So here's a hypothetical (and likely) situation:

[plantlover13]

So you're on vacation in some fruit paradise. There, you find a variety of some fruit or something that you really love and want to bring back germplasm. However, you have no clue how to / lack the ability to get a phytosanitary certificate for the plant matter. What do you do?

essentially, if you don't know how to get a phyto for something in a foreign country, how do you do that, and if you can't what can you do to bring back the germplasm (legal options preferred  ). Is there a way or are you just screwed?

[luc]

Plan B , scratch the ' legal ' , live dangerously ....

[jcaldeira]

So you're on vacation in some fruit paradise. There, you find a variety of some fruit or something that you really love and want to bring back germplasm. However, you have no clue how to / lack the ability to get a phytosanitary certificate for the plant matter. What do you do?

essentially, if you don't know how to get a phyto for something in a foreign country, how do you do that, and if you can't what can you do to bring back the germplasm (legal options preferred  ). Is there a way or are you just screwed?

Easy.  Eat the fruit shortly before you leave.  Be sure not to chew the seeds, but instead swallow them whole.  When you get home, poop in your garden and cover with a thin layer of soil.  Perfectly legal, as far as I know.

The above is not recommended for mamey sapote.

You'll get other ideas on the prisoner websites and forums (search for 'smuggling into prison') but I don't advise most of those methods. 

[fruitlovers]

So you're on vacation in some fruit paradise. There, you find a variety of some fruit or something that you really love and want to bring back germplasm. However, you have no clue how to / lack the ability to get a phytosanitary certificate for the plant matter. What do you do?

essentially, if you don't know how to get a phyto for something in a foreign country, how do you do that, and if you can't what can you do to bring back the germplasm (legal options preferred  ). Is there a way or are you just screwed?

I think we went through all this before? You don't need a phytosanitary certificate to bring in seeds. Your small seed lot permit is sufficient. You apply for that before you go to another country and carry the permit with you. You need a phyto only for plants and plant parts (cuttings, airlayers). Difficulty of getting phyto depends on country you are going to visit, but for most short trips it's pretty much impossible, unless you have a local there do it for you.

[fruitlovers]

So you're on vacation in some fruit paradise. There, you find a variety of some fruit or something that you really love and want to bring back germplasm. However, you have no clue how to / lack the ability to get a phytosanitary certificate for the plant matter. What do you do?

essentially, if you don't know how to get a phyto for something in a foreign country, how do you do that, and if you can't what can you do to bring back the germplasm (legal options preferred  ). Is there a way or are you just screwed?

Easy.  Eat the fruit shortly before you leave.  Be sure not to chew the seeds, but instead swallow them whole.  When you get home, poop in your garden and cover with a thin layer of soil.  Perfectly legal, as far as I know.

The above is not recommended for mamey sapote.

You'll get other ideas on the prisoner websites and forums (search for 'smuggling into prison') but I don't advise most of those methods.

Better look that up in snopes.com    I dont know one person that's been succesful with this in introducing even one single species. First it only is possible for seeds that aren't broken down by acids in the digestive system. Seeds also would have to be small enough to be eaten. But the biggest IF is that you don't have to go to the toilet before you make it home. That's a very big IF when travelling to Asia, Australia, South America, where the flight and transfer can take a whole day. I hate to be a party pooper. HAHAHAHAHA

[marklee]

So you're on vacation in some fruit paradise. There, you find a variety of some fruit or something that you really love and want to bring back germplasm. However, you have no clue how to / lack the ability to get a phytosanitary certificate for the plant matter. What do you do?

essentially, if you don't know how to get a phyto for something in a foreign country, how do you do that, and if you can't what can you do to bring back the germplasm (legal options preferred  ). Is there a way or are you just screwed?

I think we went through all this before? You don't need a phytosanitary certificate to bring in seeds. Your small seed lot permit is sufficient. You apply for that before you go to another country and carry the permit with you. You need a phyto only for plants and plant parts (cuttings, airlayers). Difficulty of getting phyto depends on country you are going to visit, but for most short trips it's pretty much impossible, unless you have a local there do it for you.

Oscar,
I believe you now need a phyto for all propagation material. I had all of my seeds confiscated at LAX just a few months ago. I had all the bags labeled properly with the correct number of seeds in each bag, {cherimoya and lucuma) and on my small seed permit it said a phytosanitary certificate is required, I tried to explain to the inspector that it was only for cutting, plants etc. but he went by the "letter of the law" and interpreted what he thought was written on my permit. I was out of luck, so people need to check exactly what their current permit requires before they attempt to import plant material.

[fruitlovers]

So you're on vacation in some fruit paradise. There, you find a variety of some fruit or something that you really love and want to bring back germplasm. However, you have no clue how to / lack the ability to get a phytosanitary certificate for the plant matter. What do you do?

essentially, if you don't know how to get a phyto for something in a foreign country, how do you do that, and if you can't what can you do to bring back the germplasm (legal options preferred  ). Is there a way or are you just screwed?

I think we went through all this before? You don't need a phytosanitary certificate to bring in seeds. Your small seed lot permit is sufficient. You apply for that before you go to another country and carry the permit with you. You need a phyto only for plants and plant parts (cuttings, airlayers). Difficulty of getting phyto depends on country you are going to visit, but for most short trips it's pretty much impossible, unless you have a local there do it for you.

Oscar,
I believe you now need a phyto for all propagation material. I had all of my seeds confiscated at LAX just a few months ago. I had all the bags labeled properly with the correct number of seeds in each bag, {cherimoya and lucuma) and on my small seed permit it said a phytosanitary certificate is required, I tried to explain to the inspector that it was only for cutting, plants etc. but he went by the "letter of the law" and interpreted what he thought was written on my permit. I was out of luck, so people need to check exactly what their current permit requires before they attempt to import plant material.

No Mark, that is not correct. That is the original intended purpose of the small seed lot permit: no phyto required. I've used small seed lot permit dozens of times, both travelling and also i get packages all the time through the mail opened by USDA with no phyto and they are cleared. If your permit really said you need a phyto for seeds then it is not a small seed lot permit. Only time you need a phyto for seeds is when the seeds are already starting to germinate.

[kh0110]

I also have a Small Lots permit and it clearly stated that no phyto is needed IF you follow ALL the instructions. Here's an excerpt (not all conditions are shown here):

[fruitlovers]

Here's a little bit of USDA permit history for you history buffs:
1) Good ole days, no permit, phyto or otherwise necessary. Everything was just inspected and if clean cleared upon entry into USA.
2) About 20 years ago USDA got tough and required phyto for all plant parts including seeds.
3) About 9 years ago USDA buckled under pressure and allows small lots of seeds in without a phyto. Here is the original text proposing the change:

From USDA APHIS:

We are proposing to amend the nursery stock regulations to allow
the importation of small lots of seed under an import permit with
specific conditions, as an alternative to the current phytosanitary
certificate requirement. This proposed change is necessary because several entities that import small lots of seed-individual importers,
horticultural societies, arboreta, and small businesses have had difficulty obtaining the necessary certificates and have been adversely affected by the phytosanitary certificate requirement.
We will consider all comments that we receive on or before June
28, 2004.
 --------------------------------------------------------
USDA-APHIS RIN: 0579-AB78
Importation of Small Lots of Seed Without Phytosanitary
Certificates -- APHIS Docket No. 02-119-1
STAGE: Proposed Rule ECONOMICALLY SIGNIFICANT: No
RECEIVED: 02/23/2004 LEGAL DEADLINE: None
COMPLETED: 04/19/2004 Consistent w/no change

[KarenRei]

So you're on vacation in some fruit paradise. There, you find a variety of some fruit or something that you really love and want to bring back germplasm. However, you have no clue how to / lack the ability to get a phytosanitary certificate for the plant matter. What do you do?

essentially, if you don't know how to get a phyto for something in a foreign country, how do you do that, and if you can't what can you do to bring back the germplasm (legal options preferred  ). Is there a way or are you just screwed?

For "less than legal", I've mixed small herbaceous cuttings and bare roots into a bag of salad; I've also presented herbaceous cuttings as snacks for my parrot.    For woody cuttings and rooted plants, I've considered making things out of them, like parrot toys and perches, but never actually needed to.

[Mike T]

In the words of the Beatles, "I'm certain it happens all the time". I bet the budwood in the post would be detected almost half of the time. Maybe a little less often than that.

[TropicalFruitHunters]

You are better off going to Puerto Rico to try and pull any of this off.  For one thing, we've been sending stuff back thru the mail without any issues for years...plants that are bare root as well as in soilless media, cuttings, and seeds.

The following is a list of all agricultural items allowed into the US mainland from PR.  http://www.aphis.usda.gov/travel/content/wp_c_puerto_rico.shtml

This list specifically says plant cuttings and plants not in soil are allowed.  Seeds as well.  While we've taken fruit back with us and had no problems at the inspection stations at the airport, none of us have tested bringing seeds, plants, or cuttings back yet thru the airport. 

Our concern was whether or not the guys at the airport had the ability to inspect the plants, seeds, and cuttings...or if they would even take the time to do so.  They may have told us we need to go elsewhere for inspections...or just give a blanket "no".  Also, as many of us have found out the hard way...we sometimes suffer from their ignorance of their own laws so we didn't chance it.  We had a couple of contact names with the USDA down there but we never followed up on this since we decided to just mail stuff back instead.

We actually had a few USDA guys at Ian's farm and we were all set to ask them about all this.  When we remembered to ask, we discovered that they had had to leave the farm due to one of them getting sick.  We lost a great opportunity to discuss all of this in a setting that was perfect for doing so.

[Sven]

Most of the time it is easier just to send seeds back instead of carrying them through the airport.  If you are bringing plant material back without inspection just be careful, take from only healthy trees and don’t bring in plants that are grown extensively in your area such as citrus and avocado in Southern California, even seeds.  You could bring in a virus and wipe out an industry.  I used to have an import permit for any kind of plant material.  It really isn’t hard to obtain and do it legally if you plan ahead and take your time.

[plantlover13]

First of all, i know about seeds. I was referring to plant material.

Most of the time it is easier just to send seeds back instead of carrying them through the airport.  If you are bringing plant material back without inspection just be careful, take from only healthy trees and don’t bring in plants that are grown extensively in your area such as citrus and avocado in Southern California, even seeds.  You could bring in a virus and wipe out an industry.  I used to have an import permit for any kind of plant material.  It really isn’t hard to obtain and do it legally if you plan ahead and take your time.

Don't you still need a phyto with this kind of permit?

[fruitlovers]

You are better off going to Puerto Rico to try and pull any of this off.  For one thing, we've been sending stuff back thru the mail without any issues for years...plants that are bare root as well as in soilless media, cuttings, and seeds.

The following is a list of all agricultural items allowed into the US mainland from PR.  http://www.aphis.usda.gov/travel/content/wp_c_puerto_rico.shtml

This list specifically says plant cuttings and plants not in soil are allowed.  Seeds as well.  While we've taken fruit back with us and had no problems at the inspection stations at the airport, none of us have tested bringing seeds, plants, or cuttings back yet thru the airport. 

Our concern was whether or not the guys at the airport had the ability to inspect the plants, seeds, and cuttings...or if they would even take the time to do so.  They may have told us we need to go elsewhere for inspections...or just give a blanket "no". Also, as many of us have found out the hard way...we sometimes suffer from their ignorance of their own laws so we didn't chance it.  We had a couple of contact names with the USDA down there but we never followed up on this since we decided to just mail stuff back instead.

We actually had a few USDA guys at Ian's farm and we were all set to ask them about all this.  When we remembered to ask, we discovered that they had had to leave the farm due to one of them getting sick.  We lost a great opportunity to discuss all of this in a setting that was perfect for doing so.

Yes this is one of the biggest problems. A lot of the USDA agents don't understand their own rules, especially when they first come out. I remember being told in Hawaii i was the first one to use the Small Seed Lot Permit. None of the agents knew about it, and thiswas many months after the small seed lot permit came into effect. I had to speak to the head honcho to get my seeds cleared. So you do have to inform yourself, know very clearly what's going on, and stick to your guns. Remember it's much easier for an inspection agent to destroy your package than to have to inspect it, and many of them would rather take the lazy route and incinerate it.
Another very big problem now is that the first people you encounter at airports are now USDA agents, they
Homeland Border Patrol Agents. They know absolutely nothing about agriculture issues. Make sure to ask to be sent to USDA office in the airport. At least USDA won't be totally clueless like the border patrol agents.

[xshen]

Guava seeds will do fine in our digestive tract.  I've seen seedlings sprout out of humanure outside of public toilets back in rural southern China when I was a kid. 

So you're on vacation in some fruit paradise. There, you find a variety of some fruit or something that you really love and want to bring back germplasm. However, you have no clue how to / lack the ability to get a phytosanitary certificate for the plant matter. What do you do?

essentially, if you don't know how to get a phyto for something in a foreign country, how do you do that, and if you can't what can you do to bring back the germplasm (legal options preferred  ). Is there a way or are you just screwed?

Easy.  Eat the fruit shortly before you leave.  Be sure not to chew the seeds, but instead swallow them whole.  When you get home, poop in your garden and cover with a thin layer of soil.  Perfectly legal, as far as I know.

The above is not recommended for mamey sapote.

You'll get other ideas on the prisoner websites and forums (search for 'smuggling into prison') but I don't advise most of those methods.

Better look that up in snopes.com    I dont know one person that's been succesful with this in introducing even one single species. First it only is possible for seeds that aren't broken down by acids in the digestive system. Seeds also would have to be small enough to be eaten. But the biggest IF is that you don't have to go to the toilet before you make it home. That's a very big IF when travelling to Asia, Australia, South America, where the flight and transfer can take a whole day. I hate to be a party pooper. HAHAHAHAHA

[TriangleJohn]

Whatever you decide to do - just don't travel the way I travel! The friends I fly with and the places I visit are all government agriculture agencies (federal and state). They are there to inspect farms, I'm tagging along just for the fun of it. When its time to fly home, everything gets inspected. But I can usually make contacts with people stateside that are already growing the fun stuff I tasted while over seas. Often I am more interested in what the locals do with the fruits and veggies than how to get stuff back to my garden. Most of it won't grow here anyway.

[fruitlovers]

Whatever you decide to do - just don't travel the way I travel! The friends I fly with and the places I visit are all government agriculture agencies (federal and state). They are there to inspect farms, I'm tagging along just for the fun of it. When its time to fly home, everything gets inspected. But I can usually make contacts with people stateside that are already growing the fun stuff I tasted while over seas. Often I am more interested in what the locals do with the fruits and veggies than how to get stuff back to my garden. Most of it won't grow here anyway.

You give a good 4th alternative: try to source it when you get back, 99% of what you are going to encounter is already in USA.

[plantlover13]

Let's say we can't. There is no way to source in USA and you want to bring back germplasm. You don't want seeds of the variety. so two questions:

1) how do you get a phytosanitary certificate

2) how can you bring it back to the us without a phyto

and a third:

3) do you need a phyto if you have an import permit (NOT SMALL LOTS OF SEED AM TALKING ABOUT IMPORT PERMIT FOR PLANT MATTER)

[Sven]

Yes you still need a phyto even with a permit. I think you will have to go to the ag department or agent in whatever country you are in. I dont think you can bring anything in legally without a phyto.

This is for budwood or plants, not for seeds.

[Tomas]

Hi,

As far as I know you need phytosanitary certificate with Plant Import Permit, but not with Seed Import Permit ("small lot").

Tomas

[fruitlovers]

Let's say we can't. There is no way to source in USA and you want to bring back germplasm. You don't want seeds of the variety. so two questions:

1) how do you get a phytosanitary certificate

2) how can you bring it back to the us without a phyto

and a third:

3) do you need a phyto if you have an import permit (NOT SMALL LOTS OF SEED AM TALKING ABOUT IMPORT PERMIT FOR PLANT MATTER)

1) It's just like getting phyto sanitary certificate in USA: you apply for it and you have the material inspected, pay the fee and they give you the certificate. Depending on the country can be easy to extremely difficult. If you are in a country where you don't speak the language it's going to be more than difficult.
2) You can't. Don't even try it. Up to $500 fine if you try it and a big hassle.
3) Yes you need both for plant material: an import permit from USDA before leaving to another country, and then you need to get the phyto in the country you are wanting to take plants from.
If you are serious about doing this my suggestion is to precontact a nursery in the country you are planning to visit and have them do the paper work for you.

[FlyingFoxFruits]

you taught me a new word...humanure lol.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanure_(album)
 

Guava seeds will do fine in our digestive tract.  I've seen seedlings sprout out of humanure outside of public toilets back in rural southern China when I was a kid. 

So you're on vacation in some fruit paradise. There, you find a variety of some fruit or something that you really love and want to bring back germplasm. However, you have no clue how to / lack the ability to get a phytosanitary certificate for the plant matter. What do you do?

essentially, if you don't know how to get a phyto for something in a foreign country, how do you do that, and if you can't what can you do to bring back the germplasm (legal options preferred  ). Is there a way or are you just screwed?

Easy.  Eat the fruit shortly before you leave.  Be sure not to chew the seeds, but instead swallow them whole.  When you get home, poop in your garden and cover with a thin layer of soil.  Perfectly legal, as far as I know.

The above is not recommended for mamey sapote.

You'll get other ideas on the prisoner websites and forums (search for 'smuggling into prison') but I don't advise most of those methods.

Better look that up in snopes.com    I dont know one person that's been succesful with this in introducing even one single species. First it only is possible for seeds that aren't broken down by acids in the digestive system. Seeds also would have to be small enough to be eaten. But the biggest IF is that you don't have to go to the toilet before you make it home. That's a very big IF when travelling to Asia, Australia, South America, where the flight and transfer can take a whole day. I hate to be a party pooper. HAHAHAHAHA

[jcaldeira]

....Eat the fruit shortly before you leave.  Be sure not to chew the seeds, but instead swallow them whole.  When you get home, poop in your garden and cover with a thin layer of soil. ...

Better look that up in snopes.com    I dont know one person that's been succesful with this in introducing even one single species. ....

Don't poo-poo the idea.   It certainly works for tomato seeds.  Many seeds rely on animals to spread them through their digestive system.  Granted, the digestive system of every animal is different, but birds routinely spread hot pepper and papaya seeds on my farm.  Cattle are notorious for introducing noxious weeds through their manure. 

[fruitlovers]

....Eat the fruit shortly before you leave.  Be sure not to chew the seeds, but instead swallow them whole.  When you get home, poop in your garden and cover with a thin layer of soil. ...

Better look that up in snopes.com    I dont know one person that's been succesful with this in introducing even one single species. ....

Don't poo-poo the idea.   It certainly works for tomato seeds.  Many seeds rely on animals to spread them through their digestive system.  Granted, the digestive system of every animal is different, but birds routinely spread hot pepper and papaya seeds on my farm.  Cattle are notorious for introducing noxious weeds through their manure.

Yes that's true. But the species spread by animals eating them are usually weeds, like guava, or not at all rare, like tomatoes. Not rare fruits.