Are there any classic fruit trees that are better than newer varieties?

[Das Bhut]

For example:

mango: maha chanok VS any of the new Zills.
jackfruit: black gold/NS1/J-#/mai-# VS any of the new fairchild/PIN varietes that just came out

and whatever else has gotten more breeding done lately... are there any must-have classic trees or are all the newer types just improved versions?

[bsbullie]

Your comparisons are not that great.  Try comparing Haden, Hatcher, Kent and other "old classic" varieties to newer ones (it is not a new variety however I would place Mahachanok in the newer category as it has not been available in the United States for that long).  There are also intermediate varieties,  those that are not 100 years old but in between.

With the jackfruit,  the Mais are relatively newer along with Bangkok Lemon,  Excalibur Gold and Red,  a new soon to be released red which may be the best red hands down.  Red Morning/Daeng Suria is a classic variety that is outstanding.  I wont comment on the newer PIN/Fairchild varieties because i dont think they are amongst the best by any means.

To respond to yoyr question, i feel the reason it seems many of the newer "named" varieties of their respective types of fruitscare better as that is what the "breeders" are trying to do, improve on what is available.  What would be the piint in releasing what you knew was average or inferior?

[Jani]

Difficult question, which will only yield subjective answers, if any.

I'd say this though..I find a proper Julie Mango beats almost all of the newer hyped varieties. And from what I have read it appears quite a bit of today's varieties can directly or indirectly trace their lineage to Julie, if accurate, for me it's a testament to the awesomeness of Julie.

Awesome mango and tree, and growing with no fungal or disease issues for me in humid south Florida. Actually surprisingly (based on all I have read about how it fares in S. Fl) it has the least fungal/pest/disease issues of all my mango trees (graham, glenn, pickering, bombay, ndm, maha, mallika and imam passand).

Maybe I'm strange but I'm not that interested in getting the newer (zills) stuff, I'd rather get more of the classic types..I find the names of the newer varieties pretty cheesy. Maybe if I had more space I'd try to get everything, but with limited space I tend towards More 'classic' varieties.

[ClayMango]

Carrie and Edward seem to have quite a few loyal followers.

[bsbullie]

No offense to anyone but I find the Julie on the bottom of the  list, giving Carrie a run for its money in terms of if those were the only available varieties,  i would probably not like mangoes.

[ClayMango]

No offense to anyone but I find the Julie on the bottom of the  list, giving Carrie a run for its money in terms of if those were the only available varieties,  i would probably not like mangoes.

Bullie would probablyeat a Tommy Atkins before a Carrie, but if you Read the forums, it seems like a love or hate Mango, and many people here swear by it's greatness... To me, it reminded me of a highly concentrated Alphonso being much sweeter, better acidity, and a shit tons more of spicyness.... Carrie>Alphonso in a thousand matchups.

[jbaqai]

one home grown mango that i was lucky enough to get was Pickering
and for me its a must have tree. size production and taste.

Keitt , will be a good option too.   

[HMHausman]

The eating quality of a perfectly ripened Julie or Carrie would be considered excellent, in my experience, with most mango lovers. There will be some, who do not care for the flavor, but in general either mango could, on a perfect day and depending on the competition, take top honors at a respectable tasting table.  Are these my personal favorites? No.  Are they difficult here in South Florida to get that perfectly ripened fruit for comparison purposes? Yes, for me anyway.  If you are from the Caribbean and grew up with Julie as the best mango around are we ever going to convince you that there may better mangoes out there?  Probably not.

I have made the mistake to tell a Jamaican that East Indian was just too fibrous and wasn't worth the effort of growing it.  I am growing it, but pretty much only for sale and I was feeling a bit argumentative that day.  I might have just as well have been calling her mother some horrible name.  The reaction was just that strong.  So, as always, it will always come down to what mango flavor you most enjoy. Open minds should always be the mental outlook in the tasting world. You never know when your taste buds are going to be pleasantly surprised.

[fisherking73]

My favorite mango of all time is...........the one I find on the floor walking around the neighborhood LOL free, requires no watering or fertilizer, does not take up any space in my yard LOL

[Pancrazio]

Much of the original question depends on what you hope to maximize. I can't tell for tropical fruits. However, for temperate fruits, many of the old varieties are better of the new, not from a strict "taste" standpoint, but they optimize some other elements necessary in the old rural world: capability to produce regularly, capability to produce without any treatment, capability to recover from a late frost, capability to store fine for weeks/months. Many of these qualities aren't useful anymore (or even if useful, they have been made obsolete by fridges or pesticides) so older varieties may appear "lacking" from a certain point of view. However they maybe are just well adapted to a disappeared environment.

[nullzero]

There is a lot of really good old time Apple varieties I hear. A lot of them were ditched for various reasons (usually nothing to do with taste) mostly related to modern day agriculture industries needs in a tree.

[Cookie Monster]

carrie, edward, cogshall, cushman, fairchild, nam doc mai, ... there are a lot of stellar mangoes that were discovered before most of us were born.

It's not that the newer mangoes are better per se; it's just that there is now more variety.

I also think that flavor tends to roll in cycles as with fashion. Human nature is to become bored with the same thing, no matter how good it was initially perceived to be.

And, many tastes are acquired. The first time I had papaya, I didn't like it. After years of my wife forcing them on me, I've actually grown to enjoy and crave them. The first few years I ate mangoes with strong south east asian spice, I didn't like them. Now, that southeast asian spice is one of my favorite characteristics in a mango.

[Das Bhut]

Your comparisons are not that great.  Try comparing Haden, Hatcher, Kent and other "old classic" varieties to newer ones (it is not a new variety however I would place Mahachanok in the newer category as it has not been available in the United States for that long).  There are also intermediate varieties,  those that are not 100 years old but in between.

With the jackfruit,  the Mais are relatively newer along with Bangkok Lemon,  Excalibur Gold and Red,  a new soon to be released red which may be the best red hands down.  Red Morning/Daeng Suria is a classic variety that is outstanding.  I wont comment on the newer PIN/Fairchild varieties because i dont think they are amongst the best by any means.

To respond to yoyr question, i feel the reason it seems many of the newer "named" varieties of their respective types of fruitscare better as that is what the "breeders" are trying to do, improve on what is available.  What would be the piint in releasing what you knew was average or inferior?

The comparisons are lacking but I was really just trying to give examples. The point of this topic was just to fish for opinions, I didn't mean to limit it to just mangoes/jackfruit but I can't think of anything else besides maybe apples that are being actively developed.

[bangkok]

For me namdocmai-green is still the best mango ever. I have a whopper jakrapat (Yu-wen from taiwan) on the counter now and will eat it one of these days. There are more new taiwanese mangofruits on the market now but not for sale yet. Maybe next week they said so then i can compare.

For jackfruit phet raa chaa and thong prasert rule, don't know how old these variety's are. Daeng suria is nothing compared to those.

For papaya the papaya holland is head and shoulders above the rest. This is a new hybrid.

For roseapples the phet si rung is great but also the older tabtim chan is great when fully ripe. The new taiwanese still have to fruit and are not on the markets yet, can come any time now though.

Osteen is also a great mango and an old one. It has a little bit fibre though and the flesh is not supersoft, i really like them as well.

Apples are all bad these days, in Holland we get loads of new variety's but i can't be bothered with them. They are not selected for taste. Even roseapples are sweeter and taste better.

Mayongchid is bigger and better then maprang wan. Maprang wan is sweeter though but tastes like mango. Mayongchid has more sour tones like a mangosteen.

I ate Chanee durian yesterday, i liked it more then mongthong since it didn't have much garlic/onion flavour. No idea how old both variety's are but mongthong is the most sold in thailand.

Petch Pakchong is a better sugarapple then the older squamosa's, much bigger and less seed. Also a little harder flesh.

[Viking Guy]

Your comparisons are not that great.  Try comparing Haden, Hatcher, Kent and other "old classic" varieties to newer ones (it is not a new variety however I would place Mahachanok in the newer category as it has not been available in the United States for that long).  There are also intermediate varieties,  those that are not 100 years old but in between.

With the jackfruit,  the Mais are relatively newer along with Bangkok Lemon,  Excalibur Gold and Red,  a new soon to be released red which may be the best red hands down.  Red Morning/Daeng Suria is a classic variety that is outstanding.  I wont comment on the newer PIN/Fairchild varieties because i dont think they are amongst the best by any means.

To respond to yoyr question, i feel the reason it seems many of the newer "named" varieties of their respective types of fruitscare better as that is what the "breeders" are trying to do, improve on what is available.  What would be the piint in releasing what you knew was average or inferior?

Wait wait.... brakes on.

New red jackfruit?  Please tell more!