RX for nutritional deficiencies in Meiwa and Tango?

[lemons4us]

These two poor trees have been suffering for too long. They are in an unheated greenhouse in Seattle, planted in 5-1-1, but they've been exhibiting these nutrient deficiencies for quite some time. The Tango looks starved for N (also it had some very tiny fruits this year), and I have no idea what's going on with the Meiwa (1st two photos). I fertilize with Foliage-Pro, but clearly they're not getting what they need.
I'm wondering if the pH in the potting medium is off, which (as I understand it) would compromise their nutritional uptake?
Right now I'm thinking my only option is to repot?

Any advice/help much appreciated!

[poncirsguy]

I have kumquats and I can assure you that is what kumquats do.  I am listening for an answer.

[brian]

I don't think that is normal for kumquats or any citrus, they look pretty badly deficient in something. 

[Millet]

Pictures 1 & 2are showing the classic symptoms of an iron deficiency. Iron deficiency symptoms in citrus are:  New leaves with green veins on otherwise yellow leaf, and no wide green area sticking out from the vein.  Deficiency often caused by high pH rather than a shortage of minerals.

Pictures 3 & 4 :  Looking at the pictures it is difficult to see if the leaf veins are either yellow/orange or green.  Yellow veins would show an iron deficiency, while green veins would demonstrate a nitrogen deficiency.  Since both trees are yours, and are showing  deficiencies at the same time, they are both most probably suffering from the same problem.  You wrote that you are fertilizing with Foliage Pro but have not stated the amount of fertilizer used and how often you fertilize.  Foliage Pro does have a 0.1% iron concentration,  but with the rapid drainage of a 5-1-1 medium you could be washing out much of your fertilizer.  Know that citrus require MORE nutrition than most other plants.The quickest iron deficiency remedy would be a foliar spray with an Iron Chelate solution. Beyond the quick help of Iron Chelate foliar treatment you need to correct the pattern of care that caused this situation in the first place.  I would not be surprised that you are under fertilizing. The best to you and your trees.
 

[lemons4us]

Thank you Millet for your expertise.
I probably need to be a better fertilizer. I have attempted to follow the dictum "weakly, weekly", when fertilizing - however I usually fertilize a day after watering, and in the winter, I definitely don't need to water my citrus in the unheated greenhouse on a weekly basis. Still, my other trees (Meyers (3), Variegated Eureka, Gold Nugget, &Bouquet de Fleurs) aren't showing any deficiencies, and the Meyers have given me a lot of fruit this winter. I also have a Tahoe, which admittedly is too yellow, but currently flushing, and a Page which has mostly green leaves, but is definitely lacking in vigor.
The Tango and Meiwa really stand out in the greenhouse for their poor appearance. I will try chelated iron/foliar spray and also up my general fertilizing program. If I can improve their general health, I'll post some happy "after" photos;)

I keep thinking I should repot the Meiwa and Tango, since they are notably unhappy as compared to my other citrus. I have some very sad photos of my Meiwa a few years ago in a different pot, green and thriving. I'm wondering if I erred in my mix when I transplanted these two (as well as the Page).

[poncirsguy]

Add a Table spoon of vinegar to a gallon of fertilizer water to lower PH.

[Millet]

Poncirusguy's suggestion can certainly be helpful, especially under higher pH conditions. Growers use various acid solutions to correct the pH of the water that they use. Note, that vinegar is an organic acid, thus has a very short useful life span.  However, before doing anything, you need to know what your container's and water's pH is first.  For those who use rainwater, rainwater has a pH of about 5.6 (perfect for citrus) and is hence slightly acidic.  NOTE: pure water is neutral and has a pH of 7. In the case of rainwater, it absorbs carbon dioxide (an acidic oxide) from the air it passes through on the way down which lowers it's pH.    Happy Easter To All -- He is risen!  Millet

[poncirsguy]

Contact your water supplier and ask about the PH.  If is 7 or above add the Vinegar.  If it is 8 Add 2 tablespoons

[Vlad]

Do not rely on the information you get from the water supplier. I recently lived in a town that got its water from a number of wells. My town (supplier) provided the pH information once a year. I learned that at any given time, some wells were used but not others. Every time they switched wells, and also depending on the season, the pH of the water would change. So, I checked the pH of my water every month or so and found that it varied significantly.  I used a cheap pH test kit for aquaria and pH strips used in the laboratory. The pH strips were more accurate and easier to use. This is what I used: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0786BHM4C/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[lemons4us]

Thanks Vlad. I live in Seattle and according to our public utility it's between 7.5-8.5.
I ordered very similar strips from Amazon and from what I can tell the water from our tap is about 7.
I also flushed the trees with water, let them drain for an hour+ and then watered them with distilled water and tested the pH of that.
Based on the strip, it looked like the pH was 6.

I found some photos I took of the Tango a couple years ago and the leaves were much bigger and a nice dark green. Clearly, I am not going in a good direction! I re-potted the Meiwa last week in a new 5-1-1 mix and a more tapered pot - it's soil was pretty soggy, and I think I may have used pumice in it's mix when I potted it a couple years ago. I will repot the Tango when my Repti-bark arrives. I've been using Foliage Pro, but maybe not enough? I also have Jack's Citrus fertilizer and thought I might try that. I also have been adding vinegar to my water when I water them, but then was worried their mix was too acidic. If only citrus had words!

[Millet]

Lemons4us, both Foliage Pro and Jacks 25-5-15 W/minors are both good fertilizers.  In my opinion, nothing presently on the market at this time is better then Jacks 25-5-15 for container citrus trees.  It has the perfect 5-1-3 nutrient ratio. For a use rate of 250 PPM Nitrogen use 1 slightly rounded teaspoon per gallon.  The best to you and this tree.

[lemons4us]

Thank you Millet. I value your expertise and would like to try Jack's - the fertilizer, I have is this - what do you think?



I looked online for the 25-5-15, but only found 25# bags. Do you know where I could get a (much) smaller amount? Even if I live to 100, I wouldn't use 25lbs for my 12 semi-dwarf trees!

If 25-5-15 isn't an option, would you recommend this 20-10-20 over FoliagePro?
Due to various life changes, my trees have been a bit neglected for a couple years (!) and I'm now recommitting to their care - and the pleasure they provide me

Thanks in advance.

[Millet]

Lemon4us,  sorry to tell you but Jack's 25-5-15 only comes in a 25-lb. bag.  Between the Jack's 20-10-20, and Foliage Pro, I  would use the Foliage Pro.  Remember Citrus are heavy feeders and require  more nutrition the most plants. 

[brian]

Ill send you a ziplock baggie full, PM me your address

EDIT - it occurs to me that I don't know how to ship anything if USPS offices closed?  might have to wait, I don't have a printer to print labels

[Millet]

brian,  both the USPS & UPS are considered  essential business and remain open.  Nice guy for helping out Lemon4us.

[lemons4us]

Brian, you are truly a hero member - thank you! Sending you a PM and my gratitude!!

[brian]

Ah yes... I guess even the USPS offices must be open.  Thanks