Organic Gardening Question - Markers and Pencils

[Tropicaliste]

Okay, so just a question that is a bit hard to find an answer to. In fact, I haven't found a definitive one. So, you go to all the trouble of keeping certain substances out of your garden soil ... but have you ever wondered if the plastic pots you use, or the ink in the permanent marker or the graphite in your pencil may leach into your soil? I honestly can't find a good answer ... just because it's "non-toxic" is it okay to use in your organic garden? If "non-toxic" is the only criteria, well then wouldn't certain "non-organic" fertilizers also qualify? It's more than a bit confusing to me.

[Cookie Monster]

I don't think the National Organic Program regulates what type of writing instrument one uses in their ag program.

Okay, so just a question that is a bit hard to find an answer to. In fact, I haven't found a definitive one. So, you go to all the trouble of keeping certain substances out of your garden soil ... but have you ever wondered if the plastic pots you use, or the ink in the permanent marker or the graphite in your pencil may leach into your soil? I honestly can't find a good answer ... just because it's "non-toxic" is it okay to use in your organic garden? If "non-toxic" is the only criteria, well then wouldn't certain "non-organic" fertilizers also qualify? It's more than a bit confusing to me.

[tallman]

You might be over thinking it a bit.

[Tropicaliste]

Yeah, I realize it's overkill, but at the same time, when you go to such effort to make sure your soil has no synthetic fertilizers or harmful chemical, (which usually means buying expensive premade mixes or making it yourself), you might want to ask yourself if you're introducing them anyway via other means. In this case, the way you dress up your plants. Labels, pots, and the like. For example, I don't use any plastic pot without a number 2 or 5 on the bottom. They sell pots with no numbers and with numbers 1 on the bottom, which may be compromised of their food safety when exposed to prolonged heat(if I understand the breakdown correctly), so why would they be safe for roots? Do roots even absorb chemicals in that way? I wish I could understand the science of it more thoroughly.

I couldn't find anything on it either from the Organic program. Not sure that means carte blanche though.

[DimplesLee]

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/03/110329134129.htm

[Cookie Monster]

This warrants a more thorough treatment of the topic of "organic" horticulture :-).

The purpose of organic horticulture isn't to limit one's exposure to chemicals. In fact, "chemicals" (sometimes harmful ones) are permitted in organic agriculture, as long as they are obtained from natural sources. I have an array of ORMI listed products which have CAUTION labels on them and require me to wear protective gear to limit my exposure. Moreover, I've seen OMRI listed products bearing the signal word "DANGER" (the highest of the caution / warning / danger sequence). I personally don't use them, but they are out there.

Further, it's an accepted fact within the scientific community that organic foods actually possess more carcinogens than conventionally grown foods. Bruce Ames (the guy who invented the popular test for carcinogens) first published this finding in the late 80's. The reason for this fact is intuitive: organic produce is selected for its natural ability to withstand predators (natural pesticides). This is great until you realize that these natural pesticides cannot be washed off (they are systemic to the plant), where with conventionally grown produce, pesticides are surface applied and can be washed off.

So the goal of organic horticulture is not to limit one's exposure to carcinogens. It's sustainability and preservation of the global environment.

I personally prefer organically produced products, since they tend to be produced with more care. However, in today's industry, where one can find USDA Organic foods at WalMart -- which are produced under the same goals as conventionally produced food stuffs (to line the pockets of shareholders) -- buying organic doesn't always mean better quality. So, I tend to buy "artisan" type products, where attention to detail can still be found.

And, in my garden, I use organic farming practices -- because I believe it's the right thing to do. For example, I use tree trimmer mulch (over 1,000 cubic yards at this point) to provide nutrients to my plants over bagged fertilizer. If I need to utilize a pesticide, I look for the most bio-friendly product available.

[SocalKoop]

We live I a world of really interesting man made materials, unless you grow in a hermetically sealed room, you will always have wind borne particles adding trace contaminants.  That given, no point worrying about the small stuff.

[Tropicaliste]

Yeah, from reading many threads about this subject on this forum over the past couple of years, I get the whole "not all organic things are safe and not all man made things are bad" argument. I agree with that. I just try to do the best I can, and so I was trying to figure out if anyone knew more about the pots and labeling markers/pencils and how they square with organic gardening.

Just seems kind of stupid for someone to spend all the money and time to "go organic" then take some random marker and write a label then plop it into their soil.

[DimplesLee]

Phil just stick some duct tape outside around the lip of the pot then buy some markers made for duct tape. I find it easier to label things this way - saves me losing labels when I go klutz and accidentally knock over things. Shrubs and trees- cover an old CD with duct tape then write on it.    the oversized round label tends to look annoying but I get more space to write info - like care instructions - watering preferences, preferred fert mix etc

[Aaron]

Phil just stick some duct tape outside around the lip of the pot then buy some markers made for duct tape. I find it easier to label things this way - saves me losing labels when I go klutz and accidentally knock over things. Shrubs and trees- cover an old CD with duct tape then write on it.    the oversized round label tends to look annoying but I get more space to write info - like care instructions - watering preferences, preferred fert mix etc

Ive tried this and the duct tape always gets wet and comes off, this is why I have so many mystery mango seedlings.

[FrankDrebinOfFruits]

Sharpie oil based white marker. Lasts about 2 years.
https://www.amazon.com/Sanford-Sharpie-Paint-Marker-35568/dp/B0026HC9F4

Make sure you date everything! This stuff lasts so long the pot can be reused many times and the original paint is still on there.

[Cookie Monster]

Use plastic pot stickers and write on them with a pencil. Will last many years.

[Tropicaliste]

Oddly enough, I got labels to put on the outside of pots a couple months ago, wrote the names with a sharpie, and next thing I knew, the labels had all got wet and the names basically bled into nothing ...

Maybe just a little graphite from a pencil on a plastic stake in the soil will be fine. I mean, how bad could some graphite be?

[strkpr00]

I have orchid tags over 10 years old with pencil, in my fruit trees I use cut soda cans and press hard when I write over a mouse pad leaving a trail of indentations, and loosely zip tied to a tree branch. Most of the plastic type tags in the trees were removed by wildlife.

[Cookie Monster]

True. The one drawback of plastic pot labels is that birds (esp. brown thrashers) are fond of them as nest material. Usually just pushing the label into the soil far enough is sufficient to prevent theft from avian kleptos.