Author Topic: mycorrhizal inoculant  (Read 3347 times)

buddy roo

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mycorrhizal inoculant
« on: September 19, 2017, 01:44:12 PM »
Hi all, i have heard / read a lot on this however how do you know if what you buy is even alive i bought a bag of  "Mykos pure Mycorrhizal inoculant "in the spring and used it in my raised beds and some potted plants i also used it in my potting mix for my seedlings,the thing is when i dig in to these i see no signs of any growth , so 3 weeks ago i took 2 cups of very moist Alfalfa pellets along with 2 heaping tablespoons of inoculant  and i put it in a coffee can with a lid and a couple holes in it, i see NO GROWTH YET.so my question is how do you test this stuff when you buy it to know if it is alive or not ??         Regards       Patrick

figtreeaz

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Re: mycorrhizal inoculant
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2017, 03:35:21 PM »
Hi all, i have heard / read a lot on this however how do you know if what you buy is even alive i bought a bag of  "Mykos pure Mycorrhizal inoculant "in the spring and used it in my raised beds and some potted plants i also used it in my potting mix for my seedlings,the thing is when i dig in to these i see no signs of any growth , so 3 weeks ago i took 2 cups of very moist Alfalfa pellets along with 2 heaping tablespoons of inoculant  and i put it in a coffee can with a lid and a couple holes in it, i see NO GROWTH YET.so my question is how do you test this stuff when you buy it to know if it is alive or not ??         Regards       Patrick

Endomycorrhizal fungi are not visible to the naked eye, you need a microscope. Also the spores germinate in the presence of root exudates, no just one there own. They need to be in contact with living roots of a host species

John Travis

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Re: mycorrhizal inoculant
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2017, 09:25:36 AM »
Hi all, i have heard / read a lot on this however how do you know if what you buy is even alive i bought a bag of  "Mykos pure Mycorrhizal inoculant "in the spring and used it in my raised beds and some potted plants i also used it in my potting mix for my seedlings,the thing is when i dig in to these i see no signs of any growth , so 3 weeks ago i took 2 cups of very moist Alfalfa pellets along with 2 heaping tablespoons of inoculant  and i put it in a coffee can with a lid and a couple holes in it, i see NO GROWTH YET.so my question is how do you test this stuff when you buy it to know if it is alive or not ??         Regards       Patrick

Endomycorrhizal fungi are not visible to the naked eye, you need a microscope. Also the spores germinate in the presence of root exudates, no just one there own. They need to be in contact with living roots of a host species

Great answer!

If you want to "test" the beneficial fungi, plant parallel plants in pots, add Mycorrhizal to some and leave the rest alone. I have found Mycorrhizal top be  a big help in promoting root health. I would recommend looking at the counts on the back of the packaging to find out, how many species on fungi are in the product and at what ratio/ saturation/density. Some products cost less, but put more filler into their Mycorrhizal mix.
John

Mark in Texas

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Re: mycorrhizal inoculant
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2017, 09:34:47 AM »
....so my question is how do you test this stuff when you buy it to know if it is alive or not ??         Regards       Patrick

You don't.  It's a crap shoot, you're buying on blind faith and ads like with all organic products.  Having said that I have done what may be nothing more than a feel-good thing and drenched thousands of trees and grapevines on my farm with MycoApply Soluble Maxx which "they say" contains both endo, ecto, and beneficial bacteria.  Heck, good rainfall might contain all the microbes you need.

buddy roo

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Re: mycorrhizal inoculant
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2017, 11:52:47 AM »
Thanks for the feedback , this bag contained i type of fungi  ( Glomus intraradices ) @ 80 spores per gram i tried it in 2 raised beds i with green beans 1 with Strawberrys  i could see nu difference between the treated and untreated beds. at the end of season i also could not see any difference in the root systems or the condition of the soil , o well i enjoyed myself and my dreams while trying it.                                          Regards         Patrick

stuartdaly88

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Re: mycorrhizal inoculant
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2017, 02:33:41 PM »
Will good compost tea made with a bubbler compare at all to these types of products?
I've read that compost tea(&genetics obviously) are the secret behind giant veggie champions
Patience is bitter, but its fruit is sweet.
-Jean-Jacques Rousseau

fyliu

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Re: mycorrhizal inoculant
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2017, 03:07:57 PM »
Will good compost tea made with a bubbler compare at all to these types of products?
I've read that compost tea(&genetics obviously) are the secret behind giant veggie champions
Compost tea is raw material that's been broken down by bacteria. Let's face it, the bacteria will probably all die after the compost is used up. You need to apply it frequently to get the giant veggies.

Mycorrhizae are spores of fungi that can form symbiotic relationships with plant roots, which increases the plant's ability to gather raw materials from the soil. So you tend to apply it once when you plant the tree, and that's it.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2017, 03:18:45 PM by fyliu »

Seanny

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Re: mycorrhizal inoculant
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2017, 05:49:48 PM »
Bacteria break down compost. Bacteria don't play nice with fungi. Once you introduce compost into your soil, say bye bye to your fungi.

fyliu

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Re: mycorrhizal inoculant
« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2017, 06:20:58 PM »
Kind of true. Fungi secrete substances that inhibit and kill bacteria. Scientists analyze the substances, find ways to synthesize them, and patent them. Companies make lots of money selling antibiotics.

figtreeaz

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Re: mycorrhizal inoculant
« Reply #9 on: September 20, 2017, 07:15:27 PM »
Regarding bacteria and fungi in the soil, they play off one another.

Most species of terrestrial plants have very "leaky" roots, and in some instances secrete up to 40% of the total photosynthate during the plants lifetime, in the form of various carbohydrates.

When a seed is germinating and growing in soil it begins excreting carbohydrates into the soil, usually simpler sacharides. As this occurs, the bacterial population in the rhizosphere rapidly increases. The bacteria in turn "mine" other inorganic nutrients in the soil so that they can grow and reproduce using the carbon sugar source.

As plant growth continues, many plants will start synthesizing and excreting lipids and fatty acids like mono-acyl gylercerols. When the plant begins excreting these through the roots, the bacteria population begins to die off. Bacteria do not have the proper metabolic pathways to digest fatty molecules.

When this occurs the fungal population begins to grow rapidly, since they can metabolize lipids. Simultaneously, the inorganic nutrients "mined" by the dead bacteria are now in a biologically active form.

As the mycorrhizal fungi continue to grow they exchange nutrients and moisture for food. A lot of the research suggests these fungi are really good at scavenging phosphorus, and are inhibited by high concentrations of it.

So basically fungi and bacteria are all present in healthy situations, and it is not as simple as they kill each other, they just fill a different niche.

If you want a good fungal population use a reputable mycorrhizal inoculant like mycoapply, don't add any extra phosphorus to your soil, don't till, and keep a good mulch layer on the soil

pineislander

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Re: mycorrhizal inoculant
« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2017, 07:41:05 PM »
I don't think we should look at soil organisms like we do fertilizers. They aren't something we can just add and walk away from, they depend on the environment and so many other interactions. Better to look at them like yeast making when you want to make bread or wine, or reintroducing the wolf to an area where it hasn't been present for a while. Sure if you are starting with sterile soil mix adding some organisms might be beneficial but there are so many variables that good experiments would be hard to design. The cannabis people drive a lot of this, they can throw money at 'pot' plants like crazy. Know the elements of a good soil, keep a good mix of conditions which make it stay living, do little of what is known to decrease soil life and hope for the best.

stuartdaly88

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Re: mycorrhizal inoculant
« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2017, 01:20:20 AM »
I have found that if I let good soil completly dry in a pot it becomes crap, even if I wet it again its just not as good as it was. This is purely subjective though perhaps its all in my mind?
Patience is bitter, but its fruit is sweet.
-Jean-Jacques Rousseau

lebmung

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Re: mycorrhizal inoculant
« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2017, 04:22:34 AM »
Yes black pots exposed to sun during a hot summer will kill many microorganisms. If the temperature outside is 35C, a small pot will have 50-60C in direct sun. It is actually better for the substrate to be dry rather than wet. A good strategy would be to reinoculate the small and medium pot before the winter.
A cheap method to increase the spore count is to grow containers with grass in the spring and inoculate them. Grass is easily colonizied, and by the autumn will will have many spores attached. Just simply take out the roots, chop them and mix them with the soil in the pots.

Mark in Texas

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Re: mycorrhizal inoculant
« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2017, 09:46:15 AM »
The cannabis people drive a lot of this, they can throw money at 'pot' plants like crazy.

Cannabis growers are the biggest suckers for rocket fuels and yes, they bring every shyster out of the woodwork known to man quick to fork over the money to anyone claiming "bigger yields".

You do have to nurture your soil helpers.  My veggie garden hasn't had compost in about 3 years and I can tell it in the marginal production and health of what's left. 

stuartdaly88

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Re: mycorrhizal inoculant
« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2017, 01:57:36 PM »
The cannabis people drive a lot of this, they can throw money at 'pot' plants like crazy.

Cannabis growers are the biggest suckers for rocket fuels and yes, they bring every shyster out of the woodwork known to man quick to fork over the money to anyone claiming "bigger yields".

You do have to nurture your soil helpers.  My veggie garden hasn't had compost in about 3 years and I can tell it in the marginal production and health of what's left.
But you have to admit cannabis growers have also furthered knowledge considerably! It's there money that has fueled businesses to make amazing lowlights and brought hydroponics into the mainstream among other things. Also lots of interesting experiments on hormones etc you can see from them online.

Yeah that industry does have many of the new breed of snake oil salesman though!
Patience is bitter, but its fruit is sweet.
-Jean-Jacques Rousseau

Mark in Texas

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Re: mycorrhizal inoculant
« Reply #15 on: September 23, 2017, 10:27:48 AM »
Yeah that industry does have many of the new breed of snake oil salesman though!

First being Advanced Nutrients company, Big John,  ;D  then hundreds took note and soon got on the band wagon as if the weed is one of those special needs types.

"A fool and his money are soon departed".

 

Mark in Texas

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Re: mycorrhizal inoculant
« Reply #16 on: September 23, 2017, 10:30:43 AM »
so 3 weeks ago i took 2 cups of very moist Alfalfa pellets along with 2 heaping tablespoons of inoculant  and i put it in a coffee can with a lid and a couple holes in it, i see NO GROWTH YET.so my question is how do you test this stuff when you buy it to know if it is alive or not ??         Regards       Patrick

I have added alfalfa slurry to my home made soil mix many a time.  Supposedly contains beneficial hormone called triacontanol.  I buy horse nuggets aka cubes, drop a bunch in a big bucket, add enough water to cover well and when it turns to mush (usually taking a day) I add it to a huge pile on my concrete floor then mix and load with my tractor's bucket.