Dwarf(ed) nutmeg?

[KarenRei]

Does anyone know if there's any dwarf nutmeg cultivars, or if it's possible to dwarf?  A 20m tree would be a weeeee bit much nutmeg    I've not found mention of any M. fragrans cultivars everywhere.  That said, Myristica is a huge genus, leading to no shortage of grafting possibilities - M. pygmea, for example, only reaches 20cm tall.  Or contrarily, are there any other Myristicas worth cultivating on their own that aren't giants?

[fruitlovers]

No dwarfs that i know of. But they can be airlayered and that would make the plant start bearing while still very short and dwarf it to some extent. Getting that material would be extremely difficult though.

[KarenRei]

No dwarfs that i know of. But they can be airlayered and that would make the plant start bearing while still very short and dwarf it to some extent. Getting that material would be extremely difficult though.

The budget being looked at for the facility is significant, to the point of considering the import of whole sizeable trees where available. I'll put this down as a "maybe" to discuss (in the last meeting there was a big push for spice trees, so this obviously comes up as a possibility to research).  Obviously most of the things on the list won't make it in; right now it's about assembling the possibilities, in order to figure out how to prioritize what goes where.  Thanks 

[fruitlovers]

No dwarfs that i know of. But they can be airlayered and that would make the plant start bearing while still very short and dwarf it to some extent. Getting that material would be extremely difficult though.

The budget being looked at for the facility is significant, to the point of considering the import of whole sizeable trees where available. I'll put this down as a "maybe" to discuss (in the last meeting there was a big push for spice trees, so this obviously comes up as a possibility to research).  Obviously most of the things on the list won't make it in; right now it's about assembling the possibilities, in order to figure out how to prioritize what goes where.  Thanks 

Very large budget is not going to help you much, unless they are willing to fly you somewhere to dig out the trees yourself and charter a plane to return them. Even getting viable nutmeg seeds is very hard. You will see what i mean if you try to get some. Sorry to be the spoiler on all of your ideas. I am all for pushing the limits. But i think this really goes beyond the usual "pushing the limits". But i would love it if you proved me wrong. If you can do it i would travel to Iceland to witness your miracle..

[HIfarm]

One thing that hasn't been addressed is that nutmeg is dioecious so you will need to plant at least a few trees if you ever want to see fruit.  It might make sense to shift your sights to "calabash nutmeg", Monodora myristica.  It can get as larger or perhaps larger than nutmeg but it is not dioecious and has very showy flowers.  There are other Monodoras besides myristica and I think some of those are also used as spices.  I understand that the seeds for these can be difficult to germinate (or perhaps it is more a question of getting fresh seeds).  ForestHouse had a few different species on their list in the past.

John

[KarenRei]

One thing that hasn't been addressed is that nutmeg is dioecious so you will need to plant at least a few trees if you ever want to see fruit.  It might make sense to shift your sights to "calabash nutmeg", Monodora myristica.  It can get as larger or perhaps larger than nutmeg but it is not dioecious and has very showy flowers.  There are other Monodoras besides myristica and I think some of those are also used as spices.  I understand that the seeds for these can be difficult to germinate (or perhaps it is more a question of getting fresh seeds).  ForestHouse had a few different species on their list in the past.

John

Thanks for that, John!  (only just started building up the "dioecious" column in the candidate plants' spreadsheet; a lot of them I know from memory, but the majority of the column is still blank). I'll definitely raise it as an alternative. What gorgeous flowers!   A medicinal plant, too. Do you have any experience with the taste or with cultivation? Interesting that it's an annonaceae whose seeds you're *supposed* to eat    Sounds like you get a little taste of annonaceaous flesh while cleaning the seeds, too    Annonaceae are usually pretty easy to raise, too - I have experience with them, unlike myristicaea.

[HIfarm]

It is amazing how often articles about plants fail to mention their sexual "states", it can be hard to get a straight story sometimes.  It seems whenever you discuss a plant that is clearly documented as dioecious, someone will chime in about knowing of a single plant somewhere that is bearing fruit.  I don't have the luck to get one of these "fluke" plants, I always plan on planting a few if documented as dioecious.

I've never tried calabash nutmeg (to my knowledge), I know it is used in some African and Caribbean cuisines.  I tried to start it from seeds several years back with no luck, however the seeds may also not have been very fresh.  I do have a couple of seedlings in the orchard that I got locally.  They have been growing slowly but steadily; they might be reaching the point where they will start to speed up. 

I know we are getting further off the topic here (nutmeg) but there is another annonaceous plant where the seed is eaten as a spice (although I think the spice is the pod as much as the seed) -- Xylopia aethiopica.  It is also an African spice.  I don't know if that one would be of interest to you.

John

[druss]

This twigged a memory, had to chase a facebook post from 2012. India has dwarf selections.
This is one:

http://www.spices.res.in/success/viswasree.php

[KarenRei]

Wow, what a find - adding that to the notes!