Author Topic: Drip irrigation/fertigation  (Read 4528 times)

Vernmented

  • Starry Nursery/Plant Hoarder/Zone Pusher/Biochar Enthusiast
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1331
    • USA, Florida, Sarasota, 9B/10A
    • View Profile
    • Starry Nursery Instagram
Drip irrigation/fertigation
« on: April 24, 2016, 09:42:08 PM »
I am ripping out my current sprinkler system that was set up for grass and replacing it with micro sprinklers or drip or both. Where is the best place to purchase? Are there certain brands that you guys and gals like prefer? I was thinking a few adjustable microsprinklers on each tree so get a good deep soak. I am probably going to get some sort of fertigation hooked up as well at some point. This is my first go with the stuff so any info or first hand experience is appreciated. This is for a "normal" sized subdivision lot.
-Josh

cos

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 220
    • Maui Hawaii
    • View Profile
Re: Drip irrigation/fertigation
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2016, 10:40:55 PM »
if you have ants beware as they crawled inside my sprayers & clogged them.
I now us a loop of drip tube & never a prob

CTMIAMI

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1972
    • View Profile
Re: Drip irrigation/fertigation
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2016, 10:58:27 PM »
I like mini sprinklers with a diameter of 15-18 ft putting out 25 gal or more an hour, I use Antelco, they are OK but I'm getting to many breakage so I'm looking for another source . at least 50% of my products get fertigated.
Carlos
 Tweeter: @carlosdlt280
www.myavocadotrees.com
zone 10a Miami-Dade County

Jct

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 138
  • Zone 10b
    • San Diego
    • View Profile
Re: Drip irrigation/fertigation
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2016, 12:49:21 AM »
Drip irrigation systems are nice, but they tend to be more fragile, at least the stuff I get from Home Depot.  I do not have anything else to compare it with, but they are relatively inexpensive but do require regular maintenace.

Around the periphery of the yard I had a standard irrigation system that I've slowly converted to drip. With all the water restrictions here in Cali, we're severely restricted in how long we can run standard irrigation systems.  The restrictions are loosened when it come to drip systems, so I can run them longer to better irrigate by fruit and vegetables, but still save water over a traditional system. But the dogs running around the fence line will often step on the drip irrigation lines and every so often will pull one out.  Over time they tend to work themselves loose.  The HD brand is easy to work with and set up to my needs.
LaVerne Manila Mango; Pixie Crunch, Honeycrisp & Gala Apple Trees; Violette De Bordeaux & Black Mission Fig; Santa Rosa Plum & Snow Queen Nectarine; Nagami Kumquat, Pixie Tangerine, Lemon, Australian Finger Lime & Washington Navel Citrus; White & Red Dragon Fruit; Miracle Berry Plant

Tropicdude

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2117
    • Broward County, Florida, USA
    • View Profile
Re: Drip irrigation/fertigation
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2016, 02:52:13 AM »
if you have ants beware as they crawled inside my sprayers & clogged them.
I now us a loop of drip tube & never a prob

This has been a major problem with commercial farms using drip systems in the D.R. ants get in the tubes, and clog up the drippers/emitters and so on.  If I remember the discussion, newer emitters are being made, so that ants cannot get in them so easily.
William
" The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago.....The second best time, is now ! "

gnappi

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1974
    • South East Florida (U.S.A) Zone 10A
    • View Profile
Re: Drip irrigation/fertigation
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2016, 06:36:14 AM »
I did not want to rip out my sprinkler system that was designed for the lawn so my solution(s) were:

Where possible I use bubblers. Ants do not get in them and water goes where I want it.

By using 1/4, 1/2, and full coverage brass heads on tall 2' risers I can direct more water where I want it. I also set the head flow rate to thoroughly wet my areas. Plus adding time to each zone gets a more thorough soaking.

We are only allowed sprinkler watering 2x a week but I use the hoses to get the very few places the sprinklers do not cover by hand watering. We can hand water with a hose anytime which I mainly use for potted trees.

I also set 2 hoses out in areas not covered when the sprinklers are running the 2 days on the timer.

Luckily I foresaw these possible coverage issues when I replaced my well pump and all the plumbing and added enough hose bibbs to work with the sprinkler system.




Regards,

   Gary

Tropheus76

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 923
    • East Orlando 9B
    • View Profile
Re: Drip irrigation/fertigation
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2016, 07:58:28 AM »
I repurposed the existing sprinkler system in my yard. The original owner used the property for riding dirt bikes and ATVs and wanted full coverage to keep the dust down. I have florida crab grass for lawn and it doesn't need watering so I have run about 200 foot of pvc piping and added Rainbird sprinklers from HD. Aside from recently having to replace the irrigation pump and the occasional standpipe from running it over with the mower there hasn't been any issues. Seems to work pretty well but I use the brass heads and not the cheaper plastic ones.

Vernmented

  • Starry Nursery/Plant Hoarder/Zone Pusher/Biochar Enthusiast
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1331
    • USA, Florida, Sarasota, 9B/10A
    • View Profile
    • Starry Nursery Instagram
Re: Drip irrigation/fertigation
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2016, 10:57:24 AM »
Thank you all for the responses. Part of the reason I am doing this is because I have an almost hardpan layer 6-8 inches down that goes to about 2.5 - 3 feet. I finally realized that my house was built on "sawgrass muck". It is real dark and really compacted old swamp lakebed but just below that is a very distinct change to bright white virgin well draining sand.

I bought a gas powered auger and an extension bit to bust everything up. I want to remove the existing sprinkler lines so I don't have to worry about drilling through them when I am working. Luckily the last 20% of trees I put in I already dug out "burying a body" sized holes, got through that layer, and amended with pine fines and perlite. It will be so nice to know exactly where everything is buried and have it customized.

I also have watering restrictions with the county for 1 day a week so I will link all of the grass zone sprinklers out front to one zone and keep the basic pop up sprinklers in there. The rest I should be able to dial in however I want.

There isn't any grass to mow around the planted area so it is looking like I will just put hose bibs around the yard to hook up the irrigation tubing which can run above ground. The mulch or perennial peanut/sunshine mimosa ground cover can cover it up. Maybe I will put in an optional valved bypass at the beginning of each zone or just after the pump/in front of the valves to hook up a small fertigation tank? A separate zoned hose bib line in different locations for a garden hose hook up?

My irrigation is hooked up to a well with a submersible pump.  I don't have a bladder tank or an above ground pump with a pressure switch. I have a sprinkler control box with different zones that tells the valve to open and the relay to kick on the pump. The house is on city water so the well is for irrigation only. I remember my dad telling me he got an "extra deep well" put in. Do I need an inline filter for the micro sprinklers?

Here is the guts of the system.

Well with submersed pump


Relay


Controller


I figured I would just move all of the valves close to the pump in a single manifold. Right now they are spread all over the yard. Seems strange but maybe there is a reason for it.
-Josh

FrankDrebinOfFruits

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 390
    • Kauai, HI 12A
    • View Profile
Re: Drip irrigation/fertigation
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2016, 04:49:09 PM »
I bury my 1/2" drip line about 2 to 3 inches down. This reduces UV damage and keeps the mower from ripping it up. So far, its been a few years, and its been much better to have it buried than above ground. Above ground the sun hits it and heats it up and it expands, causing it to rise to mower deck height.  They sell spikes to hold the line down but it gets very expensive very quickly. I have also heard of people making hold down stakes out of clothes hangers, which I didn't think would be very good for tires or the mower blades.

I found that no matter what the orifice size is, ants will find a way in. The best ones don't have a mesh, since the mesh only holds the fat ants in. Another trick is to not use a pressure reducer at the spigot. Letting the pressure run higher at the emitter blows the ants out.  The ants like to crawl into the line to get a drink and then fill up and cannot get out since they are bigger once they have had a good drink.  I usually have to walk the around every week or two and pop the emitters off and suck the ants out. Its not fun, but somebody has to do it.  It would be nice if there was a a super powered vacuum (or bulb syringe) that would suck them out of the individual emitters.  Cleaning the emitter saves a lot of money but you wouldn't want to do it if you use ferts in the drip system, it would probably be a haven for bacteria...

To add some grossness, I have only been bitten on the tongue a few times so far  :P
« Last Edit: April 25, 2016, 04:51:54 PM by FrankDrebinOfFruits »

Vernmented

  • Starry Nursery/Plant Hoarder/Zone Pusher/Biochar Enthusiast
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1331
    • USA, Florida, Sarasota, 9B/10A
    • View Profile
    • Starry Nursery Instagram
Re: Drip irrigation/fertigation
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2016, 08:36:07 PM »
Well the ants sound like a real PITA. I might have to really bump up my boric acid ant baits around the yard. Thanks for the comments.
-Josh

Cookie Monster

  • Broward, FL Zone 10b
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4745
  • Eye like mangoes
    • Tamarac, FL, 33321, 10B
    • View Profile
Re: Drip irrigation/fertigation
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2016, 08:56:12 PM »
For busting up the muck layer, you could hire a guy with a mini-backhoe for a day. When I started planting out the lot next door, I hired a guy with a mini backhoe to cut 8 foot diameter, 3 feet deep holes and remove the limestone. The cost to have him dig the holes and haul away the rubble was actually pretty reasonable, and he was able to knock it out really quickly.

For backfilling the holes, you could haul in a few dozen yards of sandy topsoil for pretty cheap. I was getting high quality sandy loam for about 300 / 18 cubic yard load.
Jeff  :-)

goosteen

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 152
    • Los Angeles CA, 10a
    • View Profile
Re: Drip irrigation/fertigation
« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2016, 10:43:07 PM »
You want this stuff.. it's the best, and will block insects.. the hardware stuff store stuff is junk. 

http://www.sprinklersupplystore.com/netafim-12-inch-spacing-drip-tube-17mm-p/tlcv6-12025.htm

You'll also need an inline filter and a pressure regulator.

Then don't forget, with drip you run the water for hours, not minutes.

Tropheus76

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 923
    • East Orlando 9B
    • View Profile
Re: Drip irrigation/fertigation
« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2016, 08:05:02 AM »
Are you on a personal irrigation well or do you use public water? I think my plants and trees would suffer if I only ran once a week. I water three times a week with 10 minutes for 4 zones and 20 for the other two starting at 0330 in the morning. We have no restrictions that I am aware of. Because I have stuff all over the yard, every time I smell smoke I turn the system on just to get the ground and mulch around the trees wet.

As for soil, we have this dark grey sand that's fairly compact at first but then loosens into super light sand. Of course below that we have various strata of white sand and brown dirt. Cant really dig much further than 3 or 4 feet as you hit water. Even shallower if it rained. Our ground is so drainable I ran a water pipe from my washer out of the house and put the end about 5 feet down in a bed of rocks. Water only comes up if we have had a lot of rain then its a simple matter to put it back in the septic until things dry down.

Out of curiosity if anyone knows, will a tree with tap roots send it(them) down to the water table? If so would this tree need to continue to be watered since it essentially has an unlimited supply? I wouldn't expect it to go directly into the water but would think the moist soil above it would be the prime location.

Mark in Texas

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4220
    • Fredericksburg Texas, (central TX), zone 8a
    • View Profile
Re: Drip irrigation/fertigation
« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2016, 08:09:57 AM »

This has been a major problem with commercial farms using drip systems in the D.R. ants get in the tubes, and clog up the drippers/emitters and so on.  If I remember the discussion, newer emitters are being made, so that ants cannot get in them so easily.

I have over 10,000' of drip line on the ground and never had a problem with ants or other bugs.  Fire ants are a big pest.  I use 1/2 or 1 gph because of my clay (I don't want run off).  My favorite emitter is Woodpecker.  I have to run a sulfuric acid solution thru the lines occasionally and open them up at least annually to get rid of excess bicarb salts.  I can run over the 1/2" drip lines with a tractor, dogs can mess with them - no problem.

Dripworks.com is a good source.  Install an inline filter.  Amiad with their S/S screens are the best.  There's also a type for wells having a sediment problem.  The sand collects in the body and when you want to get rid of it you just hold a 5 gal. bucket below it and open up the valve for a few seconds.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2016, 08:13:55 AM by Mark in Texas »

Mark in Texas

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4220
    • Fredericksburg Texas, (central TX), zone 8a
    • View Profile
Re: Drip irrigation/fertigation
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2016, 08:18:18 AM »
Out of curiosity if anyone knows, will a tree with tap roots send it(them) down to the water table? If so would this tree need to continue to be watered since it essentially has an unlimited supply? I wouldn't expect it to go directly into the water but would think the moist soil above it would be the prime location.

Depends on the specie (bald cypress grows in water) or if it's say, a peach or pecan any impediment to the tap root will terminate it - rock, hardpan, water table, etc.

Mr. Clean

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1186
  • FLMangos.com
    • US, FL, West Palm Beach, Zone 10a
    • View Profile
    • Florida's Finest Mangos
Re: Drip irrigation/fertigation
« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2016, 11:07:39 AM »
At my local Rare Fruit Council I gave a presentation on "Micro Irrigation For The Home," where I detailed what I got and from what stores.  I've had my system for about three years.  You want "spray sticks" because they are very easy to clear a clog, just pull them out while the water is running and re-insert.  The best place locally is Loxhatchee Irrigation, you can get about 100 spray sticks for $20.  1000' of "spaghetti" hose, about $20-30.  Its the stuff the nursery's use.  Hopefully you can find a local store.

www.FLMangos.com

110+ fruit trees/plants; 60+ mango trees; 9 jackfruit; 6 avocado; 3 persimmon; longan; and a dog that keeps raccoons and squirrels away.

Vernmented

  • Starry Nursery/Plant Hoarder/Zone Pusher/Biochar Enthusiast
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1331
    • USA, Florida, Sarasota, 9B/10A
    • View Profile
    • Starry Nursery Instagram
Re: Drip irrigation/fertigation
« Reply #16 on: April 27, 2016, 11:29:04 PM »
This is a lot of help. Thanks guys.

@Mark in Texas The website is great. Do you use a sulfuric acid injector to lower pH as well or just run some though for cleaning? Thanks for the tips.

@Cookie Monster I wish I could. Most of my yard is planted out already. There are a few open spots I can really dig into and some trees I planted early on that I will try to transplant to more ideal spots. I don't have much room here. I ended up digging out about 40% under my jackfruit that was showing signs of what I thought was root rot or phytophtora. It was crazy. I had two big holes dug out and then used the auger sideways in the hole and was scraping away by hand. I felt like I was escaping from Alcatraz. I had a tunnel that connected the two holes below the roots and that muck held in place like a rock. I ended up filling it all in with pine fines, perlite, peat, the busted up stuff from the hole, and some biohar then I blasted through the rootzone above the fresh fill with a water hose attachment I built out of a 5 foot piece of 1/2 inch PVC to loosen up the root zone and blend it in. So far it looks ok and it is still holding it's fruit. Hopefully it takes off after it recovers. It was a test to see how far I could go. The last stuff I planted that I dug obscenely large holes for are looking great.

@Mr. Clean Those spray stakes look dummy proof. I will definitely be trialing some of those.

@goosteen That hose just has small holes in it right? Like drip tape that you lay it out and you don't have to add any emitters?

@Tropheus76 I am on a well. I would only run the lawn sprinklers out front on their own zone one day a week per regulation. Everything else I could customize to the needs of each tree with this new system. If you bought a tree from a nursery the taproot is worthless. You are better off chopping it out when you get the plant home in my opinion. I guarantee if you bring home any fruit tree from a nursery and you bare root it there will be a contorted root system in the shape of a 1 gal pot inside a contorted root system of a 3 gallon pot. You could dig a deep hole with a post hole digger or auger by your tree and fill it in making sure there aren't and obstructions and plant a seed. Make sure the seed was planted before it was oriented or the tap root will shoot out a different way other then down. Inarch graft that root system to the existing tree if you really want a taproot. Or you could just prep your planting mounds and plant seeds, wait for them to grow, then find budwood.
-Josh

Mark in Texas

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4220
    • Fredericksburg Texas, (central TX), zone 8a
    • View Profile
Re: Drip irrigation/fertigation
« Reply #17 on: April 28, 2016, 09:20:17 AM »
This is a lot of help. Thanks guys.

@Mark in Texas The website is great. Do you use a sulfuric acid injector to lower pH as well or just run some though for cleaning? Thanks for the tips.


I use it only to clean the emitters.  What real world value it has I don't know.  May just be a feel good thing.  I know of a large vineyard in calcareous soils like mine that does inject sulfuric acid into his drip lines with the aim of dropping soil pH.  That's an impossible task as our limestone based soils have an extreme buffering capacity. No amount of acids will buffer them more than a day or two, if that long.

michsu

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 547
    • Hacienda Heights, CA (Southern California, Los Angeles)
    • View Profile
    • Pictures of my trees.. nothing fancy
Re: Drip irrigation/fertigation
« Reply #18 on: April 28, 2016, 09:28:26 AM »

Tropicdude

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2117
    • Broward County, Florida, USA
    • View Profile
Re: Drip irrigation/fertigation
« Reply #19 on: April 29, 2016, 01:06:32 AM »
Out of curiosity if anyone knows, will a tree with tap roots send it(them) down to the water table? If so would this tree need to continue to be watered since it essentially has an unlimited supply? I wouldn't expect it to go directly into the water but would think the moist soil above it would be the prime location.

Depends on the specie (bald cypress grows in water) or if it's say, a peach or pecan any impediment to the tap root will terminate it - rock, hardpan, water table, etc.

Correct me if I am wrong, but even if a big tree has "tapped" into a deep water source,  I would think the surface roots, ( horizontal, slope runners etc ) need to be watered occasionally to help them take up nutrients from the soil.  besides any biological processes that need moisture , bacteria and such to break down organic matter etc.
William
" The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago.....The second best time, is now ! "

Mark in Texas

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4220
    • Fredericksburg Texas, (central TX), zone 8a
    • View Profile
Re: Drip irrigation/fertigation
« Reply #20 on: April 29, 2016, 09:09:19 AM »
Correct me if I am wrong, but even if a big tree has "tapped" into a deep water source,  I would think the surface roots, ( horizontal, slope runners etc ) need to be watered occasionally to help them take up nutrients from the soil.  besides any biological processes that need moisture , bacteria and such to break down organic matter etc.

Don't think you're wrong at all.  It's my understanding the tap root acts more as an anchor while the very young branching roots with root hairs feed.