted to say that I threw a lot of avocado seeds in the ground, so the Golden avocado variety is probably mine.  ;D
« Last Edit: August 13, 2013, 10:50:56 PM by LEOOEL »
'Virtue' should be taught, learned and propagated, in order to save others and oneself.

Luisport

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3210
  • New in tropical fruit growing!
    • Fatima, Portugal
    • View Profile
Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #329 on: August 13, 2013, 10:10:56 AM »
Luisport, a lot of great mangos have come from seedlings just like that. I once planted a seedling mango and after a few short years, it produced fruit. But, because the quality of the fruit and the fruit production wasn't good, I ended up destroying it. I've come to the conclusion that when it comes to seedlings, the chances of getting a quality fruit and tree, increase when more than one seedling is planted. By the way, it seems you've perfected the technique of removing the hard exterior seed and sprouting the almond, nice.

Hey i lived in Wauchula, FL, USA, when I was a young boy. I'm very tempted to say that I threw a lot of avocado seeds in the ground, so the Golden avocado variety probably is mine.  ;D
Thank's Leo this one is growing very nice... we have very little varieties available, so this diferente one are allways a good try!  ;D

LEOOEL

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1775
    • USA, South Florida, Miami, Temperature Zone 10b
    • View Profile
Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #330 on: August 13, 2013, 11:09:16 PM »
We're approximately six months away from the 'S. Florida - Winter Avocado Void' ('SFL-WAV'). So, I'm making preparations to upload photos on the Forum of important avocado tree cultivars, like 'Lula,' that are relevant to the 'SFL-WAV.'
'Virtue' should be taught, learned and propagated, in order to save others and oneself.

JF

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6652
  • North OC California Zone 10B/America Tropical 13A
    • 90631/97000
    • View Profile
Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #331 on: August 14, 2013, 12:05:50 AM »
We're approximately six months away from the 'S. Florida - Winter Avocado Void' ('SFL-WAV'). So, I'm making preparations to upload photos on the Forum of important avocado tree cultivars, like 'Lula,' that are relevant to the 'SFL-WAV.'

Leo, you are about a year and half away from the results of Carlo's California avocado experiments. I hope to feed him more California avocado scions that are promising for South  Florida....

shaneatwell

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1324
    • California, San Diego, sunset 23 and 18
    • View Profile
Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #332 on: August 14, 2013, 12:49:05 AM »
Luisport, a lot of great mangos have come from seedlings just like that. I once planted a seedling mango and after a few short years, it produced fruit. But, because the quality of the fruit and the fruit production wasn't good, I ended up destroying it. I've come to the conclusion that when it comes to seedlings, the chances of getting a quality fruit and tree, increase when more than one seedling is planted. By the way, it seems you've perfected the technique of removing the hard exterior seed and sprouting the almond, nice.

Wauchula is on the avocado map! I'm glad to hear that the 'Golden' avocado was developed there. I lived in Wauchula, FL, USA, when I was a young boy.
I'm very tempted to say that I threw a lot of avocado seeds in the ground, so the Golden avocado variety is probably mine.  ;D

Wouldnt a variety that fruits so quickly make a great rootstock?
Shane

LEOOEL

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1775
    • USA, South Florida, Miami, Temperature Zone 10b
    • View Profile
Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #333 on: August 15, 2013, 11:09:08 PM »
shaneatwell, I believe the quality of rootstock is judged on the ability to transmit food/juice to the budwood, and the ability to fend-off/keep-at-bay nematodes (root eating worms).

'South Florida - Winter Avocado Void' (S.FL-WAV') Update:

Today I spoke with the person who Dr. Balerdi said was able to come up with a new avocado cultivar that produces mature/ripe fruit in the 'South Florida - Winter Avocado Void' ('S.FL-WAV') months in South Florida (February, March, April, May).

This person (whom I'll call T.P. to respect his privacy) said to have sold the patent to another individual, and because it was a legal matter, couldn't go into details.

When I told T.P. that he probably planted hundred(s) or thousand(s) of seedlings, to accomplish this feat of filling the 'S.FL-WAV' with a cultivar that produced ripe/mature avocados during this time, surprisingly, T.P. replied "None of that," T.P. said that it was "just a luck of the draw." T.P said that he just grew a seedling avocado that produced ripe/mature fruit during the 'S.FL-WAV.'

Planting a seedling(s) is a valid means to develop a new avocado cultivar that 'fills-in' the 'S.FL-WAV.'
The only problem is, that when an individual solves/fills-in the 'S.FL-WAV,' by the 'Seedling Method,' he/she immediatly realizes that a lot of money can be made and patents the cultivar, effectively removing it from the general population.

This leads me to conclude that the quickest way to solve/fill-in the 'S.FL-WAV,' and then have it become immediatly available to the general population, is by field trying all the avocado cultivars in the “Watch” List. Is it possible that one of these avocado cultivars will solve/fill-in the ‘S.FL-WAV?’ I for one am very inclined to believe so.
Most of these potential ‘S.FL-WAV’ candidates on the “Watch” List were expertly chosen by Carlos. He’s doing an excellent job field-testing many of them.
But, to make good progress in this quest, we really need ‘all of them’ to be presently being field tested.

"Watch" List
We're in the process of confirming that at least one (or more) of the following avocado cultivars, will fill in the 'SFL-WAV' months of March, April and May:
Group 1: 'Sharwil', 'Fujikawa', 'Utuado', 'Jan-Boyce,' ‘Reed,’ ‘Green-Gold,’ ‘Linda,’ 'Fuerte' and 'Wurtz.'
Group 2: ‘Winter-Mexican’ and ‘Winter-Mexican-Seedling’ (per CTMIAMI: that should be good for February and Early March). Also,
Group 3: ‘Don-Carlitos,’ ‘Vero-Beach’ Avocado and ‘Cellons’ Avocado.
Group 4: Hawaiians like, ‘San Miguel,’ ‘Kalahuu,’ ‘Malama,’ ‘Muragishe-Plus.’ And,
Group 5: Californians like, ‘Gwen,’ ‘Santa-Ana-Hass,’ ‘Lamb-Hass,’ ‘Sir-Prize,’ and ‘Holiday.'
« Last Edit: August 31, 2013, 09:34:15 PM by LEOOEL »
'Virtue' should be taught, learned and propagated, in order to save others and oneself.

Mark in Texas

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4220
    • Fredericksburg Texas, (central TX), zone 8a
    • View Profile
Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #334 on: August 17, 2013, 08:47:49 AM »
shaneatwell, I believe the quality of rootstock is judged on the ability to transmit food/juice to the budwood, and the ability to fend-off/keep-at-bay nematodes (root eating worms).

And the ability to pair well with your soil's pH, structure and composition regarding adaptability and nutrient uptake.  Also, as I posted a few months back, Guat., Mex., and W. Indies all have different nutrient uptake characteristics to the scion.  For example, W.I. nutrient uptake potential is low on N, high on P, medium on K, low on Ca, and high on Mg.

When choosing plant material, any kind of stock, I place almost as much importance on the choice of the rootstock as I do the budwood variety.  The key is to get a perfect match with your soil profile.  It's amazing how many shoppers will buy fruit stock from Walmart not knowing what the rootstock is or if indeed it will work under their local conditions. 

Mark

Luisport

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3210
  • New in tropical fruit growing!
    • Fatima, Portugal
    • View Profile
Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #335 on: August 17, 2013, 09:17:35 AM »
My little baby osteen mangoes are falling... this is normal? They look healthy. Well this tree is on grownd only sinse may...

LEOOEL

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1775
    • USA, South Florida, Miami, Temperature Zone 10b
    • View Profile
Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #336 on: August 17, 2013, 11:37:32 PM »
shaneatwell, I believe the quality of rootstock is judged on the ability to transmit food/juice to the budwood, and the ability to fend-off/keep-at-bay nematodes (root eating worms).

And the ability to pair well with your soil's pH, structure and composition regarding adaptability and nutrient uptake.  Also, as I posted a few months back, Guat., Mex., and W. Indies all have different nutrient uptake characteristics to the scion.  For example, W.I. nutrient uptake potential is low on N, high on P, medium on K, low on Ca, and high on Mg.

When choosing plant material, any kind of stock, I place almost as much importance on the choice of the rootstock as I do the budwood variety.  The key is to get a perfect match with your soil profile.  It's amazing how many shoppers will buy fruit stock from Walmart not knowing what the rootstock is or if indeed it will work under their local conditions. 

Mark

Mark in Texas, good point, I always try to purchase my grafted fruit trees from reputable dealers. I think it's very important to do so whenever possible. I've had very good results following this rule. Whenever I've strayed from it, I've payed the price (with diseased trees...).
'Virtue' should be taught, learned and propagated, in order to save others and oneself.

Mark in Texas

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4220
    • Fredericksburg Texas, (central TX), zone 8a
    • View Profile
Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #337 on: August 18, 2013, 09:09:14 AM »
Mark in Texas, good point, I always try to purchase my grafted fruit trees from reputable dealers. I think it's very important to do so whenever possible. I've had very good results following this rule. Whenever I've strayed from it, I've payed the price (with diseased trees...).

Good on ya!  The rootstock can make ya or break ya.

CTMIAMI

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1972
    • View Profile
Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #338 on: August 18, 2013, 03:04:43 PM »
Not only on tree health but in the ability to  bear more or less fruit.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2013, 06:18:46 PM by CTMIAMI »
Carlos
 Tweeter: @carlosdlt280
www.myavocadotrees.com
zone 10a Miami-Dade County

johnb51

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4782
    • USA Deerfield Beach, FL Zone 11a
    • View Profile
Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #339 on: August 18, 2013, 10:21:05 PM »
Not only on tree health but in the ability to  bear more or less fruit.

If the rootstock are all seedling trees, how can you tell which ones to use since they are all different genetically than the mother tree?  Are you just hoping that they resemble the mother tree?
John

Jack, Nipomo

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 567
  • San Luis Obispo County, CA zone 9b
    • View Profile
Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #340 on: August 18, 2013, 11:48:46 PM »
John, you have a valid point as that rootstock seedling's genetics are virtually unknown.  That is why seedlings rarely produce good fruit, even when they are the offspring of an excellent tree.  Brokaw Nursery in CA does produce clonal rootstock through a process called etiolation and therefore has consistent rootstock characteristics.  I use, what Julie Frink of the UC avocado collection calls, GOK.  That is "God only knows".  Selections for potential rootstock are usually Mexican, as that does best in our soil/climate.  However, many times the rootstock is not up to the job.  In that case I put another seedling next to the original rootstock and inarch it to the original, thereby having a grafted tree with two rootstocks.  That usually solves the problem. I believe Brokaw's website has an explanation of how they produce clonal rootstocks.  It is an intensive process, but leads to consistent and predictable producing trees, which is not necessarily true using seedling rootstocks.

Mark in Texas

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4220
    • Fredericksburg Texas, (central TX), zone 8a
    • View Profile
Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #341 on: August 19, 2013, 10:16:46 AM »
I guess I just got lucky.  I started Florida pits and grafted Reed, Sharwil, and Gwen budwood sourced from California and so far the results have been incredible.  If I had to guess the rootstock is Monroe as I bought them about late September.  Got to be Guat.X WI based on leaf flush color and other characteristics.

Having said that, I'm not impressed with the way Flying Dragon works with my citrus.  Growth is dwarfed all right such that leaf production is just not there.  Fruit production is, but without abundant leaves my fruit won't mature or have a decent taste.  Seems to stay dormant forever come winter too, some not growing until April.  Just no vigor.  If I had the room, I'd use Sour Orange as rootstock any day.

Mark
« Last Edit: August 19, 2013, 10:21:47 AM by Mark in Texas »

Jack, Nipomo

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 567
  • San Luis Obispo County, CA zone 9b
    • View Profile
Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #342 on: August 19, 2013, 11:00:50 AM »
Genetic testing of avocados shows that much of the identification as to Mexican, Guatemalan, and West Indian is difficult to ascertain due to the genetic diversity. For example, Hass, classified as Guatemalan, is determined to be 42% Mexican, actually a backcross. Puebla, considered a Mexican, is M X WI X G.  So choosing a seedling rootstock on specific characteristics is pretty much potluck.  Generalized selection due to observable characteristics helps, but is inexact.  I guess that is why Brokaw is using clonal rootstocks.

Good info: http://jhered.oxfordjournals.org/content/100/1/56.full.pdf

http://brokawnursery.com/rootstock.html

shaneatwell

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1324
    • California, San Diego, sunset 23 and 18
    • View Profile
Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #343 on: August 19, 2013, 01:16:32 PM »
Genetic testing of avocados shows that much of the identification as to Mexican, Guatemalan, and West Indian is difficult to ascertain due to the genetic diversity. For example, Hass, classified as Guatemalan, is determined to be 42% Mexican, actually a backcross. Puebla, considered a Mexican, is M X WI X G.  So choosing a seedling rootstock on specific characteristics is pretty much potluck.  Generalized selection due to observable characteristics helps, but is inexact.  I guess that is why Brokaw is using clonal rootstocks.

Good info: http://jhered.oxfordjournals.org/content/100/1/56.full.pdf

http://brokawnursery.com/rootstock.html

Funny. I've always thought hass was a hybrid. When I double checked the CRFG fruit facts it is, contra my memory, listed as Guatemalan. Julia Morton has Hass as hybrid, so I probably remember that from her. She also indicates that Puebla is thought by some to be a hybrid.
Shane

LEOOEL

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1775
    • USA, South Florida, Miami, Temperature Zone 10b
    • View Profile
Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #344 on: August 19, 2013, 10:49:21 PM »
The potted 'Jan-Boisey' avocado tree that Carlos gave me has grown really fast. When I first got it (about 2 months ago), the bamboo stake that came with it was three times as tall. Now, the tree is taller than the stake!

Since it's been doing so well, I'm very tempted to plant it in the designated spot this year, instead of waiting for the coming winter to pass.

I hope to get lucky and discover that this variety is the one that fills in the 'S.FL-WAV.' If it doesn't, I'll still (hopefully) have a productive, quality avocado with a very small seed (Thank you Carlos).  :)
« Last Edit: August 20, 2013, 11:26:47 PM by LEOOEL »
'Virtue' should be taught, learned and propagated, in order to save others and oneself.

LEOOEL

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1775
    • USA, South Florida, Miami, Temperature Zone 10b
    • View Profile
Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #345 on: August 20, 2013, 11:47:27 PM »
Today I spoke with Dr. Carlos Balerdi. I told him about the conversation I had with 'TP," the person that grew a producing avocado tree from seed, that fills the 'S.FL-WAV.'

Dr. Balerdi told me that the method that we're using, that of growing different cultivars in S. Florida, USA, was a valid way to find an avocado variety that could fill the 'S.FL-WAV.'
But, he recommended a more refined strategy, while still using the same method.

Recommendaton Number One
He said to choose avocado cultivar candidates that are know to mature late in other locations, and preferably close to, or in the middle of winter.

Recommendation Number Two
He said that since S. Florida is just a few feet above sea level, that the avocado tree varieties chosen as potential candidates to fill the 'S.FL-WAV,' should also be from areas that are in valleys or locations that are also just a few feet above sea level. And, that we should refrain from choosing avocado cultivar candidates that are known to prosper in hgih hills or mountains, since that high dry air difference will affect the maturity season.
'Virtue' should be taught, learned and propagated, in order to save others and oneself.

plantlover13

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 895
    • View Profile
Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #346 on: August 21, 2013, 10:17:15 AM »
Today I spoke with Dr. Carlos Balerdi. I told him about the conversation I had with 'TP," the person that grew a producing avocado tree from seed, that fills the 'S.FL-WAV.'

Dr. Balerdi told me that the method that we're using, that of growing different cultivars in S. Florida, USA, was a valid way to find an avocado variety that could fill the 'S.FL-WAV.'
But, he recommended a more refined strategy, while still using the same method.

Recommendaton Number One
He said to choose avocado cultivar candidates that are know to mature late in other locations, and preferably close to, or in the middle of winter.

Recommendation Number Two
He said that since S. Florida is just a few feet above sea level, that the avocado tree varieties chosen as potential candidates to fill the 'S.FL-WAV,' should also be from areas that are in valleys or locations that are also just a few feet above sea level. And, that we should refrain from choosing avocado cultivar candidates that are known to prosper in hgih hills or mountains, since that high dry air difference will affect the maturity season.

So does that mean that a cultivar that matures in summer in one place matures in winter in florida?  ;D ;D

CTMIAMI

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1972
    • View Profile
Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #347 on: August 21, 2013, 03:22:22 PM »
All recommendations, observations are useful. In the end we resemble more to San Diego and to some extend Hawaii in the lower elevations area than any other location. In the final analysis trees will behave as they like, I tend not to follow others observations because once I experiment I may find that others observations are far off to my location.  Balerdi's observations are well taken and accurate and I try to follow them as much as possible in making selections but if something is out of the ordinary I'll try it even if it comes from 5000 ft elevation. May be is doing well there but its optimal location may be here. If we don't try we wont know.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2013, 08:44:31 AM by CTMIAMI »
Carlos
 Tweeter: @carlosdlt280
www.myavocadotrees.com
zone 10a Miami-Dade County

LEOOEL

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1775
    • USA, South Florida, Miami, Temperature Zone 10b
    • View Profile
Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #348 on: August 22, 2013, 12:29:57 AM »
I couldn't agree more Carlos. There are a good, many, number of cultivars that you have introduced into the 'Watch List.' I hope that you'll let us know which ones produce fruit that 'do not' mature in the 'South Florida-Winter Avocado Void' ('S.FL-WAV') months, so that we can remove them from the 'List.' In that way, we/you can then concentrate on other 'cultivars' that merit our attention.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2013, 12:04:47 AM by LEOOEL »
'Virtue' should be taught, learned and propagated, in order to save others and oneself.

johnb51

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4782
    • USA Deerfield Beach, FL Zone 11a
    • View Profile
Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #349 on: August 22, 2013, 07:47:17 AM »
That's right.  Testing as many as possible is the best way to go.
John