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Messages - TheWaterbug

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26
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: How long from banana seedling to fruit in So. California?
« on: October 10, 2019, 04:35:11 PM »
Quote from: BestDay on October 09, 2019, 01:04:28 AM
As far as I know the real Blue Java isn’t being tissue cultured right now. I could be wrong but I believe all online tissue cultured Ice Cream banana plants are actually Namwa.


You could be right. In the Q&A section of the amazon page where I bought these plants, a customers asks, "Are these true Blue Java plants?" and the seller's official answer is "No."


So if they're Namwa, how good is Namwa? I just want a banana that tastes like ice cream, regardless of what it's called!

27
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: How long from banana seedling to fruit in So. California?
« on: October 08, 2019, 07:01:22 PM »
Wow! Great info!


How deep do the roots go? Or are they normally shallow and wide?

28
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: How long from banana seedling to fruit in So. California?
« on: October 08, 2019, 02:29:34 PM »
And here they are, about 3 weeks after purchase and potting:






Each of them has one new leaf!

29
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: How long from banana seedling to fruit in So. California?
« on: October 08, 2019, 02:12:45 PM »
Thanks for all the feedback. These are supposedly Blue Java/Ice Cream Bananas, purchased via amazon from Hello Organics.


If they're from tissue culture then I have more confidence in their pedigree.


I purchased these because TopTropicals didn't have any Blue Java in stock, and then now that I have these, I just received an email that TT now has 3 gallon plants in stock.  ::)


I'll put these in the ground as soon as they grow a rootball, probably in the Spring after it's warmed up around here. This is probably the worst time of the year to buy and plant tropicals in Los Angeles! We're warm throughout the rest of the year, with spring/fall temps reaching into the 80s and summers reaching into the 90s.


I put a Dwarf Cavendish in a pot 5 years ago, and for the first 4 years it didn't do much. It grew from a 1' tall to about 5' tall, but it never flowered. Then I put it in the ground, and it took off. Well, sort of. The 1' pup that was next to the main plant starting growing like crazy, and quickly outgrew the main stem. Then the main stem got eaten by goats.  ::) .


That pup is now the main stem, and the plant is about 6' tall, where the newest leaves separate, and the top leaf is going straight upwards, to about 9'. I'm hoping it flowers this year.


I need to prep a new bed, away from the goats, for these Blue Javas. If those goats are still here after my Dwarf Cavendish fruits and dies, I may transplant that corm over to the new bed as well. I also have a ~3' plant of unknown variety that was given to me by a friend. It was cut off from the main plant, with no roots, so I have that in a pot as well, until it gets somewhat established. It just unfurled its first new leaf, so I'm thinking it's going to make it.


So, long story short, all my bananas will soon be in the ground, and I'm hoping I get some fruit, soon!

30
Tropical Fruit Discussion / How long from banana seedling to fruit in So. California?
« on: October 07, 2019, 02:23:27 PM »
I should put "seedling" in quotes because I think these were propagated by tissue culture:





But in any case, they're about 6-8" tall right now, after adding a leaf since this photo was taken.

They started without any root ball to speak of. They came in those little starter cups that are ~1" square x ~3" deep, and tapered towards the bottom. I was amazed that that much plant could grow in that little soil.

So there's no corm to speak of, yet.

I'm also not sure when I should put these in the ground. They seem a bit tender right now, although they've been pretty happy being outside for the last 10 days. Weather is in the low- to mid-70s these days, but it will get colder and windier as Fall marches on. It never freezes here in Los Angeles, and the coldest nights go down to the low 50s.


I put two larger banana plants in the ground in the Fall 2 years ago, and they didn't make it.

31
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Water droplets on my banana seedling leaves!?!?
« on: September 25, 2019, 02:25:55 PM »
Awesome info! Thanks!


I think I can then conclude that, if I have guttatation in the mornings, I don't need to water them yet.

32
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Water droplets on my banana seedling leaves!?!?
« on: September 23, 2019, 06:05:43 PM »
I recently received a 4-pack of Ice Cream Banana plants from Hello Organics/amazon. They were in tiny little soil plugs (I think they're grown from tissue culture), so I put them in medium pots to get them established on my window sill. They seem to have taken well to the transplanting over the last week. My 4-pack was actually a 5-pack because one of the little plugs actually had two plants, and both appear to be viable:


Here's the odd thing. Every morning when I come out to the kitchen to make my coffee, I see little droplets of water on the ends of the leaves:







It's not dew, because these plants are indoors, and my indoor humidity is quite low.


Can I assume that this is a good sign, that they're actively taking up water?

33
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Poor results starting Ataulfo seeds :-(
« on: March 03, 2019, 02:00:22 AM »
About 2 months ago I bought a box of Ataulfo mangoes from my local 99 Ranch market for the specific purpose of planting their seeds and grafting onto them later. I much prefer the Indian style mangoes, but I've been told that Manila rootstocks work better in California.

I put more than a dozen into various pots and/or jars of water, on my counter on a heat mat, outside in the open, and outside in a little greenhouse, and after 2 months I have only two surviving seedlings, both doubles. One of them has a 4" primary that looks pretty good, but its fraternal twin has only one leaf:






The second seedling is a pair currently less than an inch tall, but otherwise looks pretty good (I'll post a photo tomorrow, when it's light).

The other 10+ seeds either failed to come up at all, or else sent up a shoot that stalled or died. Here's what those look like:



I had 4-5 of these come up with two tiny leaflets that never grew, and then the whole thing withered, turned black, and died.

I tossed out all of these dead ones today, and most of them had 4-5" of roots going down, and when I broke the seeds apart I could often see shoots with leaves curled up inside.

Is this a common problem with polyembryonic seeds? Or did I not wait long enough? Or am I just doing this at the wrong time of year? Or am I doing something else wrong?


I put another 8 seeds in the dirt today . . . .

34
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Best mango variety.
« on: December 07, 2018, 01:19:30 PM »
Quote from: Johnny Eat Fruit on December 05, 2018, 07:47:07 PM
Best mango Variety? 

I will only respond to growth and in that regard, Coconut Cream is Number 1 at my location. My Grafted two-year-old tree is doing very well. (see Photo)

In two years it has outgrown other mango cultivars here in Calif. I do not know why but in our mild climate CC does well indeed.


Looks amazing! I'm not too far from you. What root stock is that CC on, and from where did you get it? Thanks!

35
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Gopher Gold
« on: December 07, 2018, 01:17:25 PM »
I use Victor Black Box traps, and they work very, very well.


I once set Trap #1 and then Trap #2, and then turned around to see that the wire on Trap #1 was up. "I must have forgotten to set it," thought I.


Nope! I'd caught a gopher within 5 minutes of setting the trap. He was still warm when I removed him.  :o


The only bad part about the Victor Black Box is that, sometimes, the gopher bites down on the trigger wire and then goes into rigor mortis. You have to literally pry its jaws apart to get it off the trap.


The first time I had to do this I thought, "If this guy comes back to life in my hands I'm going to soil myself!"  ;D


Another problem with most reusable traps is that you have to check them pretty much every day, or else your "prizes" will start to rot or get eaten in the traps.


What's grosser than removing a gopher from a trap? Removing half a gopher from a trap.  :o

36
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Where to buy Mango Trees for Los Angeles?
« on: October 16, 2018, 08:11:59 PM »
Quote from: Samu on September 26, 2018, 03:37:59 PM
Currently, JF is offering mango trees for sale with "local" pick up.
See this post at Buy/Sell:
http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=29522.0

I am sure, JF is not using Turpentine rootstock, hope you are
aware of it's disadvantages of growing this Turpentine rootstock
mango in California...as many members have already discussed
here in this forum.


So I had a very good visit with JF last last weekend, and I bought a LZ and a ST. I had time to put the LZ in the dirt this last Sunday:








It's been 48 hours since transplanting, and I don't see any visible signs of stress, so I think I succeeded in not killing it. We'll know more in a month.


The ST will go in next Sunday, I hope!


JF confirmed to me that both trees are on Ataulfo/Manila/Philippine (?) rootstock, and he showed me a tree with Florida (Turpentine?) rootstock that's done nothing despite being in his yard for four years. It looks a lot like my Keitt from PoG that's done nothing in 4 years. Nothing against PoG, because the tree looked great when I received it, but apparently that rootstock just doesn't work in my area.


I've got a bunch of Ataulfo seeds in some pots right now, to see if I can get those going. If I can, I may attempt some grafting later on. How long does it usually take a seedling to get to graftable size?

37
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: pineapple top planting
« on: October 11, 2018, 11:18:05 AM »
Quote from: TheWaterbug on September 27, 2018, 05:35:24 PM
A damaged crown won't grow a pineapple from its center whorl . . .


And sometimes a crown will surprise you! I brought 3 Maui Gold pineapples back from Maui (in the USDA-approved tourist gift box), but one of the crowns looked terrible. The guy who packed the box just crushed it to get it into the box  >:( . The center whorl looked dead, with no visible leaflets emerging, but I planted it anyway:




8 weeks later, and lookie here!





So don't give up on them!

38
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: What quality pineapple will a 2nd generation top produce?
« on: October 11, 2018, 11:11:36 AM »
Quote from: bbates123 on September 29, 2018, 08:56:51 AM
Will the fruit keep getting smaller and smaller the more you re-plant successive generations of tops?

No. As mentioned by others, every time you plant a crown you "reset" the clock. But you also reset it to zero, and crowns take a long time to fruit.

Did your mother plant grow any suckers or slips? Those will fruit much faster than will a crown.

I'm still lacking data on whether a sucker or slip [growing off the mother plant] will grow a fruit as big as its mother plant, and whether it's better to twist off an re-plant suckers and slips, or whether to just let them grow in place. I have a mother plant growing two large side-suckers right now; I'm tempted to run a little science experiment to see how they do.

39
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: pineapple top planting
« on: September 27, 2018, 05:35:24 PM »
Quote from: Evildeadguy on September 27, 2018, 05:16:50 PM
This has nothing to do with getting one to root....it has to do with a pineapple plant meaning the  crown being damaged to the point it wont grow a pineapple but if that crown is left to keep growing it will end up growing suckers and from that you can grow a pineapple


I think that's true as written, but slightly misleading. A damaged crown won't grow a pineapple from its center whorl, but if it roots, one or more suckers will emerge from the side. If they're left to grow, a pineapple will emerge from one of them. You don't have to pinch them off and re-plant them. You can just let one of them grow from the side of the damaged crown.


As the sucker grows bigger and bigger the damaged crown will whither away, and after a year it will look like the original crown never existed. I have grown at least 2 pineapples this way.


So the net result is that you can plant a damaged crown and get a pineapple, eventually. But it will take longer than with an undamaged crown.

40
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Vegetative propagation from fruit tissue?
« on: September 27, 2018, 05:04:39 PM »
Quote from: lebmung on September 27, 2018, 03:17:17 PM
Your aspirations are possible but you lack the know-how.


Oh, I know that I don't know. I'm just wondering what's possible, and hoping that someone else can actually do it ;-)

41
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Vegetative propagation from fruit tissue?
« on: September 27, 2018, 01:15:28 PM »
Quote from: lebmung on September 26, 2018, 04:35:41 PM
You picked the hardest to clone. Mangoes are not being TC.
Ah, that's a shame. I will have to wait for science to catch up to my aspirations. Then again, genetic testing was once prohibitively expensive, and now you can get it done for $99, or $68 if you're a dog.


What about coconuts?


On a related note, are there any good ways to get sanitized, viable, culturable material from outside the U.S. back into the U.S. without endangering U.S. agriculture and without violating U.S. import regulations? e.g. if I eat the world's greatest specimen of Fruit X in Thailand, are there any legal options for bringing tissue back for cloning?

42
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Yet Another "ID This Mango" Thread
« on: September 26, 2018, 02:46:24 PM »
Should we make a permanent thread for Mango IDs?

Anyway, I "discovered" this productive mango tree very near my home in Los Angeles:









The present owners of the house (who, apparently, have been the victims of mango theft in the past, a hanging crime in most countries) do not know the origin of the tree or the cultivar.

Is there anything in those photos that is definitive or suggestive? Or does it just look like any of 100 different varieties?

I'm most interested because it's growing vigorously and fruiting well in an environment that is pretty much exactly like mine. They're less than 2 crow-flying miles from my yard.

43
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Where to buy Mango Trees for Los Angeles?
« on: September 26, 2018, 02:26:57 PM »
I'd like to buy a few varieties, perhaps Sweet Tart, Lemon Zest, and 2-3 others. I'm not thrilled with paying $$$$$ for shipping, but I'll do that if it's the best way to get a good tree. But I'd prefer to pick up locally so I can talk to the nursery about best varieties and save on shipping.


I know the tree landscape changes frequently, so who has good trees for sale for shipment to or pickup in Los Angeles?


Any other varieties to recommend or not recommend for Los Angeles?


Thanks!

44
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Vegetative propagation from fruit tissue?
« on: September 26, 2018, 01:33:30 PM »
Hmmm. I was thinking about this more generically, for cases where we buy a fruit from a market, and love it, and want to clone it, but the variety is either unknown, or unavailable as a plant.


Mangos imported from India would be my first candidate.

45
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: pineapple top planting
« on: September 25, 2018, 05:06:36 PM »
Quote from: mike rule on June 29, 2018, 06:57:31 AM
If the center leaves are easily pulled out just shows that the pineapple is ready to eat.

I haven't observed any relationship at all between center leaf health and fruit quality. For pineapples I grow myself I let them ripen on the plant until the entire fruit has changed color. They're wonderful to eat, and the center leaves are firmly anchored in the whorl.

I've purchased pineapples from the store with loose center leaves, and some of those have been literally too acidic to eat.

I'm of the opinion that center leaf health is a function of time in storage and quality of storage conditions, rather than of fruit ripeness.

But, further to the OP's actual question, center leaf health is 100% correlated (in my experience) with rootability. Fresh crowns with bright, firm leaves root nearly 100% of the time on my counter. Old crowns with loose leaves or rotting whorls root infrequently, and with less vigor. And for those that do, the new leaves come out the side, which means far longer to fruiting. Sometimes you don't have a choice, such as with a hard-to-obtain variety. But when you do have a choice, choose the freshest crowns for propagation.

46
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Pineapples--The Half Pot Experiment
« on: September 25, 2018, 04:57:46 PM »
Quote from: TheWaterbug on September 08, 2017, 05:57:11 PM
Check back in 2 years to see how this goes!
Here's an intermediate update at the 1-year mark (photos were taken on Sep. 8th, almost exactly a year after planting):










n=2, and YMMV, but the two plants that are half-potted in black plastic are definitely larger than the ones fully-potted in the terra cotta.

I'm going to adopt this as my new default method of planting. The black plastic pots are only $0.10 more than the terra cotta ones, have a larger full volume (if you use it), and are much lighter to schlepp around.

If I ever want to use these plants for decorative purposes I could always just pull them out and re-pot them in terra cotta during the fruiting phase.

47
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Are pineapples really this heavy feeders?
« on: September 25, 2018, 04:09:47 PM »
Quote from: Mark in Texas on March 08, 2018, 08:00:51 AM
Having two in a pot doubles your root mass too.


Ah, I just noticed your comment, 6 months after you posted it!


The center is the mother plant from which I harvested a fruit a couple of months prior. You can see the remains of the peduncle, dying away in the center. That entire plant will eventually die away if I don't prune it away first.


To the right is a ground sucker that I let grow.


So it's really only one plant, even though it looks like two at present.


I have another harvested plant that I need to prune this weekend or next, and I'll try to remember to take some photos of the root system.

48
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Vegetative propagation from fruit tissue?
« on: September 25, 2018, 02:44:39 PM »
Quote from: JandJPalms on September 23, 2018, 06:55:00 PM
I did some tissue culture work as part of my Masters degree project (selected loblolly pine cultivars).  I'm surprised to see a kit offered for general use, as what struck me the most about tissue culture production is the absolute need for a sterile environment. It is easiest to keep things sterile in a laboratory, where you can work under dust removing hoods and keep an alcohol flame burning to sterilize your cutting tools.  Your agar medium starts out sterile but it's so easy to introduce unwanted organisms to it as you transfer your plant tissues.  I had issues with keeping sterile even in a lab - I can't imagine trying to do it at my house.  That said, I must say I am intrigued by the kit for sale and might even buy one!  :-)


I'm getting excited just reading about this  ;) .


So what types of fruit tissues could be used for starting a tissue culture?

49
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: How much better are these 'flavorbomb' mangos than those from grocery store?
« on: September 23, 2018, 03:46:38 PM »

Quote from: savemejebus on September 18, 2018, 05:38:16 PM
Quote from: Future on September 18, 2018, 05:16:04 PM
No words will ever adequately describe sex to a virgin.
sure there is. sex is like a properly ripened lemon zest


 ;D ;D ;D


I have never had a lemon zest.  :( :( :(

Quote from: zands on September 18, 2018, 06:10:46 PM

Forget the flavor bomb mangoes. Even the old Florida type mangoes from backyards taste 200% better than store bought. Same must apply to backyard "grown from seed" in California and the thousands of mystery Manila mango trees in the LA region......Imported mangoes are simply picked under ripe (like pears apples etc) and the hope is that by the time it gets to the consumer it is acceptable.

You need a friend with a backyard mango tree. Someone came by today and we got 14 mangoes off my Keitt tree for him and family. Has five children.



Yes, this is true for so many fruits, not just mangoes. I listened to this episode of Gastropodcast for 40 minutes, and there was all this talk about different varieties of mangos, but not a single mention of ripeness at harvest time.


So your friend harvested one for each of his kids and 9 for himself? LOL! He must really love those children to give them each one.

50
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Vegetative propagation from fruit tissue?
« on: September 23, 2018, 02:06:34 PM »
Quote from: pineislander on September 16, 2018, 09:51:23 PM
https://www.apsnet.org/edcenter/K-12/TeachersGuide/PlantBiotechnology/Pages/Activity5.aspx



Very interesting! Amazon has this kit for the reasonable price of $64, but there are zero reviews.


Quote from: lebmung on September 17, 2018, 04:43:51 PM

The best tissue and simplest it's meristem which contains undifferentiated cells.
Virtually all parts of the plant can be used to cloning via callus induction. Even from a single viable cell, but this requires expensive equipment and special techniques. Each plant has a different need and requires chemicals to be used.

For instance it's possible to take a lime from store and grow callus from it, then shoots and finally root the shoots. Or use the shoots and micrograft them to a rootstock.



Very very interesting. So this can be done with lime skin? Or which part of a purchased lime? So would this be possible from a mango skin or piece of stem?


Who here has experience doing tissue culture? Thanks!

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