Author Topic: Growing Mango trees in Southern California  (Read 180099 times)

CA Hockey

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Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #150 on: October 02, 2017, 01:26:25 AM »
Here is that picture of the 15gal La Verne Manila mango I found for sale.




I called la Verne and asked them directly. They said they use the same rootstock for all their mangoesband just graft on other varieties (like keitt). For Manila, they just let thebrootstock grow.

I did try and graft on earlier this season. Didn't takenbutbthat was probably me.

I recently found a 15 gallon la Verne Manila monster at h&h nursery in Lakewood. Couldn't believe the size of this juggernaut. Will post a picture if I can figure that out later.




arc310

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Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #151 on: October 02, 2017, 01:35:16 AM »
how far apart are you guys here in socal planting the mango trees from each other?  i read that our climate here does limit growth (so not like the huge mango trees i see in every yard in hawaii when i was there haha).

BestDay

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Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #152 on: October 02, 2017, 09:43:36 AM »
Mine are planted seven to eight feet apart. After a year and a half in the ground it seems like reasonable spacing. Only time will tell though.

Bill

simon_grow

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Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #153 on: October 14, 2017, 12:00:51 PM »
I copy and pasted this from another thread because the discussion is useful here:
I have a bunch of random seedlings and it’s too early to say for sure but they all seem to grow as well as the Lavern Manilla Mango seedlings.

Simon

Interesting.  What do you think it is about the Turpentine seedlings they use in Florida that makes them particularly bad for California?  I ask because if so many different seedlings can work for us, but Turpentine doesn't, there must be something about it that makes it uniquely bad for us and good in Florida.

I’ve been contemplating this fact for about the last six years and can’t say for sure what it is but there are several possibilities that do pop up in my head.

One of the possibilities is the fact that the trees are initially grown and potted in Florida and we don’t know how long they’ve been in the pots. They can be in the pots for extended periods of time because they need to be shipped to California and once they reach their destination here, they still need to be displayed at the Nursery where they may sit for another several months up to several years before they are sold. Based on my own personal experience, trees that are immediately planted into the ground as soon as they are purchased establish faster and appear to be much healthier than a tree that is purchased and kept in a pot for an extended period of time before planting.

Having stated the above, I was delivered several trees which were smaller and very healthy when I received them and I immediately planted them into the ground and they still died. They were Tebow, Carrie, NDM #4 and Mallika.

Another possibility is that there are disease pressures here that are not prevalent in Florida. Some of the major issues we get here is Phomopsis, gummosis and droopy branches that seem to lignify at a small diameter and not expanding much, or at all, after the lignification. I can pretty easily look at a Mango trees trunk and branches and tell whether it’s a Florida tree or not.

We have noticed several details that should give us a clue as to why the Florida trees perform so poorly here. Several varieties such as Valencia Pride, Lemon Zest, Sweet Tart and a few others appear to grow very well here on Florida rootstock although they still get some dieback, gummosis and droopy branches. These varieties are all vigorous and seem to be able to outgrow whatever it is that’s inhibiting other varieties on Florida rootstock.

Another pattern that I have noticed over the years is that the Florida rootstock trees appear to grow much better in areas with more heat units. This should be obvious to most people but it can easily be overlooked when we are focused on a specific geographical location such as Florida Vs SoCal. In Palm Springs, Gary’s trees on Florida rootstock are growing very well and even his Lemon Zest on Florida Turpentine rootstock is growing excellent and producing lots of high quality fruit.

When we focus in specifically on SoCal, I have noticed a trend where all the microclimates with higher heat units such as La Habra, Anaheim Hills and other slightly warmer cities in SoCal have much better success with Florida trees than in cooler climates like mine.

I know we would like to keep it simple and find the one reason why the Florida rootstock trees perform so poorly here but nature is complex and dynamic and I believe the issue is a combination of all the factors I listed above.

If I were to make my best guess right now, I would say that the Florida trees perform poorly here because (1) of the long duration they are kept in their pots, both at the Nursery in Florida, the Nursery here in SoCal and also at the homeowners property before they are planted into the ground.
(2) there are disease pressures here, or acquired in Florida, that affect our trees much more severely because of reason (1) above and because our cooler climate does not enable our trees to outgrow the disease pressures as easily as if they were grown at a warmer climate with higher heat units such as that of Florida or warmer parts of SoCal.

A grower can better understand what I’m describing above if you track how many vegetative growth flushes we get here Vs what Floridians get. Some of my Florida rootstock trees such as Glenn, Edward, Spirit of 76 and Maha Chanok have been in the ground about 7 years now and on average, they only vegetatively flush twice a year.

This is partially due to the fact that they bloom and hold fruit for about 6+ months out of the year and we only get good vegetative flushes for the warmest 2-4 months depending on where you live.

In order to capitalize on this small window period of “Ideal” growing weather, the Mango grower must water and fertilize properly in order to take advantage of these conditions.

I will copy and paste this into my “Growing Mango trees in SoCal” thread as I am drifting off topic.

Simon

barath

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Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #154 on: October 14, 2017, 12:09:05 PM »
Thanks Simon for the detailed answer.  That makes sense, and I'm happy with a complex answer rather than a simple one.

I wonder if a corollary is that we might want to find varieties (or related species) that are from higher elevations in the tropics and use those as rootstock here to improve year round growth.

simon_grow

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Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #155 on: October 14, 2017, 02:03:25 PM »
That could work. Seedlings are highly variable however and Polyembryonic varieties would be the best choice for consistency. Monoembryonic varieties have too much genetic diversity and each seedling can have growth habits completely different than another seedling from the same mother tree.

Here is a picture of a Kent, Keitt, Haden not sure which one, seedling that is approximately 3-4 months old. It is almost two feet tall and has a strong trunk for a seedling it’s size. It grew so fast because of the fertilizer and the timing of the growth. It went through it’s seedling growth period during Summer and was able to capitalize on all the heat.



Simon

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Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #156 on: October 14, 2017, 02:23:18 PM »
Here are a few other random Mango seedlings I have planted in the yard.







So preliminary results show that random seedlings grow as well as LaVern Manilla. Productivity, disease resistance and long term survivability are yet to be unseen however Leo Manuel has many huge Mango trees and the majority of them are top worked seedling trees.
Simon

CBG35

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Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #157 on: November 22, 2017, 12:58:39 PM »
Here are pictures of my trees.  Some ordered from Florida, some purchased at Champa Nursery, some from Exotica.  All on Turpentine, I believe.

My Phoenix.  First year in the ground, planted in March.  Growing vigorously, no flowering this year.



Ice Cream.  In ground 2 years.  Slow growing as expected.  Has flowered but also grows vegetatively.  Not my worst performer.



Lemon Meringue. My best sized tree.  2 yrs in the ground.  Only grows vegetatively, no flowering so far (which is good).



More coming....

Cyndie

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Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #158 on: November 22, 2017, 01:18:35 PM »
Sweet Tart.  First year in the ground. Has flowered and is growing more slowly than some others.



Fruit Punch.  First year in the ground.  Growing vegetatively pretty well.  No flowering.



Lemon Zest.  First year in the ground.  Growing nicely.  No flowering yet.



Cotton Candy Mango.  First year in the ground. Experienced transplant shock but recovered.  Growing but slowly. 



Carrie Mango.  2 yrs in the ground. Flowers a lot.



Malika Mango.  2 yrs in the ground. Flowers constantly. One of the worst for this reason.



Cyndie



CBG35

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Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #159 on: November 22, 2017, 01:28:24 PM »
Nam Doc Mai.   2 yrs in the ground. Flowers constantly.  Didn't expect this with NDM as I've seen mature NDM grown pretty close to me.



Valencia Pride.  2 yrs in the ground. Thought I could get away with a small tree since it's known to be a vigorous grower.  Made the mistake on accident of letting this fruit in the first year (Didn't see the fruit until it was too late) and it has been stunted and has grown very slowly as a result.  I hope it will recover.



Well that's it besides a Manila which I am growing and will eventually top work.   I wanted to share so we can all learn from each other to see what Mangoes are growing well in San Diego. I am at 700 ft elevation, 9B. 

Cyndie

behlgarden

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Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #160 on: November 22, 2017, 03:09:14 PM »
here is monster seed trying to explode with very strong roots, it came from 30-brix sweet tart I had from my yard.

its in pot now waiting to sprout!


simon_grow

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Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #161 on: November 24, 2017, 07:38:16 PM »
Cyndie,

Thanks for posting all the pictures! You have a great selection. I am eager to see how your trees perform since most of them are on Florida rootstocks. There were several members here from this forum that planted many Mango trees from Florida and when I messaged them to ask how their trees are doing, they told me that the majority of the trees have already died or are in decline with very slow growth.

Some varieties, namely the more vigorous varieties seem to grow well and even thrive but my observations so far is that the trees would probably be even larger and more productive if it were on a different rootstock. If your soil has a good pH, good draining, mulched well and you get enough heat units, the Florida trees may perform well for you. We have one member here that has lots of Florida trees that seem to be thriving but he is one of only a handful of people having success with Florida rootstock trees so far.

Even when Florida trees grow well here, they tend to be droopy and need to be propped up and it can sometimes take several years before you see a decline in growth rate.

Most your trees look good so far so hopefully they will grow well for you. I recommend planting a few random seedlings next year from store bought fruit and see how their growth rate compares to the Florida rootstock trees. You may be shocked, maybe not?
Simon

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Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #162 on: November 24, 2017, 07:43:24 PM »
here is monster seed trying to explode with very strong roots, it came from 30-brix sweet tart I had from my yard.

its in pot now waiting to sprout!


Behl, that’s awesome, I have several ST and LZ seedlings growing. I came up with a technique to split polyembryonic Mango seedlings. Simply grow the seed in a pot and once the seedlings are several inches tall, dig them up and crack the seed along the ridge lines.








Simon

CBG35

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Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #163 on: November 25, 2017, 04:42:59 PM »
Simon,

Thanks, it should be interesting.  I am considering pulling out the varieties that flower constantly and keeping them in pots for scion wood and planting manila seedlings.  I might also try to plant the same variety on Manila already grafted to see if the rootstock makes a difference. I am determined to be successful growing Mangoes!!

Cyndie

barath

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Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #164 on: November 25, 2017, 05:13:02 PM »
Simon,

Do you have a recommendation of how high up a La Verne mango should be grafted?  In the past I've usually grafted very low, like I do with avocados (no more than 1 foot from the base) but I'm guessing that will just make the flowering problem more challenging?  The flip side is that I don't want to deal with too many suckers, which I figure will be worse if I graft higher.  I'm curious what you've found works best.

simon_grow

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Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #165 on: November 25, 2017, 10:32:31 PM »
Simon,

Do you have a recommendation of how high up a La Verne mango should be grafted?  In the past I've usually grafted very low, like I do with avocados (no more than 1 foot from the base) but I'm guessing that will just make the flowering problem more challenging?  The flip side is that I don't want to deal with too many suckers, which I figure will be worse if I graft higher.  I'm curious what you've found works best.

Barath, remember that I recommend grafting only when the rootstock is fully mature, in other words, top work the established seedling or Manilla Mango when it has been established for several years and is large and mature enough for holding fruit to maturity.

This will require a lot of planning because you will have to establish good scaffold branches but it will give you better results in the end because you will avoid wasted energy spent on flowering and holding fruit on young grafted but unestablished trees. Unfortunately you will also have to put on multiple grafts, at least one for each main branch that you are converting.

I know many of us will not have the time or patience to wait until our rootstocks are established for several years before grafting so if you must graft young trees, I recommend grafting low. For all of my DSGed trees and CSMR trees, they are all grafted at about 3-6 inches from the ground to minimize branching from the rootstock. This technique has the benefit that you only need to put one graft on but because you Grafted low and on a young tree, the tree will flower within 2 years and you will get a slower growing tree due to expenditure of energy on flowering.

Simon

barath

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Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #166 on: November 25, 2017, 11:02:08 PM »
Simon,

Do you have a recommendation of how high up a La Verne mango should be grafted?  In the past I've usually grafted very low, like I do with avocados (no more than 1 foot from the base) but I'm guessing that will just make the flowering problem more challenging?  The flip side is that I don't want to deal with too many suckers, which I figure will be worse if I graft higher.  I'm curious what you've found works best.

Barath, remember that I recommend grafting only when the rootstock is fully mature, in other words, top work the established seedling or Manilla Mango when it has been established for several years and is large and mature enough for holding fruit to maturity.

This will require a lot of planning because you will have to establish good scaffold branches but it will give you better results in the end because you will avoid wasted energy spent on flowering and holding fruit on young grafted but unestablished trees. Unfortunately you will also have to put on multiple grafts, at least one for each main branch that you are converting.

I know many of us will not have the time or patience to wait until our rootstocks are established for several years before grafting so if you must graft young trees, I recommend grafting low. For all of my DSGed trees and CSMR trees, they are all grafted at about 3-6 inches from the ground to minimize branching from the rootstock. This technique has the benefit that you only need to put one graft on but because you Grafted low and on a young tree, the tree will flower within 2 years and you will get a slower growing tree due to expenditure of energy on flowering.

Simon

Thanks!  I guess what I will try to do for now is graft low and then pot up the trees into 15 gallon pots and keep them in the greenhouse to try to keep them from flowering too much.

spaugh

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Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #167 on: April 03, 2018, 12:39:26 AM »
Member GregA sent this photo and txt msg to me a few months ago.  Figured you guys would like it.

"Saw this mango at a car wash in Point Loma today. Bare dirt, trash, and asphalt for mulch"

Brad Spaugh

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Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #168 on: April 03, 2018, 08:15:50 AM »
Awesome, I bet it’s a seedling. I love seeing thriving Mango trees.

Simon

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Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #169 on: April 03, 2018, 10:39:56 AM »
Monoembryonic varieties have too much genetic diversity and each seedling can have growth habits completely different than another seedling from the same mother tree.
Simon

I agree but exceptions always remain. I had a Fruit Punch seedling into 3.5 yrs that grew may be 8 inches total. I also have its scion that I grafted 2.5 yrs ago that grew 3 inches. so this particular seed was a total failure. I am still going to wait to see what that graft does in next several years, LOL

My recommendation is whether you use mono or poly, pick the most aggressive growing seedling for graft and you wont go wrong. You can tell in 6 months if its aggressive or not. One of my kent seedlings grew almost 3/8" in dia and 12 inches tall in about 7 months.

CA Hockey

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Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #170 on: April 03, 2018, 12:27:59 PM »
Agreed. My mom planted a mango seed at her house - 6 years later and it’s shorter tha n my 1 yr old.

Brad - funny you mention a car wash. M‘Y dad owns a car wash in Glendora and he has a seedling thatbis 40 feet tall and produces abundant numbers of small tasty mangoes.

And being inland, Glendora gets really hot during the days but can get quite chilly at night.

K

simon_grow

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Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #171 on: April 03, 2018, 06:07:14 PM »
I actually get faster initial growth rates from Monoembryonic Mango seeds and I hypothesized that it was caused by the seedling having all the resources and food energy stored within the seed where as Polyembryonic Mangos have the seed energy dispersed between multiple seedlings.

The context in which I mentioned that Monoembryonic seedlings have too much genetic diversity is that Monoembryonic seedlings are different from clonal rootstocks. Some people new to growing fruit trees might think that all seedlings arising from a Kent Mango seed for example will grow and produce identical Fruit and trees but this is not the case. Two Kent Mango seedlings can have very different growth rates, shape and smell of leaves/sap/Fruit even though both seedlings are from Kent fruit.

The maternal parent is Kent but the pollinating parent could be anything and even if it was selfed, there is recombination of the genes which can affect the resultant seedlings disease resistance, growth rate and Fruit.

Mono embryonic seeds can make excellent rootstocks but you will get offtypes.

Simon

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Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #172 on: April 04, 2018, 12:46:44 AM »
Agreed. My mom planted a mango seed at her house - 6 years later and it’s shorter tha n my 1 yr old.

Brad - funny you mention a car wash. M‘Y dad owns a car wash in Glendora and he has a seedling thatbis 40 feet tall and produces abundant numbers of small tasty mangoes.

And being inland, Glendora gets really hot during the days but can get quite chilly at night.

K

Hey Ca Hockey,

Where about sis the car wash?  I live in Covina/San Dimas border.  My kids go to school in Glendora..
I’d like to see that tree and maybe taste one of the mangos when available

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Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #173 on: April 07, 2018, 01:00:25 AM »
thanks for all the info
going to start with a couple manilla seelings
when do the retail nurseries usaully get la verne stock and best place to get them in the san diego bay area

simon_grow

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Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #174 on: April 07, 2018, 11:39:09 AM »
You can get Lavern Manilla Mangos at Walter Anderson Nursery, Armstrong Nursery and Home Depot. Home Depot and Walter Anderson are probably cheapest at around $25-30 per tree. If you know someone with a nursery license, you can get trees for really cheap directly from Lavern Nursery.

I would also recommend planting a bunch of random seedlings in case one happens to adapt better to your particular growing conditions.

Simon