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Messages - HIfarm

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Tropical Fruit Buy, Sell & Trade / Re: Grafted atemoya in hawaii
« on: November 10, 2017, 12:26:27 PM »
Have you checked Frankie's on Oahu?  Last I checked with them, they did not seem to be grafting Annonas anymore but worth checking with them.  Kauai nursery has atemoya trees listed (; I have never ordered from them but when I checked a couple of years back, they will ship.  David Frenz at Birds n' Buds in Hilo (808-987-6455) may be worth a try but I doubt that he ships.  Chances are, you will only find oe or two clones at any of these nurseries, not the variety that you see discussed on this group.

If you know how to graft & want to grow up some rootstocks, I believe that Oscar at Fruitlovers has scions available.


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Rauls's illama (annona diversifolia) seeds
« on: November 01, 2017, 06:18:19 PM »
Raul's illama (annona diversifolia) seeds cracking open, one week after 24hr soak in GA3.

What concentration of GA3 did you use?


I was in Bali in June of 2016.  I was looking for salak but hoped I might also find wani stragglers.  It turned out the season ended about about two months prior.   We discussed fruit with some of the hotel staff in Bali.  When we were talking to some waitresses & asked about wani, they just about swooned -- obviously both were very fond of the fruit.  One of these waitresses was from Java, either the Solo or Jogja area, don't recall which.  She said they did not have wani on Java (or at least that part of Java?).  M. caesia is well documented from Java so perhaps they just don't have the white fleshed wani form of caesia?

There are several forms of wani.  I believe I posted a link to a paper earlier in the library section.

I visited Medan many years ago (probably about 30?).  I don't recall a lot of fruit but it may have been when I visited.  Be aware you are getting very close to Aceh province.  Muslims in that area (Aceh) are especially devout so it may be a good idea to brush up on proper etiquette if visiting that area so as not to unintentionally offend anyone.  People were pretty friendly there years ago.



John , you are absolutely right , I got seeds of several varieties from all over the Ilama growing areas in Mexico . Unless you have all the time in your life , GA is the only way to go , I had 100% germination on all in 2 weeks . Some were about 3 weeks in the mail ..didn't make a difference . Actually I am gonna do a lot of test with GA on other seeds that take more than one month to sprout .

Did you scarify the seedcoat in any way or just GA treat?  Do you recall what concentration of GA you used & for how long?  It would be good to compare your methods with others reported here.


Are you suicidal or running away from your wife....LOL...For no amount of money I would go over-there and traveling in a bus at night !!! You have no fear man . Good luck , I'll keep the GA3 ready ....

It took two years to sprout the seeds of annona diversifolia cv. white without Gibberellic acid. Really tough seeds, two years underground without demage.!

2yrs for the seed to sprout?  What if you nip it a bit so that it can absorb water , would that speed up the process?

Try using some sand paper on the coat and ga3 with around 50ppm to 200ppm.

I would not try these without the GA.  I got a couple of lots 2-3 years back from Luc & Raul.  At the time, there was talk about scarifying & I think Adam had suggested trying to remove the seed coat.  I managed to remove 1/2 the seed coat from the seeds without any apparent damage to the seed.  I think even with this course of action, only one germinated (& I lost it anyway).  So, it is not a simple matter of water getting to the seed.  Try the GA.


Bear in mind, you are asking about a species, not a clone, so impressions about quality could vary quite a bit.  I suspect that the ones from Fairchild are seedlings so probably best if you can get advice from someone who has fruited trees from their same seed source.  If you think about it, what kind of responses would you get if you asked if asked questions about Mangifera indica, not specific clones?

It has probably been 2 or 3 years since I have had kuini.  The ones I tried did not seem to have objectionable fiber.  They are highly fragrant (some call them durian mango but the smell is nothing like durian, just very strong).  I think the fragrance is supposedly linked a good deal to the skin.  I cut up the ones we had & put them in the frig to minimize the odor.  My wife liked them & did not comment on the odor when eating them but always asked when she opened the frig, "what is that smell"?  The flavor was not exactly the same as mango but, if you had to compare it to something, mango certainly comes to mind.

I believe that kuini is a bit more tropical than mango so it may be more inconsistent there -- better for someone else to comment on that.  I have been trying to train mine to stay compact (~12' height limit) but it is too early to say if that will be successful.  I am skeptical that they would do well as a potted plant.  They are supposed to be very resistant to anthracnose.  I have heard that they are self-fruitful but I don't know for sure.

One thing you will notice with kuini (& also some other Mangifera species) -- new growth is a beautiful blood red color, very showy.


I would make fencing my first priority, otherwise, the pigs can wipe out a lot of trees fast.  I assume you are probably along Hamakua, so you probably have plenty of pigs to deal with, especially if there are any active mac farms near you.  You would be amazed at the amount of damage a few pigs can do in a night -- you'd swear someone was out there with a tractor & plow.  If the land is undisturbed, the pigs do not tend to bother it that much.  However, if you cut or clear some land or start a compost pile or mulch plants, pigs love to root around there.

I would suggest hogwiring whatever you plan on planting (you don't need to do it all now).  Standard practice here is to also run a strand of barb wire along the bottom to discourage the pigs from digging under.  If you run the standard hogwire, you will find that baby pigs go through it readily and can still cause some damage.  As some added advice, if you plan on fencing along a pali, put your fence line a good distance back from it.  The pigs will put in a pig highway along your fenceline &, if you are too close to the pali, the soil will erode & you will have to be replacing that section of fence.

Get quotes & references for the fencing.  Prices vary ENORMOUSLY here & it is not an indication of quality of the job or materials.  If you are interested, shoot me an email & I can give you the contact info for the guy I used.  He does a lot of ranches here.  I got a tighter hog wire (no piglets getting through) with an aluminum / zinc coating that is superior to conventional galvanizing for less than most other bids (using conventional materials).


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Breeding/selecting with dioecious plants
« on: August 18, 2017, 01:00:21 PM »
This sounds like an interesting project you are undertaking.  However, going with a dioecious species will make it more challenging and probably more frustrating.  Peter's advice on male flowering is good and it will be one of the few attributes you will be able to see on the male trees (you won't know if they have genes for good fruit flavor, good fruit size, freestone, etc).

A grower here did similar work for peach palm.  He raised out the seedlings, graded them A to C with A being superior fruit, B being acceptable, and C being inferior fruit.  He then would cull out all C trees.  It was sort of "passive selective breeding".  He would then take the seed from the select palms & plant out a new grove; I think he did this 2 or 3 times to select for his desired traits.  He was able to develop peach palm with nice flavor, good oil content, and a thinner, more palatable peel (as well as being spineless).  Since you are working with a dioecious species, I think your work will be a lot more challenging.

Good luck, keep us posted!


That stinky smell and bad taste was something specifically selected out when the solo papayas were developed. This was done at least 50 years ago? And people still haven't caught on?  :o I don't know anybody that doesn't like them here or that complains about their smell. Often they are just ignored just because they are so super common here. It's kind of like bananas, great fruit, but so many of them around people forget to appreciate them.

Regarding being common & unappreciated, I kind of think the worst period here is behind us -- I remember a few years ago, papaya going as low as 6 / $1; now I think ~2/$1 is more the going rate so I think the glut is subsiding.  Most of the fruit here is apparently from nice clones.  However, most vendors do not treat them well & you often end up with bruises turning to mush before the rest of the fruit is anywhere near ripe.  (I still see pick-ups with the bed filled with loose papaya and 2 or 3 guys laying on top of the load of fruit.  Nice way to treat your produce.)  That kind of experience has certainly decreased my enthusiasm for papaya so I tend to buy them a lot less often.

Hopefully, Mike T will chime in on this.  As I recall one of his descriptors he uses for flavor/aroma in some papaya is "puke"  -- yum.  Just call me biased but that is not a characteristic I am fond of.  (Not typically encountered in any of the main Hawaiian types, by the way.)


I don't recall Montoso having Catui.  I have heard that it is possible to get reasonable (but low) germination from green (unroasted) coffee beans.  If you do a search on line you will find articles about this.  If you then look for sellers of green beans, you will find quite a variety of things available.


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Dwarf mulchi production
« on: July 30, 2017, 06:08:58 PM »
Nice, Peter, thanks for posting.  How tall is the tree in the pic?  How old was it when it started fruiting at .5 m?


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Maesobotrya barteri
« on: July 12, 2017, 02:39:00 PM »
I have tried this one but the end result was the same for all -- they all eventually died.  I got very good germination (I'm thinking I had about 7 germinate, if I recall correctly) but I gradually lost them all after maybe 1 1/2 yrs.   I did get some that had multiple leaves & started to look like a little tree but would take a turn for the worst.   It sounds like an interesting fruit so I think I will try them again at some point. 

I would suspect you may have them too damp if you are keeping the seedling in a baggy.  I think I may have lost some to fungal problems.  The baggy may not be a bad idea but I would make sure the baggy is large enough that the seedling is not in direct contact to it and perhaps punch a few small holes in the bag so that it can keep it humid but not too humid.


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: spacing a grove
« on: July 12, 2017, 02:28:46 PM »
I've gone with 25' spacing on my rows (to allow room for equipment) with no columns, per se.  I have just varied the spacing depending upon the type of trees, anything from about 15' for smaller trees up to 30' or so for larger trees (like durian).  I will be interplanting understory trees later, once the main trees get some more size on them.  My rows parallel the road, so run more or less east-west.  I have put in some windbreak but with my rows arranged this way, the prevailing winds should be more or less parallel with the rows so I am hoping to minimize wind damage.  This orientation should also give good sun exposure.  Not sure if all this makes sens but it is what I decided to go with.

My mangoes actually have some tighter spacing as my plan is to try to keep them trained as smaller trees.


I suspect most named variety are probably hermaphrodites.  I recall hearing that female trees will also fruit on their own, but generally producing seedless fruit -- not sure if this is true.  If true, the main problem would be if you have a seedling that is a male tree.


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Annona paludosa
« on: July 09, 2017, 01:08:00 PM »
Anyone fruit this yet?  Just wondering how you know when fruits are ripe on this one.  I assume they perhaps start to yellow a bit?  It looks like they get to about the size of a large strawberry or perhaps a bit larger.  Since it is often compared to a small soursop, I assume you pick when still a bit under-ripe & allow to ripen on the countertop?
Any advice is welcomed.


Citrus General Discussion / Re: Kumquats
« on: July 01, 2017, 12:27:37 PM »
I've got a friend who makes an excellent kumquat marmalade.  I haven't tried it with vanilla ice cream but it should be great.


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Reptonia muscatencesea
« on: June 16, 2017, 02:48:16 PM »
Thanks for posting, Moh'd.  I had never heard of this one so your post inspired me to research it some more.  I was finding very little on this species.  However, I found listings for Reptonia mascatensis, occurring in the same area so I wonder if the species name may have been a typo.  Looks like this one has a lot of synonyms.
It sounds like an interesting fruit.  The pic in the bowl almost looks like a bowl of blueberries.  Keep us posted if you ever have a chance to try this one.


Hi Roshan,

These guys are a couple of missionaries & have started a few projects since they have now been there for decades.  If you search for Paul Noren or for Roy Danforth, you should be able to find some articles on the internet.  ECHO used to also carry one or more books they wrote:


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: ID and update
« on: June 06, 2017, 03:25:32 PM »
The fruit you forgot the name of looks like stinking toe, Hymenaea courbaril.


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Think Ive been had.
« on: June 06, 2017, 01:54:01 AM »
I think it isn't a scientifically valid species anyway and seeds should look like the standard white.Even tetramera seeds look the same and that probably isn't a valid species also. They are not seeds in that genus but they look sorta familiar.Maybe not Couepia unless it is a species I haven't seen the seeds of. Lecythis maybe.

Doesn't look like Lecythis I have seen.

Well this is really embarrassing, I took no special steps with them, threw them in regular dirt in 2 1/2" nursery cells and put them under the bench in my greenhouse, watered with rainwater.  I think nearly all germinated & have been growing ok.  They are still in these shady conditions & still in the nursery cells (as them seem to be growing very slowly).  I planned on potting them up to some nursery bags soon to get some more size on them prior to planting out.  I expect I will probably see massive losses as soon as I touch them now...


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Edgar's Baby DF
« on: June 03, 2017, 04:14:12 PM »
I have seen this clone popping up a few places -- I suspect it has been tissue cultured.

Tropical Fruit Buy, Sell & Trade / Re: Mangifera altissima seeds.
« on: June 03, 2017, 11:41:11 AM »
Maybe I am missing something here, but why is Chandramohan needing to pay for shipping again when he did nothing wrong?

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Cherapu update
« on: May 15, 2017, 01:43:26 PM »
Yes, pretty much everything I have is in the ground.  Cherapu started producing for us last year and it seems to produce twice a year here.  This time it is really loading up.
One problem that has been talked about before are the large numbers of seedling males.  In the photo you can see my solution.  After cutting off fairly low the male tree sent out several new sprouts.  I cleft grafted on to the two best.  The seedlings are so slow but the top worked cherapu is developing very fast.

Thanks for posting about this, and about topworking the trees (I plan on doing the same, as necessary, with my dioiecious trees).  Have you tried topworking the trees by using scions directly to the trunk, or did you just assume a better success rate by using the new shoots, where you would have a thicker cambium layer to work with?

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